DCB w/ Twin OB's

[Blacksheep]

I have been doing alot of searching on the boards on DCB and Ultra trying to find anything and everything to help me make a decision.
I'd like to hear anyone's opinion/experience with 26' DCB with twin Merc 2.5s or 300X's. Perfermance (Top speed, acceleration, ride, etc) and what kind of insurance rates one can expect with a 26' cat with twin outboards?
I'll be out in San Diego in Jan and plan on visiting DCB and Ultra, but I'd like to here from any of the "customers" who either own one with the outboards, or have riden in one. I'm deciding between the Ultra 27 Shadow and 26' DCB and of course OB's versus I/O.
All but 1 boat I have owned have been OB's so it's just another decision on top of what manufacturer. The 27 Shadow would probably be powered by the MV-10 Viper engine and the DCB likely twin 300X's. I'm more interested in acceleration vs top end.
Any comments on the performance and insurance would be much appreciated.

[RandyH]

Those two boats are pretty different to compare. But both companies are top notch. I did business with Ultra long distance and couldn't be happier. Good Luck,
RandyH

[mbrown2]

I tried to answer your question in the sandbar section...

[HavasuDreamin']

Couple of things to consider.....the 2.5's like to rev. and are better performers on light boats. The 300X's are more torque oriented which is better for heavier loads like a 26' tunnel with full interior.
On the I/O, you will go through drives with anything more than stock HP unless you go #6 or Wiseman. It is not a question of if, but when. Factor that into your purchase.
Also, if you opt for a V-10, the aftermarket performance products will be significantly more limited. Make sure the stock V-10 is enough for you.
Good Luck.

[Blacksheep]

Looks like after some info I got from John West...I think we are going with the Ultra. The V-10 sounds like it will provide the punch.
Looking forward to seeing visiting John and Ultra in Jan!! :)

[Bella]

There is a 26' DCB on sllekcrafts website www.sleekcraft.com in there used inventory.

[andy01]

That v-10 makes a ton of torque. I spoke with a boat manuf. that ran two boats side by side one with v-10's and one with 525's. They said the v-10 with 550hp out ran the other boat by about 7 boat links. Huge difference in acceleration. Both 35' Vees. If you do the Ultra with the v-10 I think you will be very happy, it's a big cat.
Andy

[Havasu Cig]

I have owned both. The 26 with the O/B's was more fun IMO, but had reliability problems with the 2.5's. The boats feel nothing like one another. The O/B boat gets a nice aired out light feeling while the I/O feels more stuck to the water.
With the I/O though you can always go faster by adding more hp. With the O/B's it is a little tougher. If you can live with speeds in the 95-110 area the O/B's would prbably work well for you. Another down side to the O/B's is they are really affected by weight. My boat went from a 106 mph boat to a 95 mph boat when you loaded it down.
With the V-10 you should be ok with an XR as long as you don't hammer it. I ran about 800 hp through mine and did not have a problem. The weight of the boat is not to significant so the drives seem to be able to handle more.

[mbrown2]

I have owned both. The 26 with the O/B's was more fun IMO, but had reliability problems with the 2.5's. The boats feel nothing like one another. The O/B boat gets a nice aired out light feeling while the I/O feels more stuck to the water.
With the I/O though you can always go faster by adding more hp. With the O/B's it is a little tougher. If you can live with speeds in the 95-110 area the O/B's would prbably work well for you. Another down side to the O/B's is they are really affected by weight. My boat went from a 106 mph boat to a 95 mph boat when you loaded it down.
With the V-10 you should be ok with an XR as long as you don't hammer it. I ran about 800 hp through mine and did not have a problem. The weight of the boat is not to significant so the drives seem to be able to handle more.
Good assessment...that is exactly my feelings between the two.

[needforspeed]

Bottom line is that the Ultra, being a heavier boat and with only 550hp is barely going to crack 80mph, while the DCB with OB's will go 100 plus. You'll need about 850 hp to push the Ultra to that speed and then the drive problems will start. Off course this all assumes you want to go 100 mph. As for the OB's go with 300X's, they are more friendly the 2.5's.

[Kilrtoy]

What what it the top speed a DCB with twin 300's with a closed bow is seeing

[voodoomedman]

Bottom line is that the Ultra, being a heavier boat and with only 550hp is barely going to crack 80mph, while the DCB with OB's will go 100 plus. You'll need about 850 hp to push the Ultra to that speed and then the drive problems will start. Off course this all assumes you want to go 100 mph. As for the OB's go with 300X's, they are more friendly the 2.5's.
somehow 550 hp only cracking 80 in an ultra 27 shadow doesn't add up mr 1 post. Oh wait John says all Ultra's only go 67 mph. He keeps them that way for his customers insurance purposes.

[voodoomedman]

Looks like after some info I got from John West...I think we are going with the Ultra. The V-10 sounds like it will provide the punch.
Looking forward to seeing visiting John and Ultra in Jan!! :)
Your going to love your boat and love working with John. When guy calls you to tell you your boat is scheduled for production you will be on cloud nine the rest of the day. If for some crazy reason you have any issues John will make sure you are taken care of and happy.

[andy01]

Bottom line is that the Ultra, being a heavier boat and with only 550hp is barely going to crack 80mph, while the DCB with OB's will go 100 plus. You'll need about 850 hp to push the Ultra to that speed and then the drive problems will start. Off course this all assumes you want to go 100 mph. As for the OB's go with 300X's, they are more friendly the 2.5's.
I drove a Shadow with 470hp (500hp) and it went 84. So I would think 80 with 550 would be a little slow, and it was an open bow. That v-10 makes a lot more torque then a pair of 300's. And I believe the person buying the boat was looking for ACCELERATION. Top speed, well a Mach 26 with 300's I believe runs right at 110 or a little less or more. That v-10 also comes with a SC drive. I would like to see one of these 25-27' cats have that package. I think it would be a pretty good running set up. Hell you could super charge it after that and really have a drive destroyer on your hands.
Andy

[needforspeed]

Don't misunderstand me, I have no problems with Ultra's, they look real nice, and the V-10 is an intriquing package. My comments come form my experience. I have had a 750 hp Daytona 25 and the best I got out of it was 99.9 on the GPS. I had a 26 Daytona with a 630 hp and it was suppose to run 84-86 but I sold it before it even got up to that speed. 83 mph bored me. My understanding is the Ultra is heavy boat, and based on the tests I have read, I would think its only in the low 80's. The biggest bummer is to pay top dollar, and not have your expectations met. Not that John, or Dave would do that, but blacksheep needs to figure out what he wants, space, style, speed, budget, realibility. You got to do you homework.

[voodoomedman]

Don't misunderstand me, I have no problems with Ultra's, they look real nice, and the V-10 is an intriquing package. My comments come form my experience. I have had a 750 hp Daytona 25 and the best I got out of it was 99.9 on the GPS. I had a 26 Daytona with a 630 hp and it was suppose to run 84-86 but I sold it before it even got up to that speed. 83 mph bored me. My understanding is the Ultra is heavy boat, and based on the tests I have read, I would think its only in the low 80's. The biggest bummer is to pay top dollar, and not have your expectations met. Not that John, or Dave would do that, but blacksheep needs to figure out what he wants, space, style, speed, budget, realibility. You got to do you homework.
Eliminator's and Ultra's are different animals. If anything John will tell you it is going to run slower than he thinks and then if you get faster you are happy. He wouldn't tell you fast and then it's slow cuz then you'd be pissed. I know peeps with a 25 Eagle XP with a 496 Mag HO. I've got a 24 Stealth with a 496 Mag. No HO means 50 HP less and while we haven't done a race to see who wins I have not been outrun at full throttle and mine is on plane a lot quicker. I'll take my Ultra anyday.

[mbrown2]

Eliminator's and Ultra's are different animals.
No disrepect to Ultra, but I think a Daytona 25 power for power is faster than a 27 Ultra Shadow; in fact one of the fastest 25 Cat's out there with power for power compared to other hulls in its class...I love everything John does, but the 25 Daytona is a pretty fast hull...

[voodoomedman]

No disrepect to Ultra, but I think a Daytona 25 power for power is faster than a 27 Ultra Shadow; in fact one of the fastest 25 Cat's out there with power for power compared to other hulls in its class...I love everything John does, but the 25 Daytona is a pretty fast hull...
No probs. Your just voicing your opinion but look at what you just said. a 25 footer is faster than a 27. I mean take a corvette engine and put it in a miata. The dang miata is going to be faaaaast. Don't get me wrong either, Eliminator builds a quality boat but I personally think they have lost sight of the individual customer in lieu of the bottom line. They have come up with some great boats but I don't see a lot of progression as of late. And to me little things make a huge difference. Like even the light pole hole cover thingy being billet on my boat but on the Eagle's then it is just a plastic thingy. And if I wrote Daytona in my earlier post I meant Eagle. I will correct it. I just realized. I'm a dummy. Apples to apples. I've got a V and I know someone with a V.

[Blacksheep]

All great information. Racingrascal was right. The acceleration is what I was looking for in a reliable package, not really after all out top end and the styling of the 27 Shadow doesn't hurt either :D
Been talking with the engineers at Ilmor Engineering who sell the MV-10. It really is an impressive package even though it is expensive. It's 400 pounds lighter than the HP525 weighing in at 800 pounds. And the torque band is incredible. Take it with a grain of salt, but apparently for every gallon a big block uses, the MV-10 uses .6 so that's 40% less fuel. They have been seeing some amazing numbers for fuel consumption on these engines which is one of their selling points. Their will also be a poker run version coming out with 625 HP.
John @ Ultra had extremely good things to say about this motor. To put it lightly he has been amazed with this package. He installed one in a 28 Stealth that is currently for sale. He seems to think the MV-10 in a 27 Shadow will make a very nice setup.
Again, thanks to everyone putting their .02 in. It's nice to get everyone's first hand experience.
Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays!!!

[andy01]

All great information. Racingrascal was right. The acceleration is what I was looking for in a reliable package, not really after all out top end and the styling of the 27 Shadow doesn't hurt either :D
Been talking with the engineers at Ilmor Engineering who sell the MV-10. It really is an impressive package even though it is expensive. It's 400 pounds lighter than the HP525 weighing in at 800 pounds. And the torque band is incredible. Take it with a grain of salt, but apparently for every gallon a big block uses, the MV-10 uses .6 so that's 40% less fuel. They have been seeing some amazing numbers for fuel consumption on these engines which is one of their selling points. Their will also be a poker run version coming out with 625 HP.
John @ Ultra had extremely good things to say about this motor. To put it lightly he has been amazed with this package. He installed one in a 28 Stealth that is currently for sale. He seems to think the MV-10 in a 27 Shadow will make a very nice setup.
Again, thanks to everyone putting their .02 in. It's nice to get everyone's first hand experience.
Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays!!!
What kind of price are they qouting you on the V-10? Keep us posted on your build.
Andy

[TOBTEK]

What kind of price are they qouting you on the V-10? Keep us posted on your build.
Andy
I'm sure I know what Andy is thinking here.......and so was I. For im sure LESS money then the V-10 package, you could call Gary Teague (NOT BOB) at GT Marine and get one of his 540efi(640'ish HP) packages for mid 30K with everything you need....plug and play! and its shinny :D

[Dave C]

I agree with this. When I was "shopping" around, the Ultra guys struck me as honest, stand up guys (kind of "rare" in the boat business). You can't go wrong doing business with them. Top notch and very creative paint jobs too.
I bought the 25 Daytona instead of an Ultra but I was impressed with the Ultra paint jobs. Chose the daytona mainly for the performance. So far we have been very happy with the performance we got out of the new 25 Daytona due to the efficiency of the hull.
Dave
If anything John will tell you it is going to run slower than he thinks and then if you get faster you are happy. He wouldn't tell you fast and then it's slow cuz then you'd be pissed. .

[Dave C]

acceleration, you say, .. then buy the V10 :D then post pictures for us!.
Sorry I have to mention this but fuel efficiency should be the last thing on a boat buyers mind. Its great PR for Ilmor but if we wanted good fuel efficiency we would buy a Hybrid car instead of a boat. ;) ;)
The acceleration is what I was looking for in a reliable package, not really after all out top end and the styling of the 27 Shadow doesn't hurt either :D
Been talking with the engineers at Ilmor Engineering who sell the MV-10. It really is an impressive package even though it is expensive. It's 400 pounds lighter than the HP525 weighing in at 800 pounds. And the torque band is incredible. Take it with a grain of salt, but apparently for every gallon a big block uses, the MV-10 uses .6 so that's 40% less fuel. They have been seeing some amazing numbers for fuel consumption on these engines which is one of their selling points. !!

[mbrown2]

Blacksheep, before you ink any deal, I would go drive the boats you are interested in with similar power that you are interested in.
I had a 2002 Mach 26' Cat with 600 Horses and very good acceleration due to the whipple, but I was looking to upgrade power within a year...90 and great accelleration was just not fast enough...So I contemplated upgrading engines and then worried about drive issues...so I went OB...If 80-90 is really going to keep you happy, then should not worry, but 8-10 cat owners I run across are upgrading/replacing engines within 2 years (specifically if they are not running over triple digits), and with that V10 are there many options for making it faster?

[andy01]

They do look nice.............
http://www.ilmor.com/marine/images/MV10S_left.jpg
But then again...........
So do Gary's.............
http://www.gtmarine.com/engines/eng_01.jpg
Andy

[Charley]

Blacksheep, before you ink any deal, I would go drive the boats you are interested in with similar power that you are interested in.
I had a 2002 Mach 26' Cat with 600 Horses and very good acceleration due to the whipple, but I was looking to upgrade power within a year...90 and great accelleration was just not fast enough...So I contemplated upgrading engines and then worried about drive issues...so I went OB...If 80-90 is really going to keep you happy, then should not worry, but 8-10 cat owners I run across are upgrading/replacing engines within 2 years (specifically if they are not running over triple digits), and with that V10 are there many options for making it faster?
No kidding I had a whopping 10 hrs on my Mach26 with a teague 620 before I justified a blower motor :rolleyes: Im such a dumbass!

[andy01]

I'm sure I know what Andy is thinking here.......and so was I. For im sure LESS money then the V-10 package, you could call Gary Teague (NOT BOB) at GT Marine and get one of his 540efi(640'ish HP) packages for mid 30K with everything you need....plug and play! and its shinny :D
Well in a round about way I was thinking that to myself. Charley and MBrown are right. And they have both had two DCB's. You might be real happy with your v-10 for a half a season or atleast four trips but then you are going to want to go faster and faster. I had a DCB with a Teague 740 it was fast enough for the begining of the first season I had it. Then I was looking at going bigger, the problem is going bigger after the fact is you might as well build another boat. Unless you build a little jet boat, then you can throw motors at it all day long. But once you get into the mid size cats and you need to look in to new drive/s and motor/s you start looking at a huge amount of money to rebuild or add to that v-10. I am sure there are some people out there that are happy with 80 - 90mph but not many that don't wish they could cross that 100 mark. Just make sure you buy the drive for the hp you will have or add, if you buy the v-10 and it comes with a sc drive plan on leaving it stock. If you do anything to that v-10 (supercharger/blower/whipple) what ever it may be it will put it up over 700-800 hp. And that Shadow is a heavy boat, so now you are breaking drives. Decide what you really want, drive it, buy it and leave it alone. I know if I was building another Mach 26 I would do it with a GT 1,200hp and #6.
That's just my .02
Andy

[needforspeed]

Everyone always loves the boat they own. But just to further validate my earlier comment: Hot Boat tested a Shadow bowrider in fall of '03 and reported at top speed of 70 mph with a 496 HO (470 hp), so I think my forcast of just breaking 80 mph with the v-10 (550 hp with more torque) on a non bow rider as accurate!

[Kilrtoy]

hey if you are happy, We are happy for you, that is all that matters

[Charley]

hey if you are happy, We are happy for you, that is all that matters
Miguel.... we are all happy for him ..... we are just saying there is the " morespeed" bug that tends to occur ;)

[Kilrtoy]

Miguel.... we are all happy for him ..... we are just saying there is the " morespeed" bug that tends to occur ;)
I know charley, but it seems as if he is already sold on the V10 and now trying to justify it.... That is why i wrote that.....
I was watching your boat on a video last night and it wasnt pegged :supp:

[Charley]

I know charley, but it seems as if he is already sold on the V10 and now trying to justify it.... That is why i wrote that.....
I was watching your boat on a video last night and it wasnt pegged :supp:
hmmmmm do tell.....
Btw I think the point is the upgrades you can do to a V-10 will be very limited

[Kilrtoy]

Not yet..............................

[DCB/X2]

I Have A Dcb 22 With 2-2.5 Stock Drags--do Not Short The Money When It Comes To Props--they Will Your Dcb Come Alive--two Sets One For The Boys And One For The Family--do Not Let Any One Tell You One Prop Does It All--some Do Good But If You Want Great, Have Two!! You Will Love The Ride!!

[Reaper1]

Everyone always loves the boat they own. But just to further validate my earlier comment: Hot Boat tested a Shadow bowrider in fall of '03 and reported at top speed of 70 mph with a 496 HO (470 hp), so I think my forcast of just breaking 80 mph with the v-10 (550 hp with more torque) on a non bow rider as accurate!
496HO = 425hp
HP500 = 470hp ;)

[ULTRA28]

I'm building a 27 Shadow with a Viper for stock right now. I hope to have it tested before the LA show. Either way the boat will be at the show.
Our 27 does 70 to 75 with an HO (425hp), 78 to 84 with an HP500 (470 hp), 80 to 86 with a 525 (490 hp). I would hope it would do better than low 80s with the Viper 550 hp. Our 28 Stealth is seeing 77 at 5500 rpm with the Viper, we are still dialing it in. I hope to see low 80s with it when done. The Viper is good to 6500 rpm.

[phebus]

I'm building a 27 Shadow with a Viper for stock right now. I hope to have it tested before the LA show. Either way the boat will be at the show.
Our 27 does 70 to 75 with an HO (425hp), 78 to 84 with an HP500 (470 hp), 80 to 86 with a 525 (490 hp). I would hope it would do better than low 80s with the Viper 550 hp. Our 28 Stealth is seeing 77 at 5500 rpm with the Viper, we are still dialing it in. I hope to see low 80s with it when done. The Viper is good to 6500 rpm.
Wow, that's good speed with a 496HO. Was that solo driver, empty boat, minimal fuel? Efficient bottom, trimmed up nice.

[ULTRA28]

Wow, that's good speed with a 496HO. Was that solo driver, empty boat, minimal fuel? Efficient bottom, trimmed up nice.
Normal boat under normal conditions with normal load, nothing special at all.

[Kilrtoy]

I'm building a 27 Shadow with a Viper for stock right now. I hope to have it tested before the LA show. Either way the boat will be at the show.
Our 27 does 70 to 75 with an HO (425hp), 78 to 84 with an HP500 (470 hp), 80 to 86 with a 525 (490 hp). I would hope it would do better than low 80s with the Viper 550 hp. Our 28 Stealth is seeing 77 at 5500 rpm with the Viper, we are still dialing it in. I hope to see low 80s with it when done. The Viper is good to 6500 rpm.
Those are some damn good speeds :cool:
I imagine with all the torque that the viper motor puts out, it will get to that speed rather quickly

[voodoomedman]

Wow, that's good speed with a 496HO. Was that solo driver, empty boat, minimal fuel? Efficient bottom, trimmed up nice.
I can attest to my boat doing speeds at or better than what John told me it would do. And yes that's trimmed up nice and efficient bottom but That's six peeps in boat. Loaded with gear and 80 expensive a$$ gallons of fuel.

[Goodtime$]

The V10s sound pretty killer, i know Eliminator has had success with them.
The 27shadow and a V10 sounds like a fun combo, drive both boats and decide on whackers or mopar.
id chose the V10 so you can rock those killer Mopar Ram stickers..Like Rams eat fords for lunch or some shit...it looks killer.... MoPower.

[Kilrtoy]

The V10s sound pretty killer, i know Eliminator has had success with them.
The 27shadow and a V10 sounds like a fun combo, drive both boats and decide on whackers or mopar.
id chose the V10 so you can rock those killer Mopar Ram stickers..Like Rams eat fords for lunch or some shit...it looks killer.... MoPower.
Wait til next year, Ford will be back on top...... AGAIN

[voodoomedman]

Wait til next year, Ford will be back on top...... AGAIN
let me go get some popcorn for this one. :D