? for shockwaveharry and LVjetboy

[fryzll]

I just wanted to know how you guys like or liked (I know you sold yours harry) your Placecraft tunnels. Im gonna get rid of my boat next year and start another project. Its gonna be a tunnel hull but I dont want a Daytona coause cats arent my thing (no jokes please). I have a freind with a Placecraft Dragstar tunnel and another with a Southwind Drag tunnel (both are 110 mph boats on radar) but I dont want a drag tunnel, just a standard like you guys. Im looking for a speed of around 80mph w/ a B/B Ford (I know, but im a Ford guy). I just wanted to know if you guys are happy with the hull. The one thing with both Drag tunnels is they really porpois (sp) at lower speeds, I didnt know if the standard tunnel act the same or not. Any info from anyone would be appreciated.

[LVjetboy]

Yep, mine tends to porpose at low speeds (30-40)...somewhat able to dampen with the PD but not totally. Possibly a setup or hull design issue...not sure that could be "cured" without sacrificing top speed. Not much room inside, and the tunnels keep the seats a little higher than I'd like. Certainly not a family boat or the best for camping. Freeboard, what freeboard? When waves kick up it's time to head for the cove and shut her down. In a turn tends to do the tunnel slip-hook-shuffle, some of which can be controlled with trim, but not really comfortable to me. Definitely a straight line runner.
So what do I think? Weeeelll. I absolutely love mine! Add hp and this hull moves. Trimed out and you get that floaty feeling. With a mild 454, I'm only turning a Berkeley B at 5k (on the engine) and that's good for 73 mph in lake trim...and about 75 mph with just driver/light load. This is just your basic 454 with low (9.5:1) compression and timing. Not bad for 340 hp on a jet? So I think your goal of 80 mph with a well-built Ford is certainly attainable. Shoot for 425 hp and you're in there. On the bottle (conservative jets) I get 82@5400 lake trim and 84 with just driver. The hp/mph curve shows very little drop-off at this speed, so the tunnel is just beginning to strut it's stuff. The hull is strong...can take just about any hp you can throw at it...as top fuelers have found. Finally, I've always liked a pointed bow on a tunnel, with an upsloped deck instead of a flat deck, but that's just my personal opinion.
jer

[MikeC]

fryzll,
I'm not so sure a Tunnel would work for you. Like Jer said, they have there funky habits, but most notibly, they like HP! I would not recommend one just to putt around the like in. A v-bottom would be more fun! Especially if your going to pop in a BBF. Don't waist your time with a tunnel boat/Ford combo. Your going to want to turn a minimum 5200 rmp's, and believe me once you feel that air under the boat, you'll no doubt want more and more! I am very happy with mine.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1514433&a=11442676&p=53343595&f=0
Good Luck
MikeC

[fryzll]

Hey guys, thanks for the input. My current boat is a 77 Challenger 18.5 w/ a 460 and Jacuzzi and the best speed is 67 on the GPS empty. I havnt driven my buddys PlaceCraft but I have been a co-pilot alot and that boat rides way better than mine in light chop. The wierd turning deal must be inherrant to the standard tunnel because his Drag tunnel turns great, no wierd skip hook deal. The tunnels on his are bigger than the standard ones because (im guessing here) its a old top fuel boat and they get more air with a 2500 h/p motor. He baught the hull less motor and rigging and switched to left hand steering. He is running a BBC around 512 inches w/ Dart Pro 1 heads,13.5:1, 2 1050's on a tunnel ram and alot of other goodies. He is making around 830 h/p on the motor and hes running a 250 h/p shot of nitros. He was radared at 109.9. The boat is nice but I dont need that kind of speed (I can ride in his if I want) for what I want to do. My main concern is the ride and the style of hull and I really like it. Hey MikeC, thanks for the input but Fords arent that bad http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif . Some friend of ours have a CP open bow running a 572 inch Ford that puts that boat at 106mph, not to shaby for a open bow. What kind of hull is yours Mike? The center rise on the bow doesnt have the same lines as my buddys Placecraft. Thanks again for the input guys, you both have really nice looking boats.
Chris
Chris

[wrightnow]

fryzll,
How about a CP 18' or 19'. They have more room than a placecraft, love HP and is not just a straight runnner.
No get me wrong I think placecraft is a great boats also just not alot of room.

[squirt]

Hey Jer, I think you might be low balling your Hp a little. I've been playing alot with the bbc 454 on my new DTD and just about all the combos. Yours is an LS6 I think you have said so you have rec. ports. You also have a tunnel ram with 1430 cfm and headers. At 9.5-1 comp. and not knowing your cam most profiles I come up with put you around 500 hp @ 5000 rpm. seems like alot until you consider factory hp rating on an LS6. Plus if you add on the silly gas and you know what they say (forgetaboutit). I'm trying to get to 500 hp on my motor upgrades so I've been looking. see ya Don

[squirt]

Hey Jer, I think you might be low balling your Hp a little. I've been playing alot with the bbc 454 on my new DTD and just about all the combos. Yours is an LS6 I think you have said so you have rec. ports. You also have a tunnel ram with 1430 cfm and headers. At 9.5-1 comp. and not knowing your cam most profiles I come up with put you around 500 hp @ 5000 rpm. seems like alot until you consider factory hp rating on an LS6. Plus if you add on the silly gas and you know what they say (forgetaboutit). I'm trying to get to 500 hp on my motor upgrades so I've been looking. see ya Don

[fryzll]

Hey wrightnow, I have thought about the CP but I just cant get get used to the gull wing look. I would like to take a ride in one in some rough water to see what it is like. I go low in the river (Fishers and Martinez) so I dont have to worry about big waves and such. I can build a pump gas 460 w/ about 600 h/p BUT, I dont want to. I just want a nice 75 to 80 mph cruiser that rides good in light chop. I have ridden in a 18 ft CP and it does the same thing as the PlaceCraft at lower speeds but it did not have a PlaceDiverter. I would like to take a ride in yours wrightnow if I can. Im not saying I dont like the hull, I just need some time in one to see if I like it. Thanks for the input.
Chris

[wrightnow]

fryzll,
My boat also porpose at low speeds which I believe is a by product of setting a boat to run loose on the big-end. But I install a PD, removed the droop and that has completely solved the problem. I like the 19' for of an all around boat (more room), the 19' are faster than an 18', but the 18' are quicker. I run BBC 30over mild cam, alum heads, tunnel ram 750dp and I'm in the mod to high 90's. Not to bad for a family boat that still user for wake boarding. I personal dont thing there is another low profile boat that can come close to the ride and handling of a CP. As for rides no problem, always my pleasure, just let me know when.
And once again I love my CP, but I think the placecraft has a style of it own and can't be beat for a low profile river boats.

[LVjetboy]

Back again...had to do that silly work thing.
fryzll,
My guess is your friend's drag hull, my PC and Mike's have the same bottom. My PC is a '91, which I ordered new from Ron Hamilton. At the time I believe he told me the hull bottoms were identical for lake or drag, just the deck cap different for single seat with capsule (extra high center profile similar to Mike's). I also remember asking Ron for a heavy lay-up and he said, "We only have one lay-up schedule" So PC lake boats are basically drag boats. Just not the same engine cojones http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif You can verify this by measuring you friend's tunnels...mine are 17 3/8" wide and 4 3/8" tall (measured on the outer sponson) In 92 I believe, they quit making the extended transom for pump mount, so Mike's transom (a '96 PC?) is straight across (Mike correct me if I'm wrong...your web site's still down) Other than this, I think the hull bottom is same.
About the slip-hook shuffle thing, that may just be my bad setup...not differences in hull design.
Copy the gull wing look. Although the gull wing looks way cool too, I prefer PC. But! My gut feeling is the CP is more efficient, because of the smooth transition for air entrapement, at least until you get to extreme speeds. This is just a feeling since I haven't experienced a CP and there's very little data out there. But I know there are some very fast CP's out there. And interior room may be a consideration.
Squirt,
My hp may be low ball, but that's what the Berkeley "B" cut charts give me. Although I haven't measured my impeller, it is marked on the invoice as a "B" so most likely is.
Now, the pump was blueprinted at build, so not sure if this matches stock clearances of Berkeley chart data or not. True, I do have twin 715's, but on the engine I'm only running primaries, so that's equivalent to one 715. Also I have a very conservative advance of 28, which is costing me hp I think. Unfortunately I don't know my cam...something I'm sure I'll find out come time for rebuild. But then I have very efficient air filters and headers...so the net result? Not really sure?? Probably less than 400 hp though. I would like to think more, but probably not.
The other thing to consider is that DTD may not be accurate in their curve model. But that's a whole 'nother thread http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
jer
[This message has been edited by LVjetboy (edited October 07, 2001).]

[shockwaveharry]

Sorry about the late reply Fryzll but I don't read the jet posts much anymore since my new boat has a prop out back. Man oh man do I miss my old Placecraft! http://www.***boat.net/class/7146938101a.jpg
Running a droop and PD I had a porpoise problem with mine too. I fooled with the cav plates one afternoon and completely eliminated the problem with a little down angle. I lost 2 mph on the top end but I could cruise around the River with the roost high! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/cool.gif
I think the PC is the coolest looking boat on the water! I sold it because it was just too small. I spent a lot of time on the big lakes this summer, places I never would have taken my PC, but when I'm in Blythe, I really miss it.

[fryzll]

Thanks harry, I just finished my boat so I will probably just hang on to it until I run across a nice tunnel that I cant live without. Im still thinking PlaceCraft or Southwind but the CP is really growing on too. I dont have kids and I go to the lower river so one of these will work just perfect for me. Famous last word huh?
Chris

[future boater]

shockwavharry,
that placecraft is nice i look at the ad for it atleast once a day...

[wrightnow]

fryzll,
Where do you go boating, you said lower river. Where is that?

[fryzll]

wrightnow, we had our trailer at Hidden Shores but next year they wont let us back on the park because its too old so we are going to be at either Fishers or Martinez. The nice thing about it is that I live in San Diego so i'm at the river in 2 1/2 hours http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif I wouldnt mind going up past Blyth but being I have been going down to Yuma for 20+ years all our friends have places down there. My ex's family had a house at Lost Lake but to tell you the truth I think the scenery where I go blows that part of the river away. Now they live in Havasu so I will probably make some trips up there next season. You should try to make a trip to Yuma next season, I think you would enjoy it.
Chris

[wrightnow]

fryzll,
Was that an invite for next season? If so I would like to see more of the river. I have been going to Big River for 10 years and only Big River. Time to open my horizen.

[fryzll]

wrightnow, you do have a invite but the only problem is I am trying to get a space for the trailer next season. We got booted out of the old park because they dont want any trailers over 10 yrs old. I know i can get a space but the question is where? Its either going to be Martinez, Fishers or Pruitt so I just have to wait. I will keep everybody posted.
Chris

[Kwicherbichen]

Fryzll, sorry to hear you are getting the boot from hidden shores.
If you are looking into Fishers, Martinez, or Pruit area talk to my wife's aunt. Her name is Kathy McKinney and she works at the bar/restaurant at Fishers. She knows everyone in the area and could probably point you in the right direction. Also, you can talk to her husband, Neil McKinney. He is the lead mechanic at the boat shop at Fishers. Go to Kathy first though, Neil can be kinda grumpy at times.
Wrightnow, the Yuma/Lake Martinez area is a great place to stretch out. I have been to almost every area of the river (Powell to Yuma) and as far as the shallow areas of the river are concerned I like Yuma best. When I first started going down there I was having a Havasu jonez(I missed the hard core partying). It's not as hard partying but the water conditions are awesome. Most weekends have ample SANDbars and most folks are real friendly. Of course it has lake lice like everywhere but most boats are like ours 18'-21' and not too many wake board boats.
BTW, did you get in contact with the guy that did your interior? I would really like him to do mine too.
Brian
[This message has been edited by Kwicherbichen (edited October 17, 2001).]

[Kwicherbichen]

????? No one ever came back to this thread.

[1quickjet]

I don't know a whole lot about those placecraft tunnels, but I got beat by one a few years ago on parker. If you guys happen to know anything about the 22' stepcat, aka deckboat, I would appreciate any input. Like the fact that they are offered in a jet. I have heard they are heavy, but I saw one on the trailer a while back, with a blown motor that consistently flirted with 100mph. That is impressive for any deckboat, especially a jet!

[fryzll]

Whoops! kinda forgot about this thread http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif Thanks for the tip Brian, I will try to get ahold of Kathy and Neil next time I head down there. Does Kathy bartend sometimes? That bar has really turned around. We go there instaed of Matinez just because its way nicer, not as crowded and the band is really good. I will let you know what happens.
1QJ, I the only thing I have heard about the PC deckboat is that they need a ton of power to make them run good #'s but I dont know how true that is. I think they are a good looking boat but if I were buying a deckboat it would be a Tom Papp style like GS Marines Edge, I think that is the best looking low profile deck boat around and I believe it uses the same hull (lower) as the 21 Daytona so you know that they are capable of really good #'s.
Chris

[pebo]

If yer lookin for a Southwind Dragster got a brother that's sellin one. BBC tunnel ram NOS.
Has'nt been in the water for 5 years. Needs a little TLC, but otherwise preaty sound boat.

[fryzll]

Hey pebo, if I do decide on a tunell I was going to look for a bare hull so I could rig it myself but I am open to options. If I found the right deal on a complete boat I wouldnt think twice. How much is he asking for it and is he in Apple Vallet too? Let me know please.
Chris

[Kwicherbichen]

How about this Tomm Papp "Mirage"
http://www.highperformanceboating.com/front2.jpg
Also you can go to http://www.tompappracing.com

[LVjetboy]

Personally, I think it's sacrilege for PC to make a Party Cat. What WERE they thinking??? Damn...that's like GM making a Corvette Minivan. Talk about a sell-out! They need some serious schooling on the value of roots. Along with HBM.
jer

[Kwicherbichen]

LVjetboy, I don't think you have seen this puppy up close or on the water. I wasn't ever considering a deck but, this "Mirage" is badass. It's basically a 22' daytona bottom with a low profile deck top. I saw one of these at Martinez a year ago. It had a blown 502 and nearly fooled me (I didn't think it was a deck) until I got right next to it. I am actually considering one of these and I thought I would never say that....Brian
BTW, I have some Vegas questions email me.
[This message has been edited by Kwicherbichen (edited October 22, 2001).]

[1quickjet]

Yea, I have seen a few of these at GS's shop. There was a few that were 100+ caliber. I dig the fact that the mirage above (Lostlake's I belive) is GS rigged.

[Kwicherbichen]

What does one of those "mirages" rigged by GS cost? (BBC & jet)

[pebo]

Fryzll: Saw the Southwind Drag tunnel today looks like it was just detailed. Has brand new interior and looked great. He's asking 6500.00 OBO for it. Looks like it need a shifter cable. If you're interested let me know and I'll give you his phone #. It's located at his shop in Glendora CA. Bye the way he said it did 103 MPH on radar ??

[fryzll]

Hey pebo, thanks for the info. If I get really serious about this I will let you know. The price sounds good, what pump does it have and what color is it? Does it have the HUGE Southwind set back on the transom for the pump? Thanks again.
Chris

[pebo]

Chris the Southwind is tan with brown and orange graphics. Ithas the HUGH set back built in to the hull with a Berk JG splitbowl pump. Also has the cavatation plates with a Place diverter.
let me know
Steve

[fryzll]

Hey pebo, where is Glendora? I went off mapquest.com and it listed somewhere by I-10 around El Monte. Is that right or wrong? I live in SanDiego and I drove to El Monte to buy my current boat so I was just wondering. This sounds like a good deal but as always its at the wrong time for me. I will see what I can come up w/ and let you know.
Chris

[pebo]

fryzll, boat is located on Carter Dr glendora. X streets Arrow Hwy/Grand Ave.
Carter is one block North of Arrow off of grand. If your ever in the area go by and check it out. Shop is Bob Edwards Tire Center.