Stuffing box

[flatnfast]

when my boat is in the water this box (see pic) just allows water to pour in, i have tried marine grease and it just keeps leaking, any tips on replacing? does the rudder have to come out? that would be a problem if it does, new to v-drives, switched from jet boats so all is new, any tips would be appreciated.

[Rexone]

It is possible only the seal is leaking which can be replaced.
However if the stuffing box and / or rudder shaft is significanty worn you will have to replace the worn parts in order to keep a seal in it. This can involve only the stuffing box or both the stuffing box and rudder if the rudder shaft is significanly worn.
You may not be able to find a rudder box with the same bolt pattern as the one in the boat. In that case you may have to plug and redrill some holes. It is also possible in some cases to re-bush the old stuffing box.
Yes the rudder has to come out regardless, even just to replace the seal. If it's just the seal you can do that without removing the box from the boat. You can basically determine if these parts are worn enough to warrant replacement by just wiggling the rudder in the boat.
Feel free to ask any questions you have.

[superdave013]

I've never seen a quardent above the support and bearing before.
Not sayin anythings wrong with that set up, just a new one to me.

[superdave013]

Oh, before you take it apart for the new seal. Have someone hold the wheel still. Then go back there and give the rudder a twist to see if there is slop in the key. Those quadrents wear too. Also try to move the rudder side to side (when it's not packed full of grease). That will give you an idea if the box or rudder are worn before you take it apart.
Hey, here's one. How many of you guys check out the top bearing from time to time? I mean when was the last time ya put some grease in it? I'm putting that stuff back together and stated looking at the bearing. (just tossed it in a bag when I took it apart) Well it's no longer a bearing at all. lol just a race but the balls seem to be gone.

[GofastRacer]

Hey, here's one. How many of you guys check out the top bearing from time to time? I mean when was the last time ya put some grease in it? I'm putting that stuff back together and stated looking at the bearing. (just tossed it in a bag when I took it apart) Well it's no longer a bearing at all. lol just a race but the balls seem to be gone.
Uhhh, I check my shit al the time!.. ;) :D

[GofastRacer]

does the rudder have to come out? that would be a problem if it does
No problem, just loosen the quadrant and take off any safety collars, drop the front of the trailer on the ground and it will come right out, you may have to move the boat over a bit to clear the guard on the trailer, reverse the procedure for assembly!..

[infotraker]

That box looks like the one I run in both the hydro and flat. I got a replacement from CP Performance in Ca. I lost the bearing in the top flange on rudder assembly in the flat once and the steering came apart (loose cable from shaft wobbling). Dont have that happen, check often !!!

[63stevens]

Looking at the stuffing box and rudder, I have one question. How far down does the keyway go into the stuffing box? If it extends any further down past the top of the stuffing box maybe the keyway is tearing up the seal.

[GofastRacer]

Looks like it's just above the stuffing box from the pic??, but I've seen that before and that will cause a major leak!...

[SPECTRABRENT]

Rexone,
Can you get a stainless rudder stuffing box?
Brent

[wsuwrhr]

Rexone,
Can you get a stainless rudder stuffing box?
Brent
Billy B had one, I think he got it from Bergeron.
Brian

[SPECTRABRENT]

Anyone know Bergeron's phone #?
Thanks.
Brent

[wsuwrhr]

Bergeron eng. (http://www.users.qwest.net/~bergeronaz2)
There you go.
Brian

[SPECTRABRENT]

I just ordered a stainless rudderbox.
Thanks,
Brent

[Fired Up]

This happened to me when I bought my Canyon a couple of years ago. Once the rudder is out there were 2 o-rings inside the box. Pulled them out without damaging the inside of the box using a dental probe. Wiped out the old grease and pushed in 2 new o-rings. Lubed them real well and slid the rudder back in. Remember to re-install your rudder to the correct height, measure before you remove it. Replace the upper bearing while you are at it if there is any rust, it can get neglected way up under the transom. When greasing the rudder box just give a little squirt until you feel slight resistance, don't force it with your grease gun or you'll blow grease all over again. It doesn't take much in there. Be sure your keystock doesn't hit the top of the box. And please put a hose clamp on it. Safety factor. The hardest part of the entire job was not the seal, but getting the rudder out. Had to lower the front of the trailer and lift the back of the boat because my trailer rides low. Good luck.

[Jetboatguru]

It is possible only the seal is leaking which can be replaced.
However if the stuffing box and / or rudder shaft is significanty worn you will have to replace the worn parts in order to keep a seal in it. This can involve only the stuffing box or both the stuffing box and rudder if the rudder shaft is significanly worn.
You may not be able to find a rudder box with the same bolt pattern as the one in the boat. In that case you may have to plug and redrill some holes. It is also possible in some cases to re-bush the old stuffing box.
Yes the rudder has to come out regardless, even just to replace the seal. If it's just the seal you can do that without removing the box from the boat. You can basically determine if these parts are worn enough to warrant replacement by just wiggling the rudder in the boat.
Feel free to ask any questions you have.
Have you ever seen so many "ifs" or "It is possible" or "You have to" or "You may have to" or You may not be able to" ? :wink: :wink:

[Rexone]

Have you ever seen so many... :wink: :wink:
Jone's in jail

[Rexone]

Rexone,
Can you get a stainless rudder stuffing box?
Brent
We can get them.
Thanks for answering for me Brian.

[wsuwrhr]

Thanks for answering for me Brian.
Ouch?
Didn't mean to step on your toes. I'll keep quiet next time.
Brian

[Rexone]

Ouch?
Didn't mean to step on your toes. I'll keep quiet next time.
Brian
Forums are all about information but when someone asks me a direct question I like to be the one answering that question regarding what I have and what I don't have, that's all. My answer would not have matched yours.
Something like Hey Brett I think Bergeron has em without the Rexone question quote just would have been more appropriate IMO.
The same would apply if someone asked "Hey wsusrhr do you have license plate frames?"
That would be like me quoting the guys question and saying "Hey Brett try Brand X Machine Shop in Corona, Billy got one there." I would just never do it as the question wasn't addressed to me, that's all.

[wsuwrhr]

Forums are all about information but when someone asks me a direct question I like to be the one answering that question regarding what I have and what I don't have, that's all. My answer would not have matched yours.
Something like Hey Brett I think Bergeron has em without the Rexone question quote just would have been more appropriate IMO.
The same would apply if someone asked "Hey wsusrhr do you have license plate frames?"
That would be like me quoting the guys question and saying "Hey Brett try Brand X Machine Shop in Corona, Billy got one there." I would just never do it as the question wasn't addressed to me, that's all.
Damn talk about a public lashing.
I appreciate your presence here.
I didn't say anything about it when it happened, but in the "American Made" thread I posted I didn't appreciate your insinuation that my products or material weren't "Made In America" I just felt you downplayed what I do.
It wasn't a case of tit-for-tat, but since you chose to light me up in public again, I just thought I would bring it up. :wink:
Sorry if I offended you or your company, but it wasn't my intention. I would like to ad that I personally know SpectraBrent.
As I have posted in the past, I shop at your company, and I pimp FOR your company if someone asks about products they need or I know you have. I specifically remember a stainless stuffer box that I modified that Billy bought.
I don't want you thinking I was stealing your business, because that wasn't my intention.
Post a link to YOUR stuffing box, and if my boat needs one, I will certainly buy it from you.
Brian

[Rexone]

Damn talk about a public lashing.
I appreciate your presence here.
I didn't say anything about it when it happened, but in the "American Made" thread I posted I didn't appreciate your insinuation that my products or material weren't "Made In America" I just felt you downplayed what I do.
It wasn't a case of tit-for-tat, but since you chose to light me up in public again, I just thought I would bring it up. :wink:
Sorry if I offended you or your company, but it wasn't my intention. I would like to ad that I personally know SpectraBrent.
As I have posted in the past, I shop at your company, and I pimp FOR your company if someone asks about products they need or I know you have. I specifically remember a stainless stuffer box that I modified that Billy bought.
I don't want you thinking I was stealing your business, because that wasn't my intention.
Post a link to YOUR stuffing box, and if my boat needs one, I will certainly buy it from you.
Brian
That's interesting Brian, here's my post on that thread...
First off I'm all for American Made...
but...
What is "really" all American made any more? Just because it says Made in USA on the label does not mean everything in that product came from the USA. It simply means the product itself was made in the USA (maybe).
One example most of us are familiar with.. Auto Meter Gauges. Says Made in USA or America right on the dial. The gauges are built here in the USA...that is true. But numerous components come from asia and elsewhere. I know this is fact. Electronic parts and other metal components for the gauges come from many countries. Now considering Auto Meter is an OE manufacturer for many American Car and Motorcycle companies besides their branded products we sell and private label companies like Livorsi sells... well you get my point.
There are foreign electronic components in just about every appliance and electronic gadget we own including the one I'm typing this post on which is made by HP, an American company. I'll bet a good part of the electronics inside this computer didn't have a US origin.
Cars and trucks... even the domestics are full of foriegn made parts. My guess is some of the foreign companies that have plants here in the US like Honda and Toyota make cars with more US parts than some of Ford and GM's stuff.
And raw material... aluminum for instance. Much of it comes from mills overseas. Even US mills use ingots from elsewhere to manufacture their bar and plate. Just because it has Made in USA stamped on the bar doesn't mean that was the materials raw origin.
Ever buy a diamond. Chances are its not USA origin. Or toys, or most tools, or just about any friggin thing you can think of. Even most the gas you put in your car is made from non-US oil although most is refined here. The list is long. So how much of what we buy and use is really made in the USA, including many of the US made products mentioned in the above posts and the very products Brian produces out of aluminum bar and plate? Just food for thought.
While you can somewhat avoid buying finished foreign goods in some product areas, you can't in others (if you want the products) and you really have no way of knowing the origin of components and materials used in the average store bought item with the Made in USA label on it.
I gave several examples above and my point was that virtually no one can buy 100% American made, me and you included. If you construed this as a slam against you or your products I apologize, that was far from the intent. Hell I use the same aluminum you do. And I also sent you my sources you asked me for in the final post on that thread. (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65197) I took it as you appreciated the fact I brought to light that all the aluminum we take for granted to be USA source may not necessarily be so by your subsequent post on the subject. Guess it's me that's confused.
I just like to answer my own questions, that was my original and remains my only point on all this. Now it's growing way out of proportion it seems.

[schiada96]

dont you guys ever sleep?

[superdave013]

Why would you want a s.s. stuffing box? It seems that it would wear the rudder faster or even guall (sp) up if a s.s. rudder is used too.

[wsuwrhr]

That's interesting Brian, here's my post on that thread...
I gave several examples above and my point was that virtually no one can buy 100% American made, me and you included. If you construed this as a slam against you or your products I apologize, that was far from the intent. Hell I use the same aluminum you do. And I also sent you my sources you asked me for in the final post on that thread. (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65197) I took it as you appreciated the fact I brought to light that all the aluminum we take for granted to be USA source may not necessarily be so by your subsequent post on the subject. Guess it's me that's confused.
I just like to answer my own questions, that was my original and remains my only point on all this. Now it's growing way out of proportion it seems.
The problem is, I go to great lengths to do everything I can to use American made products. I agree that it isn't possible in some cases, but at my shop, and home, I use American made products wherever I can. It isn't an afterthought, when I buy something I ask, and I look.
The post would have been alot better had you not used me as an example.
Here is how it should have been used:
"The list is long. So how much of what we buy and use is really made in the USA, including many of the US made products mentioned in the above posts and the very products "Rex Marine" produces out of aluminum bar and plate? Just food for thought." Your post I edited it.
I am not pissed off, I just didn't like the public lashing, you could have sent me a PM, I would have appologized and taken the post down or edited it, It isn't like you come here once a week. It would have been a matter of minutes or hours and few people would have seen it.
People can diasagree, and still be friends. IMHO.
Brian

[schiada96]

Why would you want a s.s. stuffing box? It seems that it would wear the rudder faster or even guall (sp) up if a s.s. rudder is used too.
you have a lot of guall
I have seen the chrome on chrome lock up and chrome on stainless do the same. I took a chrome and removed the plating on the bore for the very problem you are talking about.

[63stevens]

If you use a stainless stuffing box you might have to put a bronze bushing in it.

[SPECTRABRENT]

Do you think I will have a problem with a stainless rudder & stainless rudder box?
Brent

[Rexone]

Brian, I agree on the USA post I should not have used you as an example. I did not realize your level of sensitivity on the USA made subject and you have my apology on that one although it's a bit late now to edit. I don't like using stuff from elsewhere either, I just have to face the reality that I would have about 2 parts to sell if I strictly limited it considering all materials and components. Almost every aftermarket performance product available has at least some level of non-USA origin within it somewhere even if its only the raw ore the metal was made from. There are a few exceptions I can think of but not many.
I agree on your last point as well, I'm not going away pissed off at you. We've all make careless posts from time to time not fully considering the circumstances. And many times the "tone" of a post can't be protrayed in text so it is not always received in the same context it's written. It's not that big a deal, we talk about it like here and move on.

[Rexone]

Do you think I will have a problem with a stainless rudder & stainless rudder box?
Brent
I've never run stainless on stainless so I can give you a for sure answer. But in this case where there is not high bearing speed (or much of any rotating speed) I'd probably run it as long as I kept it greased well. As long as grease is present I doubt there will be a problem. Any galling in this case would come from harmonic vibration over time and not rotating movement I would think.
I would never try it on a prop shaft seal though. I would think that would be shaft suicide for sure.
Again the above is my opinion only having never tried stainless on stainless for a rudder. Someone who has may have better info.

[schiada96]

I've never run stainless on stainless so I can give you a for sure answer. But in this case where there is not high bearing speed (or much of any rotating speed) I'd probably run it as long as I kept it greased well. As long as grease is present I doubt there will be a problem. Any galling in this case would come from harmonic vibration over time and not rotating movement I would think.
I would never try it on a prop shaft seal though. I would think that would be shaft suicide for sure.
Again the above is my opinion only having never tried stainless on stainless for a rudder. Someone who has may have better info.
Yeah but don't you guys ever sleep?

[Rexone]

Yeah but don't you guys ever sleep?
Yes I just go to the new ski/wakeboard forum and hang out. :D

[Sangerboy]

Pulled them out without damaging the inside of the box using a dental probe.
Hmmmmm. I wonder how you got ahold of one of those? We are supposed to be cautious about giving out old instruments, they can be very dangerous in untrained hands
;)

[GofastRacer]

Hmmmmm. I wonder how you got ahold of one of those? We are supposed to be cautious about giving out old instruments, they can be very dangerous in untrained hands
;)
Just go to a swap meet you'll find shit loads of em!.. :D

[GofastRacer]

Do you think I will have a problem with a stainless rudder & stainless rudder box?
Brent
I would put a brass sleeve in it, that way it won't wear the rudder shaft. Even if they were both plain steel they would wear. With a brass sleeve neither will wear!..

[Jetboatguru]

I really think that we need to get a hold of Jones, Jones and jones and settle this dispute between Rexone and WSUWRHR

[wsuwrhr]

I really think that we need to get a hold of Jones, Jones and jones and settle this dispute between Rexone and WSUWRHR
There ain't no dispute, and don't try and start shit. haha. ;) :chi: :chi:
It's over and done with.
Brian

[Jetboatguru]

Opps sorry!
I just couldn't stand seeing Rexone beat your ass anymore. Carry on!! :p :p
Just a joke Brian!!

[wsuwrhr]

Opps sorry!
I just couldn't stand seeing Rexone beat your ass anymore. Carry on!! :p :p
Just a joke Brian!!
Ha ha pal.
I know it was.
Brian

[Kindsvater Flat]

just a little FYI.......
You can get anything you need from this catalog.
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/mike/rex.jpg

[Norseman]

just a little FYI.......
You can get anything you need from this catalog.
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/mike/rex.jpg
Gee now I know why I didn't find a Rex Marine Catalog in my xmas stocking!! :frown:
Santa couldn't afford to leave it!!! :D
But I guess I can now say I've seen a Rex Marine Catalog! :supp:

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Hey Rex (Mike),
Who makes the roller bearing stuffing box? Do you have those?
Jerry

[Rexone]

I don't know Jerry, haven't seen them.

[Morg]

If you guys are done, lets geet back to the question at hand.
The Stainless stuffing box I recently installed into my boat, is machined with a Dehlrin (sp?) insert. I have not run it yet, But I have herd it works very well.
I believe most of the SSRA guys are running them.

[superdave013]

If you guys are done, lets geet back to the question at hand.
The Stainless stuffing box I recently installed into my boat, is machined with a Dehlrin (sp?) insert. I have not run it yet, But I have herd it works very well.
I believe most of the SSRA guys are running them.
Now that sounds top notch.

[wsuwrhr]

If you guys are done, lets geet back to the question at hand.
The Stainless stuffing box I recently installed into my boat, is machined with a Dehlrin (sp?) insert. I have not run it yet, But I have herd it works very well.
I believe most of the SSRA guys are running them.
get, Delrin, heard.
Carry on. :notam:
Brian

[Rexone]

Delrin is very tough stuff and non abrasive. I would think that would be a great choice.

[Fired Up]

Hmmmmm. I wonder how you got ahold of one of those? We are supposed to be cautious about giving out old instruments, they can be very dangerous in untrained hands
;)
I took it from a dentist that was so busy with his boats he didn't realize his patients were stealing all of his equipment out the back door. In fact, most of the patients walked out the front door with the tools still in their mouth............(purchased the do-it-yourself dentist kit at harbor freight).

[BILLY.B]

If you guys are done, lets geet back to the question at hand.
The Stainless stuffing box I recently installed into my boat, is machined with a Dehlrin (sp?) insert. I have not run it yet, But I have herd it works very well.
I believe most of the SSRA guys are running them. This is the one that my brother-inlaw (uclahater) got for his boat that Brian said he saw. They are suppossed to work really well.

[wsuwrhr]

I use Delrin for suspension bushings I manufacture. It wears really well, and DOESN'T expand with water contact like teflon does.
Brian

[72Hallett]

just a little FYI.......
You can get anything you need from this catalog.
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/mike/rex.jpg
They also sell bigger bildge pumps. That's probably all you need. lol