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Domn8er
01-07-2005, 09:55 AM
I got this from an email...Sorry, kind of long...
Story in Tampa Newspaper
Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in America because it is the Country of Choice??????
Think abo! ut it .
All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS? I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday? We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.
This says it all!
This is an editorial written by an
American citizen, published in a
Tampa newspaper He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!
IMMIGRANTS,
NOT AMERICANS,
MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority
of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.
I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. ! However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH , not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan.. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you
should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We
are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really
don't care how you did things where you came from! . This is
OUR COUNTRY,
our land, & our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the
right to express his opinion & we will allow you every opportunity to do so! But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom,
THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
It is Time for America to Speak up

esabataj
01-07-2005, 10:00 AM
I got this from an email...Sorry, kind of long...
Story in Tampa Newspaper
Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in America because it is the Country of Choice??????
Think abo! ut it .
All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS? I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday? We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.
This says it all!
This is an editorial written by an
American citizen, published in a
Tampa newspaper He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!
IMMIGRANTS,
NOT AMERICANS,
MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority
of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.
I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. ! However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH , not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan.. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you
should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We
are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really
don't care how you did things where you came from! . This is
OUR COUNTRY,
our land, & our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the
right to express his opinion & we will allow you every opportunity to do so! But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom,
THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
It is Time for America to Speak up
I'll second that. He leaves nothing else to be said.

RiverDave
01-07-2005, 10:17 AM
So your saying unless your a diehard christian you shouldn't live in America?
I got the usual religious chain e-mail the other day and this particular one kind of made me think. I'll cut and paste it here for you and we'll test your faith.
-Always Trust God -
When you come to a cliff you should always trust god. He will either catch you, or teach you how to fly.
My response to that stupid e-mail was..
I got the cliff if you got the faith
I'm not saying I don't believe in god, nor am I saying that I have some sort of anti christian sentiment.. But to throw common sense to the wind in the name of religion? Well that's just dangerous and history proves it, time and time again.
------- End Rant about stupid religious e-mails ------
On to the more important thing here.. I do agree with the basis of the text above that we should be focussing alot more on results and getting things done and less on who might get "offended" by such minor things. On the flipside though, I'm all for keeping religion and state seperate. A little something that the text above seems to over look is that the country was founded on THAT IDEA. Keeping religion and state SEPERATE.. And if you think back about the religious persecution that people were enduring that is the reason they threw that in there? My history is a little rusty here.. But weren't some of the most atrocious acts ever recorded in history in the name of religion? (christianity in particular?) Even in America not that long ago terrible things happened when some over zealous people began to mix religion and government. Salem Witch Trials ring a bell?
Now I'm not one of those people that is "offended" if our currency says "In God We Trust" becuase to me I believe it. I also am not offended if the pledge of allegiance says "One Nation Under God" in it, becuase that's the way I learned it when I was young.. But these people that are throwing a huge fit about the possibillity of takign that phrase out?? And the dumbasses that are saying in the name of patriotism it should be in there? The original pledge didn't have that phrase in it.. It was added about 50 years ago. If the original forefathers of this nation wanted anything about god in the pledge of allegiance then they would've put it in there. THEIR WHOLE POINT WAS TO KEEP CHURCH AND STATE SEPERATE.. So the idea that if you thing that religion having anything to do with government is a bad idea makes you a bad american.. Well I call BULLSHIAT.. The fact of the matter is if your pushing religion INTO government then odds are you are either a little misguided as to what this country was founded on, or blinded by faith while screaming at the top of your patriotism in the meantime never understanding the TRUE MEANING of either.
RD <--- does believe in god by the way (just common sense too)

RiverDave
01-07-2005, 10:41 AM
And Dave said "Let there be silence" and there was silence..
Aren't you guys even going to try to defend your position on the matter? I was looking forward to an intellectual type debate this morning.. I guess I'll just go count parts instead.
RD

Domn8er
01-07-2005, 10:44 AM
[QUOTE=RiverDave]So your saying unless your a diehard christian you shouldn't live in America?
No, I actually didn't say anything. However I agree with the email. I don't believe he is saying you have to be a die hard Christian to live in America. I'm not a die hard Christian at all. In fact, as Americans we have the freedom of religion. But this country was founded on Christianity, so why should we (average Americans) change our ways of life. That was the point of this email. I was reading the other day that a lady in court was getting sworn in, went through the whole process and was waiting for the balif to finish. He had stopped talking and she said, "Aren't you suppose to say, so help you God?". The judge said she could say that if she wanted to. I don't know if this is true or not.

RiverDave
01-07-2005, 10:56 AM
Alrighty lets reread a certain portion of this e-mail.. Now keep in mind you said you agree with the e-mail and reposted it, so in my mind that basically means you are saying it.. Que No?
In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan.. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
That following in the context that it was said (the sentances just before it) basically say if you don't have christian principles, and if you are offended by religious displays in schools and government then you should get the heck out? Or am I reading that wrong?
My whole point is that little paragraph is a little short sighted, and terribly misguided to say the least. Just because the forefathers were christian does NOT mean that they wanted to incorporate religion and government. Come to think of it I'd say that's more clearly documented then just about anything becuase a big part of the whole basis of our government was seperation of church and state.
Where's the original guy that wrote that jive, I'll tell him to stick it up his ass given the opportunity.. LOL :D
RD

HM
01-07-2005, 11:14 AM
RD- you are better stick to arguing about drunk driving. :cool:

Domn8er
01-07-2005, 11:24 AM
[QUOTE=RiverDave]Alrighty lets reread a certain portion of this e-mail.. Now keep in mind you said you agree with the e-mail and reposted it, so in my mind that basically means you are saying it.. Que No?
That following in the context that it was said (the sentances just before it) basically say if you don't have christian principles, and if you are offended by religious displays in schools and government then you should get the heck out? Or am I reading that wrong?
I don't think you are getting the point. You don't have to believe in God, you don't have to be a "die hard Christian", but if God OFFENDS you and you make a point of it to where it affects me or the majority of America's belief, then maybe America isn't the place for you. I sure as heck wouldn't move to a country where the NATIONAL religion is Muslim.

RiverDave
01-07-2005, 11:26 AM
RD- you are better stick to arguing about drunk driving. :cool:
Don't make me thump you with a Bible.. LOL :D
RD

RiverDave
01-07-2005, 11:27 AM
[QUOTE=RiverDave]Alrighty lets reread a certain portion of this e-mail.. Now keep in mind you said you agree with the e-mail and reposted it, so in my mind that basically means you are saying it.. Que No?
That following in the context that it was said (the sentances just before it) basically say if you don't have christian principles, and if you are offended by religious displays in schools and government then you should get the heck out? Or am I reading that wrong?
I don't think you are getting the point. You don't have to believe in God, you don't have to be a "die hard Christian", but if God OFFENDS you and you make a point of it to where it affects me or the majority of America's belief, then maybe America isn't the place for you. I sure as heck wouldn't move to a country where the NATIONAL religion is Muslim.
Just out of curiosity.. How many Christians are in the U.S.? How many independants are in the U.S.? And how many Muslims are in the U.S.? As well what's the total population of the U.S.?
RD

oldbuck40
01-07-2005, 11:28 AM
well let me sum it up for you guys. the peeps that dont want god or religion anywhere in their life have that right,,guess where their going :devil: ??? but thats their right to do so. i agree with alot of you if they dont like it we will even help them pack! dont let it bother you, i hear these people all time on the news,,,we dont want them to change it and they dont like it! its always going to be that way whatever the problem is! you all remember the JONES family well keep pushing these people and they will leave too!!!

Domn8er
01-07-2005, 11:51 AM
Just out of curiosity.. How many Christians are in the U.S.? How many independants are in the U.S.? And how many Muslims are in the U.S.? As well what's the total population of the U.S.?
RD
What does it matter? The question is, does the average american get offended by God? If they do, then I guess I am not on the same page with everyone. I am not a Muslim or a Buddahist and I do not get offended by their beliefs or even if it is brought up in a discussion in front of me. The email was stating IF they get offended, then maybe America is not the place for them.

HM
01-07-2005, 01:26 PM
Just out of curiosity.. How many Christians are in the U.S.? How many independants are in the U.S.? And how many Muslims are in the U.S.? As well what's the total population of the U.S.?
RD
I don't know the "christian" #'s, but I read that 85% of the world population beleive in a God. The U.S. was at 95% +.
The people who are trying to get "God" removed from government are not non-christians who beleive in a God. It is not even the egnostic group. It is not even the Athiest groups as a whole...it is a radical group of Athiests with a HATRED and BITTERNESS for anything that is remotely religeous. Most of these people have some issue from their past that they can't get over and are harboring major bitterness for what ever happened to them and can't separate their issues from religion. I heard Hannity tear one guy up on his radio program. Hannity just probed and the guy went bizurk showing his true hatred...he was the guy behind getting the Reference to God taken out of the Pledge and how it harmed his daughter. The guy was a freak.
There has been a long movement against christians by a small, yet effective liberal group in the U.S. that had had the luxury of controlling most media outlets until recently. Christians are often called upon as spewing "hate speech" when they are talking about values. The radical christian right is used as the example of christians. I don't agree with the radical religous right, but we need them to battle the equally nutty liberal left. The media had covered up thier movement as "mainstream", but not anymore. There is a sleeping giant of God fearing people in the U.S. that will soon slap the liberals squarely in the face.
RD - don't pull the radical right religeous groups and antedotal "e-mails" to represent christianity. I am against those morons as much as anyone else. The radicals are typically f'd up in the head (clinically) and usually are hypocrites. Again, they are needed to fight an equally nutty and f'd extreme opposite. When the balance of power moves too far in either direction, those of us in the middle, both christians and non-christians, stand up and bitch slap the violating party.
The references to God in our govenment are pretty minimal and in no way force religion upon anyone. The people who are fighting to get all mentions of God or christian religion are just angry bitter haters who need a diaper change. They need to spend their money on a shrink.

HM
01-07-2005, 01:30 PM
BTW - I am suprised this thread has not been moved. ;)

mickeyfinn
01-07-2005, 02:50 PM
Seperation of Church and state was meant to keep the state out of the church not the other way around. The founding fathers were for the most part Christian men and saw no problem with religion in the state. They wanted a government that sanctioned Christian ideals. The majority of people in this country are Christian and this Country was founded in a large part due to these people having a desire to live in a place where they could practice their religion without fear of persecution. If you choose to live in a Country where the majority of the people are christian and you are offended by GOD then you ARE living in the wrong place. Those of us who consider ourselves Christians and believe in GOD are bound by their belief to share our beliefs with others and do what we can to show those people how to bring GOD into their life so that they may share in his joy. If you don't like it you don't have to listen, but don't expect us to quit trying. Whether you believe in GOD or allah or don't believe in GOD at all, that doesn't change history. The fact is that a lot of good people died in order to insure they had the right to practice their religion and founded a country to insure that right to their future generations. So if you don't like the fact that yes you do in fact live in a Country that is mostly Christian, has a government that supports Christian values, however protects your right to believe and to practice whatever religion you may choose then you are indeed in the wrong part of the world. Wars have been fought over religion all through history and I'm sure the last of these wars has not been fought yet. If the minority continue to be supported by the liberals in this country and we are all forced to change in order to be politically correct or to avoid being seen as "insensitive" to other religions then you can probably count on the fact that the next war over religion occuring on our on soil with us (read "the christian majority) going to war to take back the country created by our forefathers, died for by our forefathers and left to us to insure a place to live and to be free to practice our religion.
You don't have to agree with anything I have written above. That is the beauty of this country that was formed for us. We don't require that you adopt our religion, pretend to practice our religion, we will even fight to insure that you have a right to practice your religion (even though we honestly believe you will go to hell for doing so). But start trying to do things we regard as restricting those rights and we will get madder than hell and the "sleeping giant" will once again awaken.
Trying to be "politically correct" and "encouraging Diversity" will surely be the downfall of this country. There was a post recently that outlined how these very things have been the beginning of the end for alll of the major powers on this earth throughout history. We don't need Christian americans, muslim americans, black americans etc. We need "americans". We may not all believe in the exact same things. We may constantly trying to convert each other to our way of thinking but the bottom line is we are a republic which while not a true democracy does usually result in the majority of the people's beliefs being what laws are based on. To steal a quote from another article that has been posted here many thimes: After you are through whining and bitching about the way things in this country are we also encourage you to take advantage of another one of the wonderful rights that people in this country have. "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!"
You may view people as being right wing for expressing this type of viewpoint but the truth is that people who are afraid to express their views because they may offend someone else or because they don't want to be mocked by others can not truly be Christians. Christians are proud of their beliefs and have truly found joy from knowing GOD and have an honest desire that all people share this joy and therefore will try to show you the way.

mickeyfinn
01-07-2005, 02:52 PM
oh yes.....I guess you should get your popcorn and beer now. I'm sure that post will cause some reactions. Should be interesting to see how many views it gets vs. replies. Would love to see that the majority of the people on this site are Christians and support this viewpoint by them replying.

HM
01-07-2005, 03:03 PM
Nice post. Gonna save that one, use it later and claim it as mine. ;)

Jrocket
01-07-2005, 03:06 PM
So what if you dont beleive in God at all?

mickeyfinn
01-07-2005, 03:13 PM
So what if you dont beleive in God at all?
You are welcome to stay here and live here as long as you don't try and interfere with our right to practice our religion and are okay with the fact that we will continue to try and show you the way and as long as you realize that you are in the minority in this country and don't try to get us to change the way we do things in order to avoid offending you. I guess one way of looking at it is that if you are homosexual, don't get mad because you went into a female strip club and you had to see naked women.

Jrocket
01-07-2005, 03:16 PM
You are welcome to stay here and live here as long as you don't try and interfere with our right to practice our religion and are okay with the fact that we will continue to try and show you the way and as long as you realize that you are in the minority in this country and don't try to get us to change the way we do things in order to avoid offending you. I guess one way of looking at it is that if you are homosexual, don't get mad because you went into a female strip club and you had to see naked women.
Well then what about the religious people that go knocking on the doors of nonreligious people?

HM
01-07-2005, 03:16 PM
So what if you dont beleive in God at all?
You are free to stay and not believe, or leave and not believe, it is your choice. :cool:
But, you will burn in hell - SINNER!! J/K'ing. :)
BTW - what is your point?

Tom Brown
01-07-2005, 03:20 PM
I'm not saying I don't believe in god, nor am I saying that I have some sort of anti christian sentiment.. But to throw common sense to the wind in the name of religion? Well that's just dangerous and history proves it, time and time again.
That's history's job.
Praise God. :cool:

HM
01-07-2005, 03:21 PM
Well then what about the religious people that go knocking on the doors of nonreligious people?
They knock on everybody's door - they are recruiting. Get a big dog. Or come to the door in the devils costume and invite them in to witness your offering to Diablo.
ADT knocks on your door, so do satelite guys, and the kirby dude to mention a few.
You can go knock on other people's doors to start a movement to stop people from knocking on your door. sounds silly, but you will have full support of the ACLU as they love fighting shit that gives you the right to fight.
Or, get a peep hole and don't answer it.

mickeyfinn
01-07-2005, 03:22 PM
Well then what about the religious people that go knocking on the doors of nonreligious people?
Like I said. This Country was founded by Christians to insure they had a place to worship. We ARE the majority. If you come here to live expect that people may knock on your door. It is your right to tell someone to go away. We will even fight for your right to come and knock on our door and convince us that there is no GOD. We will be polite and tell you where you will be if you don't change the way YOU believe, but you have the right to try. All I'm saying is that when you live in a Country that is founded on the protection of certain rights don't expect us to change the way we exercise those rights because you don't like it. Go and find your own place, create you own country and you can make the laws however you like.
ps. all the good places to put said country are taken.

Jrocket
01-07-2005, 03:27 PM
Like I said. This Country was founded by Christians to insure they had a place to worship.
I thought the country was founded due to the people wanting to exercise their freedom and rights,not religion?Im no history pro though...

mickeyfinn
01-07-2005, 03:35 PM
I thought the country was founded due to the people wanting to exercise their freedom and rights,not religion?Im no history pro though...
Read the original Bill or Rights. #1 was the freedom of religion. But this was not enough for these people. They had been persecuted and prevented from expressing their beliefs and wanted to insure they had to right to control the government and to not be dictated to so they added 2-10 as back up to the first one. like it or not that is the truth. The basic founding belief of our founders was protecting our right of religion. It was recognized that along with that right came others that had to be protected in order to insure that the first one remained true.

HM
01-07-2005, 03:47 PM
Im no history pro though...
Really...had no clue. ;)
But really, don't let that stop you from challenging people who are. I mean, it really is fun to argue with someone who does not know what they are talking about. :D

RiverDave
01-07-2005, 04:00 PM
mickeyfinn, you have an interesting view point on our countries history. Especially your opening statements regarding keeping government out of religion and not religion out of government.. LOL.. Wow!!
RD

Jrocket
01-07-2005, 04:21 PM
Really...had no clue. ;)
But really, don't let that stop you from challenging people who are. I mean, it really is fun to argue with someone who does not know what they are talking about. :D
You argue with yourself often I take it? :D

mickeyfinn
01-07-2005, 04:29 PM
mickeyfinn, you have an interesting view point on our countries history. Especially your opening statements regarding keeping government out of religion and not religion out of government.. LOL.. Wow!!
RD
When I read the documents that founded this Country I am truly amazed that anyone could believe otherwise. If you read the declaration of independence not only did they desire to have religion in the government the founding fathers actually put in the last line which reads "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providencewe mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refuted his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred. to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. --And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
--John Hancock
New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
Massachusetts:
John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery
Connecticut:
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott
New York:
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris
New Jersey:
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark
Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross
Delaware:
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
Maryland:
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia:
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
North Carolina:
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
Georgia:
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

HM
01-07-2005, 05:27 PM
You argue with yourself often I take it? :D
All the time, and it bugs the fock outa me. If I keep it up, I am gonna biatchslap myself! :D

Jrocket
01-07-2005, 05:35 PM
All the time, and it bugs the fock outa me. If I keep it up, I am gonna biatchslap myself! :D
Take it easy on yourself,whos gonna run the pyramids if your beat up? LOL :p

GMFL
01-07-2005, 06:03 PM
When I read the documents that founded this Country I am truly amazed that anyone could believe otherwise. If you read the declaration of independence not only did they desire to have religion in the government the founding fathers actually put in the last line which reads "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providencewe mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
WHAT????
The Declaration of Independence did just that. Declare Independence from Britain. It did not spell out the way our government would be organized. That was left to the U.S. Constitution, which specifically left religion out entirely except for two small notations.
Quit trying to thrust Christianity into every aspect of life. It is really annoying.

Domn8er
01-07-2005, 06:11 PM
WHAT????
The Declaration of Independence did just that. Declare Independence from Britain. It did not spell out the way our government would be organized. That was left to the U.S. Constitution, which specifically left religion out entirely except for two small notations.
Quit trying to thrust Christianity into every aspect of life. It is really annoying.
Nobody is trying to "thrust Christianity into every aspect of life". Bottom line of this thread is, why should we as American's have to change or adapt to people who come here and are offended by our ways of life. They should learn to live with it and adapt and not try and change America.

mickeyfinn
01-07-2005, 06:18 PM
WHAT????
The Declaration of Independence did just that. Declare Independence from Britain. It did not spell out the way our government would be organized. That was left to the U.S. Constitution, which specifically left religion out entirely except for two small notations.
Quit trying to thrust Christianity into every aspect of life. It is really annoying.
Not every aspect of your life. Just the ones that matter. The way you handle yourself, the way we treat others and the way we govern ourselves. Not trying to force anything on anyone. I just get tired of all the people in this country who for whatever reason think it is okay for us to throw away traditions and values that our country was founded on because it offends them yet expect us to give up those things without taking offense.
Do I find Atheist offensive?
Yes. I believe firmly that these people are going to hell
Do I find people who find their faith in allah offensive?
Yes I believe firmly these people are going to hell
Do I believe that all of these people have to right to their respective beliefs?
Yes. I don't believe that faith or morals or values can be forced. They must be learned and believed in before someone can truly have faith.
Most of all I find it offensive that when 2000 or 15000 or whatever number of people gather for a government function that the objection of 2 or 3 or even 1 person can cause the whole group to have to re-organize and re-structure a program that may have been in existence for many years in order to be "politically correct" and avoid offending someone. So if you don't want Christianity to be a part of your life there are definitely organizations that support that view. You are totally free to join and support these organizations. You can object and claim offense all the way along the road to Hell.

DogHouse
01-07-2005, 06:22 PM
Someone please explain to me why references to God and religion need to be in government documents, pledges, etc. This really is a free country for the most part, believe whatever you want. If you're truly confident and comfortable in your beliefs, then you should see that government doesn't need to promote it in any way.
I just love the way some people feel that you have to be Christian to be a true good American. I'm about as pro-American as it gets. I truly believe in the economic system and social freedoms that we enjoy. However, I personally feel that ALL organized religion is just full of sh_t, plain and simple. There are so many reasons for this that I won't even start that debate. I like having my mind void of the trappings of religion, free to practice my own spirituality in whatever form I see fit. I see religion as a way to explain the basic questions that mankind has wondered about from the beginning and never been able to explain, i.e. what is all this stuff around me that we call the world, where did I come from, and why am I here... Do I believe in God? No, not as defined by religion. Do I believe that there's something bigger out there that we are all a part of? Yes, but I don't have a clue what that is, and I never will. I'm ok with that. If that something requires me to go to church on Sunday, pledge my faith to some arbitrary man-made deity (pick one, there are many to choose from), and donate 10% of my earnings to the church to demonstrate my devotion, then I guess I'm screwed.
I also love how so many people equate religion with morality. Ha ha, give me a break. Let's use some common sense. The ten commandments are really pretty simple, common sense type of stuff. Don't kill anyone. Don't hurt others. Don't cheat on your spouse. Don't steal. Etc. Pretty much boils down to do unto others as you would have done onto yourself. Again, common sense stuff for getting along in a society. My plan is to live my life in a way that is meaningful and decent based on commonly accepted standards of behavior, standards that I feel are right, regardless of their origins, religious or otherwise. If that lands me in "hell", then so be it. Somehow, I doubt that will happen. I also don't believe that saying I believe in <insert favorite god here> and asking for forgiveness will reserve a spot in whatever <insert favorite heaven here> there may be. A person either lives his/her life in a good way or doesn't, and where he/she is born, whatever culture, religion, etc, doesn't make a difference. It just boils down to are you a good person or aren't you. Very simple.
Now most of the time, I don't really give a hoot about the word "God" in the pledge, on the dollar bill, or whereever. I just ignore it and move on, no big deal. What I do care about is that I have small kids, and I want them to grow up unincumbered by the ideas of organized religion. If they choose to become educated on religion in the future and adopt a certain philosophy, then so be it. I expect them to make their own choices in life. But right now, they're young, and if someone tells them that they're going to burn in hell because they don't believe in Jesus, then guess what, they'll believe it because they are impressionable, and that sort of thing can stick with them forever. IMO, that's why religions teach the young, to brainwash them before they have a chance to really think for themselves and form their own ideas, and eventually lead to greater control and power for the church.
So, there you have it, an independent thinking man's opinion. I'm sure I'll get crucified for this one!
:D

GMFL
01-07-2005, 06:30 PM
Nobody is trying to "thrust Christianity into every aspect of life". Bottom line of this thread is, why should we as American's have to change or adapt to people who come here and are offended by our ways of life. They should learn to live with it and adapt and not try and change America.
You should read Mickeyfinn's post below yours. :confused: :confused: :confused:

GMFL
01-07-2005, 06:44 PM
Good Post DogHouse.
Just another quick note:
Many like to note that "In God We Trust" is written on the back of U.S. Currency in their justification of Christianity in U.S. Government. I would like to also point out that there is an Egyptian pyramid just to the left of that quote.
Who's god are we trusting?
I do think it's crazy when people try to get religious symbols removed. Recently in L.A., there was an order to remove a cross from their county seal. I would be against that only for the fiscal ramifications of doing so. Why bother??
:idea: :idea:

Jrocket
01-07-2005, 07:20 PM
So, there you have it, an independent thinking man's opinion. I'm sure I'll get crucified for this one!
:D
Not by me!

DogHouse
01-07-2005, 07:49 PM
Not by me!
I thought you were part of the cult? :confused:
:D

Jrocket
01-07-2005, 07:54 PM
I thought you were part of the cult? :confused:
:D
I am,you got me! DCB only! :rollside:

DogHouse
01-07-2005, 07:57 PM
Lol!
;)

mickeyfinn
01-07-2005, 10:35 PM
Good Post DogHouse.
Just another quick note:
Many like to note that "In God We Trust" is written on the back of U.S. Currency in their justification of Christianity in U.S. Government. I would like to also point out that there is an Egyptian pyramid just to the left of that quote.
Who's god are we trusting?
I do think it's crazy when people try to get religious symbols removed. Recently in L.A., there was an order to remove a cross from their county seal. I would be against that only for the fiscal ramifications of doing so. Why bother??
:idea: :idea:
Just thought I would add to this post and explain some of these symbols found on the back of a dollar build.This was taken from another website but I looked at probably 10 and everyone of them tell the same story. Doesn't make it fact but would tend to lend credibility as I could not find anything that differed from this:
On the back of the dollar bill there are two circles. These circles represent the Great Seal Of the United States. The First Continental Congress requested that Benjamin Franklin come up with a Seal. It took him four years to come up with this Seal and another two years to get it approved. If you look at the left hand circle, you will see a Pyramid. The face is lighted and the western side is dark. This represents a country that was just beginning. We had not begun to explore the West and were unsure of what we would do in the west. The Pyramid is UN-capped meaning we were not yet finished with building the United States of America. Inside the capstone you have the all-seeing eye, an ancient symbol for divinity. Benjamin Franklin believed that man couldn't lead the country alone, but a group of men, with the help of God, could do anything.
"IN GOD WE TRUST" is printed on the dollar bill. The Latin above the pyramid, ANNUIT COEPTIS, means "God has favored our undertaking." The Latin below the pyramid, NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, means "a new order has begun." At the base of the pyramid is the Roman Numeral for 1776.