Hand Hole Solution!!!!!!!

[DansBlown73Nordic]

Why not just thread the inside of the hole with a pipe thread. Then if you need to remove it you just turn out a plug. I would think this would work great. Maybe im missing something????

[UBFJ #454]

To Simple A Solution ... Gotta Be More Complicated Than That!

[DansBlown73Nordic]

Well after reading about all these guys filling them with epoxy,and JB weld. I think my idea would be a great solution. You could make a pipe plug with a handle of some sort. That way you could remove the plug if needed.

[Jake W2]

We are not filling the whole hole just the gap around the hand hole plug.
Sounds like an idea that would work but that would be a big ass tap. :rollside:
Jake

[wsuwrhr]

Sounds like an idea that would work but that would be a big ass tap. :rollside:
Jake
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Damn,
Brian

[roostwear]

Just the slightest bit of corrosion on the threads and it would lock up tighter than a drum. Might as well epoxy it and KNOW you can't get in there.

[schiada96]

We are not filling the whole hole just the gap around the hand hole plug.
Sounds like an idea that would work but that would be a big ass tap. :rollside:
Jake
two words thread mill

[DansBlown73Nordic]

I can't believe im the first guy to think of this idea. Im just a Dumb V-Drive guy.....lol
Im not real sure how big the hole is. Im thinking 4 inch? Maybe it is some strange size. If it is a sleeve could be welded into the hole to adapt to a common pipe size. Im sure some never sieze type shit would keep the threads working like a charm..... ;)

[wsuwrhr]

two words thread mill
Tapered thread milling?
That ought to be fun.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

Although threading the inside of the pump would work, I would entertain the idea of doing it.
Since the cover serves two purposes, what about the void in the intake caused by removing the handhole cover? :idea: :idea:
I am interested to see the "billet" handhole covers. The cast deal can't be much better than the cover it replaces.
Brian

[schiada96]

Tapered thread milling?
That ought to be fun.
Brian
I wouldn't think it would have to be npt

[Mighty Thor]

Seems to be a whole lot of solution for a non problem. The number of hand hole covers that acutally blow off seems to be small and the general consensus is that those that have them inside the boat don't dare open them while on the water anyhow. The factory clamp seems to work for virtually all of the factory apps and the hopped up crowd Really only needs a reinforced holding system. for those that will never remove then epoxy will probably be the cheapest easiest fix, plus a little heat and it can still be taken out. For the rest any band around the outside should do the trick.

[Jake W2]

Brian I was thinking he ment a threaded plug to go all the way down and fit the contour of the suction pice if he ment just a one inch or so cap that would be a not so good idea.
Jake

[1Bahnerjet]

set back pump is the Answer, or as Her454 calls them, innies & outties :D then you just have to worry about someone rear ending your Pump when towing in Traffic :rolleyes:

[BlownNitro540]

Brian I was thinking he ment a threaded plug to go all the way down and fit the contour of the suction pice if he ment just a one inch or so cap that would be a not so good idea.
Jake
I think you would have a hard time indexing the cap and threads to correctly position the contour when the o-ring is properly sealed.

[Jake W2]

I do not think any one said it would be easy :wink: Thats is why I filled mine ,now that was easy.
Jake

[schiada96]

I think you would have a hard time indexing the cap and threads to correctly position the contour when the o-ring is properly sealed.
thread mill

[BlownNitro540]

thread mill
There is a whole lot more to it than just saying a thread mill. When the threaded cap is tightened to seal the O-ring, the contour of the cap must exactly align with the contour of the housing. To accomplish this task there many things to consider: where is the starting point in cutting the threads on the cap and housing, the length of thread and register on the cap, the compression of the O-ring, etc...

[wsuwrhr]

There is a whole lot more to it than just saying a thread mill. When the threaded cap is tightened to seal the O-ring, the contour of the cap must exactly align with the contour of the housing. To accomplish this task there many things to consider: where is the starting point in cutting the threads on the cap and housing, the length of thread and register on the cap, the compression of the O-ring, etc...
That's what I was trying to say.
I think Schiada96 just likes the sound of the word.
Brian

[berk]

why not just set the pump back like it should be and forget about the billet/cast/epoxy debate? put the money towards the setback and its like actually doing ssomething positive as well as keeping the hand hole and makng it actually handy! ours is fully exposed on the outside and if needed is just a few nuts.

[schiada96]

That's what I was trying to say.
I think Schiada96 just likes the sound of the word.
Brian
Nope I know the the thread depth can be fine tuned to work. And a cap can be made with an o-ring. Surfaceing to contour to match the rad on the pump.
wsu I know you can do it. I know at the shop I manage we could do it.
I'm just a guy who makes stuff I don't know nuthin

[DansBlown73Nordic]

It was just a idea..... ;)

[schiada96]

There is a whole lot more to it than just saying a thread mill. When the threaded cap is tightened to seal the O-ring, the contour of the cap must exactly align with the contour of the housing. To accomplish this task there many things to consider: where is the starting point in cutting the threads on the cap and housing, the length of thread and register on the cap, the compression of the O-ring, etc...
Why? The factory caps are not contoured to match.

[Sanger D]

The only real way to fix the hand hole problem is to get a F@#!@#N V DRIVE,Why put yourselves through this agony :cry: just put a gear box in your danm boat and be done with it!!!just think ,you get to try all diff. kind of gears,no giant terd hangin off the back of your boat,think of all the money you,d save from trying to build your pump to keep up with a v drive,and then you would,nt have to ride in a potatoe chip hull just so you can run in the 80,s and 90,s,but I understand its hard for ya to make such a scary leap like that,probably need to practice some driving skills first hah?.well maybe some day when yers all growed up :rolleyes: :wink: TA TA

[schiada96]

The only real way to fix the hand hole problem is to get a F@#!@#N V DRIVE,Why put yourselves through this agony :cry: just put a gear box in your danm boat and be done with it!!!just think ,you get to try all diff. kind of gears,no giant terd hangin off the back of your boat,think of all the money you,d save from trying to build your pump to keep up with a v drive,and then you would,nt have to ride in a potatoe chip hull just so you can run in the 80,s and 90,s,but I understand its hard for ya to make such a scary leap like that,probably need to practice some driving skills first hah?.well maybe some day when yers all growed up :rolleyes: :wink: TA TA
The first correct answer

[wsuwrhr]

wsu I know you can do it.
Thanks,
Nothin for nothin, it's called "helical interpolation"
Basically making an arc into halfs, and adding a specific "Z" move into the arc. The upward or downward motion of the spindle becomes the "pitch" of the thread.
Makes a nice thread too.
Brian

[LUVNLIFE]

why not just set the pump back like it should be and forget about the billet/cast/epoxy debate? put the money towards the setback and its like actually doing ssomething positive as well as keeping the hand hole and makng it actually handy! ours is fully exposed on the outside and if needed is just a few nuts.
Give that man a stuffed animal from the top shelf :D

[schiada96]

Thanks,
Nothin for nothin, it's called "helical interpolation"
Basically making an arc into halfs, and adding a specific "Z" move into the arc. The upward or downward motion of the spindle becomes the "pitch" of the thread.
Makes a nice thread too.
Brian
And pipe would be taperd helical interpolation easy g-code on the fadal.
1/4-20 would move up .05 per revolution. Its not magic.
Iscar makes great tools.

[billet racing]

And then you can shim it to stop exactly where you need. Easy line up each time. As it wears, just keep shimming.
How about this? Look at how many times you've needed to clean it out vs how many times you've needed to fix a leak. Go the lesser of two evils.
I've never had the need to clean mine out, So I don't see a reason to cast it in the first place.

[BlownNitro540]

Why? The factory caps are not contoured to match.
Funny, because my stock Berkeley cover was contoured to match.

[BlownNitro540]

I've never had the need to clean mine out, So I don't see a reason to cast it in the first place.
Without the hole casted in the housing, where would you mount a pop-off valve.

[schiada96]

Funny, because my stock Berkeley cover was contoured to match.
Hey I don't know nuthin about jets just from what I have seen and if within a quarter of an inch is contoured so be it.

[R.A.D.man]

[then you just have to worry about someone rear ending your Pump when towing in Traffic :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Bad memory there. :eat:

[Unchained]

The only real way to fix the hand hole problem is to get a F@#!@#N V DRIVE,Why put yourselves through this agony :cry: just put a gear box in your danm boat and be done with it!!!just think ,you get to try all diff. kind of gears,no giant terd hangin off the back of your boat,think of all the money you,d save from trying to build your pump to keep up with a v drive,and then you would,nt have to ride in a potatoe chip hull just so you can run in the 80,s and 90,s,but I understand its hard for ya to make such a scary leap like that,probably need to practice some driving skills first hah?.well maybe some day when yers all growed up :rolleyes: :wink: TA TA
Post some pictures of your boat so we all can see it.
It must be some mighty fine machine.
You do have a boat.......don't you? ...........

[moneysucker]

The only real way to fix the hand hole problem is to get a F@#!@#N V DRIVE,Why put yourselves through this agony :cry: just put a gear box in your danm boat and be done with it!!!just think ,you get to try all diff. kind of gears,no giant terd hangin off the back of your boat,think of all the money you,d save from trying to build your pump to keep up with a v drive,and then you would,nt have to ride in a potatoe chip hull just so you can run in the 80,s and 90,s,but I understand its hard for ya to make such a scary leap like that,probably need to practice some driving skills first hah?.well maybe some day when yers all growed up :rolleyes: :wink: TA TA
It is hard to have a leak on the trailer in the parking lot.

[Her454]

set back pump is the Answer, or as Her454 calls them, innies & outties :D then you just have to worry about someone rear ending your Pump when towing in Traffic :rolleyes:
LMAO, Ok..I deserved that. :jawdrop: :D

[Sanger D]

It is hard to have a leak on the trailer in the parking lot. It,s a beautiful 69 sanger,the cleanest 69 in pretty much origenal cond. that you,ve ever seen ,(I shit you not),its sweet!!heavy tank hull,but still runs in the 80,s with a STOCK 454,and single carb,not as fast as most flats but very respectable none the less,I can run in water that hydros and runner bottoms fear!!!I launch it in the morning and load it at the end of the day and you MIGHT be able to get a 1/2 cup of water out of it!!! :) that boat can sit in the water all day and not leak a drop!!The only water in the boat is what I drag in it gettin in and out of it.Its a trouble FREE,turn key and enjoy kinda boat,that boat at 80 is like ridin in a runner at110+ so the thrill is there with out all the big perf. motor head aches,plus my wife can drive the shit out of it and I don,t have to worry about her too much!!its a clean sorta show boat with some good perf. and very high thrill level,so its really the best of all worlds,it likes chop water,glass is for the timid at heart!! :) I garentee you I can put the fear of GOD in you at 85 mph.its what are dads used to race in the good ole days but with new tech.I,ll give squirtin thunder some pics and have him post em,cause my PC is tech. challenged at this time :rollside: but I do ALL my own work and mech. on it and my hot rods so the money is put to better use then just payin someone else to do it, otherwise this would be a hobby I deffinatly could,nt afford,(if ya know what I mean!!)

[Unchained]

A local guy here in Mi. has that same hull.
He sold me his Cheyenne jet that went 100 mph even at the drags.
Put the same motor in a Sanger flatbottom and went 88 mph at the drags.
I seen him run it both times.
You must be misinformed about jets.

[schiada96]

A local guy here in Mi. has that same hull.
He sold me his Cheyenne jet that went 100 mph even at the drags.
Put the same motor in a Sanger flatbottom and went 88 mph at the drags.
I seen him run it both times.
You must be misinformed about jets.
sounds like set up problems

[Unchained]

sounds like set up problems
You mean like,
The wrong gears,
The wrong prop,
The wrong angle on the cavitation plate,
The wrong impeller,
The wrong nozzle angle,
The wrong angle on the ride plate?

[Jake W2]

:eek: They do not like to compare or under stand just down jet stuff.
Jake

[schiada96]

:eek: They do not like to compare or under stand just down jet stuff.
Jake
Where did I put down a jet??

[Jake W2]

Just in general.I am sure you love jets. :cool:
Jake

[Cs19]

thread the inside of the hole with a pipe thread.
I think its a LAME idea.
So is all the machine shop talk.
If you machine the top of the cover flat, then fab a plate out of 1/4 alum and bolt it down on top of the HH cover, it wont come off. If your still that worried about it, epoxy it in as well. It wont come off if you invest a little time.
or go ahead and pay a machine shop (ALOT OF MONEY) to bore it, then tap it, make the plug,all that..its up to you, but lets be realistic.

[LVjetboy]

"I think its a LAME idea. So is all the machine shop talk."
Yes.
Remember folks, if your handhole is inside like mine or the poor jetter who just sank his jet (the reason for this thread), then you probably won't be using it to clean out. In that case, clean out or how easy it's removed is a non-issue. Unless your handhole is WAY inside and easily accessible like maybe a daycruiser. What does that mean? In many inside situations, that means it makes sense to epoxy since the handhole is otherwise nonfunctional. Consider your situation and decide.
If your handhole's outside, why read this thread? You have no hand hole sinking failure worries...be happy.
Berk posted, "Why not just set back the pump <far enough> to avoid hand hole cover failure altogether?"
Well, some jetters don't have that option. And other jetters with a setback pump still don't have their handhole clear the transom or transom adaptor. And still other jetters considering setback don't want to break their transom with the intake flange and risk leak just to get the handhole outside the transom. So I guess to answer your question, there's a couple reasons "why not"
jer

[LVjetboy]

Sanger D posted: "The only real way to fix the hand hole problem is to get a F@#!@#N V DRIVE"
In response, Schiada 96 posted: "The first correct answer"
Suck up. Like you'd know either?
Sanger D further posted: "then you would,nt have to ride in a potatoe chip hull just so you can run in the 80,s and 90,s,but I understand its hard for ya to make such a scary leap like that"
Let us know when you make that scary leap to 100 mph in your potatoe chip hull gear swap thingy. Then maybe you can talk?? Your amazing and blazing 85 mph doesn't cut it here, although maybe scary to you as a young v driver...sorry!
"...probably need to practice some driving skills first hah? Well maybe some day when yers all growed up TA TA"
Ta Ta? Sounds a bit gay.
Maybe you should practice your skills when you get that v-drive pos ready to run me or other jetters posting this thread. We could hand you your butt twice over. 85 mph (if you even run that?) a bit lame. I thought all v-drivers ran 100? But thanks for sharing your numbers.
jer

[Unchained]

I garentee you I can put the fear of GOD in you at 85 mph.)
Does this mean ill handling and barely in control would be considered a plus to some folks?
Here's some quotes I've heard from llocal guys who used to have flatbottoms,
" They're suicide machines"
" I got tossed out twice and then I got rid of it"
" I could never go out boating in the middle of the day "
And the best one yet from a guy who had just got back from a ride in a flatbottom. "My nuts won't be the same for a week"
Maybe it's just me but the faster I go the safer I want to feel.
When I skipped over some rollers that were higher than my boats hull at over 100 last fall I was real happy to be driving a tunnel hull jet boat.

[schiada96]

Sanger D posted: "The only real way to fix the hand hole problem is to get a F@#!@#N V DRIVE"
In response, Schiada 96 posted: "The first correct answer"
Suck up. Like you'd know either?
Sanger D further posted: "then you would,nt have to ride in a potatoe chip hull just so you can run in the 80,s and 90,s,but I understand its hard for ya to make such a scary leap like that"
Let us know when you make that scary leap to 100 mph in your potatoe chip hull gear swap thingy. Then maybe you can talk?? Your amazing and blazing 85 mph doesn't cut it here, although maybe scary to you as a young v driver...sorry!
"...probably need to practice some driving skills first hah? Well maybe some day when yers all growed up TA TA"
Ta Ta? Sounds a bit gay.
Maybe you should practice your skills when you get that v-drive pos ready to run me or other jetters posting this thread. We could hand you your butt twice over. 85 mph (if you even run that?) a bit lame. I thought all v-drivers ran 100? But thanks for sharing your numbers.
jer
My is not a 100 mph is yours across havasu on a normal weekend. Lighten up it was a joke. I'll run ya for grins howabout from Needles to Topock with a skier? Rember I don't have a 100 mph boat just 95.

[berk]

"I think its a LAME idea. So is all the machine shop talk."
Yes.
Remember folks, if your handhole is inside like mine or the poor jetter who just sank his jet (the reason for this thread), then you probably won't be using it to clean out. In that case, clean out or how easy it's removed is a non-issue. Unless your handhole is WAY inside and easily accessible like maybe a daycruiser. What does that mean? In many inside situations, that means it makes sense to epoxy since the handhole is otherwise nonfunctional. Consider your situation and decide.
If your handhole's outside, why read this thread? You have no hand hole sinking failure worries...be happy.
Berk posted, "Why not just set back the pump <far enough> to avoid hand hole cover failure altogether?"
Well, some jetters don't have that option. And other jetters with a setback pump still don't have their handhole clear the transom or transom adaptor. And still other jetters considering setback don't want to break their transom with the intake flange and risk leak just to get the handhole outside the transom. So I guess to answer your question, there's a couple reasons "why not"
jer
it was my understanding that a setback was for geater performance not to add leaks or get handhole out of boat, those are just bonuses. by the way my boat leaks like a SOB, but luckily i have whats called a "bilge pump"

[Jeanyus]

I think its a LAME idea.
So is all the machine shop talk.
If you machine the top of the cover flat, then fab a plate out of 1/4 alum and bolt it down on top of the HH cover, it wont come off. If your still that worried about it, epoxy it in as well. It wont come off if you invest a little time.
or go ahead and pay a machine shop (ALOT OF MONEY) to bore it, then tap it, make the plug,all that..its up to you, but lets be realistic.
You mean like this ?
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5859handhole-med.jpg
Now I need an MPD transom plate, so I would be able to get the cover off.
My only question would be does MPD make a smaller transom plate, I have a smaller area to cover because of the pod.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/585985bahner-thumb.jpg

[Squirtcha?]

From what I've seen, that's the usual size (area to be covered) as Jack's regular transom plate. Could be wrong though. I don't know if they're all a one off deal made specifically for each boat, or a standard deal.
I'm sure somebody that has one will chime in.

[flat broke]

Best I know, there isn't a "regular" transom plate that comes out of MPD. They're custom made, which means that it will fit your boat, your pump, etc. If ya want one, tow it on down to MPD and let em go to work. Or if you have the ability to weld aluminum and do some simple fabrication, you could probably make one yourself. I've never known Jack not to let a customer have a peek at how something is made.
Chris

[Squirtcha?]

I don't know if they're all a one off deal made specifically for each boat, or a standard deal.
There ya go. Asked.............and answered.

[PC Rat]

How about some pictures of transom adapters? If we need to start a new thread - go for it. [done it]
I need to build a new transom adapter and need some ideas. Has anyone bolted their transom adapter to the pump in some way - I would like to do it on my Daytona because they cut out the bottom of the transom to set back the pump and I noticed a small horizontal crack going from where the bottom and transom meet, almost to the tunnel. I would like to add a pump brace as well.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

I've never known Jack not to let a customer have a peek at how something is made.
Chris
I can attest to that, he TOLD me what I had to do when I made the new shaft and added the Berk impeller. He would rather me make it since he was so busy at the time.
Best guy to deal with.
Jack is the man.
Brian

[LVjetboy]

Berk posted: "it was my understanding that a setback was for geater performance not to add leaks or get handhole out of boat, those are just bonuses. by the way my boat leaks like a SOB, but luckily i have whats called a "bilge pump"
Yes, setback is for performance. And most of us if not all run bilge pumps. Even Budlight. :D
Adding leaks not a bonus, handhole out can be. But the decision on how far to setback, in my opinion, is a balance between performance and function. And to me (lake boater not racer), performance takes second place to a leaking transom from stress cracks. I run a lake jet and I didn't want to compromise the transom. So I had Jack setback my pump to a point just short of the intake breaking the transom. About 3 inches setback. No leaks. Not enough to clear the handhole cover, but I epoxied my HH long before setback so HH access not an issue to me. And I haven't needed it.
So I'm saying for the lake jetter considering setback, setback your pump to gain performance without compromising the hull. Then if you're concerned about cleanout, choose an adaptor. But consider how often you really need to cleanout? If your intake's already compromised the transom, then you may deal with stress cracks and possible leaks. Sorry it's a done deal end of story.
For racers? Who cares about a leak? Setback to exteme if you wish.
I've jetted from 1985 to 2005 (20 years) without needing or removing the HH cover. That with two different jets and skiing and on many different lakes....some cleaner than others. And as I posted earlier, I've cleared a rock from the impeller at night by sticking my hand up the intake (past a v-blocker loader) no big deal. Just hold your breath. I've also cut a ski rope from the intake side...during the day of course.
jer

[HammerDown]

And other jetters with a setback pump still don't have their handhole clear the transom or transom adaptor. And still other jetters considering setback don't want to break their transom with the intake flange and risk leak just to get the handhole outside the transom. So I guess to answer your question, there's a couple reasons "why not"
jer
There's always an option...pumps not busted (all) the way out the back...and hand hole isn't all the way out either. I made the custom Transom adapter.

[flat broke]

Hammer,
Did you do the setback by using the plate of al infront of the revised intake location like Jack does? I can't tell from your pic but does the intake break through the bottom of the transome where it meets the hull? I know you do some lake boating so I'm guessing you see your fare share of chop. How's the setup holding up? Feel free to post more pics, or if you documented the setback, start another thread on that!!
Chris

[HammerDown]

Hammer,
Did you do the setback by using the plate of al infront of the revised intake location like Jack does? I can't tell from your pic but does the intake break through the bottom of the transome where it meets the hull? I know you do some lake boating so I'm guessing you see your fare share of chop. How's the setup holding up? Feel free to post more pics, or if you documented the setback, start another thread on that!!
Chris
Chris, yes I bolted and epoxy a plate to the front of the intake...I have several pics. I need to resize them and post. On a new thread.

[flat broke]

Thanks,
That would be greatly appreciated!
Chris

[Sanger D]

I,m telling ya the only way to cure that hole problem is to put your ass in a V DRIVE :rollside: get yourself a gear box to play with instead of a sushi maker,its the only way you will truelly be happy :D

[LVjetboy]

So let us know when you play with your gear box to the scary level. Then maybe you'll be truly happy? Until then, go back to your v-drive forum or be spanked like a little Catholic school girl here. 80 mph v-drive whoa! Spooky. :eek:
:D :D :D
jer

[Unchained]

I'm telling ya, No one wants,
ill handling and barely in control
" They're suicide machines"
" I got tossed out twice and then I got rid of it"
" I could never go out boating in the middle of the day "
"My nuts won't be the same for a week"
.
Why do you think old flatbottoms can be bought so cheap??
ill handling and barely in control
" They're suicide machines"
" I got tossed out twice and then I got rid of it"
" I could never go out boating in the middle of the day "
"My nuts won't be the same for a week"
Why so you think their popularity has declined for the past 20 years?
ill handling and barely in control
" They're suicide machines"
" I got tossed out twice and then I got rid of it"
" I could never go out boating in the middle of the day "
"My nuts won't be the same for a week"

[Cs19]

I,m telling ya the only way to cure that hole problem is to put your ass in a V DRIVE :rollside: get yourself a gear box to play with instead of a sushi maker,its the only way you will truelly be happy :D
Sanger D, Take a hike.
I still dont consider the hand hole deal a "problem".

[schiada96]

Sanger D, Take a hike.
I still dont consider the hand hole deal a "problem".
It might be! How many boats have sunk due to the cover comming off? And why the need for a backup plate if it's not a problem?

[Sanger D]

you know, its like you guys can,t handle the fact that a V DRIVE is just more better!!!O,K,O,K,so you got a 10K$ plus motor in your super light lay up just so you can reach a respectable speed,and as far as safety, you guys are kidding yourselves!!!!a jet is safer at speeds around 50 to 65,after that your frickin in denial!!! :confused: just watch a video called BAD BOATS and educate yourself on just how SAFE your jet really is.OH YA, fly your gullwing?looks like a real good handling boat!! :rolleyes: I would LOVE to see ANY of your boats run 80 plus in a 8 to 9 hund. pound hull with a 500 hp motor and a single carb,CAN,T BE DONE and that just pisses you off!!! :yuk: you probably can,t even stand on the bow of your potatoe chip hah?JETS are family boats ,thats why they consider them safe,cause its only rated at water skiing speeds,old GOOD condition flats are sky rocketing in price,!!not even close to being cheap,if you can get em so cheap,you should be making good money by now !! :idea: keep your big exspencive HP motors and throw some weight in that canoe to make the ratio even and YOU would,nt get out of your own way :rollside: my flatty will handle twice the rough water your jet ever thuoght of takin,thats a FACT!!!!those CP,S would be in peices :crossx:

[cyclone]

my solution: the hand hole cover is half in the boat half out. I cut a flat two-piece adapter for the transom and welded a three-piece half-moon recess that bolts to it to seal the hand hole port and suction housing to it. Everything is siliconed together and it doesnt leak at all. Not that hard to fab so you guys should be able to do it. Superdave cut the aluminum for me and I used by buddies tig welder to weld the aluminum recess together.

[flat broke]

you know, its like you guys can,t handle the fact that a V DRIVE is just more better!!!O,K,O,K,so you got a 10K$ plus motor in your super light lay up just so you can reach a respectable speed,and as far as safety, you guys are kidding yourselves!!!!a jet is safer at speeds around 50 to 65,after that your frickin in denial!!! :confused: just watch a video called BAD BOATS and educate yourself on just how SAFE your jet really is.OH YA, fly your gullwing?looks like a real good handling boat!! :rolleyes: I would LOVE to see ANY of your boats run 80 plus in a 8 to 9 hund. pound hull with a 500 hp motor and a single carb,CAN,T BE DONE and that just pisses you off!!! :yuk: you probably can,t even stand on the bow of your potatoe chip hah?JETS are family boats ,thats why they consider them safe,cause its only rated at water skiing speeds,old GOOD condition flats are sky rocketing in price,!!not even close to being cheap,if you can get em so cheap,you should be making good money by now !! :idea: keep your big exspencive HP motors and throw some weight in that canoe to make the ratio even and YOU would,nt get out of your own way :rollside: my flatty will handle twice the rough water your jet ever thuoght of takin,thats a FACT!!!!those CP,S would be in peices :crossx:
Dude, thanks for the motivation.
I was only hoping to get my jet powered spectra 20 up to 80-85mph, but with your lovely comments, I think I'll work a little harder and see if I can pick up just a few more MPH. That way I can actually pass you in your bucking bronco, "scary fast" v-drive while riding in relative comfort in my overweight POS jetboat daycruiser. Oh and for reference, you could probably lay your bare hull on my deck and it woudn't so much as flex, so it aint no potato chip. And as far as rough water, I'll own your ass like Michael Jackson on an 8 year old from havi springs to Park Moabi. And I know for certain I can do that how the boat sits on the trailer right now. Step off and go blow the smoke elsewhere.

[Aluminum Squirt]

Dear Sanger D.,
My jet is not a family boat, me and my friends could do jumping jacks on the bow if we wanted, I only have 355HP, and if you think your V drive can handle "rough" water, I'll race you up Shanghai Bend anytime, I'll even pull a couple of spark plug wires if you want. My boat is getting right around 80 MPH and is not unsafe at any speed between 0 and 80, it even goes straight if I turn the ignition off at speed. Its not even unsafe when I'm pounding through a class III or better rapid. I love all boats and grew up skiing behind a whacker and a V-drive, I even own a prop boat. I don't dislike you, just go back to the V-drive forum or shut your hole and hang out here and learn a thing or two-Aluminum Squirt

[moneysucker]

Dude your a trip and a very angry person, is there something I can do to help you??
Now that there is funny, I don't care who you are. LOL
Now as far as the whole hand hole issue is concerned, It is not a problem. How many boats have broken a hand hole cover or blown one off in the last 25 years? I am guessinf the average age on a berkley pump and hand hole cover is conservatively 15 years old along with the 2 little bolts that have been rusting on there for the last 15 years when every time you take them off, and expose fresh metal to air and moisture helps to accelerate oxidation. If everyone who ever had a drive shaft u joint fail after 15 years of use and little or no maintenance posted on a thread at the same time we would think we had some kind of epidemic. These are old parts and there are a lot of jets on the water. This is not an emergency. Remember last year when the suction housing broke and everyone reinvented the wheel trying to cure that "problem." No one did any of those ideas because it was a freak thing not a wide spread defect.

[bottom feeder]

you know, its like you guys can,t handle the fact that a V DRIVE is just more better!!!O,K,O,K,so you got a 10K$ plus motor in your super light lay up just so you can reach a respectable speed,and as far as safety, you guys are kidding yourselves!!!!a jet is safer at speeds around 50 to 65,after that your frickin in denial!!! :confused: just watch a video called BAD BOATS and educate yourself on just how SAFE your jet really is.OH YA, fly your gullwing?looks like a real good handling boat!! :rolleyes: I would LOVE to see ANY of your boats run 80 plus in a 8 to 9 hund. pound hull with a 500 hp motor and a single carb,CAN,T BE DONE and that just pisses you off!!! :yuk: you probably can,t even stand on the bow of your potatoe chip hah?JETS are family boats ,thats why they consider them safe,cause its only rated at water skiing speeds,old GOOD condition flats are sky rocketing in price,!!not even close to being cheap,if you can get em so cheap,you should be making good money by now !! :idea: keep your big exspencive HP motors and throw some weight in that canoe to make the ratio even and YOU would,nt get out of your own way :rollside: my flatty will handle twice the rough water your jet ever thuoght of takin,thats a FACT!!!!those CP,S would be in peices :crossx:
I will be in your neck of the woods this summer, Maby we can hook up. You seem like a nice guy thats just a bit confused. :D

[wsuwrhr]

I'll own your ass like Michael Jackson on an 8 year old
I don't care WHAT the subject matter is, that is DAMN funny.
Brian

[berk]

Now that there is funny, I don't care who you are. LOL
Now as far as the whole hand hole issue is concerned, It is not a problem. How many boats have broken a hand hole cover or blown one off in the last 25 years? I am guessinf the average age on a berkley pump and hand hole cover is conservatively 15 years old along with the 2 little bolts that have been rusting on there for the last 15 years when every time you take them off, and expose fresh metal to air and moisture helps to accelerate oxidation. If everyone who ever had a drive shaft u joint fail after 15 years of use and little or no maintenance posted on a thread at the same time we would think we had some kind of epidemic. These are old parts and there are a lot of jets on the water. This is not an emergency. Remember last year when the suction housing broke and everyone reinvented the wheel trying to cure that "problem." No one did any of those ideas because it was a freak thing not a wide spread defect.
youre missing the basis of this post, its not that its common problem, its that its a catastrophic problem. true neglected drivelines fail all the time, how many trucks end up at the bottom of the lake as a result? -none. being 130' down makes a bigger problem than a busted u-joint on the side of the road. what i would like to see is data on the broken covers, like how muchh hp these boats had.

[flat broke]

youre missing the basis of this post, its not that its common problem, its that its a catastrophic problem. true neglected drivelines fail all the time, how many trucks end up at the bottom of the lake as a result? -none. being 130' down makes a bigger problem than a busted u-joint on the side of the road. what i would like to see is data on the broken covers, like how muchh hp these boats had.
Of the 2 I know from last year, one had 475-500, the other had over 800. The 475 was in a v bottom with conservative pump setup, the 800 was in a tunnel with setback pump and a more race orriented setup. The two boats are similar in the fact that they have big block motors, and over the transom headers, but that's where the similarities end. I'd go out on a limb and say that HP has very little to do with the cause of the failure.
Chris

[Sanger D]

you guys crack me up,don,t be so danm gulible!!!!your too easy :cry:someones always got a faster boat,no matter how its propelled!.I love commin over here and razzin,you make it too easy,Icame over here once to help someone sincerely and got drilled for it,helping a fellow boater I did,nt even know and fully was insulted,but hey,its cool, the guy prob had,nt been laid in a while,so results were wow, jet boat owners seem like real assholes cause all you guys backed this dudes play just cause you are all jet owners,I thought that was pretty ignorant and a shitty way to treat someone you did,nt even know,I gotta tell you,I could care less what kind of boat you own or don,t own,if YOU like it,thats good enough for me,as far as being a jerk? not likely,I remember loaning tools AND parts to some guys at FBC so they could get there boat back in the water and never even got so much as a thank you,THAT sucks ,so theres some guys who are all right in my book like todd and a couple more I met there but C,MON,!!wsa that ANYWAY to treat someone whose helping you?I would hope it wasn,t JUST because I have a V DRIVE,thuogh I do understand some guys are like that.JUST BE F#@!@$KIN CAREFUL OUT THERE IN WHAT EVER YOUR DRIVING, thats all I ask,so see,I do have reason for the way I kinda feel about THE JET BOAT SIDE,and might be inclined not to be so helpful in the future but I prob. would because thats MY nature,so don,t be too prideful and if you ever need something or help at a function,dont hesitate to ask,just don,t be a ungreatful asshole and show someone some respect for giving you a hand instead of giving them shit. :) so lets race and have a good time ,maybe chalk one up for the V DRIVERS or maybe chalk one for the jetters, either way lets have fun and try not to kill ourselves huh!!!,last FBC was a frickin blast, saw some pretty impressive jets and some flattys too,hope this year its even better.OH,by the way I,m not goin anywhere!! :rollside:

[Jeanyus]

you guys crack me up,don,t be so danm gulible!!!!your too easy :cry:someones always got a faster boat,no matter how its propelled!.I love commin over here and razzin,you make it too easy,Icame over here once to help someone sincerely and got drilled for it,helping a fellow boater I did,nt even know and fully was insulted,but hey,its cool, the guy prob had,nt been laid in a while,so results were wow, jet boat owners seem like real assholes cause all you guys backed this dudes play just cause you are all jet owners,I thought that was pretty ignorant and a shitty way to treat someone you did,nt even know,I gotta tell you,I could care less what kind of boat you own or don,t own,if YOU like it,thats good enough for me,as far as being a jerk? not likely,I remember loaning tools AND parts to some guys at FBC so they could get there boat back in the water and never even got so much as a thank you,THAT sucks ,so theres some guys who are all right in my book like todd and a couple more I met there but C,MON,!!wsa that ANYWAY to treat someone whose helping you?I would hope it wasn,t JUST because I have a V DRIVE,thuogh I do understand some guys are like that.JUST BE F#@!@$KIN CAREFUL OUT THERE IN WHAT EVER YOUR DRIVING, thats all I ask,so see,I do have reason for the way I kinda feel about THE JET BOAT SIDE,and might be inclined not to be so helpful in the future but I prob. would because thats MY nature,so don,t be too prideful and if you ever need something or help at a function,dont hesitate to ask,just don,t be a ungreatful asshole and show someone some respect for giving you a hand instead of giving them shit. :) so lets race and have a good time ,maybe chalk one up for the V DRIVERS or maybe chalk one for the jetters, either way lets have fun and try not to kill ourselves huh!!!,last FBC was a frickin blast, saw some pretty impressive jets and some flattys too,hope this year its even better.OH,by the way I,m not goin anywhere!! :rollside:
Why don't you go stand on the bow of your boat. ;)

[flat broke]

Sanger D,
Sorry to hear of your experience with some ungratefull asshole who just happened to own a jet. I think a lot of us on here have been in your situation or worse. Crap, I've loaned out tools to people at the Beach Bash and didn't even get them back. I don't go around saying that owners of x propulsion type are arseholes, I just know that getting burned is part of helping people out. Sad but true.
I wasn't rallying around anyone else's assault. You posted up some shit about how baddass and driveable your boat was, and used that as an argument (whether in jest or not) to support your ideas about jet boats. I merely posted a rebutal to the fact illustrating the flaws in your argument ;) I'm assuming you were at the 2nd FBC cause I only saw one V-driver at the 1st one, but I'll be happy to indulge you in a little 99 bannanas, or whatever else is floating around that weekend, and shoot the shit with ya. In many instances there is a big difference between whats posted on these boards and the peronalities you'll meet at the river.
Chris

[berk]

Of the 2 I know from last year, one had 475-500, the other had over 800. The 475 was in a v bottom with conservative pump setup, the 800 was in a tunnel with setback pump and a more race orriented setup. The two boats are similar in the fact that they have big block motors, and over the transom headers, but that's where the similarities end. I'd go out on a limb and say that HP has very little to do with the cause of the failure.
Chris
well that would be going out on a limb since in my opinion 500hp is kindof a huge amount of force and 800 is surely more than the pumps were designed for. ummm DUDE! 800 hp? you dont think that is a possible cause for the blowout?

[waterwitch]

Sanger D,
In many instances there is a big difference between whats posted on these boards and the peronalities you'll meet at the river.
Chris
Well that was the best statement in the
5 pages of this thread.
Can't wait till this summer.... and everyone
is just shootin' the shit, drinkin' a beer, and it
just doesn't matter what kind of boat you have!!
At the FBC 3 all boaters are welcome in our camp!! (As long as
you drink Coor Light :D ) Ok Ok... Bud drinkers are
welcome to.....

[cyclone]

well that would be going out on a limb since in my opinion 500hp is kindof a huge amount of force and 800 is surely more than the pumps were designed for. ummm DUDE! 800 hp? you dont think that is a possible cause for the blowout?
I'm no expert, but i think the reason we are starting to see failures in jet pumps lately is because these are cast parts (read really pourous (sp?), which have been in service for many years. Take into account that core shift is a fairly common factor in older Berkeley suction housings and the like and its not that hard to imagine that 20 years down the road stuff starts to crack after its been shock loaded by jumping the boat in and out of the water repeatedly. We all need to just pay more attention to our hardware and inspect it frequently, especially if going for higher speeds. I'm not saying everyone should go out and purchase a magnaflux kit to inspect for cracks, but at the very least a visual inspection should be performed each time you take the boat out. It could mean the difference between sinking your boat or worse yet, getting tossed out of it and hurt real bad.

[flat broke]

well that would be going out on a limb since in my opinion 500hp is kindof a huge amount of force and 800 is surely more than the pumps were designed for. ummm DUDE! 800 hp? you dont think that is a possible cause for the blowout?
You should do a little research on how much HP most the guys in here are running. Plenty of brand new open bown family type squirtboats running around with 450hp off the showroom floor. You noticed that I stated between 475 and 500. Thats giving Dan the benefit of the doubt on his build. Then look at all the modded stuff running around and I'd bet you'd be looking at an average hp level of around 475-500 in the "***boat" jet community. And HP has little to do with the amount of pressure on the suction side of the pump. Underwater hardware, impeller type/size and cavitation in the suction housing would be much bigger issues than the color, shape, size, or hp of the motor in front of the pump.
Since you're basically calling me out, I'll shoot back with my theory. As stated above, HP has less effect on the aquadynamics inside the suction housing than the hardware on the pump. I think the bigger issue is actually the manufacturing of the miscellaneous pump components themselves. There have been cracked suction housings, broken hand hole covers, and I have seen more thanva couple bowls with EXTREMELY porous castings. The companies that made this stuff aren't General Motors. They're small foundries and their process control isn't the greatest. It is far more likely that the handhole covers in question are plain ol manufacturing defects. A little extra porosity, an incorrectly tightened bolt, maybe a part that had been dropped in the past, and you have the ingredients for the failures that we've seen.
The reason I used the two boats that I did for the illsutration is because Dan's Southwind is your average river/lake boat, while Chris' Daytona is the upper echelon of peformance for a race/river use boat. This illustrates that its not nescesarily the pump setup, or the HP of the motor, but more than likely the composition of the part to begin with.
You're entitled to your opinion on this matter, but remember that YOU asked for input, and when someone with a very good understanding of the dynamics involved gave you a response/opinion, YOU then objected because it didn't agree with your speculation. Now the question is truly moot because Tim's handhole cover didn't even sink the boat. So is this still the big issue with "catastrophic" repercussions and all the urgency it had to you before?
Don't ask for input then shoot it down because it doesn't jive with your speculation.
Chris

[berk]

You should do a little research on how much HP most the guys in here are running. Plenty of brand new open bown family type squirtboats running around with 450hp off the showroom floor. You noticed that I stated between 475 and 500. Thats giving Dan the benefit of the doubt on his build. Then look at all the modded stuff running around and I'd bet you'd be looking at an average hp level of around 475-500 in the "***boat" jet community. And HP has little to do with the amount of pressure on the suction side of the pump. Underwater hardware, impeller type/size and cavitation in the suction housing would be much bigger issues than the color, shape, size, or hp of the motor in front of the pump.
Since you're basically calling me out, I'll shoot back with my theory. As stated above, HP has less effect on the aquadynamics inside the suction housing than the hardware on the pump. I think the bigger issue is actually the manufacturing of the miscellaneous pump components themselves. There have been cracked suction housings, broken hand hole covers, and I have seen more thanva couple bowls with EXTREMELY porous castings. The companies that made this stuff aren't General Motors. They're small foundries and their process control isn't the greatest. It is far more likely that the handhole covers in question are plain ol manufacturing defects. A little extra porosity, an incorrectly tightened bolt, maybe a part that had been dropped in the past, and you have the ingredients for the failures that we've seen.
The reason I used the two boats that I did for the illsutration is because Dan's Southwind is your average river/lake boat, while Chris' Daytona is the upper echelon of peformance for a race/river use boat. This illustrates that its not nescesarily the pump setup, or the HP of the motor, but more than likely the composition of the part to begin with.
You're entitled to your opinion on this matter, but remember that YOU asked for input, and when someone with a very good understanding of the dynamics involved gave you a response/opinion, YOU then objected because it didn't agree with your speculation. Now the question is truly moot because Tim's handhole cover didn't even sink the boat. So is this still the big issue with "catastrophic" repercussions and all the urgency it had to you before?
Don't ask for input then shoot it down because it doesn't jive with your speculation.
Chris
whatever you dont have to be a dik. i was just saying a gathering of information on several boats going under from pump failure, handhole or otherwise, might help us understand what factors do or dont contribute. i wasnt calling you out, dont be so sensitive. :argue:

[moneysucker]

The pressure at the handhole ia controled by the speed of the boat and the hardware loading the the pump. Keep in mind that the clean out is not on the high pressure side at the back side of the impellar. I am sticking with the porosity factor of the cast aluminum and the core shift possibility. Lack of maintenence and abuse (dropping) can have an affect on these parts as well. I just don't see this as a major problem. that is all. I do agree that a broken drive shaft, or a broken A arm won't usually end up with your car 120' under water but usually this type of thing ends up resulting in an accident, injury or death. Parts fail due to many factors and the hand hole is one that may or may not fail epoxied or not. As far as FBC, I will be the one in the black SWDT named Money $ucker. I will have a few spare coors light on hand as well. Supply is limited so it will be on a first come first served basis. I don't have much room in the boat for a cooler.

[berk]

cold it be loaders over pressurizing the pump? that might explain why i havent heard of this in fishing boats and marathon boats , they use rock grates and spoons. i checked the berkeley site and it says "500 hp max with aluminum peller and UNLIMITED hp with ss".

[Aluminum Squirt]

Hey Berk, I was thinking the same thing. I've never seen a sprint/marathon boat blow off a hand hole cover and there are quite a few guys running 800+ HP. Additionally you would think the extra stress of white water would make all of the components suffer and there would be more failures than a lake boat-Aluminum Squirt

[LVjetboy]

"Parts fail due to many factors and the hand hole is one that may or may not fail epoxied or not."
Sounds good about many factors...except...have you heard of any epoxied hand holes that failed? So "epoxied or not" may not be accurate.
Berk posted: "i checked the berkeley site and it says "500 hp max with aluminum peller and UNLIMITED hp with ss"
I also checked, "The stainless steel impeller has a minimum rating of 500 hp and up."
Not exactly unlimited but not specific either.
Berk, consider impeller material or power rating has nothing to do with the intake or hand hole allowable stress.
jer

[Squirtin Thunder]

Well that was the best statement in the
5 pages of this thread.
Can't wait till this summer.... and everyone
is just shootin' the shit, drinkin' a beer, and it
just doesn't matter what kind of boat you have!!
At the FBC 3 all boaters are welcome in our camp!! (As long as
you drink Coor Light :D ) Ok Ok... Bud drinkers are
welcome to.....
So that means I can't come by. Dammmmm !!!!
Being a non drinker sure has its costs.
Jim

[berk]

"Parts fail due to many factors and the hand hole is one that may or may not fail epoxied or not."
Sounds good about many factors...except...have you heard of any epoxied hand holes that failed? So "epoxied or not" may not be accurate.
Berk posted: "i checked the berkeley site and it says "500 hp max with aluminum peller and UNLIMITED hp with ss"
I also checked, "The stainless steel impeller has a minimum rating of 500 hp and up."
Not exactly unlimited but not specific either.
Berk, consider impeller material or power rating has nothing to do with the intake or hand hole allowable stress.
jer
i may not be the expert you are but i can say with confidence that any time you add power, you are adding stress to parts that are there. stuff breaks and when power is increased even more stuff breaks. i dont care if it floats, flys or f*cks, this will alwas be true.

[flat broke]

i may not be the expert you are but i can say with confidence that any time you add power, you are adding stress to parts that are there. stuff breaks and when power is increased even more stuff breaks. i dont care if it floats, flys or f*cks, this will alwas be true.
Only if the stuff wasn't built to handle the power in the first place. My forged crank would do just fine in a 300hp motor. If you ran the same crank in say an 800hp motor, gues what, it will last just as long. Power doesn't automatically reduce the service life of parts. The incorrect mix of parts and applications kills parts.
I think this had been covered before in another post, but by epoxying the hand hole cover to the suction housing you are greatly improving the distribution of the stresses on the part because now you have included the entire surface area joined to the suction housing with epoxy. This would greatly reduce stresses normally chanelled to the two bolt flanges on the top of the cover. Take it a step further. If a stock cover has worked without failure in MANY 600+HP motors, one might say that the part and design are adequate for such applications. By reducing the stress on the failure prone areas of the part, you not only make the part even safer to run at the same 600HP level, but you also increase the amount of HP the part can stand up to.
Chris

[berk]

Only if the stuff wasn't built to handle the power in the first place. My forged crank would do just fine in a 300hp motor. If you ran the same crank in say an 800hp motor, gues what, it will last just as long. Power doesn't automatically reduce the service life of parts. The incorrect mix of parts and applications kills parts.
I think this had been covered before in another post, but by epoxying the hand hole cover to the suction housing you are greatly improving the distribution of the stresses on the part because now you have included the entire surface area joined to the suction housing with epoxy. This would greatly reduce stresses normally chanelled to the two bolt flanges on the top of the cover. Take it a step further. If a stock cover has worked without failure in MANY 600+HP motors, one might say that the part and design are adequate for such applications. By reducing the stress on the failure prone areas of the part, you not only make the part even safer to run at the same 600HP level, but you also increase the amount of HP the part can stand up to.
Chris
ok whatever

[flat broke]

ok whatever
No, not "whatever". Once again, if any idea doesn't agree with your supposition, you dismiss it. Believe it or not, these boards are dripping with knowledge. You have people with education and carreer backgrounds you wouldn't believe applying the knowledge gained through their education or proffession to our/their silly little jetboats. If one comes here with an open mind and his/her B.S. filter properly adjusted, he/she can walk away with quite a bit of knowledge... but you have to have an open mind and not put your own theories above reproach. Don't be so quick to dismiss credible input from people who just might know what the hell they are talking about. :hammerhea
And if it were me, I don't think I'd be laying down the "ok whatever" type attitude when you're giving advice like you did in this thread (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65342) You can call me pissy, sensitive, a dick, an a$$hole, or whatever else you want, cause I really don't give a phuck. ;)
Chris

[berk]

No, not "whatever". Once again, if any idea doesn't agree with your supposition, you dismiss it. Believe it or not, these boards are dripping with knowledge. You have people with education and carreer backgrounds you wouldn't believe applying the knowledge gained through their education or proffession to our/their silly little jetboats. If one comes here with an open mind and his/her B.S. filter properly adjusted, he/she can walk away with quite a bit of knowledge... but you have to have an open mind and not put your own theories above reproach. Don't be so quick to dismiss credible input from people who just might know what the hell they are talking about. :hammerhea
And if it were me, I don't think I'd be laying down the "ok whatever" type attitude when you're giving advice like you did in this thread (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65342) You can call me pissy, sensitive, a dick, an a$$hole, or whatever else you want, cause I really don't give a phuck. ;)
Chris
how does this relate to boats?

[moneysucker]

how does this relate to boats?
I have learned a lot from these boards and it pays to listen and pick your battles. I won't fight one I will lose. Especially in public. Just my 20 pesos ;)

[Cs19]

these boards are dripping with knowledge. You have people with education and carreer backgrounds you wouldn't believe applying the knowledge gained through their education or proffession to our/their silly little jetboats. If one comes here with an open mind and his/her B.S. filter properly adjusted, he/she can walk away with quite a bit of knowledge... Chris
What Chris posted above is right on the money.
If your here for the popularity contest, you can do that too, but theres ALOT of quality info floating around here, wether you take it in or not, is your choice.

[flat broke]

how does this relate to boats?
Simple. This whole forum is a medium with which you can learn a great deal about your boat, how to set it up, how to repair it, how to improve its performance, so on and so forth. If these things interest you, it would behoove you to keep an open mind and not discourage, ignore, or discredit the exchange of factual data. In this respect it relates directly to your boat.
But if you view this forum as nothing more than a social outlet, then you are right; my post doesn't relate to boats in the capacity in which you are interested in them.
The irony of the situation is that you're asking me for an answer on relativity that only you can provide for yourself ;)
Chris

[berk]

Simple. This whole forum is a medium with which you can learn a great deal about your boat, how to set it up, how to repair it, how to improve its performance, so on and so forth. If these things interest you, it would behoove you to keep an open mind and not discourage, ignore, or discredit the exchange of factual data. In this respect it relates directly to your boat.
But if you view this forum as nothing more than a social outlet, then you are right; my post doesn't relate to boats in the capacity in which you are interested in them.
The irony of the situation is that you're asking me for an answer on relativity that only you can provide for yourself ;)
Chris
haha! touche-douche! i was just busting your balls. i was really impressed with your chroming info and i do value the forum in general. im just one of those abbrasive sonsofbitches, dont take it personal, just TAKE IT!
hey you didnt like my advice in that other thread? how long did you research my posts to find that one?

[flat broke]

haha! touche-douche! i was just busting your balls. i was really impressed with your chroming info and i do value the forum in general. im just one of those abbrasive sonsofbitches, dont take it personal, just TAKE IT!
hey you didnt like my advice in that other thread? how long did you research my posts to find that one?
Actually, I was doing research on glasswork in general for the setback I'll be doing on the Spectra. I saw your post, the timing was perfect and I couldn't restrain myself ;)
Chris