water pressure regulator

[ezstriper]

who has the best water regulator at a reasnable cost to maintain realistic water pressure w/ B/B chevy and ot headers, Thanks Rob...

[Vern S]

Not certain about the best, but this is what I purchased at the advise of one of the most respected in the jetboat business. I believe I purchased the 3/4 inch version. Works great, no issues.
Vern
http://www.plumbingproducts.com/waterpressureregulators.html

[HammerDown]

:idea:
"We do not recommend using these regulators for applications less than 20psi. If you need your pressure lower than 20psi then we would recommend contacting a regulator manufacturer for your specific requirements."
wonder why?

[Duane HTP]

Use a water bypass valve, NOT a pressure regulator. There is a difference. Much simpler to plumb and much more reliable. (I know, I know, regulators have been used with good results on some boats). Bypass valves do the job BETTER! And the bypass outlet needs to be at least 3/4". The ones that some others sell are only 1/2", or 3/8", and that's not big enough for a lot of boat applications.

[78Southwind]

Does anyone want to express their opinions (the good the bad and the ugly) about these regulators?
Watts Regulator (http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf-files/is-sheets/regulator/IS-IR56-H560G.pdf#search='watts%20no.%20h560g')

[jim@pj]

If you plumb your engine properly you may not have a pressure problem, in most cases. I have not had a problem with the set up I use but that does not mean it is perfect in every case. But I believe that it works fine on the average jet boat. The best way to get your answer is to put a pressure gauge on your engine and see what you've got and go from there. The valves I use dump most of the pressure but not all of the pressure. I try to shoot for around 15-25 lbs block pressure. Jim
performancejet.com

[HBjet]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20regulator.jpg
http://www.grainger.com/images/products/6LM11.JPG
Regulator (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1612840040&ccitem=)
I have used this regulator for 4 years now. Never had an over heating problem, or a problem with too much PSI. At WOT my block is at 28 PSI. When running, my motor needs to stay cooler then most and in the hot desert summer sun, my motor runs a 125 degrees. WOT for 10-15 seconds it jumps to 140 at the end of the run, and soon after comes back to 125. You don't want to use a regulator to control temps though... you want to use a valve on the exit line to do that.
Good luck with what you choose... just stating this has worked for me and everyone I know who has used it.
HBjet

[Jordy]

Good luck with what you choose... just stating this has worked for me and everyone I know who has used it.
HBjet
I've had it on my jet for 3 years now and never had a problem with it. I changed over to the banderlog valve before last season and it's even better now. My boat runs 150 all the time. I set it up one time and haven't had to mess with it since that time. No water in the oil, no worries. :D

[Havasu Hangin']

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20regulator.jpg
HBjet- I think you'll get better results with that bilge pump if you hook up a hose and dump the water out of the boat...
:D

[HammerDown]

If you plumb your engine properly you may not have a pressure problem, in most cases. I have not had a problem with the set up I use but that does not mean it is perfect in every case. But I believe that it works fine on the average jet boat. The best way to get your answer is to put a pressure gauge on your engine and see what you've got and go from there. The valves I use dump most of the pressure but not all of the pressure. I try to shoot for around 15-25 lbs block pressure. Jim
performancejet.com
Well I guess I'm good to go...one line and 2 dumps out keeps my psi right around 11-15. And the Rex t-stat 160-170 water temp.
also thenks Duane for your feedback.

[Rexone]

I've always preferred the bypass valve method as opposed to the regulator. Depending on the regulator, flow could be an issue, opportunity for foriegn objects to plug it up (weeds, sticks, etc) too, not that that can happen with bypass valve too but at least if it plugs up you still have water to the motor.
Some areas have lots of weeds and crap, others don't.

[HBjet]

HBjet- I think you'll get better results with that bilge pump if you hook up a hose and dump the water out of the boat...
:D
I'm aware of that.... and you know, I think you said the same thing about 2 years ago when I put up that photo! Glad your still here to keep me in check!
HBjet :shift:

[HBjet]

I've always preferred the bypass valve method as opposed to the regulator. Depending on the regulator, flow could be an issue, opportunity for foriegn objects to plug it up (weeds, sticks, etc) too, not that that can happen with bypass valve too but at least if it plugs up you still have water to the motor.
Some areas have lots of weeds and crap, others don't.
The regulator I use (as well as Jordy) have a screen that is large enough to let sand through, but hold back grass and other objects. If you boat in deep water, you should have to worry about it. If you boat in shallow water like I do, its good to check it every few trips out. Each time I do, there is little if anything stuck against it.
HBjet

[Havasu Hangin']

Glad your still here to keep me in check!
When there's something that I can help from my puny knowledge base...I am here for you.
:D

[78Southwind]

I've always preferred the bypass valve method as opposed to the regulator. Depending on the regulator, flow could be an issue, opportunity for foriegn objects to plug it up (weeds, sticks, etc) too, not that that can happen with bypass valve too but at least if it plugs up you still have water to the motor.
Some areas have lots of weeds and crap, others don't.
I currently have a gate valve that comes directly off of the pump. The handle was removed before I bought the boat but I am wondering if the water pressure is sufficient in the block. I currently don't have any water in oil issues but I am also wondering if that will change once I increase the HP of my current engine. Before buying a bypass valve or water regulator I would like to monitor the water pressure in the block. Does Rex or anyother company carry a pressure gauge that I could install on my intake by removing one of my pipe plugs? I believe the pipe plugs are 3/8 or 1/2.
Thanks,
Jerry

[Duane HTP]

You can go to your local hardware store and get a fairly inexpensive water system guage and use a reducer bushing to make it fit your manifold. 100 lb guage is big enough, because if it ever goes above 30lb, you know for sure that you have a problem.

[78Southwind]

You can go to your local hardware store and get a fairly inexpensive water system guage and use a reducer bushing to make it fit your manifold. 100 lb guage is big enough, because if it ever goes above 30lb, you know for sure that you have a problem.
Don't really know what this looks like but it should work.
Water Pressure Gauge (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0501455644.1106441461@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdeadddjglkdgecgelceffdfgidgkk.0&MID=9876)
Ez-Flo
100 PSI Water Pressure Test Gauge
Model 45171
Internet Catalog #153050
Mini Pressure Gauge (http://www.rexmar.com/page199.html)

[clownpuncher]

Here's a pic of mine installed by Paul Pfaff. Looks similar to some I've seen. Engine was running a little warm the past trip so I may have to look for some debris in there. I usually run shallow water, rarely in Havasu. You can see the regulator on just off-center to port, with the stainless hose.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/536otr_engine_2-med.jpg

[jim@pj]

You have all covered the bases pretty good on this subject. Alot of good info here. If somebody is still looking for more discussion or ideas on this subject go to my web site at www.performancejet.com. Go to the bottom of the home page and click on tech talk. I wrote an article last month that deals with the subject of engine cooling, problems and solutions. Hope it helps. Jim

[ezstriper]

Thanks Guys for all the input, sounds like a bypass is for me, I installed a gauge and a regulator bought locally end of last season, never could get it to work right, when I got the psi correct @ decent cruise speed, would have no psi at low speed, that was just one of the issues I was dealing with on my setup on a new(for me) boat, you guys have been great, Rob...

[Ken F]

Jim,
Great article! I really hope that some of the people offering advice here read the article and see where their advice was a little erroneous.
Thanks for sharing!
Ken F

[Ol Yeller]

These stainless filled gauges from Northern Hydraulics were the ticket for me. I put a 40lb om my intake and a 15lb on my fuel line. Looks and work awesome. The one on thie intake is on an extension and can be read at WOT from the drivers seat. Adjusted my intake gate valve to be at 15lbs at WOT. Engine stays at 150 degrees all the time.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatDsp?storeId=6970&N=448828+448875

[bp]

Jim,
Great article! I really hope that some of the people offering advice here read the article and see where their advice was a little erroneous.
Thanks for sharing!
Ken F
i read this thread, and i think nah, i won't i won't, don't don't. won't. it's only about the millionth cooling thread. same opinions, maybe a few different sources. and then i see this little bs zinger. and i think nah, not gonna. but, of course, i must.
first, there is absolutely no reason to try and achieve a water temperature guage reading in a jet boat of 160-180 degrees. it is an open system; water comes from the lake river at 50-80 degrees, and exits directly back to the source. it's not a closed system like in a car. the significant delta is not giving you an accurate engine temp, just an accurate water exit temp.
also, dyno results have repeatedly proven that lower cooling water temps result in higher hp numbers in hi performance engines. repeatedly prove. ask anybody. an easy test on any dyno. the temperatures hbjet mentions are just fine.
second, in 25 years, i have never run a restricting device downstream from the engine thermostat housing. the outlet line should be free flowing, and the exit should be from the highest point on the engine. the closest was when i ran logs many years ago. i've always run bassets off the inlet side, with reduced orofice inlets.
i've run a grainger regulator for the past 7 years with absolutely no problems. i know a lot of people that have run the grainger, and they've had no problems. from everything that has been said, the other pressure relief works well also. personally, i like the simplicity of the grainger, and not having more hoses to route over the side.
as for erroneous? maybe check that?

[Duane HTP]

first, there is absolutely no reason to try and achieve a water temperature guage reading in a jet boat of 160-180 degrees
I'd have to argue, (in a friendly way), with you a little bit here, BP. I've seen some of these old boats gain up to 3 mph from doing nothing else other than raising the engine, (or water temp), up from zero gauge reading to the 160-180 degree range. That's one of the first things I do when I start working on a customers boat to get it to run it's best. Get it into it's normal operating range. It may not help every boat, but it sure has helped a lot of them to run better for me. It makes them more responsive and even stops some from backfiring under quick, hard acceleration. Just my experience.

[78Southwind]

You can go to your local hardware store and get a fairly inexpensive water system guage and use a reducer bushing to make it fit your manifold. 100 lb guage is big enough, because if it ever goes above 30lb, you know for sure that you have a problem.
Thanks Duane
Installed the gauge and went to Elsinore Sunday 20psi at 3,000 RPM and 35psi at 4,000 RPM. :(

[Ken F]

BP,
Well, I'm probably going to get slammed for running the wrong engine, but a Ford DEFINATLY runs much better in the 180-200 range.
The eronious comment was in no way intended for you by the way, so don't get your panties in a bunge...lol People for years ran straight off the pump outlet to the engine, and most survived successfully without pressure or temp regulation. Is this the optimum way to do it because it works for some engines?
The gentleman who asked the question in the first place, was obviously needing some information about his boat. IMHO Jims article goes through both the problems of pressure and temperature with a common sense approach which is easy to understand, explaining the "hows and whys", and giving solutions to both. At least it will give the man who originally started this thread a good basis of information to form his own opinions with.
If you have a different opinion BP, so be it- That's what makes this country great!
Wouldn't you agree?
Ken F

[HBjet]

I just read that Engine Temp write up and I still wouldn't change a thing with my setup.
My advice to anyone with engine temp issues or questions is to talk to your engine builer/mechanic and go with there advice if you have been happy with them... Every motor is different, so proper cooling for one motor may not work for another. For example, if I followed the directions on Jim's write up with my "High Performance" motor, it wouldn't be operating at its proper temp. to make max power and it probably wouldn't have held up this far.
I think to simply say there is one way to cool a motor is like saying there is only one way for a motor to make power. There are to many variables to deal with to say there is just one way.
My motor runs on 91 octane fuel and its a 10.250:1 compression motor. In order to run this way, it has to run at 125 degrees, not the typical 160-180 everyone likes to toss around. I also run headers with water going to them. The only control I have is the Bassett T valve and its works perfect. One of the modifications I did do to the header cooling was replaced the brass fittings that going into the header with stainless ones. Then welded them up and redrilled them with a 1/32 opening. My headers still get pleanty of water for keeping them cool, but I don't have to worry about water getting into my motor anymore because the "restriction" is at the header and never has to be adjusted like a valve would.
Anyways, good luck to who ever needs it!
HBjet

[Duane HTP]

In order to run this way, it has to run at 125 degrees, not the typical 160-180 everyone likes to toss around.
Why do you say this? Not being critical in any way, just would like to know what happens when you run it at a higher temp. What is your reasoning? Thanks, Duane

[flat broke]

Thanks Guys for all the input, sounds like a bypass is for me, I installed a gauge and a regulator bought locally end of last season, never could get it to work right, when I got the psi correct @ decent cruise speed, would have no psi at low speed, that was just one of the issues I was dealing with on my setup on a new(for me) boat, you guys have been great, Rob...
No PSI is not indicative of a bad situation. My boat runs 0-5 psi at 4krpm, but there is sufficient volume to keep things nice and cool. Because of my relatively high compression for pump gas, I have a very stringent water temp requirement. Once I stab it any harder than than 4k, the block builds pressure which conicidently holds water in my oil cooler for just a little longer, then I notice my oil temp drop significantly and my water temp actually drop to down around 100. As HB Jet said each boat and motor has different needs, so identify that before you set out on your quest to plumb your cooling system. I set my oil and cooling system up to go WOT for extended periods of time. Without being able to control the pressure of my water(not the volume) I would be in a situation where as RPMs and load duration increased, my oil temp would slowly start to rise. I run a very similar regulator to HB, BP and many others and have had no issues with it in this motor incarnation or any of the others before it.
For reference, my plumbing goes pump>gate valve on hardline(for safety in an emergency with a broken hose etc)>regulator>-10 into oil cooler>-10 out of oil cooler>-10 into crossover>-10 from thermostat housing/divider to jacketed headers, then the water exits through the exhaust. I never build more than 20psi in my system at WOT.
Chris

[bp]

duane, that's certainly ok with me. my comment is based on a massive amount of test data gathered by the westech dyno, by simply altering the water temp between pulls with no other changes. i know their numbers have been questioned before, but when all you're doing is changing the water temp??? especially when the a/f ratios are already dialed, and the hp numbers respond positively to reduced water temps, tends to make a believer. i'm sure you've had the results you indicate, but perhaps the backfire issue was symptomatic of some other issue?
ken, don't worry about my panties, they are just fine. i just tend to dislike it when people feel the need to say other people's opinions are bs, without feeling the need to state and stand behind their own opinions. we agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and debate is healthy. it's just a little better to see it as "i believe this is correct..." rather than " you're full of sh..."...
btw, nothing wrong with a ford; i tow my boat with a lightning.
i've said this before, and i'll say it again, especially for the newbies. on a jet boat, the water temperature guage reads water temperature, not engine temperature. the cooling system is an open system, not a closed system like on your car or truck. keep that in mind as you study the heat transfer, fluid flow and thermodynamics of this system.

[clownpuncher]

Kinda off topic, but, what's the thoughts on "oil temp". I was always under the impression that oil temp was just as, if not more, important the water temp.?

[sanger rat]

on a jet boat, the water temperature guage reads water temperature, not engine temperature. the cooling system is an open system, not a closed system like on your car or truck.
I never looked at it like that. Thanks.

[Duane HTP]

BP, I'll agree with you on the water temp. That's all that you are measuring in either system, the temperature of the water. But the engine temperature IS what gives the temperature to the water. So, it is indicative of what is taking place temperature wise with the engine. I know there are some systems that take a dry metal cylinder temp, but not the norm.

[jim@pj]

Wow, I just thought I would try to help folks to understand the cooling set up on their jet boat. As I state in my article these are observations based on my experience for "most average jet boats". There is always another way, depending on your application, but alot of new comers don't know that.
Jim

[PC Rat]

Jim,
Do I understand your article correctly - in the situation where you are using a thermostat, it is without a bypass style thermostat housing. It is just the housing with the drilled out thermostat, and the water going out of the engine is exiting this housing?
Brian

[sanger rat]

PC Rat I seen that too. My guess is the excess water will go out the relief valve until the thermosat opens up.

[jim@pj]

PC Rat, Yes Sanger Rat is correct. I wish that the By pas stat would fit the ford and some chevy manifolds , it would be a better deal. But the set up works fine for the average boat. I have used this on my eliminator day cruiser for years. On some boats where the owner is running more HP and Rpms I have used a second relief by pass off of the intake when needed. With this valve I set it at 20 psi and it will cover any spikes in the water jacket while the thermostat is operating. A pressure gauge will tell if you need that or not. On the other hand, In alot of cases, with real high output combinations, just the pressure relief by pass valve at the jet is enough to bring up the temperature without using the drilled thermostat. I would usually try that first in those cases, and see where the temp ends up. You may have to mess around a bit with your set up and find what works best for you. Jim

[bp]

BP, I'll agree with you on the water temp. That's all that you are measuring in either system, the temperature of the water. But the engine temperature IS what gives the temperature to the water. So, it is indicative of what is taking place temperature wise with the engine. I know there are some systems that take a dry metal cylinder temp, but not the norm.
duane, i am not saying the temperature gauge cannot be used as an indicator. it does indicate that heat is being transferred.
however, heat transfer through an open system is based on t in, t out, and flow rate. if the t in does not change, and you increase the flow rate, the t out will be reduced, even though heat transfer does not change between the heat generator and the coolant. if the flow rate is reduced, the delta T goes up.
there are calculations to demonstrate this.
oil temp is important.