Spectra 20, Howard 21, etc pump setup

[flat broke]

A while back in the anals of HB.net there was a guy with a blown howard 21 cruiser (the older deck) that ran by the name of Custom Cruiser or somethin like that. I did a search and couldn't find the screen name, so I'm guessing he stoped posting or something. Anyhow, the reason I mention him is because he had something like 800hp and was running over 80 with his day cruiser.
There are a couple of us here with basically the same hull and it would be cool to swap setup info to see whats shakin. I'll kick it off with my info and then hopefully Proppa and any other lurkers that are hangin out can chime in with theirs and hopefully we'll all be able to improve something as a result.
76 Spectra 20
Unknown weight
Berk A impeller with MPD detail
pump in stock location
G bowl with no detail
short berk droop
2* back cut shoe
Rideplate set 5* up,
Open center loader
max RPM 55-5600 (tach was checked against MSD digital test box and is around 100RPM off between 5500 and 6200 RPM)
71.5mph
I'm gonna post HP, but this is not for the purpose of people speculating dyno vs corrected etc. The reason I'm going to use corrected is because it should be more standard and thus will allow a better overall guage when comparing multiple setups.
Max HP as in the boat 809hp at 6500rpm.
Based off the dyno, I'm putting out between 737 and 750hp at 55-5600RPM
I curious to see 2 areas in particular, but I still want to get as much info on these type boats as I can. What are folks runnin for droops and what impeller make/cut are they spinning to what RPM?
Who's next?
Chris

[sanger rat]

Found it. http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60145

[flat broke]

Thanks Sagner,
I'm sure Bill will post up additional information at some point. I know 75 Spectra also had a 20 running around 80, so I'll have to shoot him a PM and see whats up.
Chris

[old rigger]

flats, see how nice that 20 sits on the trailer in the above link?

[flat broke]

Sure did.
It's going to take a little cutting and welding to get mine to that point :)
Bill scored a deal all the way around on that boat. Clean hull (just need to sand off those pin stripes) sitting on a nice trailer. IMHO, all Spectra 20 jets should be setup on trailers like that..
Chris

[SPECTRABRENT]

Bill's Spectra is one of the older Spectra 20's that I have come across and yes, Bill did get a good deal on that boat:D.
In early days of Spectra (before Foto Grafix) they used other trailer MFG's (Competitive, Road Runner etc.). I think Bills trailer is a Competitive.
My Spectra 20 is sitting on a Competitive (between the fenders like Bills), but it was sold out of Sundown Marine, thats why it does not have a Foto Grafix.
Chris,
This is a good post, I hope others can chime in even if they dont have a Spectra/Howard. I would like to know what REAL MPH they are getting out of thier (day cruiser) hull/motor/jet
Brent

[old rigger]

Mines a 79 and sits on a Mr. Ed trailer. Whoever was in charge of the jigs at fotographics should have paid closer attention to the way it was done at competetive!

[flat broke]

I think the issue with the fotographics trailers is that they were the "in house" trailer co for Burbank Marine. So they just jigged up one trailer for the V drive and jet, and started banging them out as fast as they could during the heyday. Brent can correct me on this if I messed up any of it. :)
It wont be too hard to fix mine. As Old Rigger had suggested, I'll just jack the boat up off the trailer and start cutting. I'll have to remove a crossmember in front that isn't concaved to match the hull, then weld in a different unit. After the clearance is handled for the drop, just cut all the bunk mounts down by x amount and re-weld em back on. Before the boat can go down, the fenders will have to be moved outward, which there is room to do with the current wheels. If the wheels offset prohibits enough outward movement, we'll just swap wheels and call it a day.
Crap if I can type out the plan in five minutes, it should only take me a couple months to do the work :) The bigger trick is going to be an order of operations for all the things I want to do so that there aren't any wasted weekends... Emily is gonna hate me. :)
Chris

[Jake W2]

Have any of you guys tried the Snoot on these cruzers they seem to help heavy boats.
Jake

[flat broke]

Have any of you guys tried the Snoot on these cruzers they seem to help heavy boats.
Jake
Funny you post that up Jake... I just got a reply to my pm to 75Spectra (had that really clean white with green trim blown spectra that ran right at 80). He was runnin the AMT long straight snoot in his setup. I think that the boat needs more leverage because of it's weight. A setback would be one way to get there, the snoot another.
Ideally I'd like to be able to go out to the lake and swap my short droop for a long droop, make some runs, then swap in a snoot and see what happens. I'll buy whatever works, thats not an issue. I just can't see fit to buy both the long droop (I've heard mixed things about these with my hull) and the long snoot. Did duane have some kind of trial program available?
Chris

[Jake W2]

I am not a sales man for HTP so that question is better left to Duane.
I think they picked up a fair amount of MPH in a 20 Foot Taylor or Condor LP with one and thoes are heavy boats with a E pump.
Jake

[SPECTRABRENT]

Jake,
The short droop work great on my old Spectra 20, it was a big improvement over just the Place Diviter. Like Chris stated, I would have liked to try the long droop to see which is better. This boat needs a droop for top end.
If anybody has a droop and would like to get rid of it let me know.
Brent

[Jake W2]

When you guys say the short droop from Berk do you mean the standard droop they sell.I have seen a really old style berk droop that said droop snoot on it ,that was really long but as far as I know thoes are not made anymore.
The only pump comp that I was aware of that made a short droop was Aggressor I had one on my old 77 BD Tahiti it did not do anything for it but the standard droop really helped it.
Jake

[SPECTRABRENT]

Yea, the short one is the standard.
Brent

[Bluefin]

Last June I purchased the 21" Howard from my Buddie (Custom Cruiser). I had to rebuild the 468 BBC because of a cracked cylinder. He had invested a lot of time and even more money into the boat over a 4-5 year period. With the BDS blower setup and pump tuned by MPD the boat ran around 65 mph.
After I rebuilt the motor with a different blower cam, longer rods and opened up the heads the boat still ran in the mid 60 mph. I sold a Hondo V-drive and bought a pair of Dart Pro 1 Aluminum heads and still only mid 60 mph.
I sought out Jack's advise at MPD and spent around $300 on a Loader grate and Back Cut shoe. After shimming the shoe down to just below the keel line I ran 77 mph one night on really rough water. Since that run on smooth water I'm only hitting around 73 mph. The Howard really likes the rough water. I will try the HTM Straight Snoot this spring. Duane's policy on the Snoot is that if you do not like it, he will give you all but $100 back.
Let me know if anyone wants specs or specifics on my set up. The boat really comes out of the water with the Shoe in the right place and loosens up.

[flat broke]

Damn,
To think I've been chasing a ghost this whole time :( ... All Custom Cruiser's old posts are gone, so I can't refer to them, but I could have sworn a mention of 80mph was made with regard to that boat. No worries though. So realisitically with the speeds you've quoted, I'm 1.5mph far off from your smooth water speeds. I talked to Big Proppa yesterday and he mentioned the same thing about getting his best speed in choppy water. It seems like everytime I'm making a change, I go to Elsinore to test. I never get good windchop there, just big rollers, of its bad at all. I did notice that I pulled better speed running in the airated water behind another boat than I did in "clean" water. This would jive with the seat of the pants speed myself and my 5 passengers at the CBBB observed. Running in a little bit of wind chop heading up-river between Moabi and NMP, the boat was just starting to pull some cheek flap and give a little push back in the seat. I have yet to do the same thing at Elsinore.
How many degree's is your shoe back cut? I back cut my to 2*, but I'm probably gonna cut it further to 4* Do you know exactly how much shim you're running? 75Spectra had .125 beyond keel line and thats where he was getting close to 80mph. He also had his diverter choked down to 3.125 for those speed numbers, but noted that the boat performed better overall with the 3.250. How many degrees do you have dialed into the ride plate right now? I'm at 5* now, and I have to keep the trim a little on the down side of neutral to tune out a light porpoise and cruise speeds. I can dial in more plate, but I think it will make the boat want to porpoise at any diverter setting until I'm at WOT.
If you can post up pics of your underwater hardware, that would be great. I didn't have the suction piece tapped for pressure this last time out, so that will be done before the boat hits the water again. I want to nail down my basic setup here in the next couple of weeks, so I can pull the motor and setback the pump. Hopefully by sharing all this info, we'll all gain a little increase in one area or another in regard to setup.
Chris

[Squeezing Spectra]

Chris i will agree with the choppy water factor too the schiada was an average of 4 mph faster in chop with no droop. Bruce

[flat broke]

Well,
There's one pretty much unanimous piece of info already. If you're gonna run against someone, make sure the water is shitty :)
Chris

[Bluefin]

The last shim I made was out of 3/4'' material. It was the 3rd and last shim I made, the others were all made from thinner material. To be honest I got tired of cutting the aluminum material with a PoS jig saw and grinding the edge to fit the shoe. I may make one more out of 5/8" material and give it a try.
I take a string and attach one end to the bow eye and run it down the keel, then eyeball where the string is touching just in from of the pump intake and last check how close the string is to the biting edge of the back cut shoe. Right now the shoe is either at the keel line or below maybe 1/16". I have not noticed any undesireable performance when letting off the throttle, although the ass end wants to break loose in corners with about half throttle.
I think my hull was originally rigged with an I/O drive because of the amount I am having to shim the shoe down.
The Ride plate is arount 5-6 degrees up. I use one of those $20 angle finders. First I make sure the boat is at 0 degrees then use the turnbuckles to suck up the trailing edge of the ride plate.
I really want to try a HTM Straight Snoot, wanting to hit the 80 mph! Right now I have a Droop Snoot from Place with the hydraulic diverter.
What else do you want to know?

[spectras only]

This was my 76 spectra jet with the fotografix trailer. I think the height was right on that one. The Vance trailer for my 72 24' V-drive sits a bit too high though . Have problem launching that one at shallow ramps. :frown:
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/spectralincolln666.1.jpg
Chris , a long droop would help the 20' ,but the real problem is with the CG on the cruisers.A setback pump would shift the weight further aft .The boat runs too wet because of the weight [ heavy layup compared to the same vintage splashes :p ] distribution. The CG should be at 70% from the front on waterline length.

[flat broke]

So was that a yeah or nay for the setback? I woulld think that by discharging the thrust further aft, it would move my CG further rearward, which would be a good thing right? I might be able to simulate this with a bowl extension or snoot type device which would in some ways accomplish the same thing. The only probem I could see with using a bowl extension, is that you would start to see the water swirl again as it has more time between the end of the vanes and the nozzle. I don't know how much forward thrust you lose when the discharge starts to move in radial fasihion, but there might be a measurable amount.
BTW, the trailer in your first pic looks pretty good.
Chris

[spectras only]

Yeah , setback :hammer2: . Looking at this picture , it shows the bunk height could be lower by 3-4" for esthetic reasons :coffeycup .
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/spectra20.3jpg.jpg

[old rigger]

http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/spectralincolln666.1.jpg
That is one cool tow car!

[spectras only]

old rigger
That is one cool tow car!
It weighs more [5050 lbs] than the boat/trailer :2purples: :D