Please help Canton 460 oil pan pickup bolt

[Jake W2]

I bought a Canton pan from Roger Leas about 2 years ago and now I get to put it to use.The question is he gave me a bolt with a stud on it with a nut to hold the pick up .This would be a Main cap bolt rite and if so when I take off the Main cap bolt to put this one in do I need to retork it and if so to what FT pound?Probely a dumb question but I am not an engine builder.
I did put in a camp cam lifters and double timing chaine in my 460 like 4 or 5 years ago with a friends supervision and it runs great but never built an engine and have read you guys talking about what crush to put on main bearings and it made me think.
Jake

[1978 Rogers]

I'm glad you asked the question. I need to put a larger pan on mine and was wondering the same thing.

[HoffmanEagleMarine]

Hey Jake, Check your PM's from earlier.......I'll update you later on my Gullwing......
To answer your question, that stud you have is like a windage tray stud. It does require a torque of 95-105 ft.lbs. and is the main cap. The small nut on the end of the main stud would probably be approx. 25 ft. lbs.
I didn't understand your question regarding the timing.....What did you mean? Talk to you soon, Doug :smile:

[Jake W2]

Thanks Doug the timing thing was not a question but rather a I am not a Engine builder but I am able to fallow instructions with some help.
So should I take off both main cap bolts and retork both of them or just the one I need to take off for the new bolt and do it.
Thanks Jake

[HoffmanEagleMarine]

Yes, I would.....It gives you chance to look at your bearings too.......If the motor was running good and had good oil pressure, maybe just spot check a few rods or mains if you want.....The rods are torqued @ 40-45 ft. lbs.
But always re-torque both the main cap and rod cap if you take one bolt or stud out......That way it all stays the same...........
Sounds like your ready to place the motor in the Gullwing.......Good deal. I wish I was that far along! The temp's rising everyday and the lakes are getting full!!!!
Doug :idea:

[HoffmanEagleMarine]

Jake, I almost forgot to ask you. The other day there was a thread on a "Apache" Hull. Someone was asking what the hull looked like. I have some pictures I'll post when I find the thread. We just finished some work on a 1986 Apache semi-vee bottom. Anyway, was that your thread??? For the life of me, I cannot find it....Doug

[Jake W2]

I wanted to bring this back up, Doug you said maine cap bolts 95 to 105 that is 10 ft lbs diffrence .What would be an exact number or is there one?
Also What do I tork the new oil pump to?I got the oil pump today and I am going to put it all togeather this weekend.
Thanks for all your guys help on this oil pan.
Jake

[Jake W2]

:notam:
Jake

[steelcomp]

I wanted to bring this back up, Doug you said maine cap bolts 95 to 105 that is 10 ft lbs diffrence .What would be an exact number or is there one?
Also What do I tork the new oil pump to?I got the oil pump today and I am going to put it all togeather this weekend.
Thanks for all your guys help on this oil pan.
Jake
Jake...chances are your torque wrench isn't much closer than that, so shoot for the middle...100 lbs. You'll be right in there. :coffeycup

[Jake W2]

Thanks Steel you knoe anything about the torque on the bolts on the oil pump or should I call Melling?
Jake

[steelcomp]

25-30 ft lbs.

[HoffmanEagleMarine]

Hey Jake, The oil pump bolts should be 3/8" and torqued from 23-27 ft. lbs. The pick-up bolts are probably 5/16" bolts (at least they are on the M84EHV) the book calls for 21-25 ft. lbs. for each. If they are 1/4" x 20, torque to 6-9 ft. lbs. Make sure so use some lock-tite on them. Steel Comp is right, split the difference if unknown.
As far as your rods and mains, I would definately re-torque all of them to the same number....How did your bearings look? Now is a good time to spot check the rods and mains. The old bearings will tell all kinds of stories...Good Luck! :p Doug

[LakesOnly]

I wanted to bring this back up, Doug you said maine cap bolts 95 to 105 that is 10 ft lbs diffrence .What would be an exact number or is there one?
Also What do I tork the new oil pump to?I got the oil pump today and I am going to put it all togeather this weekend.
Jake
95-105 is the factory spec with factory main bolts. You can go torque pretty much anywhere within the range on a stock engine and be good to go. I did my jet boat motor this way...to 105.
But if you're building something exceptional and want to split hairs, then measure the main cap bores w/o the bearings/crank in while torqing the bolts. Stock spec is 3.193" and is usually dead-on.
Now, using your bolts/oil, torque to 95 and check roundness of the main cap bore. If you're still out of round, then go to 100. Etcetera. Try to get within .0001" for your engine. When you find the proper torqe spec's for each main cap, record it and then remove the main cap bolts, install bearings and crank and re-torque.
If you feel your engine does not require you to go to these lengths, then just use Plastigage during assembly. And torque to spec. :)
My feelings on the oil pump are different than most:
1) leave the oil pump mounting gasket out.
2) Check machined area of the block and oil pump mounting flange for flatness. Should be <.0005" (less than one-half of a thousandth).
3) Use loc-tite in the threads and torque to spec in two stages (seat with 100 inch-pounds, then spec application). DO NOT fully torque one of the mounting flange ears 100% before applying preload to the opposing mounting flange ear.
LO

[Jake W2]

Thanks this has been a huge help good and fast info from the FORD guys.I got it put togeather tonight every thing fit and lined up great.
thanks agine
Jake

[Jet Hydro]

Jake if you bought a Chevy you wouldn't have to work on it all the time :D

[Ken F]

Maybe Steve, but then he'd just be another lemming. :yuk:
Ken F

[Jet Hydro]

lemons r yellow not red or orange ;) lmao

[Jake W2]

Ken how are the heads comming?
My plans are to get a set of Trick Fows alum 429/460 street and strip the pair run 1895 assembled or 1259 bare.Wont be like your Blue thunders but way better than stock.
Just come out of the closet Steve.and let every one know about your new FORD racing motor :p
Jake

[Jet Hydro]

Just come out of the closet Steve.and let every one know about your new FORD racing motor :p
Jake
Jake don`t do that to me :jawdrop: ....LMAO

[Ken F]

Jake,
What are you running now? If you want, I've got my C8's with ScJ valves & exaust porting (fresh out of the shop) if you want to borrow them.
Ken

[Jake W2]

Ken I am running the stock heads that came on the Hardne Marine 460 in 1976.The suck kind :) .
I plan on colecting the stuff for a rebuild this summer including the alum heads roller rockers custon ground cam pistons ect.I have said this befor but the boat is finaly going to be done this summer so I can spend some money on the motor its self.
Thanks for the offer but I think I can deal with the stocks for one more season.I would also like to see if I gained any more going with the Victor over the single TR I had befor.
Jake

[LakesOnly]

Ken I am running the stock heads that came on the Hardne Marine 460 in 1976.The suck kind :) .
Jake
Those are the best D3's available. No thermactor holes. With those heads, the right combo can generate 600HP, 700HP from a stroker combo.
The D3VE's port architecture is not that different from the D0VE heads, and the porting/grinding techiniques have been unlocked and proven on both the flow bench and the real world.
LO

[Jake W2]

Yea Lakes thoes are the heads.So you are saying the suck heads can be turned in to a better set worth keeping or just cought it up for the alum?
Jake