Follow the leader ?????

[BILLY.B]

Ok, I was going to post this this morning and I forgot, then Dossangers brings this very subject up to me today. Why do you suppose that it seems to be politically correct to put your water pickups on the cavitation plates. It would seem to me that it would create more drag then being in the blast plate where the water is already being churned up by the propeller causing no drag which would equate to more boat speed. Not to mention that it looks alot cleaner not having those lines coming off your plate and having two extra holes in your transom. Is this a monkey see monkey do thing trying to chase the leader?. "If it makes him win it should surely help me do the same!!!" :idea:. Julian had done alot of testing back in the day at Firebird and he said having them in the blast plate was worth 2 to 3 miles an hour over the cav pickups. This would also apply to drag boats I would think. Just asking to try and find out what the premise is :idea: .

[Moneypitt]

Billy, Mike's Revenge has the little tubes cut at a 45* out the bottom. Works fine, BUT, while on the crane at Morgan City we got to see the bottom real well (and its scary) AND we got to see the bottom of Duff's PS boat,(the one he drives) his tubes were cut so short you could hardly see them, yet they were more than enough to cool the engine/v drive. I asked him about them and he said the short tubes, and I mean short, maybe 3/16ths inch at the long side, were worth 2-3 MPH...and suggested we cut ours since ours are at least 5/8ths if not 3/4 below the bottom..........MP

[wsuwrhr]

When I redo the cav plates I will be adding the pickups to the blast plate.
I like the idea for all those reasons.
BTW, got the machine running, back in bidness.
Brian

[BILLY.B]

Billy, Mike's Revenge has the little tubes cut at a 45* out the bottom. Works fine, BUT, while on the crane at Morgan City we got to see the bottom real well (and its scary) AND we got to see the bottom of Duff's PS boat,(the one he drives) his tubes were cut so short you could hardly see them, yet they were more than enough to cool the engine/v drive. I asked him about them and he said the short tubes, and I mean short, maybe 3/16ths inch at the long side, were worth 2-3 MPH...and suggested we cut ours since ours are at least 5/8ths if not 3/4 below the bottom..........MPMine are barely hanging out the blast plate maybe 1/8" or less and I put out more then enough water with the #12 pickups.

[wsuwrhr]

Billy, Mike's Revenge has the little tubes cut at a 45* out the bottom. Works fine, BUT, while on the crane at Morgan City we got to see the bottom real well (and its scary) AND we got to see the bottom of Duff's PS boat,(the one he drives) his tubes were cut so short you could hardly see them, yet they were more than enough to cool the engine/v drive. I asked him about them and he said the short tubes, and I mean short, maybe 3/16ths inch at the long side, were worth 2-3 MPH...and suggested we cut ours since ours are at least 5/8ths if not 3/4 below the bottom..........MP
Coming from a jet boat I can tell you the weight of the boat alone in the water causes enough pressure at standstill. Taking off the waterline from the jet when it is in the water caause a nice leak.
With the forward motion of the boat I would think you wouldnt need much to cause water to be forced into ANY opening in the bottom of the boat.
Brian

[Wildchild80]

Ok, I was going to post this this morning and I forgot, then Dossangers brings this very subject up to me today. Why do you suppose that it seems to be politically correct to put your water pickups on the cavitation plates. It would seem to me that it would create more drag then being in the blast plate where the water is already being churned up by the propeller causing no drag which would equate to more boat speed. Not to mention that it looks alot cleaner not having those lines coming off your plate and having two extra holes in your transom. Is this a monkey see monkey do thing trying to chase the leader?. "If it makes him win it should surely help me do the same!!!" :idea:. Julian had done alot of testing back in the day at Firebird and he said having them in the blast plate was worth 2 to 3 miles an hour over the cav pickups. This would also apply to drag boats I would think. Just asking to try and find out what the premise is :idea: .
Billy, The reason we put the pick ups in the cav. plate we were able to cut them off very short maybe 1/8" at the long plate. You will get cleaner water through the engine. I have noticed in the boats I have run that we can drop 30 degrees of engine temp. just by moving the pick ups.

[BILLY.B]

Billy, You will get cleaner water through the engine. What the engine doesn't like the dirty water ??? :D . All I know is my water pickups are really really short and the water supply is more then enough for the oil cooler/ v-drive and the engine to stay cool. I suppose for a SS engine coolness would be a concern. I would guess you could then lean on the tune up to build heat if you needed too....RIGHT!!! :idea: :D

[wsuwrhr]

What the engine doesn't like the dirty water ??? :D . All I know is my water pickups are really really short and the water supply is more then enough for the oil cooler/ v-drive and the engine to stay cool. I suppose for a SS engine coolness would be a concern. I would guess you could then lean on the tune up to build heat if you needed too....RIGHT!!! :idea: :D
Alcohol...
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

Sent you a PM Bling Bling
Brian

[Kindsvater Flat]

I prefer them on the back of the plate to hold me back. I just want to give the competition a chance.
http://www.schoutenranch.com/misc/cavunder.jpg

[Wildchild80]

What the engine doesn't like the dirty water ??? :D . All I know is my water pickups are really really short and the water supply is more then enough for the oil cooler/ v-drive and the engine to stay cool. I suppose for a SS engine coolness would be a concern. I would guess you could then lean on the tune up to build heat if you needed too....RIGHT!!! :idea: :D
billy,
obviously, what i ment by clean water was non-aeriated water. your alcohol motor could run on almost no water, with the gas motor in the super stock, timing, lean fuel mixtures, and the constant loading of the engine running at wide open throttle is the reason we need alot of water. but, if it was faster to have the pick up under the boat, i would put it there. heres an idea that john garrison had about running a radiator that would keep the temperature constant, and no drag under the boat. he said , steve jones tried this up in washington. he does not know the reason why he never raced with it. see ya!!

[CircleJerk]

King-B, when one owns the fastest boat ever made, one must install what the other Monkee does, so its a fair race! (we force feed and leave the HP robbing impellor chewing water pump off) That being said, who wants fo fill all the dang holes or be politically correct? Are you looking for another 3 mph? Remove weight.........or L boat it. :) I did not say DIET!

[CircleJerk]

I prefer them on the back of the plate to hold me back. I just want to give the competition a chance.
http://www.schoutenranch.com/misc/cavunder.jpg
Nice can crusher Kindsman! :D

[BILLY.B]

I prefer them on the back of the plate to hold me back. I just want to give the competition a chance.
http://www.schoutenranch.com/misc/cavunder.jpgK-Flat I can't believe you posted this picture. If it took you 4 beers to get the picture right the least you could of done was to clean the boat up :frown: . You give the competition a chance by hauling all that crap on your prop. And oh yeah, by having a Dodge in your boat also :rollside: .

[BILLY.B]

billy,
obviously, what i ment by clean water was non-aeriated water. your alcohol motor could run on almost no water. I knew what you meant Dave about dirty water just funning witch ya. It just seems that so many racers used to run there pickups under the boat without any problems so I thought i'd ask. Where do you like your temperature to be when running?.

[the real k-boat king]

What the engine doesn't like the dirty water ??? :D . All I know is my water pickups are really really short and the water supply is more then enough for the oil cooler/ v-drive and the engine to stay cool. I suppose for a SS engine coolness would be a concern. I would guess you could then lean on the tune up to build heat if you needed too....RIGHT!!! :idea: :D
that's because you guys don't run any farther than 1/4 mile wide open, the k-69 is the worlds fastest k-boat and the pickups are on the plates, enough said.

[Fiat48]

And shorten that rudder. You boggin the dodge with it. :D

[wsuwrhr]

I prefer them on the back of the plate to hold me back. I just want to give the competition a chance.
CAMONNNN,
Given your boat is powered by a Dodge, thats a given.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

I did not say DIET!
Now that is going to sting.
Brian

[MikeF]

monkey see monkey do
Funny!
What you need to do is mount a tiny jet boat intake to the plates w/ a "bubble" just ahead of the intake to guide the water in for the water supply to the engine. :p
If it is on the blast plate and a hose breaks for some unknown reason, it would start filling the boat....slowly. :messedup:

[Hud]

K-Flat, looks like a little Afterbay weed on the prop there little buddy!.C'mon! :messedup:

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Jimmy D aka "Biesemeyer34", could probably pick up 10-15 mph looking at his pick-ups :D :D :D

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

I prefer them on the back of the plate to hold me back. I just want to give the competition a chance.
http://www.schoutenranch.com/misc/cavunder.jpg
If I had a Dodge, my garage floor would look like that too. :messedup:

[Sanger D]

I cant get my boat temp up to 130 even floggin the crap out of it,it has a 3/4 glenwood on it,do I reduce the outlet line down,or maybe cut down the pick ups,I know I dont want to cut the water flow down goin into the pump so whats a good way to warm the bitch up,(minus the forplay)!!
Sanger D

[dossangers]

The cleaner the setup the FASTER you will go example: shiny chrome aero efficient 2. Billy B paint job new KILO record!!!! thats why im painting my boat it will be worth 10 mph and of course Wiltons now pissed who knows!!! :supp: :mad: :supp: :mad: GORDY your KILL'IN ME!! :mad: :supp: :mad: :supp: LMAO and then some

[76BARRON]

Ok, I was going to post this this morning and I forgot, then Dossangers brings this very subject up to me today. Why do you suppose that it seems to be politically correct to put your water pickups on the cavitation plates. It would seem to me that it would create more drag then being in the blast plate where the water is already being churned up by the propeller causing no drag which would equate to more boat speed. Not to mention that it looks alot cleaner not having those lines coming off your plate and having two extra holes in your transom. Is this a monkey see monkey do thing trying to chase the leader?. "If it makes him win it should surely help me do the same!!!" :idea:. Julian had done alot of testing back in the day at Firebird and he said having them in the blast plate was worth 2 to 3 miles an hour over the cav pickups. This would also apply to drag boats I would think. Just asking to try and find out what the premise is :idea: .
DEJA VU all over again! I don't know why but I was thinkin(dreaming?)
the same thing. Seems like yesterday! :D talk about coincindence :D

[CircleJerk]

You all just made a guy with the flu laugh! funny stuff..... Hey Kindsman, dont take all that crap, fight back please. That's a great looking boat! However, I can tell by the light beer you are also on a diet like myself and the blonde :D and WILL go faster! Good job! When you jack up the bow, does it crush those cans nicely? :D Nice weed wacker also......

[VD CRUISER]

How much faster is my cruiser going to be when I take the pickups off the plate? Damn I can't wait.

[Morg]

If I had a Dodge, my garage floor would look like that too. :messedup:
Sorry M,
But that is some funny shit right their.

[Wildchild80]

I knew what you meant Dave about dirty water just funning witch ya. It just seems that so many racers used to run there pickups under the boat without any problems so I thought i'd ask. Where do you like your temperature to be when running?.
As you know billy I run a Pfaff motor they run with water temp that won't register on a normal guage (about a 100 deg.). But the real reason the water temp is so cold is that all that water in the lake we are running in is FREE Paul and Gordy are 2 of the cheapest guys I know so now you see why all the Pfaff engines use a lot of water.

[Kindsvater Flat]

K-Flat I can't believe you posted this picture. If it took you 4 beers to get the picture right the least you could of done was to clean the boat up :frown: . You give the competition a chance by hauling all that crap on your prop. And oh yeah, by having a Dodge in your boat also :rollside: .
Sure pic on the little guy. Where else am I gonna hide the cans when wifey thinks I'm working? Can't comment on the dodge deal..... thats my own doing.:D

[V-DRIVES RULE]

that's because you guys don't run any farther than 1/4 mile wide open, the k-69 is the worlds fastest k-boat and the pickups are on the plates, enough said.Just think if the pickups were under the boat maybe 150mph!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :rolleyes: :D :rolleyes:

[Fiat48]

This little thing?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374pickup.JPG

[dossangers]

Stopped by the World Headquarters of CRAZY COLORS and things are shaping up very nicely for the BLOWOUT in APRIL !!!! :lightsabe :lightsabe :boxingguy :boxingguy

[GofastRacer]

That is the way mine is but it's on the blast plate, as short as it can be!..

[V-DRIVES RULE]

Well im going to put mine the way julian had them and he invented the circle boat as we know it BIESEMEYER that the REVENGE and all others were SPLASHED FROM!!!!! :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[Moneypitt]

Funny!
What you need to do is mount a tiny jet boat intake to the plates w/ a "bubble" just ahead of the intake to guide the water in for the water supply to the engine. :p
If it is on the blast plate and a hose breaks for some unknown reason, it would start filling the boat....slowly. :messedup:
Even if the pick up is on the plate, it has to deliver the water inside the boat to the engine/oil cooler/v drive, so it would depend on where it broke. And if its inside it will fill the boat QUICKLY, very quickly, regardless of where the pick up is..........MP
PS: if Rankin says its faster on the plate, its faster on the plate!...

[BGMAN203]

One other thing I just thought of. If your pickup is on the blast plate and the inlet hose comes off, you will be taking on water in a hurry and most likley your going down. If is on the plate all you get is an over heated motor and a nice looking fountain for the spectators. Just my $.02

[CircleJerk]

right, BGMAN, been there done that. It makes a pretty fountain. Lighten the boat 50 lbs. and go 1 mph faster! Lots of light beer! ;)

[BILLY.B]

As you know billy all that water in the lake we are running in is FREE Paul and Gordy are 2 of the cheapest guys I know.Now you hit the nail square on the head with this statement!!!.I can't speak for Paul but Gordy is the true "KING"in this area. He makes a buffalo dance on a nickle he's so cheap...He's so tight he squeaks... His wallett coughs dust...etc etc etc :D :D :D

[BILLY.B]

This little thing?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374pickup.JPGMy God Bob there's at least a 5 to 10 MPH gain if you cut that "LITTLE THING" down a bit. Lets say about 1/4". :D

[superdave013]

My schiada has -16's on the plate but they are only about 1/8" down. The plate was blended a little bit in the front.
They seemed to work pretty well but lately they don't pick up much of anything other then gargae dust. :rolleyes:

[superdave013]

This little thing?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374pickup.JPG
why is the fitting not made up all the way?

[wsuwrhr]

why is the fitting not made up all the way?
Because you didn't offer a "braided hose assembly" class.
We do have a "how to" section
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

They seemed to work pretty well but lately they don't pick up much of anything other then gargae dust. :rolleyes:
You are starting to pass me up in the "how long it took to redo my boat"
Are we ever going to see it run?
Brian

[superdave013]

Because you didn't offer a "braided hose assembly" class.
We do have a "how to" section
Brian
OK, right to tight

[superdave013]

You are starting to pass me up in the "how long it took to redo my boat"
Are we ever going to see it run?
Brian
Well, working on mine does not pay soooooooooooo........
Speaking of that, you seem to be posting alot and not whipping on that 100 peice order. :hammer2:

[wsuwrhr]

Well, working on mine does not pay soooooooooooo........
Speaking of that, you seem to be posting alot and not whipping on that 100 peice order. :hammer2:
ouch. In the morning and night, thats about it.
had a broken machine, got it fixed, Ill be working in 20 min.
"Shaking the bush boss, shaking the bush" (cool hand luke) haha
So who pays you to post here? haha,
You have a motor to rig, and carb boxes to build. Get to it pal.
Brian

[superdave013]

So who pays you to post here? haha,
Adwest Technologies pays me to post between 6 and noon. After that I'm on my own time and my posting greatly decreases during those hours. :)

[wsuwrhr]

Adwest Technologies pays me to post between 6 and noon. After that I'm on my own time and my posting greatly decreases during those hours. :)
Nice, I will have to work on a sponsor.
Brian

[Carnivalride]

My God Bob there's at least a 5 to 10 MPH gain if you cut that "LITTLE THING" down a bit. Lets say about 1/4". :D
If that's 5-10mph gain I'm a gonna take mine completely off! Surely that'll get me the other 20mph I want! :D :D :D

[Kurtis500]

Well im going to put mine the way julian had them and he invented the circle boat as we know it BIESEMEYER that the REVENGE and all others were SPLASHED FROM!!!!! :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:
Which splashed the bottom off an Aqua Craft :D

[flat broke]

I ain't Pfaff, and I don't own a v'drive. But when jet guys were trying to pick up intercooler water off the ride plate, it led to less efficient cooling because of the airated water. As someone else posted. It may be okay for a 1/4mile dealio, but I'm guessing that if you're gonna be on the jammy jam for more than a couple of seconds, you'll want all the nice cold, non-airated water that you can get runnin through that mill. For the gasonline powered mills, the 2-3mph you might gain in moving the pickup, could be negated in a slightly more conservative tune because you'r seeing higher combustion chamber temps do to a less effiecient thermal exchange because of the airated water.
You do have me thinkin though. How much mph is that pitot tube that's stickin out under my boat robbin me of? :idea:
Chris

[V-DRIVES RULE]

Which splashed the bottom off an Aqua Craft :DHow many aqua craft have championships HUH! also the prop blast pressureizes the water do you know how much pressure is created at 100+ mph ALOT also under the prop theres no drag! and i would think you would want more cyl temp anyway nascar runs at about 220 deg. 230 all the time and how can you control temp without a closed system!! GORDY your turn CHAMP.!! :rollside: :rollside: :rollside:

[Kurtis500]

How many aqua craft have championships HUH! also the prop blast pressureizes the water do you know how much pressure is created at 100+ mph ALOT also under the prop theres no drag! and i would think you would want more cyl temp anyway nascar runs at about 220 deg. 230 all the time and how can you control temp without a closed system!! GORDY your turn CHAMP.!! :rollside: :rollside: :rollside:
Where was the original Biesemeyer bottom splashed from?

[Dave Sammons]

Billy, you're right, I've thought for a long time this water pick-up thing has been a "monkey see, monkey do" kinda thing. It has alway bothered me that on a runnerbottom every builder plunks the pick-up right into the centerplate. We spend all this time straighting the bottom, reccessing the strut and plates, speedcoating...it goes on and on. If we can all agree that if the boat is rigged right, meaning the motor/prop/strut angle/rudder length/etc are in place, then the cavitation plates are for setting the boat and precision trimming at speed. On a dragboat that rides on the center runner, why stick anything down through the centerplate! It would be like not countersinking the pad bolts. About 15 years ago while pondering this issue, I decided to go another way...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1517swwp.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1517sat9-med.jpg
Top photo is of our old Canyon built in 1990. I rigged this boat with the pickup on the OUTSIDE plate. At slow speeds this setup will pick up all the water you need and at speed, and I've seen plenty of pictures, it still picks up water and can't be hardly dragging in the water, since the boat is up on the runner. I've rigged every runnerbottom since then this way with no problems. Don't know if it's any better, but, it works and I like the theory behind it. As for the B-Boat under constuction now...I'll be putting -12 pick-ups in through the Washplate. Don't know if you could really measure if it makes a difference, but, my thinking is I'd rather leave the Cav plate surface as smooth as possible on the underside.

[Kurtis500]

On a dragboat that rides on the center runner, why stick anything down through the centerplate!
On a dragboat, why put water pickups in anyways? I would assume people use them as dual purpose some of the time?
Both of my hydros run dry blocks and no pump for years now. I can keep the temps accurate and haven't had a problem. Of course, they only run the length of the track otherwise it would need water.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Where was the original Biesemeyer bottom splashed from?
I thought we beat this subject to death allready... :confused:
They started with an aquacraft and changed everything except the keel line.

[the real k-boat king]

How many aqua craft have championships HUH! also the prop blast pressureizes the water do you know how much pressure is created at 100+ mph ALOT also under the prop theres no drag! and i would think you would want more cyl temp anyway nascar runs at about 220 deg. 230 all the time and how can you control temp without a closed system!! GORDY your turn CHAMP.!! :rollside: :rollside: :rollside:the rule of thumb is water temp in to water temp out is 15 to 25 degrees, so if you have 70 degrees water going in 85 to 95 degrees out, now if you try to have 180 degree water temp somewhere in the cylinder head there is going to be 220-230 temp which is no good. accually the most important thing in cooling is block psi. you should have at least 25 lbs at wide open throttle, this will keep the steam pockets out of the heads, and then you will have proper cooling.

[Terminal Velocity]

Question for you Gordy, how do you measure that? Are you putting some type of gauge in the block to check it? I'm curious is all, seeing as i will have some nice chunks of Aluminum coming soon. :cool:

[Carnivalride]

Billy, you're right, I've thought for a long time this water pick-up thing has been a "monkey see, monkey do" kinda thing. It has alway bothered me that on a runnerbottom every builder plunks the pick-up right into the centerplate. We spend all this time straighting the bottom, reccessing the strut and plates, speedcoating...it goes on and on. If we can all agree that if the boat is rigged right, meaning the motor/prop/strut angle/rudder length/etc are in place, then the cavitation plates are for setting the boat and precision trimming at speed. On a dragboat that rides on the center runner, why stick anything down through the centerplate! It would be like not countersinking the pad bolts. About 15 years ago while pondering this issue, I decided to go another way...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1517swwp.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1517sat9-med.jpg
Top photo is of our old Canyon built in 1990. I rigged this boat with the pickup on the OUTSIDE plate. At slow speeds this setup will pick up all the water you need and at speed, and I've seen plenty of pictures, it still picks up water and can't be hardly dragging in the water, since the boat is up on the runner. I've rigged every runnerbottom since then this way with no problems. Don't know if it's any better, but, it works and I like the theory behind it. As for the B-Boat under constuction now...I'll be putting -12 pick-ups in through the Washplate. Don't know if you could really measure if it makes a difference, but, my thinking is I'd rather leave the Cav plate surface as smooth as possible on the underside.
What size is the fitting on the bottom boat -10 or -12? Do you still restrict the water with a manual valve?

[BIGCHRIS]

My God Bob there's at least a 5 to 10 MPH gain if you cut that "LITTLE THING" down a bit. Lets say about 1/4". :D
Blind leading the Blind ,follow the leader mine were down 7/8'' of a inch :smile: Just came in from cutting them to a 1/8 :smile: :smile:

[BILLY.B]

Blind leading the Blind ,follow the leader mine were down 7/8'' of a inch :smile: Just came in from cutting them to a 1/8 :smile: :smile: See Chris this is nothing but a thread loaded with info :D . Glad we could be of help. Thats what us v-drive guys are all about, no $hit stirring here just lots of info :D :D

[Dave Sammons]

What size is the fitting on the bottom boat -10 or -12? Do you still restrict the water with a manual valve?
It's a -10. When he decided to go with a Magnaflow pump instead of a Neovane, I machined a pill for the waterline that reduces it to an 8. Made a backcut into the thru-hull and slipped it in, a little cleaner than a gate valve.

[BIGCHRIS]

See Chris this is nothing but a thread loaded with info :D . Glad we could be of help. Thats what us v-drive guys are all about, no $hit stirring here just lots of info :D :D
Hey billy, :) since were on this subject and there closely related are there any performance mods to the rudder that can be done to help more :)