Wal-Mart's answer to unions

[Seadog]

It was just announced that Wal-Mart has told those psuedo-french liberals that forced Wal-Mart to accept their union that they are going to shutdown their store. The unions are fighting Wal-Mart tooth and toe nail to force them to pay high wages for low skill jobs and Wal-Mart has one answer. When the meatcutters at one store unionized, they eliminated ALL meatcutter positions nationwide and went to precut meats. Wal-Mart cannot afford to pay $15-20/hour and keep prices competitive. That's what they told the Canadians. So the greed of the unions have once again cost the jobs of those who could least afford to lose them.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Good for them! I'm not a big fan of Wally World's business tactics, but if they can shuck the union, more power to them.
When there was a UAW strike several years ago, my two friends that went out on a limb to start a AC/Delco warehouse, lost it.
Unions suck!!! :yuk:

[1978 Rogers]

I'm not pro-union. All they stand for is un-educated over paid workers. Every once in a while we do a commercial landscape job that we sign a Project Labor Agreement. Basicaly our crew for that job is unionized just for that job. Our guys do make extra money. But we also have to pay about $150 per person to sign up and $5 per hour to the Union Retirement Fund, which our guys don't get any part of. We usually get fought over between the Labors, Pumbers and Equipment Operators Union on which Fund gets our money. Like a piece of meat.
Oh well, just my 2 cents.

[1978 Rogers]

Forgive me Riodog, I should have been more specific instead of that generalized statement. I was referring to Dock Workers, Wharehouse Workers, Carpenters, Steel Workers & Equipment Operators. The more labor related fields. I'm referring to the ones that might have a highschool education. The four you mentioned are certainly deserve every penny.
When I was in high school, I worked as a scab for a Safeway store. After the strikes, I quit becuase I would have had to join there union. They wanted to much of my check and I couldn't stay without joining.

[djunkie]

I can understand where you people are coming from on this subject but a lot of your opinions I think come from what you read in papers and hear on the news. I am a memeber of a very strong union that fights hard for their workers. We are not there to rob the companies but to get good benefits and a decent retirement for people who have worked hard for years. It's funny how many people hate on our job but when there is a hiring they are the first in line for our job.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I can understand where you people are coming from on this subject but a lot of your opinions I think come from what you read in papers and hear on the news. I am a memeber of a very strong union that fights hard for their workers. We are not there to rob the companies but to get good benefits and a decent retirement for people who have worked hard for years. It's funny how many people hate on our job but when there is a hiring they are the first in line for our job.
Longshoreman, right?

[djunkie]

Longshoreman, right?
Yes I am. Flame on

[spectratoad]

78 Rodgers, While I am NOT pro-union, I find your statement to be as idiotic as anything I've ever read. Your generalization denigrates many of our pharmacists, doctors, police officers, airline pilots, etc., with far more education and skill levels than your "over-inflated-opinionated-ass has attained in a mere 34 or so years.
Here in SoCal "landscape engineers" are found at Home Depot or on the corner.
Rio
Ok I think he can stick with the overpaid part though :D

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Yes I am. Flame on
Who said I wanted to flame? I was just taking a guess based on what you said and your location.

[djunkie]

Who said I wanted to flame? I was just taking a guess based on what you said and your location.
Sorry wasn't referring to you particularly when I said to flame on. It's just I was involved another time when this subject came up and there was a large majority of people who were misinformed and had some not so nice things to say about my job. I don't disagree with some of the opinions but there is lot that people don't understand about my job.

[1978 Rogers]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050211/ap_on_bi_ge/wal_mart_canada
I can't believe this.

[djunkie]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050211/ap_on_bi_ge/wal_mart_canada
I can't believe this.
First of all that is a bad example. Walmart treats their employees like shit. 2nd that is freakin Canada. Don't know what goes on over there. Walmart has been a union buster from the day they started up. I am not saying that all unions do the right thing. But all we are trying to do is stand up for what we feal is right for us. In the union I'm in we are always criticised for how much we make. But if you knew anyhting about it you would know that is not our main goal. The companies offer us more money so that they can take things away from us at the bargaining table when we are in contract negotiations. Our main goals are SAFETY on the job, benefits, and retirement. We have doctors and Lawers who have given up their practices to come work where I work. It's a great job with great benefits and retirement. Maybe if more people stood up for what they deserve they would get it.

[mickeyfinn]

First of all that is a bad example. Walmart treats their employees like shit. 2nd that is freakin Canada. Don't know what goes on over there. Walmart has been a union buster from the day they started up. I am not saying that all unions do the right thing. But all we are trying to do is stand up for what we feal is right for us. In the union I'm in we are always criticised for how much we make. But if you knew anyhting about it you would know that is not our main goal. The companies offer us more money so that they can take things away from us at the bargaining table when we are in contract negotiations. Our main goals are SAFETY on the job, benefits, and retirement. We have doctors and Lawers who have given up their practices to come work where I work. It's a great job with great benefits and retirement. Maybe if more people stood up for what they deserve they would get it.
Well I have to call BULLSHIT!!! The unions main purposes in this day and age are to gain as many members as possible, collect enough to pay the outrageous salaries of the union management and to take as much as possible from the company as they possibly can without bankrupting. (Ocassionally they go to far and do bankrupt the company). What is good for the people is what is good for the economy. That is to let the companies pay a "competitive wage". If a company can pay you next to nothing to do your job and you can't go somewhere else to work for more money then you made a poor career choice. If you have skills which are truly marketable and desirable then the company will have to pay you good money to retain your service. If they don't then you will work for their competitor who will gladly pay more for your service if you are good at what you do. Retirement and benefits are both examples of things that grew from a good growing economy. Business was thriving, companies were making money hand over fist and employees were starting to jump from employer to employer to make more money. Then someone has the idea that in addition to paying our people a competitive wage we will offer him a retirement package. Most of these original packages were defined benefit packages with a lengthy time before you became "vested" in this benefit. This was done to promote eomployee loyalty to the company. Not because they made the most money, but because they also had to stay long term for the retirement to pay off. As for benefits the first insurance plans offered had fairly priced premiums but deductibles much higher than what most people have today. The plans also paid based on a percentage and covered mainly life threatening illnesses. As time passed the bid for employees continued to run high.l The unions were needed to insure safety in the workplace. If the unions want to continue to do that fine, but stay out of the finances of the company. In todays economy we would be much better off by eliminating the unions, allowing all firms to pay minimum wage to the unskilled workers. Instead we have them sucking like a leach at the lifeblood of our economy.

[Blown 472]

Poor lil wal mart, must suck being the second biggest political money investor, with big oil just ahead of them.

[framer1]

[QUOTE=1978 Rogers]Forgive me Riodog, I should have been more specific instead of that generalized statement. I was referring Carpenters.
QUOTE]
That's funny I pay alot of my (dumb) carpenters more than union wages. Try framing a five or six thousand sq. foot house that's all cut up or on a hill side and than tell me how dumb we are. Usually we are telling the engineers and architects how to build them. Must be their college educations :yuk:

[Highlimit9000]

I'm not pro-union. All they stand for is un-educated over paid workers.
Not True! You need to get yourself educated before you make such blanket statements!

[Blown 472]

Forgive me Riodog, I should have been more specific instead of that generalized statement. I was referring to Dock Workers, Wharehouse Workers, Carpenters, Steel Workers & Equipment Operators. The more labor related fields. I'm referring to the ones that might have a highschool education. The four you mentioned are certainly deserve every penny.
When I was in high school, I worked as a scab for a Safeway store. After the strikes, I quit becuase I would have had to join there union. They wanted to much of my check and I couldn't stay without joining.
And what do you do for a living??

[mickeyfinn]

And what do you do for a living??
What does it matter what he does for a living? Doesn't matter how much education you have either. You are worth exactly whatever you and your employer negotiate period. Even if someone had to have 15 years of college,if their chosen field is flooded they made poor career choice and not wothmuch to the market. Unions distort these values and force business to spend more than the market would competively pay for the same skills. Money that would/could have been reinvested in the economy.

[Highlimit9000]

What does it matter what he does for a living? Doesn't matter how much education you have either. You are worth exactly whatever you and your employer negotiate period. Even if someone had to have 15 years of college,if their chosen field is flooded they made poor career choice and not wothmuch to the market. Unions distort these values and force business to spend more than the market would competively pay for the same skills. Money that would/could have been reinvested in the economy.
Sounds like someone is crying over a poor career choice!

[djunkie]

[QUOTE=mickeyfinn]Well I have to call BULLSHIT!!! The unions main purposes in this day and age are to gain as many members as possible, collect enough to pay the outrageous salaries of the union management and to take as much as possible from the company as they possibly can without bankrupting. (Ocassionally they go to far and do bankrupt the company).
In some circumstances this is true. Like I said in an earlier post I do agree with some of you that not all unions are fair in what they preach. But in MY case in the union I am in, our primary concern is not our hourly wage. I am in no way an expert on unions because I have not been around them for 30 or more years to be that educated on them. But I do know enough about the one I'm in to say that we SOMETIMES do get a bad rap. We are plastered all over the media as being big money makers which is NOT true. The SKILLED equipment operators are the ones who make big money. But why shouldn't they. They are operating equipment with people around and any slip is a fatal one. The reason some people make money in this industry is are able to work as many shifts as we want. There is work 24 hours a day here. So if you want to make more you work more plain and simple. If you could see what I make working mon.-fri. on the dayside most people wouldn't even want to do it. You can't make a living like that.

[mickeyfinn]

If you are as was mentioned above, a member of ILA (I think that is it,Longshoremen union ) then your union is no better than the rest. I have heard second hand of then restricting trade by threatening to indefinitely delaying the unloading of ships if they used non-union labor to offload in open ports. Don't know if this is your union or not but sounded like it. Just another example of unions getting in the way of competition. With our government giving incentives to companies to move over seas,we don't need the unions giving corporations even more reasons.

[djunkie]

If you are as was mentioned above, a member of ILA (I think that is it,Longshoremen union ) then your union is no better than the rest. I have heard second hand of then restricting trade by threatening to indefinitely delaying the unloading of ships if they used non-union labor to offload in open ports. Don't know if this is your union or not but sounded like it. Just another example of unions getting in the way of competition. With our government giving incentives to companies to move over seas,we don't need the unions giving corporations even more reasons.
Yes I am a longshoreman. It is the ILWU. And you said it your self " I have heard second hand". This is the biggest problem we have. People who only know what they hear. If you don't know first hand than why make comments on a subject that you may not be properly informed of.

[mickeyfinn]

I said second hand because I was not directly involved, however a close family member was. lots of time in preparation and depositions only to be settled.

[mickeyfinn]

May be a different organization though. I'm pretty sure it was the ILA and that is different from what you said.

[djunkie]

It always seems that I get caught up in these discussions and it is always a big waste of time. There is always going to be pro's and con's of everyone's career/profession. There is always going to be people that have nothing good to say about it so why say anything at all. You have your opinoin and thats not gonna change no matter what. If you hate unions for some reason or another thats your perogative and I'm not gonna change it. But don't sit here and say "I heard second hand" or "I read somewhere" and expect eveyone is gonna agree with you. Do you beleive everything you read and hear? I don't think so. If you do you've got some issues. Maybe people are just jealous maybe not. But I'm out of this discussion. I didn't join Hot Boat for the political BS.

[Forkin' Crazy]

But don't sit here and say "I heard second hand" or "I read somewhere" and expect eveyone is gonna agree with you. Do you beleive everything you read and hear? I don't think so. If you do you've got some issues. Maybe people are just jealous maybe not. But I'm out of this discussion. I didn't join Hot Boat for the political BS.
Well I guess that I heard everything second hand. It came directly from people that were intimately involved. I have never been directly involved with a union, but have plenty of friends that have. I guess getting all this second hand info makes my opinions debunked. :rolleyes: LOL!!!
I know I did watch FIRST HAND two of my friends that opened an AC Delco parts warehouse. It when along fine for the first year and a half. They were making money, paying bills and had doubled their employees in just one year. That's when the UAW went on strike. If you are in the business of selling car parts and the car part manufacture quits selling you parts, then you are fukked!!! And it was the UAW (union) that did it! Fukk the UAW and all other unions that operate like them, second hand or not!!!
BTW, if you don't like it here, then go back to the sandbar!!! :messedup:
Let's see if I can kill this thread...LOL! :squiggle:

[SHOTKALLIN]

Anyone who works for Walmart knew that it was a dead end job when they took it. Anyone who took a job with Walmart hoping that someday the union would come and give them the world is a fool. If you want a union job go get one.

[Brooski]

There are pros and cons with everything, unions included. And I have seen union jobs that dont pay a whole lot more than non-union jobs. But what I havent seen mentioned here is how most union jobs have BENEFITS. Kinda hard to pay your own medical, dental and retirement on minimum wage. Unions also help prevent people from being laid off or fired unfairly. And before you say it, I have seen alot of people fired legitimately without the union fighting it. Walmart has, and probably always will treat their employees like crap, in the interest of making money. That money benefits the company, period. They can care less about helping out the employees or consumers.
As for the uneducated comment, when it comes to smart people that have not had a higher education or college educated idiots with no common sense, I know who I would rather have working with me or for me. I'm done.

[Seadog]

IF you mean paying minimum wage for a minimum skill job, then by that definition, Wal-Mart treats their people like crap. I worked at W-M in college and it was a good part-time job. A lot better than most of the small businesses I worked for. Try working for a restaurant that pays you less than minimum wage. It is acceptable for waitresses since they get tips, but the kitchen help don't get the tips. This is one of the reasons I hate the practice of tipping.
My families have been involved with trucking and I very much remember the bad old days when teamsters would shoot at independents, or beat them up. Several family members worked for BF Goodrich and every few years they would go on strike. The workers would have to find other work for about three months and the gains never offset their losses for those months. My wife took a federal job where they have union representitives. She refused to join the union and she was never given a chance for advancement despite being a superior worker.
Unions can be a good thing or a sheitty thing, but most of them are dinosaurs that bleed the workers more than benefit. Too many are not interested in working with the company to the benefit of all. They just want to squeeze the company as much as possible which at some point allows a non-union competitor to take over market share. How many union grocery stores are making it any more? Look at how much of a big three car is union benefits.

[LUVNLIFE]

Forgive me Riodog, I should have been more specific instead of that generalized statement. I was referring to Dock Workers, Wharehouse Workers, Carpenters, Steel Workers & Equipment Operators. The more labor related fields. I'm referring to the ones that might have a highschool education. The four you mentioned are certainly deserve every penny.
When I was in high school, I worked as a scab for a Safeway store. After the strikes, I quit becuase I would have had to join there union. They wanted to much of my check and I couldn't stay without joining.
I'm an Equipment Operator by trade(union). I'm also educated, I'm a foreman well on the road to superintendent. I attend meetings with architects and engineers who when there designs don't work ask me to give my suggestions. You said that you were a landscaper, in my neighborhood they are called the guys that mow my lawn, and I never ask them for their opinion.

[LUVNLIFE]

Anyone who works for Walmart knew that it was a dead end job when they took it. Anyone who took a job with Walmart hoping that someday the union would come and give them the world is a fool. If you want a union job go get one.
Shotkallin you are absolutely right. That is what I call a stepping stone job. You do it until what you really want pans out. The problem is alot of people set some way off goals and never get off that stone.

[Seadog]

One problem with union jobs is it does not provide for wheat from the chaff. Too many people can wind up staying in a dead end job because it pays better and has more benefits then deserved. Skilled laborers can work both union and non-union jobs, but how can a union cashier go anywhere? I have seen 55 year old cashiers that got ruined when their store closed because it couldn't compete due to paying union wages/benefits.

[1978 Rogers]

I'm an Equipment Operator by trade(union). I'm also educated, I'm a foreman well on the road to superintendent. I attend meetings with architects and engineers who when there designs don't work ask me to give my suggestions. You said that you were a landscaper, in my neighborhood they are called the guys that mow my lawn, and I never ask them for their opinion.
On a Commercial or Public Construction job, typically every trade involved with the work on hand is in a weekly meeting with the owner's rep, engineers & architects. I've been in them too. La tee da. I'm not the guy pushing the mower. I'm the guy bidding & managing on the jobs of installing playfields, drainage systems, irrigation and also the plants. It certainly isn't rocket science. I work for one of the oldest & largest landscape companys in the Puget Sound area. I'm not some jerk with a pickup truck & a mower calling myself a landscaper. I'm the guy who is keeping our laborers busy and a job.
You must be an exception to what I said about Union Workers. I know they're not all stupid and I appolgized for making such a generalization. I speak from my personal experience. Can you tell us what someone with your qualifications makes, Non-Union or what the difference would be?
Our average labor costs(including benifits) for a regular project are $18.64/hr. This does not inlcude OH & profit. Our average labor cost, for a project that requires us to sign a PLA is $32.91. That's a big difference for getting the same thing. We bid on a federal building last year that required a PLA to be signed with local labors union. My bid came in at $418,764.18. It would have been $358,821.81 w/o the PLA. Thats a big difference for just UNION LABOR. This project had a select bid list of 3 prequalified landscapers, us being one of the three.

[LUVNLIFE]

To the first part of your reply, LaTeeDa is not an accepted ***boat comeback :D
To the second part, your apology is accepted :wink: I have a friend who is moving to Arizona and when he applied he was told the pay was half of here.Seventeen an hour versus thirty two plus benefits that make the package around sixty five possibly a few bucks one way or the other. As far as management you make your own deal.
To the third part, you being in business know that getting bigger and better contracts has a price. There is more overhead, labor costs and bills to go with what you hope is more profit.
Now my disclaimer, I am not sitting here preaching union talk, it's just what I got into and I make it work well for me. I have had this conversation on other threads as well. Just don't throw all the union members into the overpaid, lazy, and dumber people category. :)

[1978 Rogers]

Now my disclaimer, I am not sitting here preaching union talk, it's just what I got into and I make it work well for me. I have had this conversation on other threads as well. Just don't throw all the union members into the overpaid, lazy, and dumber people category. :)
I didn't mean to come off like a jackass. In any of my messages about this subject and I should have read what I was writing first to double check to see if it could be taken the wrong way.
I've enjoyed all the conversations on here and have maid some friendships. I truly am sorry if I've pissed off or offended anyone. I did go to college, but I didn't get an A in public speaking. :D

[LUVNLIFE]

No prob I don't hold anything against to many people. I'm an easy going guy and we'll prob meet up sometime and have a few beers or cocktails together. :D You meet alot of good people on the boards and I wouldn't let something like that get in the way of good times. Cale :D :D

[canuck1]

First of all that is a bad example. Walmart treats their employees like shit. 2nd that is freakin Canada. Don't know what goes on over there. Walmart has been a union buster from the day they started up. I am not saying that all unions do the right thing. But all we are trying to do is stand up for what we feal is right for us. In the union I'm in we are always criticised for how much we make. But if you knew anyhting about it you would know that is not our main goal. The companies offer us more money so that they can take things away from us at the bargaining table when we are in contract negotiations. Our main goals are SAFETY on the job, benefits, and retirement. We have doctors and Lawers who have given up their practices to come work where I work. It's a great job with great benefits and retirement. Maybe if more people stood up for what they deserve they would get it.
That is not Canada that is Quebec

[Forkin' Crazy]

That is not Canada that is Quebec
From what I hear and read, you are correct.
The queers put the Q-U in Quebec.. :)