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OutCole'd
02-11-2005, 02:16 PM
My boat is in Havasu and I am trying to see if one particular muffler brand will work on my Deck boat. Does anyone have a pic of the transom on their boat to see if this will work?
Thanks.

JB in so cal
02-11-2005, 03:36 PM
OC,
I tried the Rex's - bought 'em, dragged 'em out there, gave to Magic to put on - nope!
I saw one at the show that had an "indent" on the top, say 1/5 of the muffler; if I had to guess, I'd say one of them would fit. I think there are a lot of pics of different mufflers taken by either RD or HDD that showed about 10 boats w/mufflers installed.
You're welcome for all of the help.LOL
JB

JB in so cal
02-11-2005, 03:41 PM
In fact. They were on one of Advantage's deck boats. Almost 100% sure - just don't remember which boat...
Call them!

OutCole'd
02-11-2005, 03:45 PM
What would I do without all your help???
I like the Gibson power curves so far. Seem to have little effect on RPM's, And really got the boat quiet according to the always accurate HB magazine test's.
I would just like to see how they would lay out on my boat to make sure there is no clearance issues. I will check out RRL & look for those pics..
Thanks Again!! :D :D

JB in so cal
02-11-2005, 03:47 PM
Get a set of in-lines. No clearance issues.

OutCole'd
02-11-2005, 03:51 PM
Get a set of in-lines. No clearance issues.
Ya, but that would be the easy route. I never go that road.
Plus the boat is in Havasu and it is a pain to work on it there. I figure clamp on tips would be easy.

riverroyal
02-12-2005, 09:43 AM
you guys need to figure this out,Im tired of waiting for you to do all the leg work,,,ha

OutCole'd
02-12-2005, 09:48 AM
you guys need to figure this out,Im tired of waiting for you to do all the leg work,,,ha
Did you get my pm...?

riverroyal
02-12-2005, 10:00 AM
just checked it

JB in so cal
02-12-2005, 10:38 AM
Well. Look who came out into the daylight...

riverroyal
02-12-2005, 10:45 AM
its rainin,what else is there to do

Not So Fast
02-12-2005, 05:49 PM
When you get this figured out be sure to post results for the rest of us Magic owners. I just went out to the garage and scoped out how the Eddie DBL XX clamp on would fit with a straight edge used for checking clearances and looks like they would fit no problem and their silencer in HB's test looked close enough for me, they wont break the bank either :mix: I'll still wait and see how this whole noise thing pans out. The test seems like it will be hard to control what with ambeient noise affecting the readings. Keep us in the loop. NSF :2purples:

amw
02-12-2005, 05:55 PM
my friend just bought a magic and i told him to buy the livorsi clamp on he said it works great

Not So Fast
02-12-2005, 05:59 PM
AMW, are they worth all the extra cash? I can think of a lot better things for my boat than a big name muffler and once you're in the water no one can see them anyway, especially at 85mph, well 65mph and Eddies were right there in the tests, just a thought NSF :2purples:

OutCole'd
02-12-2005, 10:06 PM
When you get this figured out be sure to post results for the rest of us Magic owners. I just went out to the garage and scoped out how the Eddie DBL XX clamp on would fit with a straight edge used for checking clearances and looks like they would fit no problem and their silencer in HB's test looked close enough for me, they wont break the bank either :mix: I'll still wait and see how this whole noise thing pans out. The test seems like it will be hard to control what with ambeient noise affecting the readings. Keep us in the loop. NSF :2purples:
NSF, What motor do you have? I went back & looked at the article again and if your running a 496, the I agree, the Eddie tips look like they would fit & do a fine job.
I have a 525 and it does not look like they would make the boat legal, plus a bit more of a drop on RPM's than the Power Curves. Do you have any pics of your boat? Especially the transom?

Not So Fast
02-13-2005, 06:30 AM
OC'ed, yes I have the 496HO so that is what I would put on, but like I have said unless you launch at Havasu marina, which I don't, then I am going to take a wait and see attitude on this noise thing. I just looked at my transom again and with an OD of 6in (rex size) then you will be real close if your Aqua step if it's in the same place as mine (I dont know if Magic uses any kind of template to mount them so that they would all be the same, I doubt it!!) but it looks like they will clear the underside of the swim step, but again I dont know if your (525) tips exit in the exact same place, maybe you need to talk to a 525 owner to be sure. I'm not smart enough to post a picture but will send you some pics if you want via e-mail. I dont want to sound cheap but for Gods sake these are little mufflers we are talking about with prices up to $700 @ piece (Livorsi), hard to swallow for something I DON"T want to put on in the first place and wont until I'm cited!! Good luck and let me know on the pic's. NSF :2purples:

Not So Fast
02-13-2005, 06:39 AM
And another thing I have not heard any one talk about is the DREADED reversion problem that I know for a fact is happening on some of these installs, thats why if and when I am forced to put these freeking things on then they will for sure be clamp ons as far away from my motor as possible. No one is mentioning this problem on the boards????? do the makers of these over priced mufflers guarantee against reversion, just a thought NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

OutCole'd
02-13-2005, 08:49 AM
Thanks to Not So Fast for the pics. By the way, Congrats on the new boat!! Looks great!http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1075the_very_begining_026.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1075magic_2364.jpg

Dana Marine Products
02-13-2005, 09:57 AM
Not So Fast, that's a good point on the reversion issue. We tested alot of different muffling systems and we did not encounter any reversion problems, but I heard that Mercury is talking to boat manufacturers about this issue. I heard the use of some of the after market muffling systems will void Mercruiser warranties. Straight through design mufflers eliminate this potential.

OutCole'd
02-13-2005, 10:12 AM
Not So Fast, that's a good point on the reversion issue. We tested alot of different muffling systems and we did not encounter any reversion problems, but I heard that Mercury is talking to boat manufacturers about this issue. I heard the use of some of the after market muffling systems will void Mercruiser warranties. Straight through design mufflers eliminate this potential.
Since you guys are a distributor for Gibson, what about the power curves? Is there anything with this that prevents reversion problems?

Dana Marine Products
02-13-2005, 10:24 AM
I think Mercury's fear factor is that some muffling systems hold too much water in. The water is getting backed up in the system as it's trying to get out. The straight through design from Gibson doesn't cause any disruption in the water flow. It is advised to install the clamp on the flappers to the end of the mufflers to comply with Mercury.

OutCole'd
02-13-2005, 10:25 AM
I think Mercury's fear factor is that some muffling systems hold too much water in. The water is getting backed up in the system as it's trying to get out. The straight through design from Gibson doesn't cause any disruption in the water flow. It is advised to install the clamp on the flappers to the end of the mufflers to comply with Mercury.
Is there any kind of clamp on flappers for the power curves?

Dana Marine Products
02-13-2005, 10:36 AM
The Power Curves do not have any flapper devices internally. They are made from 4" tubing, but they are angle cut. If they were straight cut, a salisbury style flapper could be installed. Unfortunately cutting them straight off could potentially scoop water up when running at high speeds. Because of the variables in boat transoms and the locations of the exhaust tips, the Power Curves won't work on every application. If the tips are mounted low with no S-pipe inside the boat, the Power Curves could let water in just as the tip would. On the other hand, a lot of the driving force of the water into the transom when slowing down would be eliminated by the addition of Power Curves. Because there are so many variables in boats, tip locations, etc. it's hard to provide exact information. I think you'll see alot of manufacturers using the transom mount and clamp on models.

Not So Fast
02-13-2005, 11:16 AM
good info Dana, the brand that I know of that caused reversion was a GGB product (hope i dont get in trouble for saying that but it is the truth). i've had reversion before on another boat and then the finger pointing starts. do you know if the Gibson product in clamp on form (no in-lines for me, too close) has any clearance problems on a Magic D.B.? Thanks O.C.ed for the post of pic's, now i just have to figure out how to get them in my avatar or signature, as i said I'm pretty STUPID when it comes to computers. NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

Dana Marine Products
02-13-2005, 11:45 AM
I don't know if it will clear or not. From the posted pics, the only question would be the Aqua Step. If the OD of the exhaust tip flange would clear the step, the mufflers would work. If you have pictures, I'd be more than happy to look at them and let you know. Where do you keep the boat? You're also more than welcome to bring it by the shop and we could test fit some.

Havasu_Dreamin
02-13-2005, 11:52 AM
do the makers of these over priced mufflers guarantee against reversion, just a thought NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:
Our Rex Marine Power Silencers have the Rex Marine Super Flapper inlcuded in it.

Dana Marine Products
02-14-2005, 06:41 AM
Not So Fast, do you know what caused the reversion issue with the brand you heard about? Did the water come back up through the muff from the transom or was too much h2o being held in the muff? Just curious.

Reaper1
02-14-2005, 07:48 AM
Good Info. guys. The transom of my Magic Cat looks exactly like Not So Fasts. I'll be in Havasu this weekend where my boat is if anybody needs any specific pics regarding muffler clearance issues. And I also agree that why would we want to spend a lot of money on something that I don't even want to put on my boat in the first place. Then again I wouldn't want any reversion problems. :confused:

Not So Fast
02-14-2005, 09:53 AM
Dana, good to have youaboard on this. the boat with out anynames being said was a cheetam fast cat that had a fresh custom motor at the start of last season, ran all season (well over 100hrs) and recently got nervous and stepped up for the GGB's (which model I dont know for sure) and had instant reversion. i can find out particulars if you want. i am not singleing out GGB because i like thier little shorty louver model but if and when i have to put these friggin things on my boat i certainly dont want reversion and a set of expensive mufflers that are now worth less NSF :2purples: :2purples:

Not So Fast
02-14-2005, 09:56 AM
By the way it had Imco Powerflow exh. Sorry for the spelling miscues, I'm all spooled up about this bulls--t NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

Dana Marine Products
02-14-2005, 10:49 AM
It sounds to me like the reversion happened due to the water getting backed up in the system. Hot rod motors with radical cams can have this problem fairly easy. Gibson's straight through design does not hold the water in, so reversion from water back up won't be a problem.

OutCole'd
02-14-2005, 07:54 PM
Not So Fast, that's a good point on the reversion issue. We tested alot of different muffling systems and we did not encounter any reversion problems, but I heard that Mercury is talking to boat manufacturers about this issue. I heard the use of some of the after market muffling systems will void Mercruiser warranties. Straight through design mufflers eliminate this potential.
So how do you find out which mufflers are approved by Mercury? According to Shawn at Gibson, the design of the Power Curve's prevent reversion.
I'm so confused....

Dana Marine Products
02-14-2005, 08:26 PM
I'll try not to make a mountain out of a mole hill, so here goes....Reversion can occur when the water backs up through the tip. Not all boats are the same, not all boats have this potential and it has a lot to do with tip location and exhaust routing. Tips without flaps can let water in when slowing down. The force of the water hitting the transom will drive a good amount of water up into the tip, which will flow into the exhaust hose. If the height of the riser is low enough compared to the water level around the boat, the water can get back up into the motor fairly easy. The taller the riser, the more it will help prevent this problem, along with having good flappers. The second method of reversion is if the exhaust system is causing the water ingestion problem. A leaking riser gasket (if there are water jackets through the riser flange), a cracked manifold or riser, or a plug in the water flow trying to get out of the system can also cause reversion. If any of the above situations are happening it doesn't matter if you are driving 70 MPH, stopping, or idling, the water is going to get in the motor. Reversion simply means water is getting into the motor, how it's getting in is the question. Some of the most recent concerns are that some of the after market muffling systems are not letting the water out fast enough. Mercruiser engines pump a serious amount of water through the exhaust, under high speeds when the pump is really spoolin' you don't want to stop that water from getting out. It will simply pool up in the exhaust hose and keep backing up in the system. At high rpm's there's a lot of exhaust air pressure to blow the water out. But after a hard pass when the water gets backed up and then you come down on idle the engine can literally suck that water back into the motor. Cams have valve overlap, there's a mili-second when the piston is coming back down and the exhaust valve is still open and it draws air through the exhaust. If water is present, it'll take that right in with it. The higher the compression and the bigger the cam, the worse the potential is for this to happen. The water doesn't always have to come from the tips, there's plenty of water in the system to cause a problem if it's not delt with properly. I hope that helps a little. Some what long and boring, but it's an answer. I believe Sean is suggesting that the Power Curves when installed will help eliminate the surge of water hitting the transom. By eliminating that surge, you help prevent water being forced back up through the tips. The water would simply be hitting the backside of the stainless down turn.