How far back??

[steelcomp]

I'm getting ready to start trial fitting my intake and wondering what determains how far back to set it? I've decided not to use the transom as a limit.
Thanks in advance for any input. :coffeycup

[Boy Named Sue]

You never lurk on the Sandbar do you? You should. :hammer2:

[BrendellaJet]

Study your intake before cutting. My intake(Jacuzzi) had about an inch of material all the way around it that would rest on the hulls floor, so I had to leave an inch of floor inside the transom for the intake to rest on. Hope that helps...

[steelcomp]

You never lurk on the Sandbar do you? You should. :hammer2:
I see a bunch of nonsense...why, what's up???

[Boy Named Sue]

I see a bunch of nonsense...why, what's up???
Complete and total nonsense. You're always on these tech threads so I started one on Sandbar for you but your head is too deep in the sand to find it. You do believe in nonsense don't you?

[Ken F]

I'm getting ready to start trial fitting my intake and wondering what determains how far back to set it? I've decided not to use the transom as a limit.
Thanks in advance for any input.
Steelcomp,
Personally I think you are on the right page with your transom thought!
When I did mine, I set it back far enough that the handhole was about an inch outside the transom. This meant completly cutting through the transom. A lot of people advised not to because it would be "impossible to seal" but I never had any problems with it. Don't know what type pump you have, but you also might want to take into consideration while you are in the planning stage the final shape of your transom plates which you are going to have to make. Mine were a bitch to get to fit well against the shape of the intake housing.
Ken F

[steelcomp]

Ken, could you direct me to some pics of your jet install re: transom plates, set back, etc. or post some up to look at? thanks. Anyone else for that matter. I've seen so many good ideas on this board, and gather good info from each and every one.
Thanks again. :coffeycup Steelcomp,
Personally I think you are on the right page with your transom thought!
When I did mine, I set it back far enough that the handhole was about an inch outside the transom. This meant completly cutting through the transom. A lot of people advised not to because it would be "impossible to seal" but I never had any problems with it. Don't know what type pump you have, but you also might want to take into consideration while you are in the planning stage the final shape of your transom plates which you are going to have to make. Mine were a bitch to get to fit well against the shape of the intake housing.
Ken F

[sdba069]

I agree with setting it all the way out. I think I mentioned before on another thread that that's how I do all mine and never have a problem. I usually set mine either with the back edge of the shoe even with the rear of the boat or the front edge of the ride plate even with the back of the boat, just according to what it all looks like. Something else I've started doing over the past few years is use 1/4" fiberglass panels for the plates. I built a mold and was making the plates 1 set at a time and figured out it wasn't worth it to do it that way, so I went to a boat builder who had a chopper gun and had him start laying up 4' X 8' fiberglass panels from which I cut my plates. The glass is so much easier to work with and it paints nicely. Also, I don't use the stock steering tube. I use a Detmar splashwell mounting kit. I do not install it through the transom plates, but just to the side in the transom itself. The Detmar # is 4-305P and it comes with the stainless clevis or the end of the steering cable. Hope this helps.

[cyclone]

I agree with setting it all the way out. I think I mentioned before on another thread that that's how I do all mine and never have a problem. I usually set mine either with the back edge of the shoe even with the rear of the boat or the front edge of the ride plate even with the back of the boat, just according to what it all looks like. Something else I've started doing over the past few years is use 1/4" fiberglass panels for the plates. I built a mold and was making the plates 1 set at a time and figured out it wasn't worth it to do it that way, so I went to a boat builder who had a chopper gun and had him start laying up 4' X 8' fiberglass panels from which I cut my plates. The glass is so much easier to work with and it paints nicely. Also, I don't use the stock steering tube. I use a Detmar splashwell mounting kit. I do not install it through the transom plates, but just to the side in the transom itself. The Detmar # is 4-305P and it comes with the stainless clevis or the end of the steering cable. Hope this helps.
Got any pics of the plates installed?

[steelcomp]

I agree with setting it all the way out. I think I mentioned before on another thread that that's how I do all mine and never have a problem. I usually set mine either with the back edge of the shoe even with the rear of the boat or the front edge of the ride plate even with the back of the boat, just according to what it all looks like. Something else I've started doing over the past few years is use 1/4" fiberglass panels for the plates. I built a mold and was making the plates 1 set at a time and figured out it wasn't worth it to do it that way, so I went to a boat builder who had a chopper gun and had him start laying up 4' X 8' fiberglass panels from which I cut my plates. The glass is so much easier to work with and it paints nicely. Also, I don't use the stock steering tube. I use a Detmar splashwell mounting kit. I do not install it through the transom plates, but just to the side in the transom itself. The Detmar # is 4-305P and it comes with the stainless clevis or the end of the steering cable. Hope this helps.
Pictures, please!

[Ken F]

Ken, could you direct me to some pics of your jet install re: transom plates, set back, etc. or post some up to look at? thanks. Anyone else for that matter. I've seen so many good ideas on this board, and gather good info from each and every one.
Thanks again. :coffeycup
Give this a try...If you have any more that you would like to see, let me know & I'll see about emailing them to you
http://community.webshots.com/user/kenf100/
Ken F

[anger management]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/showphoto.php?photo=65148 heres my set up I beleive it was 4 inches back ,setting the shoe even with the transum,We set a brace across the pump opening and cut the bottom out then patched the front. This is supposed to be the hot set up ,,works for me, having the clean out outide is nice also impellar acsses is a snap.We used a 2 peace alluminum plate and cut it to fit around the intake+suction peace I and several other jet guys i know have been running this set for years with no problems

[Duane HTP]

Steelcomp, Send me your email address, and I'll send you some pictures.

[steelcomp]

Thanks guys...I'm only getting red X's for pics. If you don't mind I'll PM you my email.
I don' think I want my handhole outside the boat. My Bahner has a pod extension, and there's a pretty good angle on the transom, as well, so if I get the handhole outside, the back of the intake opening is actually outside the transom as well. Any thoughts on this??

[anger management]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2309Picture_121-med.jpg here it is

[steelcomp]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2309Picture_121-med.jpg here it is
Thanks!! :D

[anger management]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2309Picture_120-med.jpg heres another crappy picture

[cyclone]

[QUOTE=steelcomp]Thanks guys...I'm only getting red X's for pics. If you don't mind I'll PM you my email.
I don' think I want my handhole outside the boat. My Bahner has a pod extension, and there's a pretty good angle on the transom, as well, so if I get the handhole outside, the back of the intake opening is actually outside the transom as well. Any thoughts on this??[/QUOTE
Have you considered shortening the pod instead of setting the intake back as far? I've seen it done to a couple of southwind td's and placecrafts and it worked out well.

[steelcomp]

[QUOTE=steelcomp]Thanks guys...I'm only getting red X's for pics. If you don't mind I'll PM you my email.
I don' think I want my handhole outside the boat. My Bahner has a pod extension, and there's a pretty good angle on the transom, as well, so if I get the handhole outside, the back of the intake opening is actually outside the transom as well. Any thoughts on this??[/QUOTE
Have you considered shortening the pod instead of setting the intake back as far? I've seen it done to a couple of southwind td's and placecrafts and it worked out well.
Actually, at one point I was thinking of extending it. I think there's a lot to be said for the pod extension, and what it does. If I was really into tearing up this hull, I'd make it similar to a SWTD afa the pod.
I think I've figured out what I'm going to do here. Thanks for all the help and pics. Most appreciated!! :D :coffeycup

[steelcomp]

I agree with setting it all the way out. I think I mentioned before on another thread that that's how I do all mine and never have a problem. I usually set mine either with the back edge of the shoe even with the rear of the boat or the front edge of the ride plate even with the back of the boat, just according to what it all looks like. Something else I've started doing over the past few years is use 1/4" fiberglass panels for the plates. I built a mold and was making the plates 1 set at a time and figured out it wasn't worth it to do it that way, so I went to a boat builder who had a chopper gun and had him start laying up 4' X 8' fiberglass panels from which I cut my plates. The glass is so much easier to work with and it paints nicely. Also, I don't use the stock steering tube. I use a Detmar splashwell mounting kit. I do not install it through the transom plates, but just to the side in the transom itself. The Detmar # is 4-305P and it comes with the stainless clevis or the end of the steering cable. Hope this helps.
Gary...thanks for all that. Have you ever hreard of a material called G10? It's fiberglass sheet that's laid up in a high density layup and is used in industrial app's. It comes in thicknesses from .030 all the way to 1/2" and thicker, I think, and meets real stringent standards afa thickness tolerances and construction. I'm going to use it in the bottom in front of the intake to fill the hole instead of an aluminum plate. If you're interested I can get more details on it. PM me.

[Jeanyus]

Steel, I'm pretty sure I sent you these pics, but here is mine. The transom plate cuts across the hand hole just in front of the bolts that hold the cover down.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5859hydralic.jpg
I had to put the steering through the transom plate, otherwise it would have to go way off to the side to get it off the pod.
That fiberglass plate sounds like a good idea. Got any pictures?

[anger management]

Steel, I'm pretty sure I sent you these pics, but here is mine. The transom plate cuts across the hand hole just in front of the bolts that hold the cover down.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5859hydralic.jpg
I had to put the steering through the transom plate, otherwise it would have to go way off to the side to get it off the pod.
That fiberglass plate sounds like a good idea. Got any pictures?
what hull is that .this is what im thinking about for my southwind tunnel.

[steelcomp]

Steel, I'm pretty sure I sent you these pics, but here is mine. The transom plate cuts across the hand hole just in front of the bolts that hold the cover down.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5859hydralic.jpg
I had to put the steering through the transom plate, otherwise it would have to go way off to the side to get it off the pod.
That fiberglass plate sounds like a good idea. Got any pictures?
I thought that fiberglass was a good idea...till I priced it out. I used to wortk with a lot of it when I was a machinist for a certain company, and it's definately cool stuff, but it's also $70.00/sq.ft fotr the 3/8 thick sheet. I'm going to have to see if there's anything more reasonable that's adequate. I'm just not sold on a piece of aluminum.
Here's the fiberglass G10/FR4 if you want to check it out. http://k-mac-plastics.net/epoxyglas-g10-fr4.htm

[sdba069]

Hey SC.... I pay $75 for a 4' X 8' X 1/4" sheet of fiberglass that was laid up with primer on the finished side so that it's ready to be sanded and painted. It's fairly smooth fiberglass on the backside. Let me know the dimensions you need and I'll cut you out a piece and send it to you for the freight. I've never used any of that stuff you are talking about. I would never put a piece of aluminum in there to fill the hole anyway. Sometimes you can take the piece you cutout behind the intake and use it to partially fill the hole. If I don't have a piece to fill with, I'll tape a piece of wax paper across the opening and cut pieces of woven roven to fill the hole and lay it in in layers. Once the resin kicks, you can come in and do the finish work or cosmetics. I didn't mention that it's a good idea to run a sander around the outside area of the area to be filled, inside and outside, then lay 2 or 3 layers of cloth across the patch and onto the area around the patch to help tie it in and give it a little more support. Basically, you'll be overlaying and underlaying the patch so as to tie it into the original material. I'll attach a couple of pictures of a boat I just put plates on. It didn't get a setback. Also the size of these plates is larger because we are covering the area where there was a transom cover. If I do the cutout for the pump, I make it just large enough for the pump to slide through. That makes for a little cleaner installation. Never mind the attachments, it won't let me load them. Send me your email and I'll send them to you.

[jdf]

you made one for pebble's

[Jeanyus]

what hull is that .this is what im thinking about for my southwind tunnel.
The hull is a Bahner tunnel bottom, real similer to a Southwind tunnel.

[BrendellaJet]

... I'm just not sold on a piece of aluminum.
seems to work for a lot of other people... If you think about it, it actually ends up working very well and should not leak even if you screw it up. If you bolt the aluminum panel to the intake when installing, there is plenty of sea goin poxy underneath it. Sandwich the section you cut out underneath it and fill any voids with poxy...you end up with a lot of epoxy under there and virtually no way for it to leak... If it didn't work, do you think Jack would do it that way? It's cheaper than glassing, faster and works just as good.

[sdba069]

Whatever works for you. I like the way I do it and I've liked it for better than 25 years. The glass is very strong and I'll tell you from experience that you couldn't knock it loose with a 12# sledge hammer, but that epoxy will fly. Not knocking Jack at all, have tons of respect for his work, especially with the CP 18's. If you've been around pumps a lot, you've bound to have seen the epoxy crack out around the intake, it will do the same thing around that filler piece. I use glass to do the bulk of it, then dyna-glass for the finish work. The key to it working right is tying the patch area back into the hull around it. Anyway, I'm repeating myself. More power to ya.

[BrendellaJet]

Nope not knockin anyone. Just seems easier thats all. Ive not been around pumps long, all I know is my boat was 30 years old when I pulled the intake out and it did not go willingly!

[HammerDown]

This works great, how Jack recommended I should do it....solid as a rock.
I bolted the 1/4" Aluminum plate to the intake and also used the piece of hull (grinded clean) to aid as a filler underneath.

[steelcomp]

Everybody's posted great info here, and to all of you that have sent me pics, I REALLY appreciate your time and help. There are as many ways to do this as there are people who have done it, and you can be sure that by the time I get done, there will be yet another way!! There are two reasons I question aluminum as a structural tie and they are, 1, thermal expansion differences between f glass and alum, and 2, adhesion of f glass to alum. I know all the preperations and procedures to get f glass to stick to metal, but the bottom line is, fiberglass would work better sticking to fiberglass, especially if it was a piece that was comparably as strong as the alum. Like sbda says, the real strength in the patch is tying the patch into the existing hull. Then, what you have filling the hole is really nothing more than that...just a filler. The aluminum and f glass working at different rates against eachother, buried within that f glass is what gives me the most question. I'm sure that the aluminum will work completely adequately, and has for years, but I'm the type that's always looking to optimize.
Thanks for all the great input here. :coffeycup

[Jake W2]

I am with Gary on this REGLASS the front of the intake hole it is easy .If I had a SWTD or that alike with a pod ext I would think about cutting the pod so it is stock on the bottom but an angel to the top to get the whole had hole cover out,then reglass sides to meet the pump and make alum transom plates.
Jake

[BrendellaJet]

Everybody's posted great info here, and to all of you that have sent me pics, I REALLY appreciate your time and help. There are as many ways to do this as there are people who have done it, and you can be sure that by the time I get done, there will be yet another way!! There are two reasons I question aluminum as a structural tie and they are, 1, thermal expansion differences between f glass and alum, and 2, adhesion of f glass to alum. I know all the preperations and procedures to get f glass to stick to metal, but the bottom line is, fiberglass would work better sticking to fiberglass, especially if it was a piece that was comparably as strong as the alum. Like sbda says, the real strength in the patch is tying the patch into the existing hull. Then, what you have filling the hole is really nothing more than that...just a filler. The aluminum and f glass working at different rates against eachother, buried within that f glass is what gives me the most question. I'm sure that the aluminum will work completely adequately, and has for years, but I'm the type that's always looking to optimize.
Thanks for all the great input here. :coffeycup
well, You do it the way you want to. Its your boat! :wink:
You better go remake your intake piece too then, its aluminum. Expansion rates? C'mon! There will not be enough temp here to bring expansion rates into play. The aluminum doesn't even touch fiberglass, it touches the epoxy, as does your intake.
Just thought Id clear that up for the people who are on the fence... :argue:

[steelcomp]

well, You do it the way you want to. Its your boat!
Well, thank you. I'm glad I have your permission.
I don't have a choice afa what my pump, intake, suction piece is made of. I do have a choice about what to tie the front of my intake in with. Sorry that seems to bother you. Aluminum plate will work, like I said, just not optimal.