BEAR_454PE -loader pics

[sanger rat]

I don't know a thing about this loader. Bought it off Ebay. Going to try it on my Hydro. I'm not sure if the center blocker will work for me. I was looking for a top loader that had long front stingers. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/1937pic0l4.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/1937pic0l3.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/1937pic0l1.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/1937pic0l2.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/1937pic0l0.jpg

[jamessampica]

If i'm looking at this right. That is way to much {V} blocker in my oppion{SP} and i think it will starve the pump for water.Just my .02 cent's.LATER!!!!
JIM S.

[flat broke]

Yeah,
Forget calling it a v-blocker, just call it a closed center loader :D obviously you paid for it, so run it and see what happens, but make sure you have a way to read your suction housing pressure before and after you swap that deal in. On the bright side, it might create a little lift back there ;)
Chris

[Heatseeker]

My loader started out like that one. I couldn't launch hard without cavitating the pump. I've since removed the v-block and the boat leaves alot harder now.

[UBFJ #454]

sanger rat -
Thank You for posting up the Loader Pictures! ... I thought I saw something that I didn't quite understand in the reflection of the picture of your original Post.
Check your PM's.
Jak

[OkieDave]

I have several loaders similar to that one where the two flat outside pieces extend so far forward that there's a hole thru which to acces the rear two mounting bolts. The loaders I use have the flat piece cut back far enough that you can get to those bolts without those holes. I have never tried those loaders whith the extended ramps. would they be worth trying?

[kojac]

My loader started out like that one. I couldn't launch hard without cavitating the pump. I've since removed the v-block and the boat leaves alot harder now.
I had the same experience. I slowly started to remove the metal and started to cut back on the v a little at a time. and inproved my hole shot tremendously. I made a duplicate one cut to the point where the improvement stopped. I used the second one in my sterling.
The only way you know for sure is to try it. good luck.
Kojac

[Jet Hydro]

Sanger Rat save yourself a lot of trouble here and forget about using that loader and taking a chance in trashing your pump and boat. From one hydro owner to another I can tell ya what your going to do if you try that thing out.
1. Your going to air out your pump and jack hammer it to death.
2. Depending on how fast your hydro is, your going to have your tail try to swap ends on ya and that's no fun in a hydro.
3. on shut down, "hang on" cause it`s going to be a ride your never going to forget!
4. Don't try this loader unless you have someone standing by to help ya out if the shit hit`s the fan! Your going to have so much tail lift that on shut down your going out the front of your boat cause your tail is going to grab the water as it goes back down.
5. Your going to be cavitating the pump on launch
I`ll try to find you a picture of the one I used.
What makes you think you need a closed loader? I might be able to help you out.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4213P1020844-med.JPG
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4213P1020843-med.JPG

[jim@pj]

Sanger Rat, There is too much blocker in that loader. I have three, a full blocker, a 1/2 blocker and an open. Every angle is exact and the finish is a marine powder coat. They are gauranteed. If you are running big HP you may want to stick with the open. It depends on your set up and what you are trying to accomplish. Check the White Lightning at www.performancejet.com They work. Jim

[jamessampica]

Jak i hope you made that yourself and did'nt pay for it.I thought you and Mike was looking for more water not less.Oh well have fun!!!!!The racing thing is not going to happen.But you guy's and gal's have fun and be safe.
JIM S

[sanger rat]

I'm listening to everbody but this boat is different. This is what I ran last year and it worked ok untill I put the shoe & ride plate on. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1937pic01l4.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1937pic01l3.jpg I wanted close to the same but a top loader. My hull does not have a bubble in it. It is flat before the intake. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1937picsrp5.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1937picpump1.jpg These cavitation burns happened after the shoe&ride plate with the old bottom loader. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1937pic0i6.jpg Can anybody see my logic? I never had a problem with shut down. Straight as a arrow.

[flat broke]

I'm listening to everbody but this boat is different. This is what I ran last year and it worked ok untill I put the shoe & ride plate on. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1937pic01l4.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1937pic01l3.jpg I wanted close to the same but a top loader. My hull does not have a bubble in it. It is flat before the intake. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1937picsrp5.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1937picpump1.jpg These cavitation burns happened after the shoe&ride plate with the old bottom loader. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1937pic0i6.jpg Can anybody see my logic? I never had a problem with shut down. Straight as a arrow.
I don't see your logic. By running a blocker you will be increasing your cavitation. Did you measure where your biting edge of the intake was before you converted to a shoe/rideplate setup? Sounds like you might have raised the bitting edge up a bit with the shoe causing you to get less water in than before. I'd try shimming your shoe before running that blocker... but since the blocker is paid for, might as well give it a try; it would just go against conventional setup techniques if it halfway worked. The shutdown problem Jet Hydro was talking about will come with the new loader as it will lift your center pod(whatever the hell you want to call it on a jet hydro) and when you let off the gas, that lift will subside dropping everything down and increasing drag quickly... kinda like slamming the brakes.
before you do any more "testing" get a pressure gauge rigged up on your suction housing so you can keep track of the changes with more than just a "seat of the pants" log of what transpired.
Chris

[sanger rat]

I had a pressure gauge hooked up. Most I ever seen was 24 psi. :confused:

[disco_charger]

Sanger Rat save yourself a lot of trouble here and forget about using that loader and taking a chance in trashing your pump and boat. From one hydro owner to another I can tell ya what your going to do if you try that thing out.
1. Your going to air out your pump and jack hammer it to death.
2. Depending on how fast your hydro is, your going to have your tail try to swap ends on ya and that's no fun in a hydro.
3. on shut down, "hang on" cause it`s going to be a ride your never going to forget!
4. Don't try this loader unless you have someone standing by to help ya out if the shit hit`s the fan! Your going to have so much tail lift that on shut down your going out the front of your boat cause your tail is going to grab the water as it goes back down.
5. Your going to be cavitating the pump on launch
I`ll try to find you a picture of the one I used.
What makes you think you need a closed loader? I might be able to help you out.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4213P1020844-med.JPG
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4213P1020843-med.JPG
Dude, you should probably listen to this guy. I wouldn't run that in my boat, but I have a different V. This guy is racing his, has the same hull, and listed a bunch of things here which all equal at the bare minimum a swim! :sqeyes:

[Jet Hydro]

I tried to tell ya what your going to find out by using that loader. I know Jet Hydro`s well even Sanger's, trust me!!!! I have spent thousands in R&D of thses boats and I know what really works and what don't. I have talked to the Guy that designed your boat many times. You do what you want it`s your boat and your life. When you set-up wrong, this is what you get...
Hondo Jet Hydro
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/208Waco_race_2.bmp
Sanger Jet Hydro
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/208jet.bmp

[Jet Hydro]

I had a pressure gauge hooked up. Most I ever seen was 24 psi. :confused:
Your not even gona see that if you go with a closed loader.

[Squirtin Thunder]

I don't see your logic. By running a blocker you will be increasing your cavitation. Did you measure where your biting edge of the intake was before you converted to a shoe/rideplate setup? Sounds like you might have raised the bitting edge up a bit with the shoe causing you to get less water in than before. I'd try shimming your shoe before running that blocker... but since the blocker is paid for, might as well give it a try; it would just go against conventional setup techniques if it halfway worked. The shutdown problem Jet Hydro was talking about will come with the new loader as it will lift your center pod(whatever the hell you want to call it on a jet hydro) and when you let off the gas, that lift will subside dropping everything down and increasing drag quickly... kinda like slamming the brakes.
before you do any more "testing" get a pressure gauge rigged up on your suction housing so you can keep track of the changes with more than just a "seat of the pants" log of what transpired.
Chris
Chris
Those picks don't show the shoe. He has the same Sanger intake that I have and the stock bitting edge is slightly below the keel, cu.t hair.
I think his plan is kind of back wards on this project. It seems he wants more transom lift like a real drag hydro and this boat has to be treated like a tunnel or a V. He is going to nose it over too far. He needs to carry the sponsons to make the Sanger ski jet hydro work right and also to be safe. He also has one of those bolt on shoes that drop the bitting edge bigtime.
Jim

[Duane HTP]

" I had a pressure gauge hooked up. Most I ever seen was 24 psi. "
Stop and think! Look at what you just told yourself here. 24 lbs of intake pressure and you're fixing to cut down the water to it??? I don't think so.

[sanger rat]

Dude, you should probably listen to this guy. I wouldn't run that in my boat, but I have a different V. This guy is racing his, has the same hull, and listed a bunch of things here which all equal at the bare minimum a swim! :sqeyes:
I'm listening to everybody but Jet Hydro's Hondo is nowhere near anything like my hull. I have a hydro but its a tunnel hull too. My boat has to ride on the front sponsons unlike other tunnel hulls. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1937pic006.jpg Ask anybody how to set this boat up and they throw their hands up in the air.

[Jet Hydro]

Ask anybody how to set this boat up and they throw their hands up in the air. Not really. Bring that boat to ME :D
This is how your boat should ride, just like mine!
((sponsons just ticking the water!))
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/208Waco_By_KC-Lake_Rat-med.bmp

[Jet Hydro]

Look at it this way .... you have a Jet not a V-Drive Hydro so you have no Ruder, What ya gona do when the ass end wants to swap ends? "go for a swim!" with less tail in the water thats what it`s gona wanta do.
A Jet Hydro has a very fine line on tail lift and sponson lift. You have to find that line by doing some home work drawing some lines to see just where your at to start out

[flat broke]

Chris
Those picks don't show the shoe. He has the same Sanger intake that I have and the stock bitting edge is slightly below the keel, cu.t hair.
I think his plan is kind of back wards on this project. It seems he wants more transom lift like a real drag hydro and this boat has to be treated like a tunnel or a V. He is going to nose it over too far. He needs to carry the sponsons to make the Sanger ski jet hydro work right and also to be safe. He also has one of those bolt on shoes that drop the bitting edge bigtime.
Jim
Jim,
I don't know where exactly you're going with this, so I'll just post my observations. Regardless of if it's a tunnelesque hydro or a more conventional jet hydro like Jet Hydro's Hondo, once you start inducing tail lift, you upset the balance of the handling (I think this is what you were trying to say). Additionally, even if the blocker loader didn't hurt the pump loading through the blocker action of that V in the middle, it would adversely affect it because the added tail lift could raise the intake to the point where it's suckin air.
The bottom line is that this stuff has to be looked at from 2 standpoints. 1st is safety, 2nd is experimentation. First and foremost, he has to take a safe approach to his testing. Knowing that loader is going to induce more lift, throttle and extra speed should be induced very carefully and in small increments to get acquinted with what the boat could decide to do. If the boat is already running a good number, the safety issue might dictate that you just wouldn't fool around with such a drastic change at those speeds.
But from an experimentation standpoint, it never hurts to try something different. Trial and error is the basis of the scientific method. You postulate a hypothesis, test it, then in the face of test results modify your hypothesis, once that is tested and supported, it becomes a theory. Even with all that said, many times you won't benefit from reinventing the wheel. And that brings me to my closing point. If these boats hauled ass and did it well, they'd still be made, or at least present in larger numbers. Jet Hydro has taken plenty of crap over his hull choice, but he's doing it to see if it can be done, not because he wants to go X mph in X seconds. So if Sanger Rat is trying to build an X second drag boat, perhaps a different hull is in order. If he is just trying to make the hull he has as quick/fast as possible with the means available to him, then by all means tinker away and good luck. Just use some common sense with the underwater hardware. Less room for water to come in = less suction pressure and less water comming out. Add more lift at the intake, run the risk of inducing more air into the suction housing.
Chris

[Squirtin Thunder]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirtin Thunder
Chris
Those picks don't show the shoe. He has the same Sanger intake that I have and the stock bitting edge is slightly below the keel, cu.t hair.
I think his plan is kind of back wards on this project. It seems he wants more transom lift like a real drag hydro and this boat has to be treated like a tunnel or a V. He is going to nose it over too far. He needs to carry the sponsons to make the Sanger ski jet hydro work right and also to be safe. He also has one of those bolt on shoes that drop the bitting edge bigtime.
Jim
Chris,
Good points !!! He gained speed when he put the shoe and loader on but the angle of atack seems a bit off to me. If you stuff the nose too much like a real hydro it will turn being it doesn't have a 2' rudder. That is my main point.
JIm
Jim,
I don't know where exactly you're going with this, so I'll just post my observations. Regardless of if it's a tunnelesque hydro or a more conventional jet hydro like Jet Hydro's Hondo, once you start inducing tail lift, you upset the balance of the handling (I think this is what you were trying to say). Additionally, even if the blocker loader didn't hurt the pump loading through the blocker action of that V in the middle, it would adversely affect it because the added tail lift could raise the intake to the point where it's suckin air.
The bottom line is that this stuff has to be looked at from 2 standpoints. 1st is safety, 2nd is experimentation. First and foremost, he has to take a safe approach to his testing. Knowing that loader is going to induce more lift, throttle and extra speed should be induced very carefully and in small increments to get acquinted with what the boat could decide to do. If the boat is already running a good number, the safety issue might dictate that you just wouldn't fool around with such a drastic change at those speeds.
But from an experimentation standpoint, it never hurts to try something different. Trial and error is the basis of the scientific method. You postulate a hypothesis, test it, then in the face of test results modify your hypothesis, once that is tested and supported, it becomes a theory. Even with all that said, many times you won't benefit from reinventing the wheel. And that brings me to my closing point. If these boats hauled ass and did it well, they'd still be made, or at least present in larger numbers. Jet Hydro has taken plenty of crap over his hull choice, but he's doing it to see if it can be done, not because he wants to go X mph in X seconds. So if Sanger Rat is trying to build an X second drag boat, perhaps a different hull is in order. If he is just trying to make the hull he has as quick/fast as possible with the means available to him, then by all means tinker away and good luck. Just use some common sense with the underwater hardware. Less room for water to come in = less suction pressure and less water comming out. Add more lift at the intake, run the risk of inducing more air into the suction housing.
Chris

[UBFJ #454]

JIM S Posted:
"Jak i hope you made that yourself and did'nt pay for it.I thought you and Mike was looking for more water not less."
Jim -
I'm not sure what you meant in your post ... As you know Mike & I design and build all our own loaders as well as do our own keel work. And yes, we are looking for More Water, Not Less ... Much More Water.
I saw something (a reflection) in sanger rat's original picture post on another thread that I didn't understand ... That's why I asked him to post up some more pictures of his loader (which he was kind enough to do ... Thanks Again sanger).
We 'Think' we have our water problem about solved with the slight modifications we've made to our suite of loaders and keel (keel probably will have to have another 0.100 th or so taken off of it to optimize?) over the winter ... Will know if we're there or not after the first few runs at Ming in March.
Jak

[UBFJ #454]

sanger rat -
Sorry we haven't been able to hook up on the phone ... Like you, I've been pretty busy over the past few days. If you still want to talk let's try over the weekend ... BBR's # is (602) 234-1818 ... I received your # and will try to contact you as it won't cost me anything ... Cell and all.