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View Full Version : Free Rein in L.A



slink
02-16-2005, 05:15 PM
Everybody jump in your cars and wreak havoc in L.A. That includes using your car as a deadly weapon. Mayor Hahn and his puppet Bratton just announced LAPD can no longer fire on suspects in vehicles, all because a 13 year old "honor" student stole a car and tried to run over an officer. Whats even a bigger joke is all the "Community leaders" who said they are going to "police" thier own streets and if they find a juvenile out at all hours of the night they will take them home. Lets see how fast they react when one of them get shot at......what a friggin joke. First rubber flashlight and now this...man do I feel sorry for my brothers in blue in LA and for the decent citizens as well.

HCS
02-16-2005, 05:19 PM
That is stupid! How do they expect to keep all the thugs out of there.
All the freaks on parole are going to move to LA. :220v:

markc
02-16-2005, 05:22 PM
It sounds like Hahn is looking for votes from the "local" community, what a joke huh! so I guess its ok to run over a cop in your vehicle, because you wont get shot at :mad:

Kilrtoy
02-16-2005, 05:26 PM
WHATS a FLASHLIGHT.......
next thing you know, the police cant arrest anyone with out the nation of islams consent....

Infomaniac
02-16-2005, 05:40 PM
You wont find those BS laws in Oklahoma. :notam:

Ziggy
02-16-2005, 05:42 PM
Imagine what would come down the pipe if the kid had survived the shooting?
The next generation Rodney :rolleyes:

Garrddogg
02-16-2005, 05:48 PM
What A Bunch Of Fcuking Siht!

Dawn Patrol
02-16-2005, 05:51 PM
How in the H&ll can the Police do their job with both hands tied behind thier backs? The Police should be able to do "What ever is Necessary" to get the job done!
This politically Correct BS needs to stop!!! :lightsabe
Why would anyone want to become a Cop with all of the BS?
For those who wear the Badge, Thank You.

redi4fun
02-16-2005, 05:53 PM
Are the new guidelines absolute or do the officers have no discretion whatsoever???? Why have cops if you cannot trust them to make the best decision that they possibly can given the situation they are in. JUST NOT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! :hammerhea

sneed
02-16-2005, 05:54 PM
Its all bs the kid did steal a car at 3 am didnt he,if he wasnt dioing anything wrong he wouldnt of been shot at .

CA Stu
02-16-2005, 05:58 PM
Tough issue, but I don't belive that anyone wanted to execute a 13 yr old for stealing a car. That's a bit extreme.
Isn't it a fact that only one officer fired at him?
Didn't he unload 10 bullets, 5 into the kid's chest?
Bad judgment?
Or keeping the public safe?
You tell me.
I don't have a solution, but all the way around it's a bad situation.
Wearing a badge doesn't make a person superhuman, give them the power of clair voyance and automatically in the right at all times, but at the same time it doesn't make them wrong either.
They get held to a higher standard than the average Joe because when they make a mistake, it can be fatal...
Thanks
CA Stu

CA Stu
02-16-2005, 06:00 PM
The Police should be able to do "What ever is Necessary" to get the job done!
So shoplifting should be a capital offense?
We should chop people's hands off?
Puh-leeze.
Responsibility and accountability is a two way street, it has to be in a civilized society.
Having the right to do "whatever is necessary" smacks of Fascism.
No thanks.
Cheers
CA Stu

Kilrtoy
02-16-2005, 06:06 PM
If you think that is bad, Well tell this JACKASS ARNOLD gets ahold of the Police, Fireman's and teachers retirement....

Dawn Patrol
02-16-2005, 06:07 PM
So shoplifting should be a capital offense?
We should chop people's hands off?
Puh-leeze.
Responsibility and accountability is a two way street, it has to be in a civilized society.
Having the right to do "whatever is necessary" smacks of Fascism.
No thanks.
Cheers
CA Stu
Not at all..... If a Cops life is in Danger, he should do "Whatever is Necessary" to to protect himself and others.
Fascism, Puh-Leeze.

chub
02-16-2005, 06:10 PM
WHATS a FLASHLIGHT.......
next thing you know, the police cant arrest anyone with out the nation of islams consent....
Can I get an AMEN.
Let's see how they patrol themselves. They being the citizens in this area.

chub
02-16-2005, 06:13 PM
If you think that is bad, Well tell this JACKASS ARNOLD gets ahold of the Police, Fireman's and teachers retirement....
Part of my unions retirement is also on the blocks. We work in prisons and state run buildings. There gonna try and rape us also.

Dave C
02-16-2005, 06:18 PM
you guys in CALPEERS have the sweetest deal on the planet! If it gets trimmed even a little, which it won't, you still have the sweetest deal on the planet. ;)
I should have been a civil servant. :idea:
COLA's for your benefits, thats sweet!!!!.
check that... I forgot about the U.S. congress... they have the sweetest deal on the planet. :D
If you think that is bad, Well tell this JACKASS ARNOLD gets ahold of the Police, Fireman's and teachers retirement....

slink
02-16-2005, 06:25 PM
you guys in CALPEERS have the sweetest deal on the planet! If it gets trimmed even a little, which it won't, you still have the sweetest deal on the planet. ;)
I should have been a civil servant. :idea:
COLA's for your benefits, thats sweet!!!!.
check that... I forgot about the U.S. congress... they have the sweetest deal on the planet. :D
It sounds like its going to be a step program. Those of us that are vested and already have it will remain the same. It would only change for future new hires. Still alot of negotiations to go through before that happens, so lets keep our fingers crossed

Wavemaker
02-16-2005, 06:43 PM
What is L.A. coming to? L.A. Police Commission ties the Police Officer's hand from shooting at a moving vehicle after vehicle is stolen, involved in a short chase, driven onto the sidewalk, passenger exits and runs away, vehicle backs up toward a police officer and rams the police car? Did the Police Officer know the driver was a 13 year old boy? An honors student? I don't think so.
The L.A. Police Commission comes down on the side of the "victim"? This is just appeasement of the community leaders.
Should there be a "L.A. Criminal's Commission" set up to clarify the rules of engagement with LAPD?
This political correctness is going too far. How do you think the Police Officer involved feels about the events leading up to the shooting and, the L.A. Police Commission decision today?
Let's hope the upcoming election makes the needed changes in L.A.'s political leaders and get a some actual leadership installed in office.
Wavemaker

vdrivenman
02-16-2005, 06:55 PM
All You Cali Officers Need To Come To Texas.we Still Shootum & Ramum When They Run.
You May Beat The Rap, But You Won't Beat The Ride !!!!!!!!!!

SHOTKALLIN
02-16-2005, 06:59 PM
That is stupid! How do they expect to keep all the thugs out of there.
All the freaks on parole are going to move to LA. :220v:
I think that property value in L.A. will decline after the next riot. I think the next riot is right around the corner. Its a Product of the Media not reporting the hole story(baised toward the suspects).
Don't ever forget that Rodney King was a mere motorist. Stanley Miller is a Veteran who served his country(Stanley Miller was my Trusty in the County Vet module for a year prior to the incident. He told me that he is a car thief by trade and thats all he knows how to do.) When the D.A.'s office announced that they did not have enough evidence to prosecute the LAPD officer, thats all that was reported. They did not give a reason why. They didn't say that the video was shot at a bad angle or from too far away. Nor did they say that Miller's Injuries were inconsistant with what appeared on film.(he is claiming brain damage) It was like the D.A.'s statement was edited.
The media made the teen in the Inglewood beating look innocent by not showing BOTH videos (yes there are 2) the survellance video at the gas station was only showed once if at all because it shows the suspect challenging the officers to fight. the media is also saying that he is mentally challenged. Plus the officer is getting a Million +.
And now Devon Brown the sweet little 13 year car thief gang member who rammed a black and white after a pursuit on the fwy at 3:45am.
So to kiss the black community's ass in a weak attempt to get re-elected mayor Hahn has forced Bratton to change police tacticts to endanger the lives of citizens and officers.
So glad to be living in the 951...
SK

Kilrtoy
02-16-2005, 07:00 PM
It sounds like its going to be a step program. Those of us that are vested and already have it will remain the same. Still alot of negotiations to go through before that happens, so lets keep our fingers crossed
OH DONT BE FOOLED, THAT IS WHAT HE WANTS YOU TO THINK,
It affects everyone working TODAY.....
It would only change for future new hires.
THAT IS BULLSHIT......

slink
02-16-2005, 07:08 PM
OH DONT BE FOOLED, THAT IS WHAT HE WANTS YOU TO THINK,
It affects everyone working TODAY.....
It would only change for future new hires.
THAT IS BULLSHIT......
HMMM, from the last legislative update meeting I was at in Sacto along with PORAC and Assemblyman Spitzer I heard different. But like I said, Looooong way to go

THATJEFFGUY
02-16-2005, 07:16 PM
Who gives a good $hit how old this thug was ! Whether he was 13 or not, he still disobeyed the law and put other lives in danger...he deserved to get shot ! Were the officers supposed to check his ID before they shot him ?? So let the "communiy leaders" "police" their own streets...and also redirect the phone lines in those particular areas for 911 calls to ring at one of the local community leaders' house, so they can take care of the emetgency calls for service too ! The LAPD officers need to lateral out to a REAL department !

SHOTKALLIN
02-16-2005, 07:30 PM
What is L.A. coming to? L.A. Police Commission ties the Police Officer's hand from shooting at a moving vehicle after vehicle is stolen, involved in a short chase, driven onto the sidewalk, passenger exits and runs away, vehicle backs up toward a police officer and rams the police car? Did the Police Officer know the driver was a 13 year old boy? An honors student? I don't think so.
The L.A. Police Commission comes down on the side of the "victim"? This is just appeasement of the community leaders.
Should there be a "L.A. Criminal's Commission" set up to clarify the rules of engagement with LAPD?
This political correctness is going too far. How do you think the Police Officer involved feels about the events leading up to the shooting and, the L.A. Police Commission decision today?
Let's hope the upcoming election makes the needed changes in L.A.'s political leaders and get a some actual leadership installed in office.
Wavemaker
there is NO ONE in politics that does not bend for political corectness. Not Arnold and not even Bush. We are just fukcked. Everyone is afraid to not get re-elected.
my .02

SHOTKALLIN
02-16-2005, 07:36 PM
The LAPD officers need to lateral out to a REAL department !
Whoa Nelly!!! Slow down and take a deep breath. Officers from fast stations transfer all the time and then complain about how slow it is working in Mayberry. Alot of good officers love thier job. They need a Chief to stand up to political correctness and I thought Bratton was the man but I guess not??? Is Daryll Gates still available??? :D

Flyinbowtie
02-16-2005, 07:57 PM
I have not seen the new policy in writing, but I would offer these thoughts.
Deadly Force Policies in California all are written with the same underlying foundation.
A peace officer is justified in using deadly force when he has reason to believe that his life or the life of another person is in immediate danger, or when he or another person is likely to suffer great bodily harm.
As a general rule peace officers don't have a great deal of time to make a deadly force decision. By nature, such decisions usually made in seconds.
Most officers who have made that decsion would tell you, were it not for the litigation pending against them, that there was literally no doubt in their mind at the time they made the decison to use deadly force. They would tell you that they were simply put in a place where the choice was made for them by the actions of another human being.The issue is very much a go/no-go scenario, with little or no question as to what was necessary.
I know of no agency in Ca. that has a policy that authorizes warning shots in any scenario.
When an officer engages a suspect with deadly force, he is not shooting to kill or wound. He is shooting to cause the aggression to stop. He is shooting to eliminate the threat to life.
If this officer determined he needed to fire more than one shot at an automoblie in an attempt to stop the driver of the automobile from running him over, then he should have the right to defend himself in such a manner. A good use of force investigation should be conducted, with a second agency serving as a check/balance.
If the new policy at LAPD prevents an officer from engaging a suspect using a motor vehicle as a deadly weapon, then I suspect there are a number of officers truly thinking about whether or not they can continue to serve the citizens of Los Angeles. I would be willing to bet that during those long commutes home, after the shift where they are briefed on this policy, there is some serious soul-searching going on.
There certainly would be if I was to serve under such a policy.
The next issue is this. The current stats in this state show that local law enforcement agencies are processing 100 applicants for entry level officer to find one candidate that will pass the psych, the written, the oral, and the background investigation. One of a hundred who will ultimately complete a basic police academy, and earn a Basic POST certificate (a license to be a peace officer) after completeing a Field Training Program, and completing one year of service.
When the tools and simple ability to survive are taken away from a peace officer, the quailty of the candidates for this profession will deteriorate dramatically. Trust me, they already have. Intelligent, dedicated people with the drive to serve will look at the odds agaiinst them and seek opportunities elsewhere. The citizens of this state will suffer for this.
Regarding the CalPers retirement system. Believe it or not, very few agencies are paying the kind of money that would attract quality people were it not for a stable retirement system. The education requirements, personal fitness requirements, dedication, working nghts weekends and holidays for years require the kind of person who can make a hell of a lot more money in the private sector had they not chosen to serve their community.
The retirement system is not a gift, it is not some fund that the state dumps money into, it is a portion of a negotiated wages and benefits package that is agreed upon by state bargaining unit, or the local employing agency, and it's employees. Most employees have a contribution to the system deducted from their checks that is matched by the employer (is a contract has been reached to require such a match.)
The money in the system does NOT belong to the government, or the taxpayers. It belongs to the people who put it there. THe employees who earned it.
Calpers has become the largest self funded retirement system in the world because the people doing the investing and managing the actuarials are intelligent, and are respected throughout the investment world.
CalPers has a very good idea how long they will pay out retirement benefits to peace officers who service retire after 25-30 years. They need to know this information because they need to know how much of an employee contribution will be necessary to have those funds in place when the peace officer arrives at the "Golden Years".
Right now, the average number of those "Golden Years" is less than 5.
The hard fact is that most cops live less than five years after a 25-30 year service retirement. One of the reasons is the policy mentioned above. The officer that killed that young felon will always see the little boy, and will never get over it.
Never.
You don't get out of this job physically, emotionally, or psycologically intact, or even close to the same person you were when you went in.
My wife would certainly tell you that.
We pay our peace officers to proect us, and do and see the things in lfe that we don't want to touch. We pay them to make the decisons in an instant that many of us couldn't make in a lifetime. We expect them to lead exemplary lives. In my opinion, we are getting one hell of a deal for our money.

slink
02-16-2005, 08:07 PM
Well put Bow Tie, I havn't seen the policy either, just going off what the Chief put out on the local news tonight. Can't belief thier union is just going to stand by on this one. We'll have to wait and see. BTW he did say the policy was molded after Miami PD's where "they havn't shot at a moving vehicle in over 25 years".

Dawn Patrol
02-16-2005, 08:09 PM
Flyinbowtie,
Exactly........

clownpuncher
02-16-2005, 08:15 PM
The LAPD officers need to lateral out to a REAL department !
It's already happening. Good cops too.
I have relatives on LAPD, suspended for doing a job. They wish they woulda went elsewhere when they had a chance.
Other than that, don't get me started :argue:

Kilrtoy
02-16-2005, 09:27 PM
HMMM, from the last legislative update meeting I was at in Sacto along with PORAC and Assemblyman Spitzer I heard different. But like I said, Looooong way to go
Our pres, the pres of San Jose and the Pres of Alhambra were in last week and they said the opposite, they were saying were are almost F@@@ED. They went to a big meeting later in the week in Sac and I havent talkeed to him yet. I have 13 to go and this is gonna suck....