alright guys im stumped

[JET-O-VATOR]

ok guys im lost. my boat keeps eating up ignition modules and I dont know why... last summer it ate 6 of them. i uncovered her about a month ago and put her in at puddingstone, she ran great even after sitting all winter all i did was change her oil. she ran great all day i drove her all the way back to the trailer. went to fire her up today because im going to perris saturday, if it doesnt rain, and no go. put yet another ignition module in her and she fired first flip of the key.. what the hell is causing this?? its been awhile since i posted so i will remind you all. she is a 76 brendella bubble deck with a 455 olds and a berkeley 12 jg..... :hammerhea im stumped i need to fix this, that or buy stock in the ignition module company.... :confused:

[jstwkd]

What voltage is the module seeing...What ign is it...I think most of the modules are supposed to be regulated to 9v..
I am geuss though need more info...

[Nucking futs]

Does it have a ballist resistor and have you checked the voltage to it?

[JET-O-VATOR]

im not sure what voltage is going to it. and its a stock hei distributer thats about as much as i know.

[Rexone]

Make sure you have good clean tight connections and no loose or dirty grounds. This is a primary cause of ignition failures and one that's hard to trace. Remember that anodize, paint, and dirty surfaces are all insulators to electricity.

[JET-O-VATOR]

yes it has a ballast resister directly off of the circuit breaker

[jstwkd]

You have t o run a relay between the power and the dist for hei...I will look for the wiring diagrham I have and post tomarrow...you will keep eating modules...Its been along time since i even looked at an hei but I remeber needing the relay to save the module..maybe someone else will chime in first
GM allways has everything biult into the harness...we used to do it when switching an older vehicle to a hei

[JET-O-VATOR]

Make sure you have good clean tight connections and no loose or dirty grounds. This is a primary cause of ignition failures and one that's hard to trace. Remember that anodize, paint, and dirty surfaces are all insulators to electricity.
thanx rex i did check all my grounds and all of the connections seemed fine. and also ever once in awhile after a hard run ill flick the key to kill her and she will keep running and i will have to pull the hot off of the distributer to kill her i dont know if these problems are related... the plans this last inter were to drop a different 455 that i have in her and rewire the whole boat but i built a 1450 toyota race truck instead i quess i should've put alil more time in to the boat.....

[jstwkd]

Check the voltage on both sides of the ballist...I think it should have at least a 3v drop on one side.12v in 9v out. It may be bad..I know 12v directly to an hei will burn up the mudule sooner or later

[REGISTERED USER]

Long shot, but I had a similar problem with an HEI in a car app.
After replacing several modules only to have them fail (we thought) a short time later, we found that one of the wires inside the distributor had a break in it. It moved enough when replacing the module for it to make contact again. After running awhile the connection would break and we'd replace the module, and again it would be good for a while. Our guess was that the vacuum advance eventually moved the coil enough for the connection to break.
Figure we threw away at least 4 good modules. :mad:
BTW, No ballast for an HEI, it's designed to operate on full 12V.

[JET-O-VATOR]

You have t o run a relay between the power and the dist for hei...I will look for the wiring diagrham I have and post tomarrow...you will keep eating modules...Its been along time since i even looked at an hei but I remeber needing the relay to save the module..maybe someone else will chime in first
GM allways has everything biult into the harness...we used to do it when switching an older vehicle to a hei
really hmmmmmm........ the diagram would help out alot

[JET-O-VATOR]

Long shot, but I had a similar problem with an HEI in a car app.
After replacing several modules only to have them fail (we thought) a short time later, we found that one of the wires inside the distributor had a break in it. It moved enough when replacing the module for it to make contact again. After running awhile the connection would break and we'd replace the module, and again it would be good for a while. Our guess was that the vacuum advance eventually moved the coil enough for the connection to break.
Figure we threw away at least 4 good modules. :mad:
BTW, No ballast for an HEI, it's designed to operate on full 12V.
ill look at that in the morning thanx

[REGISTERED USER]

You have t o run a relay between the power and the dist for hei...I will look for the wiring diagrham I have and post tomarrow...you will keep eating modules...Its been along time since i even looked at an hei but I remeber needing the relay to save the module..maybe someone else will chime in first
GM allways has everything biult into the harness...we used to do it when switching an older vehicle to a hei
In some 70's GM the ballast resistor was a special wire built into the harness, but those were on point ignitions not HEI.
The relay wasn't to save the HEI, but to supply it with ful 12 volts.
Retrofiting an HEI into a points car with the special wire used a relay, with the relay coil actuated by the special ballast wire to supply full 12 volts from the battery or other source to the HEI, without running a new wire all the way from the ignition switch.
I don't think supplying an HEI with less than 12 volts will cause anything more than poor performance. Don't see it as a cause of complete failure of the module, but I could be wrong.

[NELSON#109]

ive run hei's on several boats. both on chevy's and olds 455's. i ran my olds for over 350 hrs, with the same hei only changed the cap. the olds ran more than 120 hrs in one season. the chevy ran more than 100 hrs before i sold it, and never changed any thing. never had any problems w/ an hei. ive always wired them the same. only two wires to the hei, keyed power straieght from the ign., and tach. i have never used a ballast resister on an hei, and have never run a relay. ive never even heard of anyone doing it any other way, and have never heard anyone have troubles w/ the hei. thats one of the reasons they are popular. i would look closely at the ign. switch. if it stays runing some times after you shut it off, it may be causing a problem. but then again ive left my ign. on for long periods with no concerns or problems. i would guess there is a short problem somewhere, maybe inside the dist. most likely not grounding all of the time. good luck

[REGISTERED USER]

Didn't see the earlier post about the running on.
You need to feed the distributor + side directly from the ignition switch and lose the ballast resistor.
Should take care of both your problems.

[REGISTERED USER]

ive run hei's on several boats. both on chevy's and olds 455's. i ran my olds for over 350 hrs, with the same hei only changed the cap. the olds ran more than 120 hrs in one season. the chevy ran more than 100 hrs before i sold it, and never changed any thing. never had any problems w/ an hei. ive always wired them the same. only two wires to the hei, keyed power straieght from the ign., and tach. i have never used a ballast resister on an hei, and have never run a relay. ive never even heard of anyone doing it any other way, and have never heard anyone have troubles w/ the hei. thats one of the reasons they are popular. i would look closely at the ign. switch. if it stays runing some times after you shut it off, it may be causing a problem. but then again ive left my ign. on for long periods with no concerns or problems. i would guess there is a short problem somewhere, maybe inside the dist. most likely not grounding all of the time. good luck
Problem is that with the ballast resistor still in the circuit, the alternator recieves enough excitation power from itself, even with the ignition switch off, to keep generating power and feeding power to the ignition circuit thru the ballast. Search for other threads about "diode" to find more info on this phenomenon.

[REGISTERED USER]

Check out this thread:
My boat wont turn off (http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17237&highlight=diode)

[Duane HTP]

Run full 12 Volts to an HEI, NO resistor!
Check the continuity of the two wires in the dist. as stated above.
Run On is more than likely a separate issue. Next time it does that, pull the exciter wire on the alternator and see if that kills it. Most likely an alternator issue.

[jstwkd]

there ya go....I knew there was a reason for it in the car...but couldnt friggin remember...lol
had it back words...

[Jet Hydro]

you need to install a "diode" on the exciter wire for the alternator.
Diodes are semiconductor devices which might be described as passing current in one direction only.

[Tahiti350]

One other thought, You are applying the di-electric goop that comes with the new module, right? This is a heat transfer compound that helps get the heat out of the module so it doesn't cook. Ran into this on a junkyard HEI back in the day. Hope this helps.

[Jet Boat John]

HEI's are known for eating modules if the plug wires are aged and/or the plugs are gapped too large. .042" is about the max I would run with a GM HEI, if you want low maintance gap the plugs .035" so you get more life out of the plugs.
Electricity takes the path of least resistance. If the plugs are gapped too large or the wires faulty, it will take out the poorly placed module located inside the cap. Remember the module is a little delicate solid-state device for adding dwell time to the signal from the pickup "switch" to saturate the coil. It does not like being hit with 50,000v from the rotor right above it!
Check the plugs and wires, my guess is your problem lies there.
My 02c
JBJ
*FOLLOW UP*
I know people are going to say, they had some factory GM car from the 70's and the OEM gap was .055" or larger and that is true. But that was a low compression 7.9:1 SMOG engine with a cranking compression of 140psi. Most of us building performance pump gas engines try to have between 180psi-195psi cranking compression, more if it runs racing fuel. As pressures increase the gap must be shrunk to provide a fatter spark to ignite the mixture. Talk to a NO2 guy and ask him what he runs for a plug gap. I bet you will find he runs in the 8's with a plug gap in the 20's!

[Squirtin Thunder]

ill look at that in the morning thanx
Well if you rtemember we saw alot of bad wires in your boat on the 4th. My recomondation is get an engine harness. I also bet it has the resistor wire still in it. Do you remember that I had to put abou 80* of timing in it ??? If you can change the timing chain and advance the Cam about 4*. I really think it will help in its performance. Have you made a new ride plate yet ??? Did it have a back cut shoe or a flat shoe on it ???
Nice to here from you again
Jim

[V1800J]

A HEI needs the full 12V of power. Remove the ballast resisiter and make sure the wire going to the HEI unit is 10ga. Any resisitance will cause the HEI to overheat. It is basically the opposite of points which only need about 9V.

[JET-O-VATOR]

Well if you rtemember we saw alot of bad wires in your boat on the 4th. My recomondation is get an engine harness. I also bet it has the resistor wire still in it. Do you remember that I had to put abou 80* of timing in it ??? If you can change the timing chain and advance the Cam about 4*. I really think it will help in its performance. Have you made a new ride plate yet ??? Did it have a back cut shoe or a flat shoe on it ???
Nice to here from you again
Jim
Whats going on jim i replaced all of the wires that looked bad that we saw on the 4th and i just picked up the ride plate today i had a buddy build me one identical to the one i had minus the cut out for the rudder and i shaped my rudder this morning so it is not so flat i quess....
and for everyone else i replaced my ignition already and still the same run on issue what does this diode look like and were does it go and can i get one from kragen??

[JET-O-VATOR]

HEI's are known for eating modules if the plug wires are aged and/or the plugs are gapped too large. .042" is about the max I would run with a GM HEI, if you want low maintance gap the plugs .035" so you get more life out of the plugs.
Electricity takes the path of least resistance. If the plugs are gapped too large or the wires faulty, it will take out the poorly placed module located inside the cap. Remember the module is a little delicate solid-state device for adding dwell time to the signal from the pickup "switch" to saturate the coil. It does not like being hit with 50,000v from the rotor right above it!
Check the plugs and wires, my guess is your problem lies there.
My 02c
JBJ
*FOLLOW UP*
I know people are going to say, they had some factory GM car from the 70's and the OEM gap was .055" or larger and that is true. But that was a low compression 7.9:1 SMOG engine with a cranking compression of 140psi. Most of us building performance pump gas engines try to have between 180psi-195psi cranking compression, more if it runs racing fuel. As pressures increase the gap must be shrunk to provide a fatter spark to ignite the mixture. Talk to a NO2 guy and ask him what he runs for a plug gap. I bet you will find he runs in the 8's with a plug gap in the 20's!
i will replace the plugs and wires today i havent done that since ive had the boat i didnt even think about that

[THE BOSTON SIDEWINDER]

hei is pisser, problem-free for 5 yrs so-far. my purple wire (ignition feed of switched 12v on a 10 amp fuse.) is 8 AWG, i'm running msd superconductor wires/bosch 2 platinum plugs, and it works great! i think i'm running the lightest mr. gasket distributor springs and stock weights.
remember i may be wrong but has anyone ever heard of a real beagle marine HEI?, there not certified.I see the coast guard about everytime i'm out on Boston Harbor, oh well. the engine has a cleaner look without that damn coil/wire showing!...bill.

[Squirtin Thunder]

i will replace the plugs and wires today i havent done that since ive had the boat i didnt even think about that
Didn't I hand you a set of wires for your boat on the 4th ???
Have you checked the ignition timing on it. I really feel that 4* advanced on your cam will help. What is the deal on the shoe ??? I can't remember what it had on it.
Jim
BTW - If you have any questions you can call me 1-928-704-1158

[JET-O-VATOR]

yea jim you did but they didnt fit my distributer cap and one of the wires had a huge a** burn hole in it i still have them if you want them back

[REGISTERED USER]

one of the wires had a huge a** burn hole in it
LOL! Tanks fer nuttin' :hammerhea
Back on subject, isn't there anyone out there who can help the man out on the diode deal? :idea:
It's been discussed, but I can find any info in search that doesn't have to do with MSD.

[JET-O-VATOR]

i just remembered something, last 4th of july when i met up with jim i fried an alternator.. the next weekend i went back up to the river and put a new alternator in her saturday morning. put her in the water and bonsied up to avi bridge went to shut her down to float for a while and check everything out. and she didnt shut down. so i pulled the purple hot off of the hei.. then fired her up and played. went back to the marina put her on the trailer and replaced the ignition switch. fired her up in the driveway and she shut down no problem. ok. i went to the marina launched her and turned the key and she just kept turning and turning with no fire. so i pulled a plug and sure enough no spark. so i bought the first of many ignition modules...
do you think its possible that the old alternator had a diode built in and the new one does not??

[THE BOSTON SIDEWINDER]

diodes are a 1 way check valve for electricity. i don't know of diodes in oem ignition systems, generally resistors are involved with older points style ign. system to limit input volts to not burn up points as fast. i re-built my old style(2-pin) hei with all new oem parts and is holding up. i had a problem on my old 89 caddy with the little newer style(4 pin spark module) where a new module took out the trigger, than replaced one and it burnt out the other, it sucked! if you keep burning up modules check what someone else mentioned: lots of heat sink grease under the spark module($3. at radio shack), and very clean connections where the coil wires meet the holder/ground bolts. another way to get poor spark module life is if the distributor bearings are bad enough so there is enough slop that internal parts start touching and grounding causing problems.

[Floored]

use the single wire alt like I have on my boat, problem solved or buy the kit and we'll install it when you come out next time. Come by and I'll check the dist also.