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spectratoad
03-16-2005, 01:36 PM
has been approved. Wonder how long until we see a relief in gas prices? :eek: Maybe the middle east will lower theirs a litlle??? Yeah right.
Or will the environmentalist lawsuits hack the approval apart??? :mad:

Advantage Adam
03-16-2005, 01:51 PM
The reason for oil prices increasing is do to China. Their demand for oil has doubled in the last 5 years which has caused more of a limited supply.

spectratoad
03-16-2005, 01:57 PM
I am sure China adds to the problem but there is always a line of tankers off of our coast waiting to be unloaded. We just can't refine it quick enough.
That is another part of our problem. We need to build a couple more refineries but guess who always blocks it..........our favorite environmentalists. :messedup:

Advantage Adam
03-16-2005, 02:02 PM
I am sure China adds to the problem but there is always a line of tankers off of our coast waiting to be unloaded. We just can't refine it quick enough.
That is another part of our problem. We need to build a couple more refineries but guess who always blocks it..........our favorite environmentalists. :messedup:
I agree

roostwear
03-16-2005, 02:14 PM
I am sure China adds to the problem but there is always a line of tankers off of our coast waiting to be unloaded. We just can't refine it quick enough.
That is another part of our problem. We need to build a couple more refineries but guess who always blocks it..........our favorite environmentalists. :messedup:
And the oil companies found they can elevate prices by shutting down refineries. Time to nationalize the petroleum industry.

spectratoad
03-16-2005, 02:21 PM
And the oil companies found they can elevate prices by shutting down refineries. Time to nationalize the petroleum industry.
That could be a good idea. I think that since it is a commodity that regulation would help. I just hate having the government get involved. Things always get F'ed up when that happens.

Freak
03-16-2005, 03:21 PM
Oil is now becoming the most valuable commodity. We will see more of this.
A GANG of 35 pirates armed with machine guns and rocket launchers seized a fully-laden gas tanker in the Malacca Strait at the weekend, a piracy watchdog reported today, rekindling fears of a terrorist attack in the vital waterway...
..The narrow 960km waterway bordered by Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia is used by about 50,000 ships a year carrying a third of world trade and half its oil supplies.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,12540445%255E1702,00.html

Propster
03-16-2005, 03:43 PM
The funny thing is that most of the people in Alaska are all for drilling up there, the citizens, eskimos, most everyone.
The people stopping it are the greenies down here that don't want any drilling anywhere, then complain that we are dependant on foreign oil and that the price is too high.

GLDI8HR
03-16-2005, 03:56 PM
How bout everybody on this board put a little money in and we build are own refinerie? Then we can sell the left over!

hoolign
03-16-2005, 04:03 PM
It's not very hard to buy a well, a refiinery on the other hand...good luck!

mirvin
03-16-2005, 04:20 PM
It's about friggin time. And with the momentum that the Bush Whitehouse has right now I doubt the greenies are gonna be able to didly squat about it.
mirvin :clover:

WaterBox
03-17-2005, 07:56 AM
On new's 10 the other night they was talking about it, And one of the study groups said that it would take 10 years before we would realize any relief from the Alaska drilling, and at the present rate of oil usage there is only enough oil there to last 6 months.

Freak
03-17-2005, 08:04 AM
On new's 10 the other night they was talking about it, And one of the study groups said that it would take 10 years before we would realize any relief from the Alaska drilling, and at the present rate of oil usage there is only enough oil there to last 6 months.
Yep. On average it talkes 5-7 years to get a will online and it would only last 6mths if we ran off it alone at the present rate of consumption. Now if it was added to the rest of the oil imports it would lower the price of oil by 50 cents a barrel. :frown:

rrrr
03-17-2005, 08:13 AM
Yep. On average it talkes 5-7 years to get a will online and it would only last 6mths if we ran off it alone at the present rate of consumption. Now if it was added to the rest of the oil imports it would lower the price of oil by 50 cents a barrel. :frown:
US consumption = 20 million BPD
ANWR reserves = 10.4 billion barrels
My math sez that's a 520 day supply if used exclusively. Projections are that the ANWR fields will produce 1 million BPD when in full operation. That's 5% of US daily consumption and it will last over 28 years at that rate of withdrawal.

WaterBox
03-17-2005, 08:18 AM
Yep. On average it talkes 5-7 years to get a will online and it would only last 6mths if we ran off it alone at the present rate of consumption. Now if it was added to the rest of the oil imports it would lower the price of oil by 50 cents a barrel. :frown:
And 50 cents isn't going to do anyone any good. :frown:

Freak
03-17-2005, 08:29 AM
US consumption = 20 million BPD
ANWR reserves = 10.4 billion barrels
My math sez that's a 520 day supply if used exclusively. Projections are that the ANWR fields will produce 1 million BPD when in full operation. That's 5% of US daily consumption and it will last over 28 years at that rate of withdrawal.
Soooo our #'s are fairly close. I'm factoring in growth so consumption would increase or everyone would go on ration. (Oh Boy) Also remember it will not be 1mil bpd for the entire lifespan of well. As it depletes (midpoint) production will lower. The same goes for the wells currently online if it is added to BPD.

hoolign
03-17-2005, 08:32 AM
Yep. On average it talkes 5-7 years to get a will online and it would only last 6mths if we ran off it alone at the present rate of consumption. Now if it was added to the rest of the oil imports it would lower the price of oil by 50 cents a barrel. :frown:
Why does it take 5-7 years to get online?

Freak
03-17-2005, 08:35 AM
You tell me. Your there. From what I have read and people in the industry have said when I asked is on "average" 5-7 years. That is from field find to online.

Dr. Eagle
03-17-2005, 08:40 AM
You tell me. Your there. From what I have read and people in the industry have said when I asked is on "average" 5-7 years. That is from field find to online.
That means from the time the geologists determine that there is oil there. My understanding is that's already taken place. right now it seems the long pole in the tent would be leasing the tracts, and of course the inevitable court challenges that will be coming...

hoolign
03-17-2005, 08:41 AM
You tell me. Your there. From what I have read and people in the industry have said when I asked is on "average" 5-7 years. That is from field find to online.
Well , I'm not to familiar with the US oil patch, but up here from the time siesmic locates , drilling rig finishes, and completions finishes those can be accomplished with in a year or two. depending on the area, pipe line is usually being laid as completeions are under way. In very remote areas I can see it taking longer but 5-7 years seem awful long time frame to get on production.

Freak
03-17-2005, 08:46 AM
Dont get me wrong. I WANT you to be correct. The shorter time span the better. Anyway do you work in the oil sands?

Freak
03-17-2005, 08:49 AM
That means from the time the geologists determine that there is oil there. My understanding is that's already taken place. right now it seems the long pole in the tent would be leasing the tracts, and of course the inevitable court challenges that will be coming...
yeah that is what my friend is saying. Permits, court challenges, who gets to do it. It could take a long time.

Dr. Eagle
03-17-2005, 08:50 AM
My dad was a Superintendent and Petroleum Engineer for Mobil oil and later a company bought by Anadarko. It was less than a year from seismic locate to production.
However, since the lease tracts haven't been auctioned off, that process takes quite a bit of time... I wonder if that reference was to a patch of ground (or ocean) starting from square one. Having to go through all of the mineral tract leasing and environmental mumbo jumbo... that could easily account for 6 of the 7 years...
You know, government in action... :hammer2: :hammer2:

Havasu_Dreamin
03-17-2005, 08:52 AM
I heard on the radio this morning that permits to drill in Alaska would not be sold for two years. After that it would take 5-7 years to actually pump oil. After all of that, the news said, they only expect to pump out 7 billion gallons, which is not even a one year supply for the US.

Dr. Eagle
03-17-2005, 08:54 AM
I heard on the radio this morning that permits to drill in Alaska would not be sold for two years. After that it would take 5-7 years to actually pump oil. After all of that, the news said, they only expect to pump out 7 billion gallons, which is not even a one year supply for the US.
Well it is one drop in the bucket... not the panacea some would like. But it is far better than nothing.

Brian Ray
03-17-2005, 08:56 AM
US consumption = 20 million BPD
ANWR reserves = 10.4 billion barrels
My math sez that's a 520 day supply if used exclusively. Projections are that the ANWR fields will produce 1 million BPD when in full operation. That's 5% of US daily consumption and it will last over 28 years at that rate of withdrawal.
Sounds about right....I highly doubt 5% is going to lower our cost at the pump. If anything the oil companies will just make more money...Do people think that if we being the U.S. produce 5% of our daily consumption it's going to lower our cost at the pump. No way in h*ll is that going to happen....
Why is it that these oil companies are seeing record profits in a time when oil is at record highs. In what industry does a company's net profit increase while the cost for their raw materials increase?? It's not like the companies are putting in refineries on line or doing additional exploration.....Seems to me the consumer is taking it in the a$$!!

hoolign
03-17-2005, 09:00 AM
Like I said depending on the area, in fiellds that are close to population, certain types of geographical hinderences, and if courts are involved it could definitley take a long time. But the majority of well dont go through this process. I f they did it would not be feasable to continue in these places. I'm not doubting there are wells that conjour up these dilemas. But most don't. its more productive to drill 2 wells in an area that doesnt propose problems than to fight over 1 well that does. But this is the oil patch .. and it ever makes sence to me ...I'll have to re examine it ..and find out where i went wrong to get to the conclusion that it made sence :D

Dr. Eagle
03-17-2005, 09:01 AM
It's not like the companies are putting in refineries on line or doing additional exploration.....Seems to me the consumer is taking it in the a$$!!
Would you seek to build a refinery in today's envio-nazi climate in this country? We have gone from over 30 to 11 in California since the 90s because of a combination of the retooling costs for the new "clean" gas and the costs of upgrading older refineries...
Record profits or not, I'd sit in the sweet spot if I were the oil companies myself... :supp:

Havasu_Dreamin
03-17-2005, 09:01 AM
In what industry does a company's net profit increase while the cost for their raw materials increase??
Any industry. The costs are always passed onto the consumers. Iit's the power of econimics and capitalism. The only way for this to not happen is for the demand to decrease and that doesn't appear to be a very viable option, now does it? This is especially true whne your product is a comodity that is basically a necessity. That's not to say that I don't think the oil companies are gouging us by increasing the profit margin on refining though, because I think they are. Can you say collusion?

hoolign
03-17-2005, 09:07 AM
If you want to make money , and contribute to the fossil fuel industry .. research wells that have been abandoned, I'm not sure what the regulatory board for oil and gas is called down there, but you can get wells for free, as long as you can make them productive to set standards..which costs big bucks. I know some guys who put up 300, 000 and had to get credit lines to do it ..but it has payed off for some...and others are modeling for the homeless adds

1978 Rogers
03-17-2005, 09:09 AM
has been approved. Wonder how long until we see a relief in gas prices? :eek: Maybe the middle east will lower theirs a litlle??? Yeah right.
Or will the environmentalist lawsuits hack the approval apart??? :mad:
I heard it last night on the news that it would only be pumping 6 months out of the year. It's won't make a craps difference.

Freak
03-17-2005, 09:11 AM
My dad was a Superintendent and Petroleum Engineer for Mobil oil and later a company bought by Anadarko. It was less than a year from seismic locate to production.
However, since the lease tracts haven't been auctioned off, that process takes quite a bit of time... I wonder if that reference was to a patch of ground (or ocean) starting from square one. Having to go through all of the mineral tract leasing and environmental mumbo jumbo... that could easily account for 6 of the 7 years...
You know, government in action... :hammer2: :hammer2:
Your correct. Also those short to online fields were the easy ones. The easy ones are gone. Were talking mega fields the ones that make a difference. I have 2 friends in the bus. One a Chemical engineer for BP and another that is a geologist. It's interesting to drink some beers with them. Offshore rigs take longer time periods especially deep water ones. They say the price is going to bounce around (while creeping up)till 08. 08 is the big deal cause no mega fields have been found and slated to come online after 08.
It's interesting to read in the news about what is going on. Example: Russia said recently there might be problems is the future with them exporting oil. To me that is they are getting ready to keep their oil for themselves.
We'll be kicking Iran and Venezuela’s ass soon for their oil. We really have no choice.

Dr. Eagle
03-17-2005, 09:13 AM
I heard it last night on the news that it would only be pumping 6 months out of the year. It's won't make a craps difference.
Even if that is true, when does the highest demand for gasoline occur????
IN the summer, when they would be pumping.
Be careful of listening to the hyperbole from either side in this argument.
1. It will make a difference.
2. It won't fix everything.
Bottom line, we are better off developing it than not.

Freak
03-17-2005, 09:16 AM
.
Bottom line, we are better off developing it than not.
Can we get a hell yeah. Without oil we are all ****ed.

oldbuck40
03-17-2005, 09:26 AM
i guess no one saw on the news where the good ole government is fixing to raise the tax on fuel!!! they said the current tax was way behind the times! and why is it that almost everywhere you go someone knows of several even hundreds of wells just sitting idle! here in texas there are thousands of wells doing nothing,,oklahoma and louisiana also! i even saw a thread on biofuel where its suppossed to be cheaper than diesel,well in the paper lastnight the good ole us government has dug their claws in and they will regulate the price of biofuel which stated that it will not be any cheaper than diesel!!! dont get me wrong i love the USA but watch and see if one day we out price ourselves on just about everything and the country goes bust!

1978 Rogers
03-17-2005, 09:30 AM
Even if that is true, when does the highest demand for gasoline occur????
IN the summer, when they would be pumping.
Be careful of listening to the hyperbole from either side in this argument.
1. It will make a difference.
2. It won't fix everything.
Bottom line, we are better off developing it than not.
How about we start drilling off the California Coast. That's right we can't ruin Cali's expensive beach front property.

Dr. Eagle
03-17-2005, 09:32 AM
How about we start drilling off the California Coast. That's right we can't ruin Cali's expensive beach front property.
Cool, works for me... :hammer2:

1978 Rogers
03-17-2005, 09:33 AM
i guess no one saw on the news where the good ole government is fixing to raise the tax on fuel!!! they said the current tax was way behind the times! and why is it that almost everywhere you go someone knows of several even hundreds of wells just sitting idle! here in texas there are thousands of wells doing nothing,,oklahoma and louisiana also! i even saw a thread on biofuel where its suppossed to be cheaper than diesel,well in the paper lastnight the good ole us government has dug their claws in and they will regulate the price of biofuel which stated that it will not be any cheaper than diesel!!! dont get me wrong i love the USA but watch and see if one day we out price ourselves on just about everything and the country goes bust!
My father holds the mineral rights to some farmland in NE Montana that he sold when my grandmother passed away. None of those are pumping either. They were pumping oil in Montana in the 80's.

oldbuck40
03-17-2005, 09:42 AM
My father holds the mineral rights to some farmland in NE Montana that he sold when my grandmother passed away. None of those are pumping either. They were pumping oil in Montana in the 80's.
kinda makes you wonder about all the wells huh? makes me wonder about who is running the show! remember the gas shortage's? i think when all that was going on the us couldnt buy oil so they drilled all these wells,hum all the sudden there is no shortage! we have oil!!! but wont use it to drive the price down,screw the other countrys and lets use our oil!!! we drilled the hole lets use it too

Dr. Eagle
03-17-2005, 09:46 AM
kinda makes you wonder about all the wells huh? makes me wonder about who is running the show! remember the gas shortage's? i think when all that was going on the us couldnt buy oil so they drilled all these wells,hum all the sudden there is no shortage! we have oil!!! but wont use it to drive the price down,screw the other countrys and lets use our oil!!! we drilled the hole lets use it too
When the fields have played themselves out, there is often still recoverable oil there, but the extraction methods require lots of $$$$
If the price of oil were to stay above say fifty bucks for a while, you might just see a lot of these older fields back in production using those special extration methods.

Havasu_Dreamin
03-17-2005, 09:46 AM
i guess no one saw on the news where the good ole government is fixing to raise the tax on fuel!!!
While ggetting gas yesterday at costco, $2.249 per gallon and $81.75 to fill up, I re-read the taxes on gas, something like $.18 Federal tax, $.14 cents State, and then whatever the local tax is given the county the pump is in. With all the eff'n cars in CA and all those damn taxes, WhyTF is the budget a problem?

Dr. Eagle
03-17-2005, 09:48 AM
With all the eff'n cars in CA and all those damn taxes, WhyTF is the budget a problem?
One word...
Spending...

oldbuck40
03-17-2005, 10:01 AM
One word...
Spending...yea into their fat pockets!!!!!!

mach1alaska
03-17-2005, 10:43 AM
Even if that is true, when does the highest demand for gasoline occur????
IN the summer, when they would be pumping.
Be careful of listening to the hyperbole from either side in this argument.
1. It will make a difference.
2. It won't fix everything.
Bottom line, we are better off developing it than not.
As a matter of fact peak production is in the winter not the summer
the reason for suggesting 6 month operation is because they can build ice roads over the tundra in the winter and not leave tracks.
Once in operation I believe they would pump year round and access it with helo's but the construction would be in the winter. actually it would be built off site in modules and transported in the winter.
I am a bit familiar with the area and operation of it as I work in Prudhoe bay (right next door) and am up here right now.
Kevin N

Dr. Eagle
03-17-2005, 10:48 AM
As a matter of fact peak production is in the winter not the summer
the reason for suggesting 6 month operation is because they can build ice roads over the tundra in the winter and not leave tracks.
Once in operation I believe they would pump year round and access it with helo's but the construction would be in the winter. actually it would be built off site in modules and transported in the winter.
I am a bit familiar with the area and operation of it as I work in Prudhoe bay (right next door) and am up here right now.
Kevin N
Cool, interesting factoid Mach 1! So we can build stockpiles for the early summer months!!!!!! :cool:

Essex502
03-17-2005, 01:24 PM
Let's not forget the shortage of refining capacity. The additional oil that MAY be pumped from the ANWR can't be refined if we don't increase capacity. Hell, some of our oil that we pump in Alaska RIGHT NOW is being sold in Asia. That makes a lot of sense.
A consolidation of the oil refining to a handful of companies has allowed the market to be played in the same way the California energy market was played in 2000-2001. Different companies and a whole lot smarter. Look at Shell Oil...planned on closing the Bakersfield, CA refinery with the excuse of long term prospects for supply in doubt. Flying J comes in and after much protest by citizens and the CA Attorney General, Shell decides to sell it and Flying J will be profitable. The closure was merely a ploy to consolidate the marketplace further. Bakersfield was Shell's most profitable refinery in the U.S. as measured by margin. Why close it? Anybody care to guess?
Folks thought that the electrical market deregulation was good until the saw what a handful of illegal acts could acheive. It doesn't take much to tip the balance of the oil market - just a couple of percentage points.
Saudi and other OPEC focking MONOPOLY countries boosting their output a measly 500,000 bbls a day? Can't be refined here so what is our benefit? More to China.
Get used to the high prices. They are here to stay. The oil companies are enjoying MASSIVE profits and won't be happy until the price of fuel in the U.S. is what it is in Europe.