Impeller ?

[Taylorman]

Ok guys, im soon going to step up the power to a BBC. What impeller should i use with around 600-650hp? Im thinking thats a little much for aluminum. Would bronze be the way to go?

[MudPumper]

Bronze is nice and cheaper than stainless but the drawback is that bronze is difficult to weld so repairing any dings or what not may not work. If you primarily boat in shallow rivers where you run a chance of sucking shit up I would say spend the extra cash and get stainless because it can be repaired easily. Others have said that you can get away with aluminum with around 600 HP. Might be ok as long as you don't unload the pump. ??????

[wideopen545]

i've got a very nice american turbine A-2 hard anadized aluminum alloy standard/standard on the ring side was installed and removed went with a different setup
215.00 plus shipping
tim 540.871.4833

[SB]

Aggressor's alloy would also be suitable.

[TIMINATOR]

I've run 950 HP at over 100 mph with an aluminum American Turbine for about 2 years with no problems...... BUT, the pump is allways loaded, well... TIMINATOR

[Huffer]

Been Running Bc, Past Five Years, Just Changed To A2 Bronze,no Problems Yet!

[LVjetboy]

"I've run 950 HP at over 100 mph with an aluminum American Turbine for about 2 years with no problems...... BUT, the pump is allways loaded, well... TIMINATOR"
2 years are you sure? Don't forget I kept track. :D And I say BS on the 100 mph!
Wondering, why build big hp then cut corners and go for bronze instead of stainless? Just wondering. Maybe a bit cheaper, oh wait. Are you sure you'll be loaded every time? Or that you won't need ss instead of bronze for you lake boat application? Just a question.
jer

[ChetCapoli]

[i]
2 years are you sure? Don't forget I kept track. :D And I say BS on the 100 mph!
Wondering, why build big hp then cut corners and go for bronze instead of stainless? Just wondering. Maybe a bit cheaper, oh wait. Are you sure you'll be loaded every time? Or that you won't need ss instead of bronze for you lake boat application? Just a question.
jer
This is something similiar to what that chit would say jer...give it a rest will ya? geesh! :D Besides "the jet boat industry is reluctant to accept a "new" concept like bronze....but they ARE GAINING NUMBERS FAST!"
Maybe i'll get an A+ on this post eh?
CHET

[Duane HTP]

A+, they are gaining numbers fast! You're starting to see the light. Yeah!
It's Mag/Bronze, Chet. The older impellers were Bronze. Get it right.
Good Post Chet!!!

[steelcomp]

A+, they are gaining numbers fast! You're starting to see the light. Yeah!
It's Mag/Bronze, Chet. The older impellers were Bronze. Get it right.
Good Post Chet!!!
Duane...pleeeeeze...don't encourage him!!! :D

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I thought that bronze would take more hp to spin them. THey are way heavier than aluminum.
396

[Cs19]

The mag/bronze are actually even heavier than stainless 396.
My personal thought is youll be ok with aluminum, just dont unload it real hard like mentioned earlier. I would also think if its a super old impeller thats been repaired and welded up over and over it might not be as tough as a new one.
CS

[steelcomp]

I ran my alum B for 3 seasons with 670 hp and about 6100 loadad. It saw a few 7500+ rpm blasts, but never came apart. Not saying it's a good thing, but it lived through it.

[LVjetboy]

"ok with aluminum, just dont unload it real hard like mentioned earlier."
So Bp, how does Taylorman make sure he'll never unload it "real hard" with 650 hp? Side-by-side or out of the hole? Define "hard" so he'll know. Is the $ savings between al, bz or ss worth the risk or worry? After building a big hp engine and running at speed? I thought Taylorman was asking for good advice.
"Not saying it's a good thing, but it lived through it."
So ok fine, go aluminum cause it's cheap and maybe it'll work or maybe you'll trash your pump and jet at full throttle? Then well, maybe go ss. Or not...if you're still alive. How fast will Taylorman go with 650 hp? No wakes or chop with a lake jet boat right?
jer

[steelcomp]

"ok with aluminum, just dont unload it real hard like mentioned earlier."
So Bp, how does Taylorman make sure he'll never unload it "real hard" with 650 hp? Side-by-side or out of the hole? Define "hard" so he'll know. Is the $ savings between al, bz or ss worth the risk or worry? After building a big hp engine and running at speed? I thought Taylorman was asking for good advice.
"Not saying it's a good thing, but it lived through it."
So ok fine, go aluminum cause it's cheap and maybe it'll work or maybe you'll trash your pump and jet at full throttle? Then well, maybe go ss. Or not...if you're still alive. How fast will Taylorman go with 650 hp? No wakes or chop with a lake jet boat right?
jer
If you're still alive...you crack me up Jer. Why all the drama??
It was CS19, not bp. You can reduce your chances of unloading by doing the things that you have done to your boat to make sure YOU don't unload, in that perfectly balanced, ultimate example of idealistic perfection you call a boat. Same ideas, same hardware...or does that only work for you?? Say something worth while, Jer, instead of just being sarcastic and insulting your way into everyone's hearts. Taylor man is asking for good advice, and getting it from everyone but you. Are you off your meds again?? :notam:

[LVjetboy]

"Taylor man is asking for good advice, and getting it from everyone but you."
Are you sure about that? I certainly do unload and so do most lake runners.
"You can reduce your chances of unloading by doing the things that you have done to your boat to make sure YOU don't unload, in that perfectly balanced, ultimate example of idealistic perfection you call a boat. Same ideas, same hardware...or does that only work for you?"
Perfectly balanced? Whatever. Since when does a "perfect setup" or balance apply to a lake boat on a typical weekend? No matter. I don't run an aluminum impeller. I run ss. Nothing is perfect so at that power level, maybe Taylorman should consider ss. But then, according to your post, he gets good advice from everyone but me. I care less...maybe Taylorman should stick with a freakin' aluminum impeller. See how long it lasts and what happens when it goes. I could give a sh*t.
jer

[Heatseeker]

I've ran an aluminum Berk A2 for two seasons behind the blower motor without a problem (so far). I've had it spinning 5800 rpm to date(on the limiter).
Being cautious with the water I'll hammer it in has paid off so far for me.

[LVjetboy]

"Being cautious with the water..."
Why? How do you know that? What does cautious mean and can you judge cautious by throttle pedal or wave height? Just curious.
jer

[Jeanyus]

I ran my alum B for 3 seasons with 670 hp and about 6100 loadad. It saw a few 7500+ rpm blasts, but never came apart. Not saying it's a good thing, but it lived through it.
I bought the Impeller from Steel, and there is not a scratch on it. And will run it this summer, not worried 1 bit. As far as not unloading your pump. it's real simple, when the water looks bad, you see a big roller, or get air borne, just let off the gas. Not real hard to figure out, doesn't take a jeanyus.

[steelcomp]

"Being cautious with the water..."
Why? How do you know that? What does cautious mean and can you judge cautious by throttle pedal or wave height? Just curious.
jer
He's on a roll! :D
It's pretty easy to see conditions on the lake or river. Nice flat spot, you open it up. If it's rough, you don't. If it's questionable, you decide yes or no, and are ready to shut down if necessary. See a roller coming, you either back off a little, or nail it and get some killer air!! I don't know what your boating habits are, but I think I've heard comments about a blender on board?? That leads me to think you're drinkin and driving. Maybe you're not a cautious boater and choose to be reckless...I don't know. I can drive as the conditions warrant, along with most of us here, I'd assume. It only takes a little foot action to back off the throttle enough to settle the boat and keep from unloading. It's really very simple to master, and if you'd like, I can give you some driving lessons next time I'm at the river.
You know, you've made your point, and offered your advice, now why don't you offer something constructive, or shut your pie hole. Everything in this thing called jet boating is a compromise...for most of us, it's in the wallet. When we can't afford, or can't justify the extra cost of things like a stainless impeller, we learn to be careful, just like most anything else in life.

[Heatseeker]

As blind as my narrow ass is, I can see water conditions quite clearly http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/1/confused01.gif !

[bp]

"ok with aluminum, just dont unload it real hard like mentioned earlier."
So Bp, how does Taylorman make sure he'll never unload it "real hard" with 650 hp? Side-by-side or out of the hole? Define "hard" so he'll know. Is the $ savings between al, bz or ss worth the risk or worry? After building a big hp engine and running at speed? I thought Taylorman was asking for good advice.
jer
huh? whatd i do now?
personally, i would only run ss, or in certain instances, a heritage mag/bronze. but, some people can run aluminum w/o problems for some time. i think the key is taking it apart and checking everything out once in awhile, and not just running the dogcrap out of it until it looks like the junk on some of the other threads around here.
and i'll tell ya, i've also seen relatively new mag from IMO an inferior company blow completely apart destroying a perfectly good blueprinted bowl. i've also seen a relatively brand new ss impeller crack apart with not all that much hp applied, so when you get some of these things, aluminum or otherwise, hopefully you're getting a good part that was cast properly. but either way, take 'em apart once in awhile to check for cracks or distortion. if aluminum is starting to distort, it's time to get another one or something else. or.....

[canuck1]

He's on a roll! :D
It's pretty easy to see conditions on the lake or river. Nice flat spot, you open it up. If it's rough, you don't. If it's questionable, you decide yes or no, and are ready to shut down if necessary. See a roller coming, you either back off a little, or nail it and get some killer air!! I don't know what your boating habits are, but I think I've heard comments about a blender on board?? That leads me to think you're drinkin and driving. Maybe you're not a cautious boater and choose to be reckless...I don't know. I can drive as the conditions warrant, along with most of us here, I'd assume. It only takes a little foot action to back off the throttle enough to settle the boat and keep from unloading. It's really very simple to master, and if you'd like, I can give you some driving lessons next time I'm at the river.
You know, you've made your point, and offered your advice, now why don't you offer something constructive, or shut your pie hole. Everything in this thing called jet boating is a compromise...for most of us, it's in the wallet. When we can't afford, or can't justify the extra cost of things like a stainless impeller, we learn to be careful, just like most anything else in life.
Can I get some of those lessons too? Aluminum impellers just don't seem to last more than an hour for me...Maybe it is what I have been missing all these years

[Taylorman]

So is there any advantage to running an aluminum impeller instead of bronze or ss. If you take cost out of the picture, why would one choose to use an aluminum impeller over a bronze or ss.

[steelcomp]

Can I get some of those lessons too? Aluminum impellers just don't seem to last more than an hour for me...Maybe it is what I have been missing all these years
Naw...you guys are beyond help! :cool:

[Heatseeker]

So is there any advantage to running an aluminum impeller instead of bronze or ss. If you take cost out of the picture, why would one choose to use an aluminum impeller over a bronze or ss.
$$$
In my case it was pure economics. I wasn't sure what cut I was going to settle with, so why pop $1200-$1400 for a SS and then have to have it cut down. Kind of like a less expensive test. Someday, when my budget isn't so strained(yea, right!!!), I'll pop fo SS.

[steelcomp]

So is there any advantage to running an aluminum impeller instead of bronze or ss. If you take cost out of the picture, why would one choose to use an aluminum impeller over a bronze or ss.
Other than cost, I don't think so. I think there's two requirements to consider..one is HP, and the other is cost. If you're pushing the power limits of an alum...then consider the other. If you can't afford, then just keep on top of what you've got, as bp said, but I don't think there's any benefit of alum over the others AFA performance. Lighter weight might be easier to spin, but also flexes more, causing distortion and possibly losing efficiency. Extra weight of sst or mag bronze doubtfully noticable, and may be offset by better performance. Others may say different, just my .02 :coffeycup

[pops1]

I've run 950 HP at over 100 mph with an aluminum American Turbine for about 2 years with no problems...... BUT, the pump is allways loaded, well... TIMINATORTim, This post looks silly. For what reason would you take the chance of distroying a pump and maybe a motor unless you motor sucked on torque and could not pull a Mag. or S/S.
5 -7 pounds will not kill you on hole and may help you on the tall Yet @ 25,000 PSI tinsile with the strell load @ 950 HP should and will explode, unless your running a little tiny Impeller. You are just asking for trouble. Remember all alloys have a memory and yield rate, each stress subtracts from that number, so each time it is getting stressed it returns to form in a minus state or weaker. Cast 356 Alum. T6= 25,000 to 35,000 PSI tensile- Mag Bronze 90,000 to 110,000 PSI, S/S 89,000 to 135,000 (17-4 H/T). List -Alum Impeller $320.00
Mag. Bronze $ 715.00 and S/S $1,000.00 to $1,200.
950 HP $20,000 to $30,000. To me something is wrong in this picture.
And Mag. can and is Welded everyday.

[Taylorman]

When i build a 650 hp motor, the last thing im going to skimp on is the extra few hundred $ to upgrade from alum to bronze or stainless impeller. That would be like buying an F-350 dually truck and putting a 4 cylinder in it cause you can't afford a diesel. The 4 will make the truck roll, but.................

[pops1]

I ran my alum B for 3 seasons with 670 hp and about 6100 loadad. It saw a few 7500+ rpm blasts, but never came apart. Not saying it's a good thing, but it lived through it. You got away with it OK because the "B" cut has been shortened on the duration of encapsulated ride and the exit port has been opened up much larger. When you put that combination together in a "AA" or "A" condition the stress load is far greater.

[DeputyDawg]

bp posted--personally, i would only run ss, or in certain instances, a heritage mag/bronze.
I have never heard of Heritage impellers, do they have a website? Where can you get them?

[hack job]

I have never heard of Heritage impellers, do they have a website? Where can you get them?
MPD
in costa mesa
jack is the man :wink:

[bp]

MPD
in costa mesa
jack is the man :wink:
:D :D :D

[steelcomp]

You got away with it OK because the "B" cut has been shortened on the duration of encapsulated ride and the exit port has been opened up much larger. When you put that combination together in a "AA" or "A" condition the stress load is far greater. :sleeping: :sleeping:
Now, I wouldn't be spinning an A or AA 6100, would I. I got away with it because I watch what I'm doing, I don't hammer my parts, and the mfgr's performance limitations are usually about 1/2 the material/design limitations. (Design safety factior) At least, that is, with good design and good manufacturing. Some guys parts don't even get that far!

[Cs19]

And Mag. can and is Welded everyday.
Ok fine, its welded all the time, we already went over this, do a search on the net, its all over the place.Its no secret Dave.
Can you repair a a M/B like you can repair a SS? If your answer is no, wouldnt that be something to keep in mind when your looking into a new impeller?
Ok, so we have made a decision right? Taylorman isnt going to run alum.

[LVjetboy]

On a roll? Not even luke warm Steel.
Posted by steelcomp: "I ran my alum B for 3 seasons with 670 hp and about 6100 loadad. It saw a few 7500+ rpm blasts, but never came apart. Not saying it's a good thing, but it lived through it."
Then posted by Genius: "I bought the Impeller from Steel, and there is not a scratch on it. And will run it this summer, not worried 1 bit."
First Steel. You mentioned 6100 unloaded. Why did you unload your aluminum B if you're an expert at judging water conditions and how much throttle to apply? And 7500 rpm? To me implies big time unloading for your power. Can you explain that other that saying it's not a good thing?
Second Jeanyus. If you bought that aluminum impeller Steel apparantly abused, why are you so sure and not worried 1 bit when you run it this summer? You're not looking for scratches btw.
Steel later posted: "I can drive as the conditions warrant, along with most of us here, I'd assume. It only takes a little foot action to back off the throttle enough to settle the boat and keep from unloading. It's really very simple to master, and if you'd like, I can give you some driving lessons next time I'm at the river."
Save your grade school wisdom for your friends. How long you been driving jet boats? Maybe I'll teach you a few things grasshopper...
jer

[LVjetboy]

Still warming up Steel...
Bp posted: "huh? whatd i do now? Personally, i would only run ss."
So why would you only run ss Bp? And how many lake runners here'd take your advice and check for cracks (not scratches) and clearances regularly? Is a visual check sufficient? Hmmmm...my guess...very few. Be honest.
For that matter, how many lake runners (w/no data acquisition or telltale) truly know what they spun their impeller to on launch or after a surprise roller or chop? Steel claims 7500 rpm on alumimum. That seems a bit high considering recharge shock loading. Especially with an aluminum impeller. But he apparantly sold that impeller. Although I've set my chip limit well below 7500, I also judge water conditions. Maybe Steel's the one who needs practice?
Wax on, wax off.
jer

[LVjetboy]

"As blind as my narrow ass is, I can see water conditions quite clearly"
With age my eyes not as good as when I was flying either. But with glasses still 20/20. How many seconds ahead with 20/20 under ideal contrast can you see a roller at 80 mph? Does smooth water guarantee no rollers? Or for that matter, does your eyesight help you judge throttle application on launch? I'm thinking,, no.
That is, if you're talking about 650 hp and the speed and power that implies...as Taylorman's original post.
jer

[LVjetboy]

Bp posted: "Ok, so we have made a decision right? Taylorman isnt going to run alum."
Isn't he now? I recommended SS for 650 true hp. But Steelcomp countered..."you've made your point, now why don't you offer something constructive, or shut your pie hole."
According to Steelcomp, my posts on this topic are bs and not constructive...so I should "shut my pie hole." What if Taylorman thinks Steel is right about aluminum for 650 hp? If so, why would Taylorman choose SS? After all, SS is more expensive.
Steelcomp later expands..."Everything in this thing called jet boating is a compromise...for most of us, it's in the wallet. When we can't afford, or can't justify the extra cost of things like a stainless impeller, we learn to be careful, just like most anything else in life."
I say if you can afford 650 hp (true hp - to some that means 750 hp corrected) then you'd be an idiot (oh excuse me, a bit short-sighted) to cut corners and spin that pump with alumimum...no matter how careful you are or wise you claim to be in judging water conditions or throttle application, or how often you check your impeller for <uhm> "scratches."
Of course we are still talking lake jets? How often you lake jet guys running big (650) hp check your aluminum impellers with fluorescent dye penetrant during or after the season? Nada. Bp?
What if you don't check that one run before ???
jer

[LVjetboy]

Taylorman later posted, "If you take cost out of the picture, why would one choose to use an aluminum impeller over a bronze or ss."
And Heatseeker posted, "In my case it was pure economics. I wasn't sure what cut I was going to settle with, so why pop $1200-$1400 for a SS and then have to have it cut down. Kind of like a less expensive test. Someday, when my budget isn't so strained(yea, right!!!), I'll pop fo SS."
???
And Steelcomp agreed, "Other than cost, I don't think so. I think there's two requirements to consider..one is HP, and the other is cost. If you're pushing the power limits of an alum...then consider the other. If you can't afford, then just keep on top of what you've got, as bp said...
So Steel, in your sage and wise opinion, what is the power vs. cost trade-off of building a true 650 hp engine then choosing an aluminum impeller over SS for a lake boat application? I'm sure you know how much $$ it takes to build 650 hp. Is that worth the risk of pump damage or worse to save $800 on the impeller?
jer

[LVjetboy]

Pops posted: "Alum. T6= 25,000 to 35,000 PSI tensile, S/S 89,000 to 135,000 PSI"
List -Alum Impeller $320.00 and S/S $1,000.00 to $1,200."
So figuring how much $$ it takes to build a reliable 650 hp, you're gonna save(?) $880 and sacrifice a reliable pump impeller? That 100,000 psi strength difference seems significant no matter how wise a throttle-man like Steel you are. Especially if used (abused?) Also consider the extra cost of damage to both pump and impeller detail if that cheap a** alumimum impeller lets loose. Not to mention your safety. But if you're as careful as Steel, no worry. Just sell it to the next guy when you're ready to upgrade.
jer

[LVjetboy]

Ok Steel...only luke warm. :sleeping: :sleeping:
jer

[LVjetboy]

Oh wait, one more thing...
Steel posted, "I got away with it because I watch what I'm doing, I don't hammer my parts, and the mfgr's performance limitations are usually about 1/2 the material/design limitations. (Design safety factior) At least, that is, with good design and good manufacturing. Some guys parts don't even get that far!"
Ya sure, there's book design safety factor. You gonna bet your life on any impleller manufacturers alleged safety factor or mfg practices? Especially when one impeller material has the potential for 100,000 psi more strength than the other? Sure, just watch what you're doing, be careful not to unload, and teach the rest of us how to drive.
jer

[Taylorman]

I say if you can afford 650 hp then you'd be an idiot to cut corners and spin that pump with alumimum...no matter how careful you are or wise you claim to be in judging water conditions or throttle application, or how often you check your impeller. So figuring how much $$ it takes to build a reliable 650 hp, you're gonna save(?) $880 and sacrifice a reliable pump impeller?
I have to agree with this statement. Thats all im trying to figure out. I just wanted to know if there was any advantage to using an alum. impeller with 650 hp. If there is just cost savings with the potenial of f...ing up my pump by using an alum impeller with this kind of hp, im not going to risk it.

[OkieDave]

some boats are more prone to keep the impellor loaded than others. I have broken SS impellors with lightweight tunnell boats that get airborne real easy and have had aluminum impellors live with 650 hp quite well in a vee-bottom boat that doesn't hop out of the water so easily. I have broken a dozen or so aluminum impellors without ever damaging the rest of the pump or causing a mishap. also can be influenced some by where you are making your 650 hp. do you have to spin lots of rpm to get it or is it a motor that will make power at lower rpm?

[sdpm]

Just buy a new boat!! Sounds easier to me! :argue:

[Taylorman]

Just buy a new boat!! Sounds easier to me! :argue:
Im starting to think that. :220v:

[Jeanyus]

OK LV is right. I just ordered a stainless impeller, and a 12 volt blender for my boat. Then I'll be able to go out and get hammered, With the stainless impeller I will be able to hold the gas pedal to the floor and never have a problem.
Later today I'm going to the Chevy dealer, I', gonna buy a 1 ton duramax diesel truck, with a 16,000 pound towing capacity. Do you think that will be enough to tow my 2,500 pound boat, or should I just buy a semi truck to tow it?

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

Just buy a new boat!! Sounds easier to me! :argue:
maybe alot safer too. that taylor does not have full length stringers right??? with 650hp and a tight pump you might be pushing that hull beyond it's SAFE limits.
why not take the $$$$$ you are planning to spend on a 650hp engine and sell your boat and buy one set up and ready to go....preferably a tunnel of some sort. Maybe try a boat the was designed to go 85+ mph SAFELY . Just my opinion. $15k can buy you ALOT of boat......
Omega

[steelcomp]

Wow!!! Freekin unreal, Jer! How much wine did you drink through all that??
You wrote from 2:12 'till near 5:00 in the morning and said absolutely NOTHING!!!
That's amazing, dude, freekin amazing!
But I'll humor you on a couple of things.
First Steel. You mentioned 6100 unloaded.
No I didn't. I said loaded, not unloaded. Big difference. Re read the post. Get your facts right.
And 7500 rpm? To me implies big time unloading for your power. Can you explain that other that saying it's not a good thing?
Nope. That was outa the hole, not unloaded. My comment was aimed at the appearant durability of an aluminum impeller. Never even came close to suggesting this was the way to go, anywhere, at any time.
Second Jeanyus. If you bought that aluminum impeller Steel apparantly abused, why are you so sure and not worried 1 bit when you run it this summer? You're not looking for scratches btw.
Abuse is a relative term, Jer. I don't consider it having been abused. Actually, I was very consious of having an aluminum impeller with the HP I had. I gave the impeller a very thorough inspection, although not zyglo, but I did use a magnifying glass anywhere I saw what I considered to be a flaw. There were zero. Zip. Nada. Jeanyus knows exactly where that impeller's been, and the kind of care I take of my shit. I NEVER drove in conditions that allowed my pump to unload more than a little, and if I thought it would even think about it, I throttled down. I ran the boat at CBBB (you were there) in that mess in front of the Avi, and it never unloaded. I had a deep loader in it, flat shoe, and it was set up VERY tight. (And still ran 93-94) If that boat was out of the water, it was because I put it there, and was in full control of the throttle. Throttle control is something I know, Jer. Been doing it for a LONG time, in WAY more HP than my boat. 650 hp is fun, but it's a play toy.
Save your grade school wisdom for your friends. How long you been driving jet boats? Maybe I'll teach you a few things grasshopper...
Your arrogance is exceeding your intelligence. How long I've been driving jet boats is irrelevant. I know guys who've been driving their whole life who still can't get it. Like I said, if you want some lessons...
OK...I'm not going to write untill the sun comes up. I don't know what your problem is here, but you deal with it. You're making the assertion that somewhere I said it was a good idea, or even OK to go with an alum. impeller. I never said any such thing. I mearly, as you have, shared my experience and opinion on this topic based on my experience. I never said you were wrong. I never said you were anything except annoying, which I'm sorry if that dosen't meet your criteria for maturity. Actually, I'm not sorry. You got some serious maturity issues of your own.
So Steel, in your sage and wise opinion, what is the power vs. cost trade-off of building a true 650 hp engine then choosing an aluminum impeller over SS for a lake boat application? I'm sure you know how much $$ it takes to build 650 hp. Is that worth the risk of pump damage or worse to save $800 on the impeller?
Actually, 650 hp can be built on a pretty strict budget. Not everyone here can buy all the good stuff the first time around, and we gotta use what we got untill we can afford what we want. I think it's pretty presumptuous of you to just throw around our $800 like that. That might not be much to you, but if I have to choose between spending $800 or not boating, or boating with an alum. impeller which, in this application has been proven to be able to take it, I'm going boating. Every time you turn the "on" switch on one of these things it's a gamble, by nature. They're recreational. They're for having fun. They're not for worrying untill 5:00 in the freekin morning about, you weirdo! Life's just too damn short!
Ahhh...I give up. You 'da man, Jer. :D :D It's all good. Have some more red! :cool:

[jweeks123]

And Mag. can and is Welded everyday.pops, a friend asked me weld a small crack in his bronze impeller but i declined cause i didn't have any bronze rod.
what is the correct rod for mag-brz. thanks
jw

[pops1]

pops, a friend asked me weld a small crack in his bronze impeller but i declined cause i didn't have any bronze rod.
what is the correct rod for mag-brz. thanks
jwtHE ONE OUR WELD SUPPLY SET UP FOR US WAS WS1 A2ALUMBRZ
iS THE ROD I HAVE. i HAVE BEEN SENDIND ALL OUR WELD OUT TO 2 LOCAL SHOPS AND NOT HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH WELDING ON ANY. yOU CAN ALSO CHECK WITH YOUR LOCAL WELD SUPPLY SHOP AND STATE MAG. BRONZE THATS HOW I GOT THIS ROD. DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE OTHER SHOPS ARE USING AND DIDI NOT ASK. REMEMBER IT TAKES A GOOD HEAT TO DO IT.

[ARS Marine inc.east]

huh? whatd i do now?
personally, i would only run ss, or in certain instances, a heritage mag/bronze. but, some people can run aluminum w/o problems for some time. i think the key is taking it apart and checking everything out once in awhile, and not just running the dogcrap out of it until it looks like the junk on some of the other threads around here.
and i'll tell ya, i've also seen relatively new mag from IMO an inferior company blow completely apart destroying a perfectly good blueprinted bowl. i've also seen a relatively brand new ss impeller crack apart with not all that much hp applied, so when you get some of these things, aluminum or otherwise, hopefully you're getting a good part that was cast properly. but either way, take 'em apart once in awhile to check for cracks or distortion. if aluminum is starting to distort, it's time to get another one or something else. or.....
:D :D Well Said

[LVjetboy]

"Jer! How much wine did you drink through all that?"
So wine's your drink? Just curious. Good for cooking not drinking.
LV posted, "...7500 rpm? To me implies big time unloading for your power."
Steel posted, "Nope. That was outa the hole, not unloaded."
Out of the hole or top speed, at 7500 rpm (w/your power) your intake's unloaded. Sorry to say. And when that load hits your former aluminum impeller more likely to cause damage compared to a SS impeller. Some of that micro damage you can't see with a magnifying glass btw. Not saying you weren't careful, just that 7500 was unloaded for your power and careful's a relative term. Why do you assume I'm not careful with my impeller? I've also run alumimun.
Steelcomp: "You're making the assertion that somewhere I said it was a good idea, or even OK to go with an alum. impeller. I never said any such thing."
Come on.
Your previous posts on p1 taking issue with my ss impeller advise for a lake boat running a true 650 hp. Any wonder why I questioned? You implied OK by stating an aluminum impeller worked for you... "3 seasons at 670 hp (al impeller), saw a few 7500+ blasts, never came apart...lived through it."
Lived through it.
Then you suggested I didn't know how to drive a jet without unloading it. Was that because I said go ss? Have you seen me drive or been in my jet? While you, with your ultimate driving expertise knew how to make Al live. Come on. And my previous posts recommending ss for Taylorman's power? You classified; "Say something worth while, Jer."
Excuse me?
Then you appear to further justify aluminum by saying, "...mfgr's performance limitations are usually about 1/2 the material/design limitations. (Design safety factior)"
Safety factor not a set number varies a lot depending on application, material characteristics, experience and other factors. From 1+ to 10+ and above.
A safety factor or 2 (1/2 material limit as you posted) usually for a non-critical components. Other component failures potentially resulting in injury or death demand a higher safety factor (4 or higher). Do you think impeller failure is non-critical? What if a 650 hp engine hooked to an Al impeller pump fails at speed and locks up?
Are you familiar with the Berkeley chart power limits for aluminum? Or SS? What safety factor do you think they used?
Regardless of all that engineering nonsense, if a safety factor of 2, and you push your al impeller into the limit, what margin do you have for mfg defects or shock loading? Or fatique history? As in a used impeller...
But hey, if the driver has your expertise Steel, no matter how long you've been driving a jet compared to me as you say, then no doubt they'll make that aluminum impeller last? You don't even know me. I've driven both al and ss. And you say you'll teach me how to work the throttle?
F*ck off.
jer

[LVjetboy]

BP posted: "personally, i would only run ss, or in certain instances, a heritage mag/bronze. but, some people can run aluminum w/o problems for some time. i think the key is taking it apart and checking everything out once in awhile, and not just running the dogcrap out of it until it looks like the junk on some of the other threads around here."
As I posted before, why would you only run ss bp? Isn't that a question? Also in the context of Taylorman's lake jet not racer jet post?
ARS Marine posted bp, "Well Said." Bp.
Why is that well said? I recommended ss first in this thread not Bp but response to his post, "well said." Instead I get Steelcomp bs.
Wait. Bp's got racer experience. So if he says go ss, real life, then that's "well said."
Or could it be he says it a bit more diplomatically not stepping on toes alluding to other options and no real true limits...like a politician. All materials can work or not running dogcrap out of it. Or checking what...clearances? After how many runs?
Yet he says go ss. And you say, well said!!
You think Taylorman's gonna check clearances on an alumimum impeller and get the freak'n magnifiying glass out or die check for cracks every other run? Is Taylorman's jet a 1/4 mile racer? No wait, an anal 1/4 mile racer? I'm thinking he's a lake jetter like most of us.
jer

[LVjetboy]

I'm off to the lake. Later...
jer

[Cs19]

I'm off to the lake. Later...
jer
:cool:

[pops1]

Pops posted: "Alum. T6= 25,000 to 35,000 PSI tensile, S/S 89,000 to 135,000 PSI"
List -Alum Impeller $320.00 and S/S $1,000.00 to $1,200."
So figuring how much $$ it takes to build a reliable 650 hp, you're gonna save(?) $880 and sacrifice a reliable pump impeller? That 100,000 psi strength difference seems significant no matter how wise a throttle-man like Steel you are. Especially if used (abused?) Also consider the extra cost of damage to both pump and impeller detail if that cheap a** alumimum impeller lets loose. Not to mention your safety. But if you're as careful as Steel, no worry. Just sell it to the next guy when you're ready to upgrade.
jerJer -Not fair - Mag exceeds most series S/S @ $715.00 and @
110,000 PSI. 135,000 I outlined was our 17-4 SS with a Mild Heat Treat. and we build this one for Fuel Boats. Actually any Alloy at the Loads and HP we see would be rated as Forgetaboutit. Berkeleys Chart I think ALUM to 300 & SS to like 500. Its been a long time since I have seen the chart but its way low to what is real today. So by all Mfg Rating you are on your own anyway.
That leaves you to try and go with the Alloy specific Approx rating.
I have one last thing FYI- Jacks Mag in the case I ran into it in my eye was not Mag at all. Here's how I ran into it- A Dealer calls me and says I want you to come by my shop and verify if a impeller is yours or not. I told him he was as much on top of our impeller as anyone. He says the Job was pulled by the customer from another shop (not Jacks) and he was sold one of your mag. impellers. Questions exist as to is it, and I do not want to tell the customer it is not. You make that call.
I went out and it was not our's, nor was it Mag. My best Guess was- Alum Bronze, a alloy we tried based on a metallurgest on this line and he provided some great insite as to the metal. We found the metal required a Heat Treat to get to the tensile we wanted, yet it still fell short of the mag. we were working with. We did all this, Built 5 and went to the races. Don Harris Blade Runner tried the Impeller. 1- Run and the vanes were dust. 2 other test were made and that alloy was dropped by us. I would need a metal analysis to prove what I am saying yet its color was other then Mag.
Bronze Alloy is Just above Alum.Alloy, starting at the Bronze Level low PSI Tensile. Yet Bronze has a great field of range and application and I know that Alum. Bronze is used on Subs for the Props and I can see why. It did not stand up to a 2000 HP Drag Boat @ 7200+
I guess you guys have been jerked so much you have all become sceptics or just do not believe someone or something. Facts are facts and what it is, is what it is, and most Drag Boats are running our Mag for more reasons other then cost and alloy. That is a fact!. Just do not blame any manufacture on a Alum. Impeller that blows up over 450 HP. or as Berkeley says 300 or so.
Back to Grinding.

[bp]

BP posted: "personally, i would only run ss, or in certain instances, a heritage mag/bronze. but, some people can run aluminum w/o problems for some time. i think the key is taking it apart and checking everything out once in awhile, and not just running the dogcrap out of it until it looks like the junk on some of the other threads around here."
As I posted before, why would you only run ss bp? Isn't that a question? Also in the context of Taylorman's lake jet not racer jet post?
ARS Marine posted bp, "Well Said." Bp.
Why is that well said? I recommended ss first in this thread not Bp but response to his post, "well said." Instead I get Steelcomp bs.
Wait. Bp's got racer experience. So if he says go ss, real life, then that's "well said."
Or could it be he says it a bit more diplomatically not stepping on toes alluding to other options and no real true limits...like a politician. All materials can work or not running dogcrap out of it. Or checking what...clearances? After how many runs?
Yet he says go ss. And you say, well said!!
You think Taylorman's gonna check clearances on an alumimum impeller and get the freak'n magnifiying glass out or die check for cracks every other run? Is Taylorman's jet a 1/4 mile racer? No wait, an anal 1/4 mile racer? I'm thinking he's a lake jetter like most of us.
jer
jer, the only reason i responded to this thread in the first place is because you accused me of saying posting something i didn't even post at all, something about taylorman???? what the hell, are you on drugs? go back and acuse somebody else of stuff willya???.
secondly, i run what i run because of it's strength and durability. i have no intention of installing blow-up bowls, or fly-apart impellers into or onto my pump. reliability and dependability are critical to me, as we've discussed many times in the past.
third, i do not have any desire to make other people's decisions for them. if other people chose to run aluminum with power similar to mine or yours, their choice, their money, their risk. i would not advise it, just as i would advise never running anything from the blow-up-bowl factory, but that's why it's a free country.
as far as what ars mentioned, i think he was referring to the comment about checking stuff out once in awhile. again, whether anyone wants to check, or have their pumped checked out is again, personal choice.
i don't check my aluminum impeller with dye penetrant because i don't have any aluminum impellers. i wouldn't waste my time using dye on my heritage mag bronze, or legend ss.

[steelcomp]

Jer -Not fair - Mag exceeds most series S/S @ $715.00 and @
110,000 PSI. 135,000 I outlined was our 17-4 SS with a Mild Heat Treat. and we build this one for Fuel Boats. Actually any Alloy at the Loads and HP we see would be rated as Forgetaboutit. Berkeleys Chart I think ALUM to 300 & SS to like 500. Its been a long time since I have seen the chart but its way low to what is real today. So by all Mfg Rating you are on your own anyway.
That leaves you to try and go with the Alloy specific Approx rating.
I have one last thing FYI- Jacks Mag in the case I ran into it in my eye was not Mag at all. Here's how I ran into it- A Dealer calls me and says I want you to come by my shop and verify if a impeller is yours or not. I told him he was as much on top of our impeller as anyone. He says the Job was pulled by the customer from another shop (not Jacks) and he was sold one of your mag. impellers. Questions exist as to is it, and I do not want to tell the customer it is not. You make that call.
I went out and it was not our's, nor was it Mag. My best Guess was- Alum Bronze, a alloy we tried based on a metallurgest on this line and he provided some great insite as to the metal. We found the metal required a Heat Treat to get to the tensile we wanted, yet it still fell short of the mag. we were working with. We did all this, Built 5 and went to the races. Don Harris Blade Runner tried the Impeller. 1- Run and the vanes were dust. 2 other test were made and that alloy was dropped by us. I would need a metal analysis to prove what I am saying yet its color was other then Mag.
Bronze Alloy is Just above Alum.Alloy, starting at the Bronze Level low PSI Tensile. Yet Bronze has a great field of range and application and I know that Alum. Bronze is used on Subs for the Props and I can see why. It did not stand up to a 2000 HP Drag Boat @ 7200+
I guess you guys have been jerked so much you have all become sceptics or just do not believe someone or something. Facts are facts and what it is, is what it is, and most Drag Boats are running our Mag for more reasons other then cost and alloy. That is a fact!. Just do not blame any manufacture on a Alum. Impeller that blows up over 450 HP. or as Berkeley says 300 or so.
Back to Grinding.
Quote:
"For sale: 1 Aggressor "A" mag/bronze impeller. 7.224 wearring dia. Has 2 cracks on blades at outter edge. 1 crack is 1/4" long and the other is 3/4" long..." :notam:

[Taylorman]

Steelcomp, give it rest dude, no need to fight about the subject. I have made up my mind to not use an alum impeller. If decided that with the power i stepping up to, i'd be better served by not risking my boat, pump and life to an alum impeller. Im going to spend alot of coin on this motor so im not going to skimp on the impeller. Thanks for all your input.
Kevin

[Jake W2]

Pops :( Pretty sad.
Jake

[steelcomp]

Steelcomp, give it rest dude, no need to fight about the subject. I have made up my mind to not use an alum impeller. If decided that with the power i stepping up to, i'd be better served by not risking my boat, pump and life to an alum impeller. Im going to spend alot of coin on this motor so im not going to skimp on the impeller. Thanks for all your input.
Kevin
T-Man...give yourself a rest....dude... :cool: There's a lot of other guys saying the same thing I am here. I never said alum was ok...just pointing out that it lived with your kind of HP, and will take more abuse than "suggested". Proof is in the pudding, and there's a lot of them out there that have survived besides mine. IMO, driving has a lot to do with it, but that's just my oipinion. Is there a problem with that?? Last I heard, this was a free country. There's some stainless and mag bronze crap out there that, as bp posted, I wouldn't run...period. So simply changing to sst over alum, depending on what you get, might not be a better choice. That is a fact. And I think it's funny how Jer can come on here being purely arbitrary, ranting and raving untill 5:00 in the morning, and you tell me to "give it a rest?? :idea:
Glad you're going stainless...I would always recommend that for your power... if you can afford it. But then again, what's the point in a boat with no stringers? You were saying something about risking your boat and your life?? :confused:
It's all good...just be careful.
I'll rest now. :D

[Taylorman]

T-Man...give yourself a rest....dude... :cool: There's a lot of other guys saying the same thing I am here. I never said alum was ok...just pointing out that it lived with your kind of HP, and will take more abuse than "suggested". Proof is in the pudding, and there's a lot of them out there that have survived besides mine. IMO, driving has a lot to do with it, but that's just my oipinion. Is there a problem with that?? Last I heard, this was a free country. There's some stainless and mag bronze crap out there that, as bp posted, I wouldn't run...period. So simply changing to sst over alum, depending on what you get, might not be a better choice. That is a fact. And I think it's funny how Jer can come on here being purely arbitrary, ranting and raving untill 5:00 in the morning, and you tell me to "give it a rest?? :idea:
Glad you're going stainless...I would always recommend that for your power... if you can afford it. But then again, what's the point in a boat with no stringers? You were saying something about risking your boat and your life?? :confused:
It's all good...just be careful.
I'll rest now. :D
I think you took that the wrong way. Jer, give it a rest dude. Now its even. I was just implying that my question had been answered. Not saying that you were right or wrong. You believe that an alum imp. may be ok for me. Some say no its not. So i think i will step up to something better so i dont risk a failure.
Whats the comment about a boat with no stringers about? Was that a bash on my Taylor? Yes it doesn't have full length stringers, it has a floor instead. Im not looking to go 100 mph here. Its a lake boat, not a dragster.
Kevin

[ChetCapoli]

There's some stainless and mag bronze crap out there that, as bp posted, I wouldn't run...period. So simply changing to sst over alum, depending on what you get, might not be a better choice. That is a fact. And I think it's funny how Jer can come on here being purely arbitrary, ranting and raving untill 5:00 in the morning, and you tell me to "give it a rest?? :idea:
Funny how i ran an aluminum "brand X" impeller for 3 seasons with not even a hint of a problem with 700HP at 5800. :confused: Yet the cheerleaders are all over the place with their camera's and microscopes and all that bullshit when they feel the need to flame??. I gotta laugh at the days when i got flamed with the "bronze was for baby shoes" BS to where there sure seems to be alot of bronze impellers around. Strange i must say.
Alot stranger is this "heritage" company...do they have a phone number or a website? (Kinda like the snoot...not enough info to make a lasting impression if you get my drift). You seem to have made the "board of directors" there steelcomp and do what your told....maybe you would know?? Where are they all???
What taylorman should do is tune his ride with aluminum, get his cut and drop the gold on SS...he's got the $$$$$$$$$$. Nice snoot there bud....cant wait to hear those results! :D Better make sure you check that berkeley bowl everytime out...you just might find a hole in the side with all that HP!
Well if LVboy wont spill the beans...i will....we are related! :jawdrop:
CHET

[oldbuck40]

hey kevin sounds like your having fun with this thread! your boat is a 76 right? and it doesnt have full stringers? thats strange my 73 does! wonder when they changed that. oh by the way im in the 500+HP range and run a stainless A in mine and have had no problem's. i know how ya drive a sj and i would just go with stainless and not worry about it! by the way your pump looks damn good,,clean and sharp! see ya at sommerville and good luck with the little one on the way...

[Taylorman]

Your boat has full lenght stringers? Does it have a floor?

[oldbuck40]

Your boat has full lenght stringers? Does it have a floor?just up thru the middle of the stringers so there isnt a V in the middle of the floor. they run about 4 foot past the hot foot.

[jweeks123]

tensile- Mag Bronze 90,000 to 110,000 PSIare you refering to alloy c86300.
Mag. can and is Welded everyday.what's the deal with all the law suits brought by mag-brz welders against the m-b producers :confused:

[Jake W2]

Chet your gona flip Duane has posted a pic of his new cast snoot I can not belive no one has copied it over to here.
http://www.hi-techperformance.com/images/Cast_Polished_202.jpg
Old buck so your Taylor has full length stringers dont think i have heard of one having that.So is it a SS SJ SSD ?
Jake

[oldbuck40]

Chet your gona flip Duane has posted a pic of his new cast snoot I can not belive no one has copied it over to here.
http://www.hi-techperformance.com/images/Cast_Polished_202.jpg
Old buck so your Taylor has full length stringers dont think i have heard of one having that.So is it a SS SJ SSD ?
Jakeyep its a 73 sj,i realy dont know if it was made that way or not but thats the way it is now and it looks like a factory job,but i still havent seen another 73 sj either! i had like a 75-76 ss that only had stringers just up to the front seats,so who knows????

[bp]

Alot stranger is this "heritage" company...do they have a phone number or a website? (Kinda like the snoot...not enough info to make a lasting impression if you get my drift). You seem to have made the "board of directors" there steelcomp and do what your told....maybe you would know?? Where are they all???
CHET
no they do not have a website, and they only sell their stuff to pro shops - no retail. they do have a phone number and address.
i know who they are, where they came from, etc., but there's no point telling you because your not really that interested anyway.

[steelcomp]

Taylorman:I think you took that the wrong way Sorry if I took that a little personal. I felt a little "singled out" there, and I've just been trying (despite the interfearance) to help by just sahring my experience. Ultimately, the decision is obviously yours.
You believe that an alum imp. may be ok for me.
Wow!!! I can't belieIieve that's what you still get out of what I said. Did you read the last paragraph in my last post? OK...I'm gonna say this one more time...(third time I think) I never said in any way, at any time, any how, that I thought you should run aluminum, or that it was OK that you did. I even said that, even though I did, I wasn't saying it was OK. There were others that said it was OK, but not me. Jer (incorrectly) assumed that because I cited a few examples of aluminum living at higher that advertized HP that it was a recommendation. Not so. Stupid assumption. Don't assume. Also, just because I recognized that for some, cost is a factor, dosen't mean it was a recommendation. Another assumption, I suppose. I thnk I even said that if you can afford it, go with the stainless.
Whats the comment about a boat with no stringers about? Was that a bash on my Taylor? Yes it doesn't have full length stringers, it has a floor instead. Im not looking to go 100 mph here. Its a lake boat, not a dragster.
KevinNo, it was certainly not a bash against your boat, and nothing personal meant, just comparing your concern for your safety with the decision to put 650hp in a boat with no stringers. I'd be more concerned with how the boat's going to handle that kind of power, and handle with that kind of power. You may not go 100 with 650 hp, but you're definately going to have a hot rod, and with that power, the bottom of your boat's going to be doing some strange things under full throttle, and at the speeds you may reach. Obviously you're not building a dragster, but what are you expecting? What do you think you're building with 650hp? IMO, you're putting yourself a lot more at risk doing that, than you would be running an alum impeller, if that's truely a concern of yours. Again, not a dig at you or what you're doing...just an observation. Sorry if I offended...sincerely.
Chit: You seem to have made the "board of directors" there steelcomp and do what your told....maybe you would know?? Where are they all??? Chet...what on EARTH are you talking about??? Take a breath, Chet...try and make some sense. Board of directors???...do what I'm told???...maybe I would know WHAT, you idiot???? :sleeping:

[Taylorman]

Obviously you're not building a dragster, but what are you expecting? What do you think you're building with 650hp?
Heres what im expecting. I have a friend who is is building a "800 hp AV Gas motor" that will be about 12:1, tunnel ram and dual predetor :confused: carbs. He has a Rogers like Cyclones so he thinks he will have a 90-100 mph boat with this motor. What he doesn't know anything about is how different parts affect his setup. He knows nothing about how to setup his hardware. Ive been trying to get him to get on the boards so he can learn about rideplates, shoes, loaders etc. He still has not. He told me once that his big motor will get his boat to this speed alone. So when i told him that the motor that im building is going to be 600-650 hp on pump gas, his response was "Thats all". He said why don't you raise the compression and buy AV Gas at the airport. I just snicker and didn't say anything and thought to myself how im gonna spank his a@@ with my little motor. So thats what im expecting, to beat the sh@@ out of my fellow boating buddy. I doubt anyone on these boards has ever tried to do the same. :D :D :D
Kevin

[PC Rat]

no they do not have a website, and they only sell their stuff to pro shops - no retail. they do have a phone number and address.
i know who they are, where they came from, etc., but there's no point telling you because your not really that interested anyway.
Some of the rest of us are.
Brian

[Duane HTP]

Hey Chet, (Chit)! You need to wipe your mouth, you still have a little BS on your lips.

[bp]

Some of the rest of us are.
Brian
then check your pms... :wink:

[BigMo]

So what would be the best impellor? I just a blower motor in my boat with 850 horse and am about to perchase a new one?
thanks
MO