Banderlog Valve and Thermostat

[78Southwind]

I have a question in regards to using the Banderlog electronic valve and a thermostat. I bought both of them at the same time so I have never run them separately and I am not sure where my solution to my problem exists.
It seems that I am not getting enough water flowing to my over the transom headers at higher RPMs. I find this odd because I would think that pressure and flow would increase to the Banderlog valve and headers as RPMÂ’s increase. I am wondering if there is not enough back pressure to the Banderlog valve due to the use of the thermostat. Is anyone out there running the Banderlog valve and a thermostat or has anyone ever heard of anyone having this problem while using both the Banderlog valve and a thermostat?
I have included a couple pictures of my set-up incase someone has some other suggestions. I have checked the Banderlog valve and it is not clogged and it is coming on at 1500 RPM's.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Southwind_Thermostat.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing3.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing1.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing2.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing4.JPG

[72 Hondo]

It looks like you had a little heat around the wiring, maybe you should check that first.

[Cas]

you ought to go ask the man himself, www.banderlog.com (www.banderlog.com) then click on the discussion forum link

[Oldsquirt]

From your pics it's hard to tell, but it looks like you are drawing water for the Banderlog valve from your coolant dump line. It needs to be hooked into the water inlet from the pump BEFORE the engine.

[Brooski]

Hey Jerry, I do not use the thermostat set-up, but arent the bottom fittings to the thermo housing the bypass outlets that should be hooked up to the inlet Ts on the front of the engine, and the upper outlets are for the water coming out to be dumped when the thermostat opens? If that is true, then when you thermostat opens, the bypass closes, thus not enough water exiting to feed the headers.
I would ask RexOne to look at it to see about the thermo hook up, but I think OldSquirt has the right answer, plumb the banderlog from the inlet, so it always has a water supply.
And I could always be wrong. It has been known to happen once, or twice. :hammer2:

[Taylorman]

No, the top two holes are fot the bypass. The bottom two are dump lines

[Brooski]

Ya learn something new every day! Thanks :idea:
Jerry, disregard most of my ramblings above........ :D

[78Southwind]

Hey Jerry, I do not use the thermostat set-up, but arent the bottom fittings to the thermo housing the bypass outlets that should be hooked up to the inlet Ts on the front of the engine, and the upper outlets are for the water coming out to be dumped when the thermostat opens? If that is true, then when you thermostat opens, the bypass closes, thus not enough water exiting to feed the headers.
I would ask RexOne to look at it to see about the thermo hook up, but I think OldSquirt has the right answer, plumb the banderlog from the inlet, so it always has a water supply.
And I could always be wrong. It has been known to happen once, or twice. :hammer2:
Here is the diagram Roger. I have it set up right.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Thermostat.jpg

[78Southwind]

From your pics it's hard to tell, but it looks like you are drawing water for the Banderlog valve from your coolant dump line. It needs to be hooked into the water inlet from the pump BEFORE the engine.
Oldsquirt
Look at my plumbing pictures again you will see the first Tee, that Tee flows water to the metering valve and then to the Banderlog valve. I put a water pressure gauge on the intake manifold and noticed that the block pressure was variable. I ran the boat on the lake at 3,000 RPM and the block pressure would run between 12 to 19 psi. I am thinking that the block pressure decreases with a dump cycle and increases when the thermostat closes.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Southwind_Plumbing-med.JPG http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Southwind_Banderlog-med.JPG

[Oldsquirt]

Move the "tee" for the Banderlog valve to the unregulated side of the inlet water regulator or control valve. Need to have full pressure and flow available. Should allow you to close the valve on the Banderlog down quite a ways and still have a good "fog" at cruise and wide open throttle.

[fleetimus]

http://www.banderlog.com/products/waterInjectionValve/waterInjectionValveManual.pdf
Hope this works!!!

[Heatseeker]

Here's how I plumbed my valve:
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/3663my_plumbing_schematic.jpg
Although I'm not running a t-stat, I've had no problem with waterflow to the headers with this set-up. I don't run the metering valve at all.

[78Southwind]

Move the "tee" for the Banderlog valve to the unregulated side of the inlet water regulator or control valve. Need to have full pressure and flow available. Should allow you to close the valve on the Banderlog down quite a ways and still have a good "fog" at cruise and wide open throttle.
Oldsquirt
My Gate (reducing) valve runs directly off of the jet before the Banderlog valve but it is wide open. Before I bought the boat the previous owner took off the valve handle and must have welded in its current position. I recently check the valve by replacing the handle and could not turn it so I checked it by placing a pen in the opened end and it is completely open.
I might be wrong but I would think that it would take a very small amount of back pressure for water to flow back to the Banderlog valve.
Are you telling me to place a water regulator after the Banderlog T to create more back pressure for the water to flow back to the Banderlog valve?
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1676Southwind_GateValve.JPG
I have seen others on the HB board run the Banderlog valve with out the reducing valve after the Banderlog valve but they were not running a thermostat. Maybe, the thermostat does not create enough back pressure in the line to flow enough water to the Banderlog valve? If this is correct then I would think that adding the regulator would fix this problem. Anyone else have any suggestions while I look for new fittings?

[Oldsquirt]

I mentioned the regulator just to cover all bases for anyone reading this thread. if you look at the plumbing diagram, you will see that Jim intended the Banderlog to take it's water BEFORE any flow/pressure reducing devices.
I installed mine in 2002(first paying customer :) ) and for convenience sake, had it AFTER my gate valve. It had a few issues and when I put it BEFORE the valve all problems were gone.
I do not have a thermostat kit installed but run one wide open dump line which I would expect to create less back pressure than your setup. I don't have any idea why someone would set your gate valve wide open. In 20+ years with a couple different jets and setups, I've always needed the gate valve in about the 1/2 open position for adequate temps(all without thermostat).
Just a suggestion. If you are going to do any replumbing, add a ball valve on the pipe from the pump. Leave it set WIDE OPEN. In case of any hose or fitting failure, you will have a QUICK way of stopping any water leak. Little safety tip. :)

[BobS]

Maybe, the thermostat does not create enough back pressure in the line to flow enough water to the Banderlog valve? If this is correct then I would think that adding the regulator would fix this problem. Anyone else have any suggestions while I look for new fittings?
I would think that you would tend to see an increase in line pressure with a thermostat as opposed to a straight through (no thermostat) flow because 1) the thermostat is restricting passage of the water out of the block to raise block temp and 2) the by-pass spring is going to hold a certain amount of pressure before by-passing the thermostat.
But then again, your mileage may vary.

[squirt]

sorry this took so long, I can't tell from the pics how the plumbing is. What I do know is, it is best to tee off the hard line (off in comming line) from the pump, then to the banderlog valve. I can't imagine the thermostat having any effect if it is plumbed this way. Iknow the valve has been used in systems with regulators, and I'm almost positive it has been used with thermostats before. Are you saying it provides good water in low RPM ranges but not enough at high RPM"s? What ever I can do to help let me know. I want you to be satisfied with the valve!
Don

[78Southwind]

sorry this took so long, I can't tell from the pics how the plumbing is. What I do know is, it is best to tee off the hard line (off in comming line) from the pump, then to the banderlog valve. I can't imagine the thermostat having any effect if it is plumbed this way. Iknow the valve has been used in systems with regulators, and I'm almost positive it has been used with thermostats before. Are you saying it provides good water in low RPM ranges but not enough at high RPM"s? What ever I can do to help let me know. I want you to be satisfied with the valve!
Don
I made the suggested change to place the water pressure reducing valve following the banderlog electronic valve. I really thought this would have solved the problem. However, I still have my gremlin. It seems like the T-Stat controls water pressure by the spring that allows the water to flow out the dump. I don't know how much water pressure is needed to compress the spring and allow the water to dump but I am guessing that it must be rather low. If this is true the only thing I can think of is that there is not enough water pressure to flow back to the banderlog electronic valve due to the T-Stat spring compressing and dumping the water. Here is a good example of how I have the banderlog plumbed with a T-stat.
What is odd is that when I trailer tune with the banderlog I don't seem to have any issues. However, the water pressure that I use at the hose bib is probably a lot less than what the pump is creating. Thinking if this is true next time I will try to watch the water pressure from the hose bib and increase it to 5 or 10psi and see if the banderlog valve stops flowing.
My lines are all -10 AN except to the headers which are -8 AN.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Banderlog_T_Stat.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676T_Stat_Hot_Cold.JPG

[diggler]

I seem to remember a thread from Banderlog where there was an issue with silt clogging the water controller.
I tried finding it, but was unable. I pretty sure it was discussed this year before Jim sold the site.

[78Southwind]

I seem to remember a thread from Banderlog where there was an issue with silt clogging the water controller.
I tried finding it, but was unable. I pretty sure it was discussed this year before Jim sold the site.
I checked the filter and it was fine. Then I ran the boat on the trailer and the Banderlog valve worked great. However, I think it ran fine because at the hose bib the water pressure is possibly lower and constant. If the water pressure is lower (I believe) then the spring in the T-Stat is not completly compressed and thus creates a back flow to the banderlog.

[squirt]

I checked the filter and it was fine. Then I ran the boat on the trailer and the Banderlog valve worked great. However, I think it ran fine because at the hose bib the water pressure is possibly lower and constant. If the water pressure is lower (I believe) then the spring in the T-Stat is not completly compressed and thus creates a back flow to the banderlog.
I can't figure this one out either, looks like a learning experience. Do you know what Block pressures you have at different times? I monitor my block pressure off t-stat housing. My valve works at all pressures I have tried. I have ran as little as 3lbs up to 25lbs while toying around. Since you have a t-stat to control temp might try opening the ball valve a little more. A hose bib might just suprise you in that it will provide more pressure than your pump if the ball valve is closed down alot. Donno but this might be a volume issue with the t-stat dumping off more than required for water to take the turn up the tee. Let me KNOW!
Don

[78Southwind]

I can't figure this one out either, looks like a learning experience. Do you know what Block pressures you have at different times? I monitor my block pressure off t-stat housing. My valve works at all pressures I have tried. I have ran as little as 3lbs up to 25lbs while toying around. Since you have a t-stat to control temp might try opening the ball valve a little more. A hose bib might just suprise you in that it will provide more pressure than your pump if the ball valve is closed down alot. Donno but this might be a volume issue with the t-stat dumping off more than required for water to take the turn up the tee. Let me KNOW!
Don
Don
My guess is that there is nothing wrong with the water injection valve but just does'nt work with the thermostat. If I could only find someone that has run a thermostat with the water injection valve successfully I could prove my guess wrong and look for other answers.
I run the ball valve off of the pump at wide open. With the water pressure regulator the water pressure at the t-stat is 2psi at 2,000 RPM's, 5psi at 3,000 RPMs and 10 to 12psi at 4,000 RPM's. However, the pressure will drop from time to time by a couple psi. My guess is that the pressure drop is due to cycling of water when the thermostat opens or closes. I have also ran it with out the water pressure regulator but only paid attention to it at 3,000 RPM's where it ran between 12 to 19 psi. When I run it off the hose bib the water pressure is usually zero. Next time I run it off the hose bib I am going to run it between 5 and 10 psi and see if the headers flow of steam stops.

[Oldsquirt]

If you feel the t-stat is the problem, put the old setup back and see how it does. I highly suspect the t-stat setup will have slightly more restriction, and therefore higher pressure.
By the way, how much "water" are you expecting to see at WOT? Should only be a "fog".
You know, since you have that capped "T" where the banderlog is connected......Why not connect a pressure gauge right there to see what is going on while running?

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Nice looking mill;)
396
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Southwind_Thermostat.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Southwind_Plumbing.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Southwind_Banderlog.JPG

[78Southwind]

If you feel the t-stat is the problem, put the old setup back and see how it does. I highly suspect the t-stat setup will have slightly more restriction, and therefore higher pressure.
I will have to buy some new parts but I think I am going to test it with the old set up.
By the way, how much "water" are you expecting to see at WOT? Should only be a "fog".
I ran the boat this weekend and never saw a fog until I tested it on the trailer.
You know, since you have that capped "T" where the banderlog is connected......Why not connect a pressure gauge right there to see what is going on while running?
That's a good idea as well.
Thanks

[78Southwind]

This is the current plubing.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Southwind_Thermostat.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing3.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing1.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing2.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1676Plumbing4.JPG[/QUOTE]

[78Southwind]

I can't figure this one out either, looks like a learning experience. Do you know what Block pressures you have at different times? I monitor my block pressure off t-stat housing. My valve works at all pressures I have tried. I have ran as little as 3lbs up to 25lbs while toying around. Since you have a t-stat to control temp might try opening the ball valve a little more. A hose bib might just suprise you in that it will provide more pressure than your pump if the ball valve is closed down alot. Donno but this might be a volume issue with the t-stat dumping off more than required for water to take the turn up the tee. Let me KNOW!
Don
Don
Where do I go from here? I thought it might be a flow or back pressure issue between the t-stat and the valve, however, I put a gate valve on the dump side to try and increase the block pressure and still had the same problems. Can you think of anything else that may be causing the valve to come on at 1.500 RPMS and then shut off at 2,500 to 3,000 RPMS. I did notice that this time out the banderlog didn't always come on every time at 1,500 RPMS. My ignition that I am running is a MSD 6M-2 with MSD distributor.

[sanger rat]

That sounds like a electrical problem. Check all the wires.

[squirt]

Sounds to me like that puppy needs to come home for an evaluation, and if it has been pooping on the carpet I'll rub it's nose in it but good. Anyway I got your email and I've replied, we will make it right!
Don