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View Full Version : Seeking Ultra boat opinions/advice



Titan7
04-02-2005, 12:26 AM
I met with John today, very nice guy, no pressure sales tactics. I think I have the wife going for the 21' Stealth. More newbe questions I thought I would bounce off you guys which are the big concerns.
Motor: 454 with 390 HP :Do these have EFI or is it carbureted? I guess these will hit 55MPH with a jet drive? The only reason I am thinking Jet is I would take the boat out to the river, Blythe, Needles, but also Havasu and Mohave, Powell. Is the 502 motor a cost effective or worth while option?
Swim steps: I like the 1 piece fiberglass step John has on the Fear Factor boat but it's smooth which concerns me with people slipping. Anyone have suggestions for some kind of non-slip rubber that will look OEM and not peel up? The teak one piece step looks out of place (IMO) on this boat, looks like it should be on a Malibu, not bashing, just my 2cents.
Trailer, is it worth the money to by the swing tongue trailer vs the STD? I will not be storing it in my garage, it will not fit!
Finally, How in the heck did you guys choose colors and graphics?? Do I go flames like many other, it looks great but I remember the checkerboard graphics from the early 90s, will fashy graphics hurt resale?
Too many choices for a new boat.
Anything special I need to do as far as the a contract is concerned? What needs to be in writing and to what level of detail?
I am open ears for any advice on the boat, contract, what to look for etc.
thanks, you all have been very helpful!

Kilrtoy
04-02-2005, 12:36 AM
John is an up front guy, If he tells you something I would trust him...
A jet would get you 55, but it burns gas..
As far as graphics, what I like, you may not, go with what makes you happy.....
The wood can be just as slippery as the fiberglass.
You mention colors/paint.
I would stay away from green. it is hot right now, but so was hot pink in the 90's... try an unload a hot pink boat today, it aint happening...
give John your colors and tell him to go wild... You wont be disappointed.....

Phat Matt
04-02-2005, 12:36 AM
Just buy mine. It will be going up for sale soon. :D

Kilrtoy
04-02-2005, 12:36 AM
Oh and YES get the 502 jet , not the 454

HOOTER SLED-
04-02-2005, 12:51 AM
I'm not sure about Blythe, but depending on the time of the year, your good at Needles with an I/O. I have a 454 w/ jet. You will burn some gas. I personally don't do ALOT of long distant trips. Have only done AVI to Havasu once. I'll drive to get closer to where I wanna be. That's just me. I have an 1989. I will eventually go to billet swim steps because the teak steps date my boat. As does the tuck and roll. When I update the interior, as well as change out the steps, my boat will pass for a "newer" boat. My boat is also blue w/ white bottom. Kilr was right. If you like what is now. Go with the trend. If you are looking for more of a "timeless" style, go basic colors w/ billet. As for power, I may be wrong, but going with a 502 should give you a better base to start with, should you wanna build up. 4 bolt main, steel crank, etc... I'm no motor expert though. Good luck man. See ya out there.

INSman
04-02-2005, 07:00 AM
Just buy mine. It will be going up for sale soon. :D
NO, buy mine, it's up for sale now !! :D :D

chub
04-02-2005, 07:33 AM
I had a 21 ULTRA 454 jet for 12 years. With 390 HP you'll get better than 55. Make sure you place divert that thing. Your gonna love that boat. I have a wacker now and it burns more gas than that squirter did. If your gonna biatch about gas don't buy a boat. No whiners. Made the trip from havi to avi plenty of times. There's gas in Topock or Moabi. Buck up. As far as graphics, I like the old school "hockey sticks" on the closed bow. Good luck with your adventure.

cc322
04-02-2005, 07:40 AM
I think if you like the Ultra it is a great product, however depending where you boat most often you may want to consider some of the other builders that offer a jet in a deeper v design, I think Laveycraft makes the 21 xtski in a jet very deep v and I believe Shockwave makes thier step skier in a jet also a deep v, just not sure if Ultra make a deep v in a jet, seems that most jets come on a 18 degree bottom, pretty shallow for havasu and the biger lakes. Not trying to push any one builder but learning from experience try to do it right the first time good luck.

chub
04-02-2005, 08:00 AM
cc322 good advice. That ULTRA was my second boat. didn't do it right the first time. I think that ultra has a 21 degree deadrise.

Lightning
04-02-2005, 08:03 AM
I met with John today, very nice guy, no pressure sales tactics. I am think at have the wife going for the 21' Stealth. More newbe questions I thought I would bounce off you guys which are the big concerns.
Motor: 454 with 390 HP :Do these have EFI or is it carbureted? I guess these will hit 55MPH with a jet drive? The only reason I am thinking Jet is I would take the boat out to the river, Blythe, Needles, but also Havasu and Mohave, Powell. Is the 502 motor a cost effective or worth while option?
Swim steps: I like the 1 piece fiberglass step John has on the Fear Factor boat but it's smooth which concerns me with people slipping. Anyone have suggestions for some kind of non-slip rubber that will look OEM and not peel up? The teak one piece step looks out of place (IMO) on this boat, looks like it should be on a Malibu, not bashing, just my 2cents.
Trailer, is it worth the money to by the swing tongue trailer vs the STD? I will not be storing it in my garage, it will not fit!
Finally, How in the heck did you guys choose colors and graphics?? Do I go flames like many other, it looks great but I remember the checkerboard graphics from the early 90s, will fashy graphics hurt resale?
Too many choices for a new boat.
Anything special I need to do as far as the a contract is concerned? What needs to be in writing and to what level of detail?
I am open ears for any advice on the boat, contract, what to look for etc.
thanks, you all have been very helpful!
I have a 21' Ultra XS model. Here are my opinoins to your questions.
Motor: I had a 454Mag (390 hp) which was a good reliable motor, however I always wanted to go a little faster. I wish I would have gotten the 502 with headers. I was hard pressed to find 55mph with the 390 hp. Maybe with minimal gas and no passengers. Also, I would strongly consider doing a setback jet with a droop snoot and place diverter.
Swin Step: I am not a big fan of the fiberglass swimstep...yes it offers more room, but when it's gets scratched up it's not going to look good. The billet swim steps look good, but are not too functionaly in my opinion. I opted for the teak swim step and have no complaints; it's roomy, easy to make look new again, durable, not slippery, and it was less then the billet swim steps when I bought my boat.
Trailer: I did the break away tongue, mainly as a security feature but also because it saves a little space. I's nice to chain up the tongue when you are storing the boat. Another option you may want to consider if you are doing a lot of towing are the polished stainless fenders.
Graphics: Go with what you want, but if you plan on keeping you boat for a long time and have concerns about it looking dated, keep it simple. I would also consider a different base color besides white, there are a ton of white boats running around. If I was to do it over again, I would have opted for dove grey with grey interior, much easier to keep the interior clean.
Contract: Put everything you want in writing, that's just good common sense and avoids any potential problems down the road. You know for stuff like this, "I thought this boat came with cleats" . . . ."no, those are an option"
Hope this helps, if you want some more feedback or want to pick my brain, shoot me a PM or give me a call.

Ultrafied
04-02-2005, 08:22 AM
John is an up front kind of guy. If you have any idea of colors or graphics you might like, just tell John and he will start drawing. He is pretty amazing at getting an idea or concept done on paper just from talking with you. Look at the pictures he has of other boats to get something going.
The swing away tongue in my opinion is great. I can lock it back for security and I can save space. It was just a no-brainer on that one.
Always get the most engine you can because you will always want more once you get it out on the water!
Last, my dealing with John, Steve and Mike were awesome. They always treated me like family and still do. You can do a lot worse then staying with the Ultra family!
Good luck. Any questions, just PM me ... :D

ryantparks
04-02-2005, 09:03 AM
I have an 02 Ultra Stealth and love it. We boat primarily in Laughlin on the river and make an occasional trip down river to Havasu where my boat gets really beaten up on that lake if its somewhat choppy.
I have the carburated 502 w/420hp and it probably does an honest 58 mph or so with the setback pump and a place diverter.
I have the billet swim steps and dont really like them and would have preffered the teak swim step or equivalent because it is a pain getting in and out of the water and especially for the kids. Also the wake board scratches the billet steps so I dont do that anymore.
I keep the boat at the river so I dont have the swing away tongue on the trailer.
All in all its a great family and sporty boat for us and I would buy another!http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/605DSCF0003-med.JPG

Titan7
04-02-2005, 09:36 AM
Thanks, great suggestions! I agree John and everyone I spoke with was great. It hard to find that kind of service these days.

RandyH
04-02-2005, 10:54 AM
You dont need much of a contract with John. His word is solid. Go with the 502 or bigger. The set back pump will have the hand hole cover outside the boat. Might be hard to access it with a full width swim step. The aqua step works well with the Billet Swim steps but I am not sure they will work with the new mufflers that are being required. Good Luck .
RandyH

Riverdad
04-02-2005, 12:53 PM
I bought the original 21' 2001 XS from John. I have had no problems that weren't corrected right away and the boat is still running great.
You are talking like I was thinking back when I bought my boat. I was always at the river and went with the 454 jet. It has been a great river boat but you will take a beating on busy weekends at Havasu. The boat is just not long enough to handle the waves casued by the other boats.
As far as speed goes, I top out at 56 MPH and I have had the jet gone through.
If at any point you think you are going to spend more time in Havasu, you might think about a longer boat if finances allow.

Lightning
04-02-2005, 01:13 PM
I bought the original 21' 2001 XS from John. I have had no problems that weren't corrected right away and the boat is still running great.
You are talking like I was thinking back when I bought my boat. I was always at the river and went with the 454 jet. It has been a great river boat but you will take a beating on busy weekends at Havasu. The boat is just not long enough to handle the waves casued by the other boats.
As far as speed goes, I top out at 56 MPH and I have had the jet gone through.
If at any point you think you are going to spend more time in Havasu, you might think about a longer boat if finances allow.
When you saw original, do you mean the first one he built? I think mine is the second or third, post a photo of yours.

FRENCHIE
04-02-2005, 02:33 PM
if mine does not sell to a potential friend who is interested!!!!???? if youd like a look at a 25' Shockwave let me know also!!!! ;)
oh and ultra makes a great boat also!!!! :hammer2:

Woodster
04-02-2005, 02:51 PM
I have a 22ft Stealth and its been a great boat. John has always been a great guy to deal with and he has gone out of his way to take care of us. I have the 502 with the setback pump. I think the best ive done is maybe 62-63mph. I would get the setback pump for sure..It gives u a little more interior room.I would also upgrade the engine to at least the 502.It has alot more grunt for pulling tubers and wakeboarding and it will give u a few more MPH. As far as graphics, thats a tough decision. John will prob have a million diff ideas to chose from and he's one hell of an artist.He'll hook u up.They are great boat and u wont be dissapointed

Titan7
04-02-2005, 03:04 PM
I will talk to John on Monday again about the motors. Is there any other options to add to the 454mag 390 HP that will help in speed or pulling like a intake mod or impeller or is that just thowing good money away vs going to the 502.
I agree that it will be hard at Havasu or Mohave with the 21. My buddy's 21' Rogers gets killed there! Last summer coming back from the sand bar was scary, 3-4' rollers, high winds, that was horrible!
I don't really want to go 23'-25' due to cost, this being my first boat, and the fact I do go down to Bythe.
Thanks again guys, I am really glad I found this site.

Titan7
04-02-2005, 03:12 PM
I like what you did, but might make some slight changes and different colors. Dark blue and silver

Riverdad
04-02-2005, 03:20 PM
My boat is the original one and it was featured in the October ***boat magazine article. It has been a very good boat so far and it still gets a lot of use at Havasu and on the river.

CBLavey
04-02-2005, 03:40 PM
I think if you like the Ultra it is a great product, however depending where you boat most often you may want to consider some of the other builders that offer a jet in a deeper v design, I think Laveycraft makes the 21 xtski in a jet very deep v and I believe Shockwave makes thier step skier in a jet also a deep v, just not sure if Ultra make a deep v in a jet, seems that most jets come on a 18 degree bottom, pretty shallow for havasu and the biger lakes. Not trying to push any one builder but learning from experience try to do it right the first time good luck.
CC...I believe that the jet versions from both Lavey and Shockwave are standard, non-step hulls - still with 21 degree bottoms. There is a big difference in how they ride but I don't think that either would perform as well- be as quick, as the 18 degree Ultra.

Tom Brown
04-02-2005, 03:44 PM
I had a 21 ULTRA 454 jet for 12 years. With 390 HP you'll get better than 55. ...I have a wacker now and it burns more gas than that squirter did. If your gonna biatch about gas don't buy a boat.
Get your wacker fixed. What whacker can soak up 39 gph at WOT, never mind at 55 mph?

THOR
04-02-2005, 03:48 PM
My Dad has a 21' Stealth and loves it. He has an I/O though.

cc322
04-02-2005, 04:50 PM
CC...I believe that the jet versions from both Lavey and Shockwave are standard, non-step hulls - still with 21 degree bottoms. There is a big difference in how they ride but I don't think that either would perform as well- be as quick, as the 18 degree Ultra.
Maybe.. BUT the 21 degree would be smoother, I had the 21 footer in a 18 degree bottom and got beat to death, then again we only boat on the bigger lakes

voodoomedman
04-03-2005, 10:01 AM
There are some great manufacturers out there. Being that your asking about Ultra... They are one of the greats. Yes it is always good sense to get everything in writing but if you forget something then you don't have to worry about anything with John. First of all his boats come with the bells and whistles in the first place. You can simply get a more lucrative and expensive whistle if you want. Think about how you will spend your time on the river. If you will spend more time on Havasu or Mojave then on the river itself then go with the 24 footer if you will be mostly on the river then stay with the 22 footer. There is a 21 stealth and 22 stealth though. One has more freeboard and will ride better. The other one will be faster. As far as graphics then just talk with John. He is an amazing artist and will tell you what is in, what isn't, what is timeless... He will draw it and amaze you. He himself did the airbrush gel work on Jesse James 27 Shadow. As far as engine, if you can afford it go bigger. Not to say you need racing engines but I talked my wife into the 496 over the 6.2 and I am happy. I would be dissapointed everytime I took my boat out with the 6.2. I am stoked everytime I take my boat out. And if you can get the swingaway hitch then go for it. You may want it down the road and it's not something you just go down the street and have put on real easy. My truck fits in front of my boat in my garage in Havasu but I park a bit over the tongue. I can do it cuz my truck is lifted. If not I might be in trouble. I don't really need it but it would just be nice. And stainless fenders would have been nice too. Heres a tip though no matter what kind of fenders. By a rubber bath mat that you use only for that so you don't get your fenders scratched up when getting in and out of the boat. Any other questions feel free to PM me.

jbtrailerjim
04-04-2005, 09:07 AM
Great choice of boats! You will be very pleased with Ultra. The experience I had with them was awesome! John loads up his boats with lot's of options. Make sure when you buy your boat you add any options you think you might want if you can afford them. You will kick yourself for not getting certain options you wanted after the purchase. I know there were a few things I thought I really did not need or didn't think of before I bought my boat. Now I am kicking myself for not adding it to the boat before it was built. For graphics just give John some ideas you have and let him work his magic on paper. He is quite an artist. I'd stay away from trendy colors. John will give his opinion on what he thinks is cool and what is not. Good luck with your purchase and enjoy. :cool:

Beer-30
04-04-2005, 10:07 AM
Hey Titan, if this is your first boat (like mine is), I highly suggest used. You would be wayyy far ahead if you buy something like INSman's Dana. That 23 got really good reviews on rough water with ***boat. Additionally, it is injected so the motor part is moot.
Look at ***boat reviews of 21s, 22s with jets and then the same hulls with outdrives. I always look at the speeds at 4000. If you are at Hava or Mojave, and you are going to go the length of the lake, you will probably not be at idle nor will you be at WOT. I have noticed that the jets are about 35-38 mph and the outdrives (some of them 350mags!) are 50-52+. Jets have their place, but for family boating and economy (esp these days!) I would look for something a few years old with an outdrive to start with. That way, if you find stuff you don't like, you know you can order the perfect boat later down the road.
I saved tens of thousands buying a 3.5 year old. Has 165 hours and is still like new.

INSman
04-04-2005, 10:24 AM
Hey Titan, if this is your first boat (like mine is), I highly suggest used. You would be wayyy far ahead if you buy something like INSman's Dana. That 23 got really good reviews on rough water with ***boat. Additionally, it is injected so the motor part is moot.
Look at ***boat reviews of 21s, 22s with jets and then the same hulls with outdrives. I always look at the speeds at 4000. If you are at Hava or Mojave, and you are going to go the length of the lake, you will probably not be at idle nor will you be at WOT. I have noticed that the jets are about 35-38 mph and the outdrives (some of them 350mags!) are 50-52+. Jets have their place, but for family boating and economy (esp these days!) I would look for something a few years old with an outdrive to start with. That way, if you find stuff you don't like, you know you can order the perfect boat later down the road.
I saved tens of thousands buying a 3.5 year old. Has 165 hours and is still like new.
That it what I was thinking, thanks Beer-30 !! :D
He would get a great deal and lose very little if any money on my boat when he goes to sell it. Basically enjoy for a year or so for almost free !! ;)

Titan7
04-04-2005, 10:43 PM
Very tempting buy I have to stay with the 21 for a number of reasons.
Anybody see a review on the 21' jet 7.4 liter 454 vs the I/0? I can only find a review of the 21 Slealth with the 502.
Any waterskiers out there? I know the jet will not pull out of the hole or provide flat wake like my friend's Malibu, but I don't want to drink 10 gallons of water getting up or cross a wake that looks like a ramp either. Most of my skiing friend are 6,2'+ 220.
Won't the Jet pull a skier out of the hole faster than the 350/Bravo 1 option?

NashvilleBound
04-05-2005, 03:43 AM
NO, buy mine, it's up for sale now !! :D :D
No, buy mine its for sale now too ;) (mines bigger :D )

essexjet
04-05-2005, 04:02 AM
if mine does not sell to a potential friend who is interested!!!!????
So if I dont buy your boat we cant be friends :supp:

BarryMac
04-05-2005, 06:05 AM
Very tempting buy I have to stay with the 21 for a number of reasons.
Anybody see a review on the 21' jet 7.4 liter 454 vs the I/0? I can only find a review of the 21 Slealth with the 502.
Any waterskiers out there? I know the jet will not pull out of the hole or provide flat wake like my friend's Malibu, but I don't want to drink 10 gallons of water getting up or cross a wake that looks like a ramp either. Most of my skiing friend are 6,2'+ 220.
Won't the Jet pull a skier out of the hole faster than the 350/Bravo 1 option?
Jet's don't make great tow boats, because of there propulsion they make the water behind the boat very turbulent and they really don't make a very good wake, don't get me wrong you can ski behind them they just don't make a great ski boat.
My boat has the 454 with the sportpak, 390hp, it gets up on plain very quick and is very quick out of the hole, if you opt for the 454 make sure you don't buy the engine with the base 330hp, you will regret it, spend the extra cash and upgrade to the higher hp motor, when you start getting into the 496 or 502 your looking at quite a bit of extra cash, anywhere from 2 to 4 grand more, if you are going to keep the boat for quite some time do it, you will become bored with the 55 - 60 mph mark quickly...

BoatPI
04-05-2005, 06:39 AM
Or... you could buy the new Seadoo XP twin supercharged Speedster. More room, faster, better handling, adn only $30K list. Oh, it has 420 horsepower and should get more fuel economy, twin 4 cycle intercooled, injected, etc. Not the trick graphics, but for maybe 13K less, that will but alot of paint. A bit larger, look at the new 2005 Yamaha's up to 23'. Things are changing in jet boats

rvrtoy
04-05-2005, 07:57 AM
Or... you could buy the new Seadoo XP twin supercharged Speedster. More room, faster, better handling, adn only $30K list. Oh, it has 420 horsepower and should get more fuel economy, twin 4 cycle intercooled, injected, etc. Not the trick graphics, but for maybe 13K less, that will but alot of paint. A bit larger, look at the new 2005 Yamaha's up to 23'. Things are changing in jet boats
An Ultra vs. a Seadoo? :messedup: Are you kidding me? :sqeyes:

INSman
04-05-2005, 07:58 AM
Very tempting buy I have to stay with the 21 for a number of reasons.
Anybody see a review on the 21' jet 7.4 liter 454 vs the I/0? I can only find a review of the 21 Slealth with the 502.
Any waterskiers out there? I know the jet will not pull out of the hole or provide flat wake like my friend's Malibu, but I don't want to drink 10 gallons of water getting up or cross a wake that looks like a ramp either. Most of my skiing friend are 6,2'+ 220.
Won't the Jet pull a skier out of the hole faster than the 350/Bravo 1 option?
Titan, you are missing out on a killer deal here !! Mine pulls (2) skiers up without even blinking and I built it so you could add a nice Phat Tower is you so choose for wakeboarding !!!

BarryMac
04-05-2005, 08:29 AM
Or... you could buy the new Seadoo XP twin supercharged Speedster. More room, faster, better handling, adn only $30K list. Oh, it has 420 horsepower and should get more fuel economy, twin 4 cycle intercooled, injected, etc. Not the trick graphics, but for maybe 13K less, that will but alot of paint. A bit larger, look at the new 2005 Yamaha's up to 23'. Things are changing in jet boats
SeaDoo on Roids, thanks but no thanks...
there is nothing better than the sound of a Big Block pushing you across the water, no offense BoatPI, there really is no comparison between an Ultra nad the DooDoo...

Beer-30
04-05-2005, 08:30 AM
I thought I had to stay in the 22-24 foot range for price, too. I finally decided to look at used and give up the idea of having a brand-new boat. 2003-2004 24-26s were still bringing $50k+. I saw a few that were $46-48k, and some of those were Eliminators, but they either had the wrong engine or the wrong outdrive or both.
So, I broadened my search to include 1999 and up. For the absolute perfect boat, I would have taken a '99 but that is as old as I could accept. Didn't come across anything I couldn't live without, ......until.
Along came my 2001 Sleek 30'. I had to keep asking myself (and my wife) if I was crazy for looking at a 30 when I had been targeting 22-26s. I could get a boat that I would not run out of room with, even with 17 adults! It had the right motor and outdrive (at least to start with), a real nice medium stereo (better than starting with the stock four speakers and no amp), offshore controls, electric drop bolsters, disc brakes and stainless fenders on the trailer. It is the gel scheme and colors that the wife and I would have done on a brand new one, if we had the choice. Interior same. Snap-in carpet, which is what we wanted also. All of that for the same price I could get a brand-new 21', or even a slightly newer but smaller one. The boat had 165 hours. I was even looking at a 1999 28' Eliminator XP, with 700 hours on the 502/Bravo, for $52k!
In fact, Sleek still has a 1999 30' like mine with a blue motor (500HP EFI), trim tabs, ext steering and a hugh stereo. It needs a good cleaning and detailing, but it can be had for mid-high $40k!
Point is, you can have a lot more boat than you are looking at. Ultra or otherwise. There are used 24'7" XS Ultras with 496s that are 2 or so years old that you could have less than what you will pay for the new one. Plus, I happened to find one in AZ......no sales tax! That would have been close to $4k alone! Nice '01-'03 Eliminator 25 and 26 Eagle XPs pop up all the time for mid-high 40s. If it won't fit in the garage, why not do a 23 like INSman's? I don't even know him, but that was one of the models I looked at. You are already looking at paying sales tax with the new one, so his CA boat is a moot point. However, you would instantly be upgrading to an HO/B1X, probably full-boogie stereo, two props (one for SKIING, and one for speed), big-lake ability, he mentions a tower. All of that for what you are looking to pay for 2 feet shorter with a Jet????? His boat is one of those deals (it's an '04!!!!) that you look to find as a first boat. On your 21, you would take a $10K hit just driving it out of the dealer. A boat like INS's, he took a 20K hit and made it a fine purchase for someone like you or me. After years of searching, I finally found mine. Just trying to help as I have already done all of this footwork. I have been there, done that! Good luck with it. Let me know if I can help.

Mandelon
04-05-2005, 09:18 AM
Go for the Place diverter, bigger motor, the droop and setback. In that order. Spend your money wisely grasshopper.....
You'll get decent mileage if you run at 3500 rpm or so. If you hammer it all the time, you won't get so far....
Crowded days on Havasu you will get beat up. Pick your days. Everything is a compromise, you have chosen well....

RandyH
04-05-2005, 10:29 AM
Go for the Place diverter, bigger motor, the droop and setback. In that order. Spend your money wisely grasshopper.....
You'll get decent mileage if you run at 3500 rpm or so. If you hammer it all the time, you won't get so far....
Crowded days on Havasu you will get beat up. Pick your days. Everything is a compromise, you have chosen well....
Like Mandelon says, with a 540 CI, I can yank the arms off a skier. Have the pump gone thru by MPD as well. Its the best money you can spend. You might want to consider adding a ski pole up thru the hatch as another option.