Need Help With The Math

[Not So Fast]

:confused: If crude oil was around $53 @ barrel (using 55 gallons as a barrel) that figures out to about $.96 @ gallon right? So now that the price is around $56 @ barrel and that figures out to be about $1.01 @ gallon right? I'm not a math whiz by any means but this looks like a price increase of $ .05!!! Here in Havasu the price of gas depending where you buy was about $1.65 to $1.85 five weeks ago, now I'm seeing prices at $2.25 all the way up to $2.50 and some higher. Am I looking at this wrong or is that $.60 more a gallon and the price of a barrel went up by a F---ING NICKEL. I know about the costs of refining the crude and all of that but it was figured into the cost of gas before the price increases happened, so why do we pay $.60 more to offset a $.05 increases in actual cost of OIL. This is not quantum physics here, just simple math. GOD do I hate oil companies, the last quarters profit predictions were, and correct me if I'm wrong, exceeded by 300%. I'm out!! NSF

[ChumpChange]

What is the current price for 91 Octane at the Terribles by the bridge? I usually fill the boat up there and will have to do that next weekend. Want to be prepared.

[Tom Brown]

Deal with this math.
We all have cars. We all need cars. Cars require fuel. There is an extremely limited number of fuel suppliers.
That's all the math you need to know.

[Not So Fast]

What is the current price for 91 Octane at the Terribles by the bridge? I usually fill the boat up there and will have to do that next weekend. Want to be prepared.
I would tell you but by then it would probably be well over what I tell you, the prices have been increasing on a daily basis, sometimes twice a day. Last I saw was about $2.25 for 87. NSF

[totenhosen]

What I always like is when the price of a barrel of oil increases, the price of gas increases immediately as well. However the same can not be said when the price of oil drops.

[spectratoad]

As Tom said, Supply & Demand. Now if we all climb the A$$'s of our local politicians about the local fuel taxes and then we tell the enviro nazi's to kiss our A$$ so we can build a few more refineries than I bet we would be alot closer to that $1.00/gl that you have figured.
:devil:

[Not So Fast]

Deal with this math.
We all have cars. We all need cars. Cars require fuel. There is an extremely limited number of fuel suppliers.
That's all the math you need to know.
Priceless attitude :yuk: NSF

[spectratoad]

I would tell you but by then it would probably be well over what I tell you, the prices have been increasing on a daily basis, sometimes twice a day. Last I saw was about $2.25 for 87. NSF
Even though the gas in the stations tanks has already been paid for at the lower price. WTF :hammerhea

[MagicMtnDan]

It's even more than supply and demand. Oil pricing now is based on futures pricing which is like the stock market. Guesstimates on what the demand and supply will be as well as other factors (like the war, warmer weather, etc.) lead traders to bid up the prices. They bid it up and up and up because they think the conditions are going to be ripe for high prices. The prices then go up because of their activities. It looks like lots of steady supply and continued decreased demand are the only things that push the prices back down. Much easier to make them go up than down. :yuk: And of course the gas stations use any bad news or news about oil price increases to justify bending us all over the pump. :cry:

[Red Eye]

As Tom said, Supply & Demand. Now if we all climb the A$$'s of our local politicians about the local fuel taxes and then we tell the enviro nazi's to kiss our A$$ so we can build a few more refineries than I bet we would be alot closer to that $1.00/gl that you have figured.
:devil:
Just tell me where to sign that petition.

[Tom Brown]

Maybe we should run down the oil companies in the forums. The bad publicity will cost them big and they will have no choice but to be reasonable. :D

[RidinRed]

not to be a Smart A$$ but business 101 says sell for replacement costs. your math is flawed though, I think they are 30-35 gallons and produce 16 gl. of gas. the rest is other fuels and by products. Refining actually produces more product then oil used. Let us not forget the process uses alot of energy too, which we pay for.
Now, that's not to say it doesn't PI$$ me off too.
What are we to do? I think I will go fill all my schit up at one time and save myself some agony

[MagicMtnDan]

Let's make sure we send a thank you note to our government for looking out for us by letting ChevronTexaco buy Union 76. FAWKERS!
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050404/bs_nm/energy_unocal_chevrontexaco_dc

[spectratoad]

Fox News just reported that construction of a new refinery has been approved by the Gubment. I am sure though the enviro's will tie that up in court for years though. :o

[Havasu Cig]

It's even more than supply and demand. Oil pricing now is based on futures pricing which is like the stock market. Guesstimates on what the demand and supply will be as well as other factors (like the war, warmer weather, etc.) lead traders to bid up the prices. They bid it up and up and up because they think the conditions are going to be ripe for high prices. The prices then go up because of their activities. It looks like lots of steady supply and continued decreased demand are the only things that push the prices back down. Much easier to make them go up than down. :yuk: And of course the gas stations use any bad news or news about oil price increases to justify bending us all over the pump. :cry:
You could not be more wrong. Our margins stay about the same, and actually drop a little when prices increase to this extent. We get charged more for fuel and the cost gets passed along to the public. As an owner of branded stations I can tell you we don't make much on gas. The independents on the other hand are making 20-30 cents a gallon. You get what you pay for though.

[Havasu Cig]

Let's make sure we send a thank you note to our government for looking out for us by letting ChevronTexaco buy Union 76. FAWKERS!
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050404/bs_nm/energy_unocal_chevrontexaco_dc
There is no Union 76. They are buying Unocal. The 76 brand is owned by Conocophillips.

[Havasu Cig]

Even though the gas in the stations tanks has already been paid for at the lower price. WTF :hammerhea
I increase price based on what I payed for the fuel. You have to remember that the tanks hold several fuel loads which were all most likely payed for at different prices. A fuel load is 8800 gallons. Our 87 tank at one station alone holds 20,000 gallons. If we are getting price increases multiple times a day for our cost, you can imagine how many time the price could change in one tank load.

[spectratoad]

I increase price based on what I payed for the fuel. You have to remember that the tanks hold several fuel loads which were all most likely payed for at different prices. A fuel load is 8800 gallons. Our 87 tank at one station alone holds 20,000 gallons. If we are getting price increases multiple times a day for our cost, you can imagine how many time the price could change in one tank load.
That makes sense but if it is already in the tank how can a price change happen before another load arrives? :confused:

[Havasu Cig]

Because you are getting multiple loads to fill your tank. I have seen as many as five changes in one day and they are different for each staion by the way depending on location. You have to check the time the fuel was loaded on the truck and then check what time the price change occured to see what price you payed for the fuel.
Lets say I have 18,000 gallons of 87 in the ground and I recieved three 6,000 gallon loads of that grade of fuel. And lets say those loads were delivered 24 hours apart (maybe sooner depending on how many gallons you are selling a day). I check my pricing and find that I have had three 5 cent increases in that time period. The way we figure margines I would sell the first 6000 gallons then increase the price for the next 6000 depending on how much of an increase I had. If prices are going down then it works the same but in reverse.

[spectratoad]

Makes sense now. My father does the accounting for one guy (am-pm) and for another that has since gone out of business. Sounds like Arco rakes those guys over the coals. I have heard that branded station owners dont's make much on the fuel, hence the whole mini mart thing. How do the independants get away with that markup?

[robert_pv]

You could not be more wrong. Our margins stay about the same, and actually drop a little when prices increase to this extent. We get charged more for fuel and the cost gets passed along to the public. As an owner of branded stations I can tell you we don't make much on gas. The independents on the other hand are making 20-30 cents a gallon. You get what you pay for though.
"You get what you pay for" Give us all a break ! It all comes out of the same pipe. Just because you have a big pretty brand flag outside your store doesn't mean your getting fuel with a special refining just for you. Your customers are paying for IMAGE AND BRAND not better fuel.
The market is upside down. Currently fuel from branded distributers is cheaper at the racks than unbranded

[Havasu Cig]

The independents are buying off the rack with no additives ect... Most of the time they are paying a lot less for their gas than we are. If You put gas from an independent in your vehicle you have to know that the quality is less, but most people don't care. On top of that Arco and a lot of independents charge a transaction fee for credit cards or debit cards so they don't have to worry about someone rolling up and putting 2 gallons of gas in the motorcyle, car, gas can ect... and actually losing money on the purchase. I pay between 20-30 cents up front plus 1%-3% of the transaction on a credit / debit purchase. If I am only making 5 cents a gallon you can see how this could kill you.
The money is definitely made with the store, car wash, bays ect... Tough business, it kills me to see a new Mercedes, Porsce ect... pull up to the independent across the street and fill up with a lesser quality fuel because we are a few cent higher but people have a thing when it comes to gas. Chevron and Conoco are the only two brands that have gas rated Top Tier and the fuel is definitely higher quality than any of the other branded stations let alone the independents, but most people could care less. Kind of frustrating sometimes.

[Havasu Cig]

"You get what you pay for" Give us all a break ! It all comes out of the same pipe. Just because you have a big pretty brand flag outside your store doesn't mean your getting fuel with a special refining just for you. Your customers are paying for IMAGE AND BRAND not better fuel.
The market is upside down. Currently fuel from branded distributers is cheaper at the racks than unbranded
Quality PROclean Gasolines have been recognized as a "Top Tier Detergent Gasoline" by four of the world's leading automakers - BMW, General Motors (GM), Honda, and Toyota. The new Top Tier program was established as a voluntary program to identify oil companies who provide the higher level of detergency which helps to prevent deposits on intake valves and fuel injectors. Top Tier Detergent Gasoline requirements exceed the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's minimum level of gasoline deposit control additive performance. The Quality PROclean Gasolines standard already exceeded the Top Tier requirements that were later established and can be found at all stations in all grades.
I guess this is all a lie? Maybe you shold sue Conoco or Chevron for advertising their gas quality then. :rolleyes:

[robert_pv]

The only additives you have in your fuel are brand tracers, no occtane boosters or cleaners. The brand tracers are there so your fuel can be sampled by who ever you have contracted with to verify the your being faithful and not buying else where.

[robert_pv]

I'm not the one who should do any sueing

[Havasu Cig]

So I guess this statement is a lie as well? These are straight from the Conoco site. I am sure Chevron has this info available as well.
All ConocoPhillips gasolines contain synthetic detergent additives, which are is injected into the gasoline at the terminal level. The additive is designed to work in all types of fuels, including ethanol blends, and the dosage is the same into all grades.
The additive is in place to prevent deposit formation in fuel related components. Deposits can rob engine performance and fuel economy. The detergent provides "keep clean" and in some cases "clean up" perfomance for:
Intake valves
Port fuel injectors
Throttle body fuel injectors
Carburetors
The additive also controls combustion chamber deposits and protects against corrosion, water emulsions, and intake valve sticking.
ConocoPhillips gasolines meet or exceed BMW’s lifetime cleanliness standard, the most demanding standard in the industry.

[Havasu Cig]

Are you in the gas business by the way? You are parroting the same thing the independent owners are telling people. If you are I would love for you to post your margins so the people can decide who are the real ones making the money from gas sales.

[robert_pv]

2005-04-08 09:09:34 EDT
**OPIS CBG GROSS PRICES**
Terms Unl Move Mid Move Pre Unl Move Date
COP 1-10 201.15b 4.50 206.15 4.50 214.15 4.50 04/07
COP N-10 207.50o - 3.00 210.50o - 4.00 222.50o - 3.00 04/08
Chevron N-10 201.50b 4.00 206.50 4.00 214.50 4.00 04/06
DiamondSh 1-10 194.50b 2.80 199.50 2.80 204.50 2.80 04/06
Navajo N-10 196.50u 2.00 201.50 2.00 208.50 2.00 04/05
Shamrock 1-10 194.50b 2.80 199.50 2.80 204.50 2.80 04/06
Shell N-10 201.47b 4.00 207.47 4.00 216.97 4.00 04/06
Texaco N-10 201.47b 4.00 207.47 4.00 216.97 4.00 04/06
Valero N-10 207.50u - 2.00 217.50 - 2.00 227.50 - 2.00 04/07
WestrnRef N-10 201.00u 3.00 206.00 3.00 221.00 3.00 04/08
XOM 1-10 203.50b 3.95 208.55 3.95 216.60 3.95 04/07
LOW RACK 194.50 199.50 204.50
HIGH RACK 207.50 217.50 227.50
RACK AVERAGE 200.31 206.01 214.52
BRND RACK AVG 199.73 205.02 212.60
UNBRND RACK AVG 201.67 208.33 219.00
CONT AV 04/07 199.56 205.26 213.77
CONT LOW 04/07 194.50 199.50 204.50
CONT HIGH 04/07 207.50 217.50 227.50
Here are todays rack prices and as you can see branded is cheaper at the rack but not at the pump.

[robert_pv]

Its all running through the Kinder Morgan pipe

[robert_pv]

Gasoline is produced by a refiner and then transported to a wholesale distribution center called a
distribution terminal or rack. Gasoline may be branded or unbranded. Vertically integrated refiners supply
branded gasoline for distribution to their retail stations and may also supply unbranded gasoline for
independent stations. Unintegrated refiners supply only unbranded gasoline. Unbranded gasoline may be
sold only at independent (non-branded) stations. Branded gasoline typically contains additives that
distinguish it from other types of gasoline and is sold to affiliated retailers under contractual terms that
affect the wholesale price.

[burtandnancy]

First of all, back to basics. A barrel of oil is 42 gallons. A drum of anything is 55 gallons. I won't even get into the rest of the arguement. I know I'm budgeting about $750 for a week-end or $1,000 for a three day weekend...

[robert_pv]

Are you in the gas business by the way? You are parroting the same thing the independent owners are telling people. If you are I would love for you to post your margins so the people can decide who are the real ones making the money from gas sales.
I think you will agree that money in gasoline is not made with margins it is made in volume.
One could get rich owning a pay toilet if he has the volume

[Rexone]

All I know is I just spent $100 for the first time filling up a burban. :frown:
Not a happy milestone.
I agree the only ones making the bucks are the oil companies not the branded station owners. And they are doing it because..... they can, nothing more, nothing less. Stop buying gas and the price would come down, but they know they have everyone by the short hairs and will drive the price up as much as possible. It will be interesting to see what this does to the SUV and mid to bigger boat market when gas goes up to $3-$4 a gallon. :frown:

[intense]

Because you are getting multiple loads to fill your tank. I have seen as many as five changes in one day and they are different for each staion by the way depending on location. You have to check the time the fuel was loaded on the truck and then check what time the price change occured to see what price you payed for the fuel.
Lets say I have 18,000 gallons of 87 in the ground and I recieved three 6,000 gallon loads of that grade of fuel. And lets say those loads were delivered 24 hours apart (maybe sooner depending on how many gallons you are selling a day). I check my pricing and find that I have had three 5 cent increases in that time period. The way we figure margines I would sell the first 6000 gallons then increase the price for the next 6000 depending on how much of an increase I had. If prices are going down then it works the same but in reverse.
He's right it's a tough business that's why you don't see the local stations anymore, the big CO's dont want them. I would not want to be in the service station business

[Blahst]

If it makes you blokes feel any better - down here in Oz - we're paying $3.97 a gallon - assuming dollar for dollar. Even with a currency exchange rate incl. its around $3.10 a gallon. :supp:
Hence why you generally don't see speed boats over 20ft in length... unless its a fishing boat :sleeping:
Our major cost, is purely and simply - tax on fuel. - I would assume that you eventually you guys will be heading for the same thing.

[Rexone]

Are we ready for my "I think it's time for a revolution speech"? I want one, I'm gonna have one, and I think everyone else wants one too.
Between the "politicions" (haha,get it?) not abiding by the will of the people, taxing the hell out of us, the oil companies RAPING us for our last cent cuz they can, the banks, grocery companies merging, f*cking slimemart and the cheap imports putting our workers and small businesses in the gutter by paying substandard wages and letting us pick up the social costs for their workers, and let's not forget the f*cking illegal problem.....WHERE DOES IT STOP?
Rio
PS...This post is NOT meant to amuse...This IS how I feel!
It doesn't stop. There are no politicians that have the balls to stop it, rep or demo. It's all about money and greed and none of them will make unpopular decisions that damage the economy short term, but that are right and necessary for the long term survival of the US, and that create the possibily for them to get thrown out of office. This country right now reminds me of a pleasure ride heading down river right over a Niagra Falls. The riders too busy worrying about whos got the most money and biggest margarita to pay attention to what's coming round the bend. The US is becoming a country run by a bunch of oblivious rich guys.
IMO there is a bigger threat is looming than the oil companies and the middle east oil and it's high price or Mexican illegal immagration. And that's China. China is slowly devouring our economy via cheap imports made with $2 hr labor and putting our small and even not so small businesses out of business or forcing them to buy their cheap imported goods to stay competitive and stay in business which essentially makes them American owned Chinese businesses. Actually its several countries but China is by far the largest. Long term I see this killing the US economy and possibly causing the US to fail as a viable country making it an easy target for an aggressor. And that doesn't even touch on the military aspect with China. So they devour our ecomony over 20-30 years, then what. No money, no economy = no military capability either.
I'll prolly be dead but you young peeps are gonna have to deal with this crap that the politicians of today are leading you down the road to. It's your future they're trading away to be friendly with China and Mexico and keep a "vibrant and prosperous" short term (false) economy so they stay in office. It is a joke. When the crash comes it will be harsh.
Perfect example is illegal aliens being allowed to overtake and zap up all "your" tax dollars in free benefits. And not even GW will stop it, it appears, nor anyone else on the political horizon. Problem is they're all afraid about money, it will cost money, it will damage the economy, blah, blah, blah... duh. Nothins free. Everyone in the US needs to suck it up and stop this shit before it is too late to stop it and over the falls we go.
Hope you like white rice and bean burritos and straw huts.

[Big Warlock]

Havasu Cig........you are exactly correct. Thank you for taking the time to explain.
Robert PV. You said something that really gets me and is proven by the pic of the cute baby in what I assume is your boat. "You get what you pay for" and then you said, basically, baloney!!
Then I look at the boat you bought. And I undertand your position. And your beliefs. And I leave it at that. And, by the way, you do get what you pay for.
;)

[mickeyfinn]

Havasu Cig........you are exactly correct. Thank you for taking the time to explain.
Robert PV. You said something that really gets me and is proven by the pic of the cute baby in what I assume is your boat. "You get what you pay for" and then you said, basically, baloney!!
Then I look at the boat you bought. And I undertand your position. And your beliefs. And I leave it at that. And, by the way, you do get what you pay for.
;)
Now that is just wrong.... Bad mouthing someones choice of boat because he expresses his opinion or maybe facts is just not right. Hell at least he is a boater. A lot of people here are haters without a boat.

[Big Warlock]

but I am tired of people on the boards that keep telling all of us things are the same. Gasoline is not all the same. And that is typically believed by the same people that buy certain boats and tell the rest of us that their boat is essentially "the same." Then when bad things happen, they are the ones that say "it could have happened to anyone." Well, not true. You bought a POS, and everyone in the cove knows it when you pull in. We all know what the price of different boats are. And some of us actually know why boats are at a different price.
Havasu Cig was explaining why gas is different at different brand retailers. He is telling the truth.
Some of the details are hard to explain in the price of gas. But there are a few facts. A barrel of oil is 42 gallons. In the cost of refining oil into products, crude oil, or the "material", is only 33 percent of the cost of the end product. Doubling crude oil prices does not translate into a direct doubling of the final product. Market is playing a large role. Several small refinieries have been dismanteled and sold in the last decade. No new refineries have been built in the past 20 or more years. "Just in time" inventory system was introduced by MBAs years back and there by no large inventory stocks of refined products exists. So one thing goes wrong and the demand remains and prices shoot up!
There is plenty of oil. We need new refineries. We need a stable oil market in the middle east. We are the largest consumers of oil and energy in general, by far! Let the big blocks run!!!
Back to my apology. I meant to point out that the individual claiming that all gas is the same is the same individual that bought what appears to be a brand of boat that is less expensive that the typical hot boat. And I was guessing that he would have a similar argument that, within the size range he bought, it's the same as other boats in that class. If I am wrong, please let it be said.
:supp: :supp:

[robert_pv]

but I am tired of people on the boards that keep telling all of us things are the same. Gasoline is not all the same. And that is typically believed by the same people that buy certain boats and tell the rest of us that their boat is essentially "the same." Then when bad things happen, they are the ones that say "it could have happened to anyone." Well, not true. You bought a POS, and everyone in the cove knows it when you pull in. We all know what the price of different boats are. And some of us actually know why boats are at a different price.
Havasu Cig was explaining why gas is different at different brand retailers. He is telling the truth.
Some of the details are hard to explain in the price of gas. But there are a few facts. A barrel of oil is 42 gallons. In the cost of refining oil into products, crude oil, or the "material", is only 33 percent of the cost of the end product. Doubling crude oil prices does not translate into a direct doubling of the final product. Market is playing a large role. Several small refinieries have been dismanteled and sold in the last decade. No new refineries have been built in the past 20 or more years. "Just in time" inventory system was introduced by MBAs years back and there by no large inventory stocks of refined products exists. So one thing goes wrong and the demand remains and prices shoot up!
There is plenty of oil. We need new refineries. We need a stable oil market in the middle east. We are the largest consumers of oil and energy in general, by far! Let the big blocks run!!!
Back to my apology. I meant to point out that the individual claiming that all gas is the same is the same individual that bought what appears to be a brand of boat that is less expensive that the typical hot boat. And I was guessing that he would have a similar argument that, within the size range he bought, it's the same as other boats in that class. If I am wrong, please let it be said.
:supp: :supp:
I never claimed all boats are the same or insinuated that my boat is any better than anyone elses.
I have owned branded and unbranded stations for many years toured the gasoline racks and driven in jobbers delivery tankers that delivered the same fuel to branded and unbranded stations.
You clearly can look at two different boats and form an opinion regarding quality and value.
If you were shown two separate gallons of gasoline and asked which gallon would you pay more for, you would not be able to distinguish the difference. Apparently for you, if one of the cans had a swoosh label on it that would substantiate paying more. The major oil companies and all their advertising have created your mentality. They love you.

[Big Warlock]

I appreciate your comments on the boat issue. Honestly I feel better.
Here is my point on the gas issue. I have an engineering degree and went through my EIT program in the 80s at Halliburton. After a stint in the service I returned to the Halliburton family via Brown and Root Engineering. What did I do? Refinery turn arounds. Not exciting, but you make a living and it got me into construction, which I do heavy civil today.
My father was VP of Mobil Oil for the far east at the end of his career. He then went on to own his own oil company in Houston, Texas.
Do I believe in additives? Yep. Might they be overpriced? Yep. Where does Az. get there refined products from? Mostly Ca. and Tx. Do we require the additives? Nope, not the same as Ca. I slick 50 all my engines after 300 hours or 20K miles. I have had good results with compression testing and oil testing to prove my point. (I compression tested my '72 vette after 100K)
At some point, prior to sale, I believe additives are placed into the delivered gas. I do admit I can't prove that, but I do believe that brands would have been sued with false advertising if it weren't true.
I buy 90 % of my fuel at QT. I buy the 91 octane for the Scarab and the Warlock. I paid $1.86 per gallon of diesel at Pemex in Puerto Vallarta last week.
Thanks again on the boat issue. It is just a pet peeve of mine.
:hammer2:

[robert_pv]

I appreciate your comments on the boat issue. Honestly I feel better.
Here is my point on the gas issue. I have an engineering degree and went through my EIT program in the 80s at Halliburton. After a stint in the service I returned to the Halliburton family via Brown and Root Engineering. What did I do? Refinery turn arounds. Not exciting, but you make a living and it got me into construction, which I do heavy civil today.
My father was VP of Mobil Oil for the far east at the end of his career. He then went on to own his own oil company in Houston, Texas.
Do I believe in additives? Yep. Might they be overpriced? Yep. Where does Az. get there refined products from? Mostly Ca. and Tx. Do we require the additives? Nope, not the same as Ca. I slick 50 all my engines after 300 hours or 20K miles. I have had good results with compression testing and oil testing to prove my point. (I compression tested my '72 vette after 100K)
At some point, prior to sale, I believe additives are placed into the delivered gas. I do admit I can't prove that, but I do believe that brands would have been sued with false advertising if it weren't true.
I buy 90 % of my fuel at QT. I buy the 91 octane for the Scarab and the Warlock. I paid $1.86 per gallon of diesel at Pemex in Puerto Vallarta last week.
Thanks again on the boat issue. It is just a pet peeve of mine.
:hammer2:
With advertising major oil companies do try to create an image that they are giving the consumer a superior product. Those advertising dollars are passed along to you at the pump. You get what you pay for.
Advertising and Image = More $$ at the pump.
p.s. I'm glad you feel better :D

[JAM]

Here's a tangent for this thread and perhaps those in the gas/oil profession can enlighten us on this trend:
Historically (lets just say over the past 5-10 years), if you look at pump prices as compared to the calendar, why is it that pump prices ALWAYS surge upward just before a holiday (ie. Spring Break, July 4th, Memorial Day , Labor Day) REGARLESS of what a barrel of oil costs or the number of refineries are in operation at that given time?????
Spare me the "supply and demand" speech because were only talking a week (at best) of high demand at a time, and since companies know the dates well in advance, surplus gas/oil could be warehoused in preparation for these dates, right?
This is corporate price manipulation plain and simple!!!
JAM
(Just letting the party out of my head and stepping down off my soap box)

[Big Warlock]

Robert PV.......we agree on some things and disagree on other things. Not a bad way to go. I am sure we agree more than we disagree.
Jam....I'll spare you the supply and demand speech.........but as a businessman I do get as much as the market will bear. With holidays, retailers know that consumers are going to "grandma's house" regardless of the price of fuel. So they jack up the prices. It's called capitalism. And if you own a business, you would try to get the most out of it as well. And an enterprising person would see that you are making a killing and undercut your pricing. Unless you are saying that the oil companies are in collusion? And why wouldn't the government step in and stop that illegal practicce, if it were indeed happening? Hmmmmmmm.......maybe because every gallon of gas has approximately 80 cents of federal and state tax??? Hmmmmmm, might it be a political question? Think of all the gas you buy.......then think of how much gas I buy as a business..........30 some 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton trucks............lots of heavy equipment, and I do mean alot of equipment.......then think of all the boaters and SUVs and cars on the road and look at the revenue stream there. Ever wonder how AZ. gas is cheaper than Ca. and NV.? NV has no personal income tax, but they get you on property and consumer taxes. Ca. just likes to get you. Period! And Az. is just a little bit more lenient, thus far.
But don't blame the oil companies on all of it. Sure they have their part, but the good old government has their hand in it and no reason to rein it in either. That includes taking action to assist competition and new infastructure to allow competition.
Shall we get into how congressmen and senators do not pay social security not do they collect because they have their own retirement plan? True! After a minimum time in office (is it two terms? or elected to two terms?) they get their salary for the rest of their lives!!!! Plus cost of living allowance!!! We have problems, but your barking up the wrong tree my friend!!
:hammerhea :hammerhea

[Big Warlock]

without going to far into it......we agree. Your right! Every great society will fail. They always have. when the weak end up running the government, they try to nullify the strong.
Interesting topic that is better left for the lake and a few beers........ :D :D