K&N onto 496 HO...

[Beer-30]

anybody notice much? Ordered one for better air quality into the motor, but has anyone seen a noticeable performance increase?

[phebus]

I installed one on my 496HO, and saw no improvements to speed at all. It was the same on gps, before and after. I left it on for the improved filtering.

[Chromegorilla]

From what I have heard there is zero difference between the KN and stock flame arrestor. I have actually heard from several sources that the stock one actually flows slightly (negligable amount) better. So in fact no noticable difference, only a little more dressed up.

[moneypit]

I have one boat w/ the K&N and one without... No difference. use the money for gas. ;)

[Beer-30]

Thanks, guys. I have always been one for good filtering, since dirt is not a good thing for pistons and such. Wouldn't think there would be too much increase, was just checking. Looks better too, I agree.
I was kinda hoping it would lean it out a little, if anything. Lightly sooty transom is usual. Took the risers off the other day to take out the "turbulators" and noticed it was rather black down in there. I am used to seeing the nice brownish color on tailpipes. Doesn't appear to be carbon (oil), which makes since because in 7 hours, it hasn't used a bit.

[shadow]

Thanks, guys. I have always been one for good filtering, since dirt is not a good thing for pistons and such. Wouldn't think there would be too much increase, was just checking. Looks better too, I agree.
I was kinda hoping it would lean it out a little, if anything. Lightly sooty transom is usual. Took the risers off the other day to take out the "turbulators" and noticed it was rather black down in there. I am used to seeing the nice brownish color on tailpipes. Doesn't appear to be carbon (oil), which makes since because in 7 hours, it hasn't used a bit.
Shouldn't have much dirt to be filtered in a boat,actually the stock flame arrestor will flow better than a k&n,K&n will filter more in dusty applications.
Merc sets up the 496's to run rich on purpose so they will be bullet proof against high cylinder temp cond of running them lean.496 fuel pressure is adjustable externally.If mine was stock i would hook up a fuel pressure gauge and turn it down 2-3 lbs.Threre is a shrader valve in the fuel rail to hook a pressure gauge to and the regulator is opposite of that under the ecu in the fuel rail.Tamper proof torx bit is all it takes to adjust it.

[BowTie Rick]

[QUOTE=shadow]Shouldn't have much dirt to be filtered in a boatQUOTE]
You would be amazed at the crap that attaches itself to a K&N that would normally go right into the motor. Carpet fibers, hair, bugs, and yes dust/dirt. If you have to wash your boat because it gets dirty, then yes a K&N will help. I know I work there but speaking from first hand experience, my flame arrestor gets dirty and the crap that is on it would be going into the motor with a standard one. Honest, I would never BS a fellow board member. Now the one we've got for the 454/502 Mag makes a marked MPH increase but the stock one on those is an under-sized POS.

[shadow]

[QUOTE=shadow]Shouldn't have much dirt to be filtered in a boatQUOTE]
You would be amazed at the crap that attaches itself to a K&N that would normally go right into the motor. Carpet fibers, hair, bugs, and yes dust/dirt. If you have to wash your boat because it gets dirty, then yes a K&N will help. I know I work there but speaking from first hand experience, my flame arrestor gets dirty and the crap that is on it would be going into the motor with a standard one. Honest, I would never BS a fellow board member. Now the one we've got for the 454/502 Mag makes a marked MPH increase but the stock one on those is an under-sized POS.
True,I agree with the carpet fuzz,and belt dust etc.Not to bag on K&N just looking at it as if someone was to expect performance improvements from a flame arrestor it aint gonna happen.Certain applications i belive you could gain.

[Beer-30]

There again, I was just curious about the gain. Usually noticeable on vehicles (both hers and mine have K&Ns), but noticed the stock one is well-proportioned. However, from past use, nothing beats a K&N-type (there are several oiled filters now) for catching better than stock and flowing better too. $60-70 can add several hours to a stock motor.
Sure, you mainly boat in calm, dust free conditions. But when the wind picks up and there is dust blowing across the water, guess what; it's going in your "screen" too. It's just the facts.
Why does the 1050SCI have huge dual K&Ns? Hmmmm.

[Beer-30]

Merc sets up the 496's to run rich on purpose so they will be bullet proof against high cylinder temp cond of running them lean.496 fuel pressure is adjustable externally.If mine was stock i would hook up a fuel pressure gauge and turn it down 2-3 lbs.Threre is a shrader valve in the fuel rail to hook a pressure gauge to and the regulator is opposite of that under the ecu in the fuel rail.Tamper proof torx bit is all it takes to adjust it.
I was looking at the manual, it (of course) doesn't say anything about adjustment. I saw there is a vacuum-reference line, but will get down there and take a peek. I would be willing to try 2lb drop and then 1lb each time from there, if necessary. Doubt it would take much more than that. It's not THAT bad, but it could be improved. I used to dial-in my turbo regal lb by lb.

[team 933]

Once again all hype no gains....good advertising

[BowTie Rick]

Why does the 1050SCI have huge dual K&Ns? Hmmmm.
LOL, that is all me brutha! We are also OE on the HP500, HP600 SCi, and Ilmor Viper motor :D If they had mesh screens instead of K&N's on that 1075SCi, it would whistle so freaking loud the Havasu Marina would forget about the lack of mufflers :hammer2:

[BowTie Rick]

Once again all hype no gains....good advertising
Blah, blah, blah, blah
Shouldn't you be praying to allah right now?

[Beer-30]

Hey, to each their own. All I know is, I just looked at my screen this AM. There is some junk caught in a few of the "squares". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that probably a million other pieces of world got through that square before something came along that was bigger, and plugged it.

[MOBrien]

let's make sure we're talking the same language here. Stock air filter flows less (somewhat restrictive), K&N air filter flows more (less restrictive).
The K&N does NOT filter better, it flows better. And with increased flow, you get less filtering. Sooooo, the K&N will increase your overall air flow, but will decrease your overall filtering capabilities. It's been a tested scenario and the test results were that the stocker is better protection against particles getting through than the K&N but had a slight decrease in air volume.....and a change is not noticeable.
Kinda weird.....I was just at the speed shop and had this conversation today.

[Beer-30]

Genetally speaking, there is usually more SURFACE AREA to a K&N type than stock. No matter what "stock" item we're talking about. Maybe B-T Rick can provide the actual numbers in square inches, I don't know.
Here again, do you see Mercury Racing (who I am sure is smarter than you and I both) bolting clear metal screens on to 525s on up? Um NO! Ever stop and think WHY? I have not seen any Teague or Pfaff motors come along with metal screens either.
And I don't think that a stock 496HO can flow the maximum of that screen OR the K&N replacement. If you see one that can, call Guiness.

[Tom Brown]

Here again, do you see Mercury Racing (who I am sure is smarter than you and I both) bolting clear metal screens on to 525s on up?....
This is what gets me thinking also.
There are a couple of guys at work who always add 15hp to the stock horsepower number when they're telling how great their cars are because they threw on a K&N filter. They aren't kidding, either. I guess they think that none of the major automobile manufacturers know anything about air filters. Come on... there's not that much power to be gained over a stock filter. GM and Ford know how to design an induction system.

[Beer-30]

OH, I'll agree with you there, I have noticed a little on both my vehicles, but nothing radical. I also know that when I take them off to clean them, the throttle body is perfectly clean. No funny stuff, just personal exprience.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1106engstbd-med.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/508/1419Teague_720-_Howard_26_Cat-med.jpg

[Beer-30]

Oops.....could it be????? Do I see K&Ns?????
http://www.mercurymarine.com/uploads/127/hp525efi.gif
http://www.mercurymarine.com/uploads/5106/600SCi_-3-4_view.jpg
http://www.mercurymarine.com/uploads/2966/1075sci.jpg

[INSman]

I can say on my 496HO, it ran the hardest and fastest it ever has this past weekend at Havasu, granted we are talking maybe 2 mph max. It could be the k&N, it could be the motor breaking in, in could have been the weather, but I would assume that maybe the K&N helped out just a little bit.
Who the f knows, the only real way to do it is on a dyno and swap filters !!

[BowTie Rick]

let's make sure we're talking the same language here. Stock air filter flows less (somewhat restrictive), K&N air filter flows more (less restrictive).
The K&N does NOT filter better, it flows better. And with increased flow, you get less filtering. Sooooo, the K&N will increase your overall air flow, but will decrease your overall filtering capabilities. It's been a tested scenario and the test results were that the stocker is better protection against particles getting through than the K&N but had a slight decrease in air volume.....and a change is not noticeable.
Kinda weird.....I was just at the speed shop and had this conversation today.
Not true at all. Where did you see that "tested"? Not a chat room I hope, we all know that they are full of fact and useful info, LOL :rollside: Comparing gauze to paper is like comparing apples to oranges as they are work under completely different laws of physics. A paper filter has very small holes, once clogged with debris, no longer flow much air. They are what are called "barrier" filters. A gauze filter is called a "depth loading" filter. They are multiple laters of cotton gauze whose openings are crossed hundreds of times by very small fibers which, when treated with oil, are somewhat translucent. Spray WD-40 on paper and you can see right through it is an example of that. As dirt collides and goes around these fibers, it slows down and sticks to the oil droplets. Now, what makes things different is, the holes do not completely clog like a barrier filter. Some oil is wicked off and absorbed by the dirt particle which alows addition dirt to build on top of it, depth loading. Therefore a K&N can hold more dirt than a paper filter before needing servicing while flowing more air. We spent over $1 million on an in house test lab that was designed by the people that test for NASA. Furthermore, we back up our testing by sending to an outside source, Southwest Research in San Antonio (They also do our USCG aprovals). I can guarantee you that we meet 3 goals on every filter produced:
1. Flow as much or more air than the OE filter
2. Meet or exceed the service life of the OE filter
3. Meet or exceed the filtration rating of the OE filter
As for automakers not using K&N for OE, simple. What would a $40 filter as opposed to a $1 filter do to the price of a car? It would add hundreds if not thousands to the price. The GM Ram Jet crate motors come with K&N though. So do Rousch Fords. Every Indy car uses a K&N and so do 9 F1 teams. I have an image at work of the media under an electron microscope and it is eye opening to say the least. So is the test lab and I invite any non-believer to drop by and see me and I'll take them on a tour. You will change your mind.

[INSman]

Not true at all. Where did you see that "tested"? Not a chat room I hope, we all know that they are full of fact and useful info, LOL :rollside: Comparing gauze to paper is like comparing apples to oranges as they are work under completely different laws of physics. A paper filter has very small holes, once clogged with debris, no longer flow much air. They are what are called "barrier" filters. A gauze filter is called a "depth loading" filter. They are multiple laters of cotton gauze whose openings are crossed hundreds of times by very small fibers which, when treated with oil, are somewhat translucent. Spray WD-40 on paper and you can see right through it is an example of that. As dirt collides and goes around these fibers, it slows down and sticks to the oil droplets. Now, what makes things different is, the holes do not completely clog like a barrier filter. Some oil is wicked off and absorbed by the dirt particle which alows addition dirt to build on top of it, depth loading. Therefore a K&N can hold more dirt than a paper filter before needing servicing while flowing more air. We spent over $1 million on an in house test lab that was designed by the people that test for NASA. Furthermore, we back up our testing by sending to an outside source, Southwest Research in San Antonio (They also do our USCG aprovals). I can guarantee you that we meet 3 goals on every filter produced:
1. Flow as much or more air than the OE filter
2. Meet or exceed the service life of the OE filter
3. Meet or exceed the filtration rating of the OE filter
As for automakers not using K&N for OE, simple. What would a $40 filter as opposed to a $1 filter do to the price of a car? It would add hundreds if not thousands to the price. The GM Ram Jet crate motors come with K&N though. So do Rousch Fords. Every Indy car uses a K&N and so do 9 F1 teams. I have an image at work of the media under an electron microscope and it is eye opening to say the least. So is the test lab and I invite any non-believer to drop by and see me and I'll take them on a tour. You will change your mind.
So there we have it ...

[BowTie Rick]

I type a freakin book and all you say is "there we have it" ROTFLMAO :D Personally, the biggest thing for me is 35 years and 20,000,000 filters later says it all. If there were problems with them, none of that could have ever happened. Enough with this, I feel like I am at work!! This place is supposed to take me to the lake and awy from work :cool: Time to eat anyway. Big belly growls, I listen!

[mike37]

I type a freakin book and all you say is "there we have it" ROTFLMAO :D Personally, the biggest thing for me is 35 years and 20,000,000 filters later says it all. If there were problems with them, none of that could have ever happened. Enough with this, I feel like I am at work!! This place is supposed to take me to the lake and awy from work :cool: Time to eat anyway. Big belly growls, I listen!
so do you have the hookup on K&N filters I want one for my 496ho

[BowTie Rick]

If I direct him your way can I get a discount? Don't I get a free keychain or something for every grand I drop with you?

[INSman]

I type a freakin book and all you say is "there we have it" ROTFLMAO :D Personally, the biggest thing for me is 35 years and 20,000,000 filters later says it all. If there were problems with them, none of that could have ever happened. Enough with this, I feel like I am at work!! This place is supposed to take me to the lake and awy from work :cool: Time to eat anyway. Big belly growls, I listen!
Hey, I was in support of everything you said and have added a positive K&N experience. I just figured that you had said all that needed to be said and I had nothing more to add !! :D

[moneypit]

Not true at all. Where did you see that "tested"? Not a chat room I hope, we all know that they are full of fact and useful info, LOL :rollside: Comparing gauze to paper is like comparing apples to oranges as they are work under completely different laws of physics. A paper filter has very small holes, once clogged with debris, no longer flow much air. They are what are called "barrier" filters. A gauze filter is called a "depth loading" filter. They are multiple laters of cotton gauze whose openings are crossed hundreds of times by very small fibers which, when treated with oil, are somewhat translucent. Spray WD-40 on paper and you can see right through it is an example of that. As dirt collides and goes around these fibers, it slows down and sticks to the oil droplets. Now, what makes things different is, the holes do not completely clog like a barrier filter. Some oil is wicked off and absorbed by the dirt particle which alows addition dirt to build on top of it, depth loading. Therefore a K&N can hold more dirt than a paper filter before needing servicing while flowing more air. We spent over $1 million on an in house test lab that was designed by the people that test for NASA. Furthermore, we back up our testing by sending to an outside source, Southwest Research in San Antonio (They also do our USCG aprovals). I can guarantee you that we meet 3 goals on every filter produced:
1. Flow as much or more air than the OE filter
2. Meet or exceed the service life of the OE filter
3. Meet or exceed the filtration rating of the OE filter
As for automakers not using K&N for OE, simple. What would a $40 filter as opposed to a $1 filter do to the price of a car? It would add hundreds if not thousands to the price. The GM Ram Jet crate motors come with K&N though. So do Rousch Fords. Every Indy car uses a K&N and so do 9 F1 teams. I have an image at work of the media under an electron microscope and it is eye opening to say the least. So is the test lab and I invite any non-believer to drop by and see me and I'll take them on a tour. You will change your mind.
Thanks for the post...Much appreciated. At least INSman didnt say "whatever".. I hate that word.. :D :D

[shadow]

ROTFLMAO :D
You guys are still going on about this?I ate dinner went over to Crazy Horse hung some blinds in my trailer and had a couple of beers and came home.
Checked in to see this still going on. :smile:
Whats next Frahm vs Quicksilver :confused: :rollside:
By the way K&N's do look better if nothing else and i'm sure perform as well or better than stock mesh screen. :rollside:
Carry on. :cool:

[moneypit]

ROTFLMAO :D
You guys are still going on about this?I ate dinner went over to Crazy Horse hung some blinds in my trailer and had a couple of beers and came home.
Checked in to see this still going on. :smile:
Whats next Frahm vs Quicksilver :confused: :rollside:
By the way K&N's do look better if nothing else and i'm sure perform as well or better than stock mesh screen. :rollside:
Carry on. :cool:
You suck! Your in havasu. Im in Simi.. my 02. :D :D

[shadow]

You suck! Your in havasu. Im in Simi.. my 02. :D :D
:D someones gotta do it! :D

[25Elmn8r]

Now the one we've got for the 454/502 Mag makes a marked MPH increase but the stock one on those is an under-sized POS.
Just out of curiosity, how much of an increase can one truly expect from changing out to the K&N on the 502?

[INSman]

You can bank on maybe 1 MPH !!!! :D

[25Elmn8r]

You can bank on maybe 1 MPH !!!! :D
Thats pretty much what I figured! But hey, that's 1 mph closer to finally breaking 50! :D :messedup:

[Beer-30]

Sheez. All I did was ask a question.
Thanks for the data Bow Tie!
You can lead a horse to water.......

[Rexone]

Hey Rexone
If I direct him your way can I get a discount? Don't I get a free keychain or something for every grand I drop with you?
No problem on the keychain Rick. :D
I've been to K&N too and seen the flow bench tests. They definately out perform the stock OE paper filters of similar size. Better flow, as good of filtering = best value in my book. Plus you wash, re-oil and never buy another paper filter. (Don't apply this concept to underwear ;) ).
And like Rick says, K&N would not have sold a bizillion of them over 30 years if they did not work, nor would Mercury, Indycars and F1's use em. It's also a mis-conception that the air over a lake or river is "clean"...it ain't.

[phebus]

I have a K&N filter on my 496HO and wanted to test out what it did for performance, so the other day at Havasu, I switched between it and the stock flame arrestor and made several runs up wind and down wind, and averaged the results. All runs were measured on gps. Wit the K&N filter on, I averaged two tenths of a mile slower then with the stock flame arrester. Again, that was with several runs, all averaged out, done one right after another with the same water conditions, temperature, and boat load. The speed loss basically is negligable, and in my opinion is worth it for the increased filtering.

[Beer-30]

Cool Phebus. Thanks for that also. I think the piece of mind is worth even a mph. Even though boats are mostly in a moist atmosphere, there is still dirt present!

[rvrhlic]

I got one just cause they look cooler.... I know nothing about the mechanics of an engine, i think it just looks better.

[Mandelon]

I got one just cause they look cooler.... I know nothing about the mechanics of an engine, i think it just looks better.
Nice. :rolleyes: :D
How much dirt is there to filter out, on the water?

[Beer-30]

Technically, there is just as much as on the road. Ok, so there's not a bunch of tires kicking stuff up around you like on the road. But, there is wind! Sometimes at Havasu and Mojave----alot! You don't think there is flying sand, dirt, lint, feathers, in the wind? You don't think that gets sucked into the vents to the engine box and then into a see-through screen?
How about after storage? The dust that you wipe off of the outside and the seats is still in those vents, waiting for the first "wind" to come through and hand them off to the next vacuum they come across (throttle body).

[rvrhlic]

how do you know when it is time to clean the filter??

[Beer-30]

Well, I doubt it will get black (dirty) like a car/truck. Mine is new this season, will look at the end of season and see how it fairs. Probably two seasons would be about right.

[Rexone]

When the red color (K&N oil color) starts looking darker than red, time to clean and re-oil. Darker than red = dirt.

[Beer-30]

So, I took some pics while changing from the mesh screen to the K&N. For those of you who don't think any crap gets into your engine compartment / engine. Here's some before photos.
The butterfly opens via the bottom swinging outward, toward the front of the boat. The top goes inward. Note the layer of build-up on the bottom of the throttle shaft. I knew some stuff got through, but I will admit, I didn't think it was this much. Imagine how much didn't stick to the throttle blade?
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/503/2433KN1.jpg
The pattern on the wall of the inlet bell is all "dust". You can see the build-up on the shaft here as well.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/503/2433KN2.jpg

[92562]

I have a K&N that was never used since I put a Whipple on the HO. Anyybody need one? In the box new? PM me! ;)

[Beer-30]

I have a K&N that was never used since I put a Whipple on the HO. Anyybody need one? In the box new? PM me! ;)
Aw, real good! Could have used it $64 ago! :yuk:

[rrrr]

You can bank on maybe 1 MPH !!!! :D
I thought that was with through transom exhausts! :p :coffeycup :D

[Beer-30]

I thought that was with through transom exhausts! :p :coffeycup :D
I didn't notice any change in how it ran last weekend. Just peace of mind for the filtering.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I had heard that the K& N flowed better than the mesh screens. Maybe it was an apples/oranges comparison though not based on size. Then again, I had a Holley-sized 3-layer arrestor dating to 1978, I had heard those were fairly restrictive.
With my engine rebuild I went to a K&N as well so I can't do any valid comparisons. I know it is a lot quieter inhaling through that 14" x 3" filter than it was through that tiny 2 1/2" tall screen, what a hissssssss! Besides, I needed a dropped base real bad to reduce the hood-height problems caused by my RPM Air Gap manifold. :cry:
Yes, there is a lot of crap floating arround in the air, nearly as much as a car sees, and yet most boats run arround unfiltered. :confused: :frown: Here in Kansas we have days the sky turns nearly orange as Oklahoma tries to move to Nebraska accross us. :yuk:

[Norseman]

Nice. :rolleyes: :D
How much dirt is there to filter out, on the water?
As much as there is on shore!! :D
Why do you think the air would be any different?? It's blowing in from somewhere else, isn't it????????????????? :cool:

[FILUCKY]

Well in Texas it is a very costly ticket if you run anything other then a flame arrestor, so be greatful you can even have this discution. Ya lucky basturds!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

K&N makes a USCG legal flame arrestor. The only dif from the off-road one is the Stain. Steel plates top & bottom. The regular ones are aluminum (which melt at about 1200 deg in a fire). Tex has to allow anything USCG approved so you can run one if you like. The screening on the element makes it function as a flame arrestor as far as the Coast Guard is concerned.

[FILUCKY]

Thanks, thats good to know. I actually really like K&N filters and run them on all of my vehicles.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Incedentally, I'm running a std 14" off-road Filtercharger due to my need for a drooped base to minimize my clearance troubles with my hood. The USCG ones are ALL flat-based, so 1 5/8" taller. I may one of these days cheat the system a bit by installing the USCG top cover plate, which is the one with USCG markings. Guess I'll just have to stay on the north side of Texoma next month. :D :D

[Rexone]

Incedentally, I'm running a std 14" off-road Filtercharger due to my need for a drooped base to minimize my clearance troubles with my hood. The USCG ones are ALL flat-based, so 1 5/8" taller. I may one of these days cheat the system a bit by installing the USCG top cover plate, which is the one with USCG markings. Guess I'll just have to stay on the north side of Texoma next month. :D :D
If you get inspected without the SAE Marine number stamped on the element itself you will be toast, if the inspector (LE) knows what he's looking at.

[Norseman]

If you get inspected without the SAE Marine number stamped on the element itself you will be toast, if the inspector (LE) knows what he's looking at.
Mike will the element fit??
It looks like I'm going to have a problem getting the aircleaner under the engine cover on the rayson, and it would be nice to use a CG approved aircleaner, or atleast the element in a non approved low profile aircleaner.
I don't want to cut up the engine cover for clearance!!

[BowTie Rick]

Incedentally, I'm running a std 14" off-road Filtercharger due to my need for a drooped base to minimize my clearance troubles with my hood. The USCG ones are ALL flat-based, so 1 5/8" taller. I may one of these days cheat the system a bit by installing the USCG top cover plate, which is the one with USCG markings. Guess I'll just have to stay on the north side of Texoma next month. :D :D
Hell, mines not legal at the moment either... and I work for K&N :rolleyes: I Put on a Vortech supercharger and the damn thing opened up right at the exhaust riser leaving room for a vent filter at best. So, I used a throttle body adapter from the silverado kit attached to a Titan intake tube (cut shorter), added a filter, fabed a support bracket (stainless) and just like that, I have a boat intake kit. Surprisingly it looks real good, almost like it belongs there. I am going to use one of the flame arrestors we are doing for Froggy's boat (Trident) once they are made. Technically, it should be legal then.

[saubouin]

Who the f knows, the only real way to do it is on a dyno and swap filters !!
I saw 5RWHP increase on back to back dyno pulls with paper filter then with K&N. I'd have to check to see if I still have the dyno sheet somwhere.
BTW, this was on a car with LS1 motor. Every little bit of hp counts :)