Lice legislation

[riverlover]

Hey guys I found this PWC stuff at http://www.riverlakes.com/pwc_legislation_alert.htm . So there is a ruling, now what? Apparently the author never had any run-ins with lice nor has he been to Perris. I almost got T-boned a few weeks back. Luckily the litte puke missed me by inches, which resulted in 5 gallons of water spray in the boat. Unfortunately, I was with the wife and kids and dipsh!t was with 20 other drunk hoodlums. If I had the M-60 machine gun I used in the Army that jack-off woulda never got that close. I don't need legislation, I need an M-60 or 50 cal. Where is Monkey when you need him to throw poop?
CALIFORNIA RULING
On May 14, 2001 the California State Assembly passed a bill allowing California cities to discriminate and ban use of PWC at will. You should know that the following California State assembly members voted to PASS assembly bill AB759. Read it and get as mad as us.
If you recognize these state assembly members to be in your district, please write them today using the links below, and let them know how you feel about their questionable ethics to discriminate based on boat hull style, no different than by color of skin. Make sure to remember what they did when you vote next time. This is absolutely a disgrace to notion of equality.
California Assembly members that voted for bill, AB759
JOHN Dutra
MARCO Firebaugh
CHRISTINE Kehoe
CAROL Liu
JOHN Longville
GEORGE Nakano
JENNY Oropeza
JOSEPH Simitian
VIRGINIA Strom-Martin
JUAN Vargas
Now don't assume I endorse crazy PWC behavior, racing around too close to fisherman, shorelines, birds, or wind surfers. I endorse strict enforcement to cite such unacceptable behavior. This is a case where a small percentage of inconsiderate PWC owners have stereo-typed the normal majority. The problem is PWC popularity has grown so fast our governments haven't funded enough money to regulate with rangers to enforce acceptable behavior. Instead the politicians have taken the easy way out (either because they're lazy, ignorant, or environmentally biased) and used this issue to justify in their minds to ban usage of PWC. The disgraceful part is they have ignored the impact that PWC bans do to family values, vacations, and the economy.
These politicians apparently don't realize the family value of weekend camping a the lake with kids skiing, tubing, and kneeboarding behind larger PWC. They apparently don't care about the fact that banning quality time as a family unit, camping with water activities is important in today's busy lifestyles. No, they just want to take the easy way out and wipe out the ability for families to "pursue happiness", something our forefathers guaranteed all US citizens. This guarantee is being compromised and nobody seems to care.
PWC BANNED IN NATIONAL PARKS
On April 20, 2001 the US federal government announced the banning of PWC in many national parks. Read the details, then write your congressman. If you don't help us by writing, PWC operation will allowed only at the worse lakes and locations, overcrowded and unsafe due to massive numbers. Please write today, tell your senator what you think.
[This message has been edited by riverlover (edited August 24, 2001).]

[Heatseeker]

It's too bad more places don't use the legislation to OUTLAW those little pieces of dung.
Just yesterday at Don Pedro, I was drifting with a couple of other boats about 150 yards off the back of our houseboat, in a cove all by ourselves. Here comes 'jetski man' to show off his cool rented jetski. He looped around between our boats(not 15 yards from us) and the houseboat.This jerk sees us scrambling to keep from beating into each other as he comes around and just grins as he speeds off...
It's too bad my 9mm was on the houseboat, a little hull ventilation would have been the perfect remedy...
I say outlaw them all now and avoid the rush(and bloodshed since more accidental deaths occur with pwcs involved).

[fryzll]

Hey riverlover, this is a prime example of why we need to get the Energizer kit for our Jacuzzi's, so we can bolt on a PWC operator removal tool on the back of the pump http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif. It is really scary to think that joe blow dumb f**k can go down to the local Kawi dealer and buy a new Ultra 150 that does 70 MPH and take it straight to the lake (after a stop at the liquor store) and try operating the thing. I dont know how many times ive been trying to get up river only to have 4 of these things clog up the whole river with no regard to the people behind them and then either STOP, or whip a 180 right in front of me http://free.***boat.net/ubb/mad.gif. Dont get me wrong, there is just allot of bad PWC operators out there giving the few good ones a bad rap. Just my 2 cents.
Chris

[old rigger]

You guys know that they already banned those little communist bastards at Lake Tahoe don't you. They couldn't attack them as a group so they banned ALL two-stroke motors from the lake. "Keep Tahoe Blue" is their slogan. You can use only an older 3hp OB or smaller, or the new smart motors with a computer. (I think this is the ruling)
The new PWC's are starting to creep back in on the lake but are not there in nearly the same numbers as before.
I hit a 9 year old girl at Parker down by the toolies near Bluewater in 1982. She was all by herself and had started out at River's Lodge, what's that, 9 miles up river. It was a Fuc%ed up deal and I have hated those little pieces of $hit ever since.

[lakecrazy]

Lake lice know better than to get behind my boat to jump the wake. Not one of them wants to take a place diverter shower. Kinda feels like riding your motorcycle in the rain but worse!

[Heatseeker]

After years of close calls,I finally used the pwc operator removal tool last year! Kid's dad came at me for it. I told 'dad' to teach his kid some water rules and a little common sense(which this kid had neither).
I was glad when Tahoe outlawed the little pests. I don't even boat there(except for the Tahoe Queen cruise once http://free.***boat.net/ubb/frown.gif), but at least there is somewhere they aren't.Like I said before, it's too bad that more places don't use this law.

[beached1]

Wow riverlover, you got balls man. I would think the forum administrator would kick you off this site for supporting PWC. I have been involved with riding and racing stand ups for many years and also own a real jet boat. I believe that PWC's have every right to be on a lake as anyone else. I do believe however that Rental PWC's should be banned. Statistics prove that most accidents are caused by first timers on rentals. One thing to think about, if we let politicians ban PWC, then other power boats will be the next target. Don't believe me? Just look at any other off road motor sport. See your riding area srinking? If you check out http://www.ijsba.com look under government affairs and you'll see the latest stuff going on in your state. BTW, the ban on PWC's in Lake Tahoe was recently lifted.

[old rigger]

Beached 1,
As I under stand the law at Tahoe, only the new, clean burning PWC's are allowed on the lake, along with, like I said, the new smart outboards. You can't get on the lake with an old PWC. The ban wasn't lifted, only modifed to let the latest version of these water hazards back on the water.
Why ban the rentals? What's the difference between them and some pin head on the water for the first time on his new PWC and can't come to terms with the fact that there are rules that should be followed. Forget the rules that are goverened by law, but common sense rules that I'm afraid most PWC riders lack.
After I hit that little girl , I gave those riders a wide berth, keeping an eye on them while they have their head up their A$$, waiting for them to turn in front of me without looking, or worse turning back to jump my wake while I have a skier in tow. (ever hear about the jet skier that did this down at golden shores in Long Beach, only to become decapited when he ran into the ski rope and sliced his head off? The poster boy for Jet skiers) I don't give them the benefit of doubt anymore, and haven't for a long time. Screw 'em. I don't turn an inch. If they want to turn in front of me, let them. I'm gonna win EVERY time.

[Rat Raft]

I beleive it was Mike W. That had one run into the side of his Liberator a couple of years back. The Liberator was damaged and the water flea sank. One less to worry about but I sure hated to hear about a nearly new boat geting damaged.

[Bubbledeck2]

I used to own and ride a stand up back when that's all there was .. yeah, I'm even older than that relic, old rigger heh.
I'd like to think I was a safe rider and I know the guys I rode with were safe riders, but even back in the early 80s morons were beginning to infiltrate the PWC ranks.
We have a real problem now with PWCs and I don't have a realistic answer as how to fix it. Actually I think the problem lies with the rider, not the PWC itself. Maybe the "fix" needs to go in that direction. Licensing, stricter law enforcement, and maybe limiting hot dog riding to certain areas may all be possibilities.
Boatcop what are your thoughts? Anything coming down the rumor pipe about PWC restrictions of any kind?

[beached1]

Old Rigger's right,
They won't allow the old smokers on the lake but the newer ones with DFI are OK. Honda, Yam, and Sea Poop all have come out with new big sitdown 4 stroke thumper models. So look out. I personally hate sitdowns. They ruined racing. They are the cause of most accidents. I mentioned first timers on rentals because that's where you get most people who want their money's worth. Most accidents happen on PWC's where the rider is not the owner of the ski. This is why I came to the conclusion that if they banned rentals, it should dramaticaly reduce accidents. I still enjoy riding my Yami therefore, I will still support the PWC'ers right to ride. I do agree however that there should be more regulation such as a special licence to ride one or something like that. As I spend more time (and $$$) on my boat and less on my ski lately, and the more times I get cut off by a PWC, I'm finding it harder and harder to stick up for them. I've even thought about naming my boat "Sea Don't" http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif So, I can understand some your frustrations. Just try to remeber that we aren't all bad. OK, at least the stand up riders anyway http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif

[beached1]

I got this from the IJSBA web site. Look out, here they come.
Despite protests to the contrary by exclusionists like Steve Wynn, TRPA found that Lake Tahoe’s water clarity problems were due to runoff from residences and new development in the region, not to recreational boating.
TRPA did, though, develop emissions regulations that affect all motorboats on the lake, not just personal watercraft. The rule adopted at Lake Tahoe for all motorboats requires that their engines comply with the Environmental Protection Agency’s 2006 emission standards, which calls for a 75 percent reduction in marine engine emissions.
Fortunately, the manufacturers of personal watercraft responded with some of the cleanest and quietest boats in the world. Today, there are more than 20 models of personal watercraft that are allowed on the lake. Bombardier’s Challenger 2000 and Utopia 185 jet boats are also “Tahoe Legal” and being enjoyed on the lake.

[GN2RVER]

Wonder if the little pests have been banned from Lake Mohave? Thought it was a National Park.

[old rigger]

Bubble 2,
I think you hit on something that rings true. When these Pwc's were first introduced the people riding them were already boat guys and grew up with BOATS and knew the proper way of using the water and looking out for the other guy. Do I mean all boaters have their $hit together and are model examples of how to act. No friggin' way. I'm not to proud of some of the crap I did when I was a kid. But this PWC thing has change the whole face of boating and I don't think there is an easy fix. These guys, and maybe I'm looking to close for it too, don't seem to give a $hit about any body else on the water but themselves. Yeah, I know that there are people out there that know how to ride them responsibly, but I honestly think they are the minority. You guys are all right, the problem lies with the riders not the machine.( hell those little thing haul ass, and I've seen them embaress guite a few boaters!) don't know what the answer is to making everybody happy.
I was at a little lake behind Arryo Grande (sp?) called lake lopez. A little thing, but they had the lake divided into 2 sections, one for boaters and one for them. Worked ok, but sure cut down on the area you could enjoy.
Beached 1,
you are absolutey right about TRPA. I know a few Hot Rod guys up in Tahoe too and they all hate them. Call them the Nazi birgade. They rule everything there, you can't even put up a little storage shed on your property without gaining their premission and if you have to much of your land already coverd, you will not recieve their OK. But yet it's ok for them to grant permission to the developers to graze the entire old downtown area, with all the cool old buildings and put up all new shoping places. Good idea, let's make it look like Fuc%in Orange County.
[This message has been edited by old rigger (edited August 25, 2001).]

[riverlover]

Let me just begin by stating I am not defending lice by any stretch of the imagination. I just happened to find the acticle on another site. The writer was whining like a bitch about how we should help out and stop this type if legislation. I say f'em all. Sorry beached1 but a great deal of outta control snapperheads are killing people or sinking other boat$. There are responsible PWC riders out there, they're just getting harder to find. Most riders buy a couple of way overpowered PWC's, hook'em up to the Hondda CRX, pick up some wine coolers and budweiser and head out to the water to "own the lake". They think these things are toys (literaly). They feel light, powerfull, and easy to manuver. Until it gets away from them and they panic. Then some real boater gets t-boned and his mega$$$$$ dream goes to the bottom of the lake. I think the problems with PWC are: too powerfull for their size, lack of off the throtle control, lack of licensing and training. I'll bet if a PWC manufacture gets sued because someone got killed due to their product (like gun munufactures are being sued) we might see some dealer/consumer training that might help.
Old Rigger said it right. I grew up at the river when these PWC did not exist and you learned how to be a responsible boater. That doesn't exist much anymore. A good example happened right before my eyes last year at the river. A guy I know bought 2 new PWCs. They, admittedly, are nice, fast, and fun. Well from about 40' from shore I cut a hard turn and shot a semi rooster toward my wife and kids. They all got wet and had a good laugh. Totally safe at that distance. A short time later this guy I know tries the same thing except, he is way, way too close to shore. He cuts hard and nearly drowns his family and mine. But the scary part is, his oldest daughter was in the way. She was standing approx 10' off shore and as he made that hard turn the ass end of the seadoo went right over her head when the front end perled. It was the luckiest and scariest thing I'd seen on the water. I haven't boated with him since. I probably never will.
Just so ya know, I am sure responsible PWC riders are out there. They're just hard to find.
RL

[beached1]

I agree with most of what you said. If we could get all PWC'ers to see this point of view, maybe you all wouldn't hate us so much.

[058]

I have had more than my share of run-ins with lake lice too but banning them isn't the answer. Ban them and its just a matter of time before they come after us. More than a few lakes would like to see our types of boats banned also. I favor the restricted areas for them such as swimming areas for swimmers only. Old rigger hit on something I never thought of, when they first came out it was boaters that bought them, now any brain dead little twerp can own one and don't have a clue about laws and common courtisey [sp] They are with out doubt the most inconsiderate pieces of dung that ever made a hole in the water.

[Old Charger]

Here's a couple of thoughts that have been brewin in my noggin about this whole thing.
As the skis get older, the prices of used ones come down and so does the level of quality people who can purchase them...
FACT: REAL boats are REAL machines. Jetskis are TOYS. Think about it. Thats part of the reason why boater who bought skis way back in the day, had proper respect. When you pilot a boat you get the feeling its an actual VESSEL. Its big, has real motor, a steering wheel...yadda yadda. Makes you feel like you're in control of a real machine, like a car. Jetskis are so light, and are like ATVs of the water. Plus, there such an air of, "Oh don't worry, its just a jetski. It can't hurt ya! Anyone can ride 'em. You can do any on these things!" Instead of air of responsiblity.
The point is (besides the one on my head), ANY YAHOO can buy a jetski and obviously does. If you asked Capt. Yahoo off the street to spend his 8-10 G's on either a real boat or a jetski, its gonna be a jetski. Because its easier. Jetskis appeal to the masses. And as your total amount of people buying skis over boat increses, so does your yahoo and f*@knut percentage.
I loved my jetski. 93 JS550. Rode it almost everyday during the summer in Texas. Just sold it though, never rode it since I moved back here to Cali. Plus I bought the boat. The guy offered me 950, I wanted 1000. But after him listening to me rant about how to be a careful jetskier and to not be one of these dumbass @$$holes, I took his 950 and his promise to be one of the good guys.
"PLINK PLINK".. hey look...2 cents..... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif

[mister460]

Yeah, I totally agree with you guys! And while we're at it we need to ban all guns cause they kill people. The manufacturers too! Cause y'know, it's their fault that Joe Blow robbed that bank. Oh, and knives and sharp rocks hurt people. It's inherent in their design. So we definitely need to ban those. Fists, feet, baseball bats, and hot coffee. All evil by design. GET REAL GUYS!!!!! You can't, I repeat CAN'T just ban something like that. Yes there are idiots that hop on these skis and hurt people. There will always be stupid people in this world. Accept that and the fact that taking their "toys" away from them isn't gonna do a damn thing! IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!! And how can you bitch about "as the price goes down, so does the quality of the owner?" That's very ignorant, no offense intended. I'm a US Marine and I get paid squat. So do most of my fellow Marines. I consider myself to be a decent person. I work hard, party hard, but I use my head. I bought my boat for $2500. Basically what I and every one of you have now is a 19' big block powered JETSKI!!!! So I must not be a very "quality" person because I got my boat cheap. C'mon, think a little first. Now I definitely agree that there's idiots out there on jetskis that injure and kill people. I'm not arguing that point. But they're not doing it BECAUSE of the jetski. Just WITH a 'ski! Are skis fun? Very! Do people get hurt/killed by/on them? Of course they do. Should we ban them? Only if you're gonna start banning everything with a sharp edge, hot surface, or anything with inherent danger. Well, I don't know about y'all but I abhor the thought of having to live in a "padded" society. Think about the situation a little bit first instead of being a reactionist. Then think when was the last time you did something stupid. High school? College? First job? Last week? It's probably the latter. The point I'm trying to make in this EXTREMELY long post is this: We all do stupid shit(some more than other) so we ALL need to smarten up a bit. Also, don't EVER condemn something because the user is a moron. Believe or not, there are those that say the same stuff about all of use because we have loud, overpowered, too fast, dangerous boats. But we think we're better 'cause we paid more for them? Come back to reality folks. Sorry for the rant and rave but I just KNOW that NONE of want a "padded" society. Think about it then let me know what you think. Have a good one all!

[riverlover]

Mister460, personally I wouldn't want a ban on PWC's either. I hate the fact that the government already takes away half the freedom I believe I deserve. However, my point is, that licensing, madatory boating classes, and stiff penalties may help. It's a matter of responsibility. A great deal of PWC owners lack the responsibilty. To say that it's ignorant to assume that as the price of the boat goes down, so does the quality of the owner. I think that is a broad statement. Certainly you are not a poor quality boater because you can't afford much or you searched out a great deal. I too, do not make the big bucks but I think I got a decent deal. Generally, however, I would agree with that statement.
But that's just my perspective and opinion. Thank god I can still have one of those.
BTW, I didn't think Marines were paid to use their heads? haha Just bustin your balls. I'm a former Army Sergeant. Sempra Fi bro.

[Old Charger]

The price vs. quality of buyer statement was (as riverlover stated) meant to be a very broad statement. If it were meant to be specific, than I'd have to include myself since I picked up my ride for only $3000. And if you ask RiverDave or Hustler, they'll verify, it ain't much to look at!
So, let me rephrase my point. The more the price goes down on the older toys, the larger the spectrum and number of people who can afford them goes up. Thus, (as in everything) your dumbass percentage rises.
Now, I understand that everybody does something stupid at sometime in their life. I just dont think that being on the water in control of small, water skipping torpedo is the right place to be when you do. Granted, no one knows all the ins and outs of anything the very first time they try something. But, how much common sense does it take to know not to do some of the f'ed up stuff that goes on out there?
I LOOOOOVE jet skis. I think they're are a BLAST. I just can't stand the new breed of people out there riding them. Thats my OPINION and I'm stickin to it... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Old Charger (edited August 29, 2001).]

[riverlover]

Found this and thought it was appropriate http://www.logophilia.com/WordSpy/zipperhead.html

[beached1]

Old Charger, Mister 460, You both have a point. BTW 460, I must say it's pretty cool to see a fellow boater who sticks up for the rights of people who choose to have fun on vessels different that yours. Old Chrger, yes there are a lot of dumb people on PWC's, which needs to be addressed. A special license or required safety course wouldn't bother me. I just hate it when someone tries to sterotype us. The idiots stand out in your memory because he/she did something to piss you off. Are you going to remeber that guy on the ski that pulled over when you made a speed run? Probably not. All I want to say is that we are not all "pieces of dung". Some of us ride responsibly and some of us love and own Big blocks w/big jets too. Banning them is not he answer, education on how to use them is. Better yet, how about a simple IQ test for anyone who wants to operate anything with a motor in it. fail the test, take the bus shorty. My $.02. OK I think I'm up to about a $1.20 by now.
http://www.ijsba.com/images/jetsports/2001_sept/rb07.jpg

[Old Charger]

Banning PWCs is definately not the answer. Not only would that give a foot hold for all the tree huggin' radicals, but I would hate to think about any legislation that would take away anyones right to be on the lake.
I totally agree with beached. Its always the zipperheads that stick out in yer memory. But I dont think that this majority of people should ruin it for all the cool guys. But, thats sort of the problem right now though. The majority of PWC riders are the guys stirring up problems. The minority are all the guys with a head on their shoulders. There needs to be a turn around in the numbers. Education and licensing? Absolutely. Even if it meant I had to get a license for my own jet boat. There was an issue about the funds of licensing and how its just another way for the man to dip into yer pockets on another thread. Well shoot, I'll pay my 10-20 bucks just to keep a dumbass of the water!
Banning? SURE... But, don't ban the PWC, ban all the damn zipperheads!
[This message has been edited by Old Charger (edited September 02, 2001).]

[jroos]

One major problem here in LA is that parents let kids ride 1200cc pwc. Sorta like the problem in the 80`s with 3 wheelers. Second are yo-yo`s that buy a wet bike and its a sit down. They have 0 phycical ability and the only thing they can do is jump a boat wake head on. Sorta like guys who bought 3 wheelers and now 4 wheelers. They are too afraid to do it on 2 wheels (PERIOD). I love jet ski`s. The place to ride them is at the beach with high surf. Anything else on one is boring. And riverlover, I like the 60 idea, but a 50 cal is outa da question. Remember the Geneva Convention? 50 cal and larger can only be used to destroy equipment not people at least not yet `cause its peacetime. At time of war, like TOP use to tell me, " Son, is that soldier wearing a canteen, then destroy that equipment". Oh, wasn`t live fire great!