HBM Rules!

[LVjetboy]

Just wanted to thank mngmt and staff for another great issue of Hot Boat Magazine...May 2005.
Mike's Open Letter, very cool. Tech letter responses well-written and detailed, including Jet Tech. Tech articles, reader and featured rides, special performance section...very nice and exactly what keeps my interest. Is it just me or is this magazine on a roll?
jer

[Floored]

It is nice they are remembering the actual Hot Boaters again and not just the 80-250k boaters. I have nothing against the big boats but they aren't my cup of tea. I also understand the advertising dollars pay the bills. Look at Hot Rod mag or Car Craft and there are still Chevelles,Mustangs, and 'Cudas being used for articles, some with modern updating to them. We are a small niche group,and they (Mike) are trying to fit us in and still make the magazine work. Love tech articles and budget improvements. HBM is getting better and I'm buying it now that I can relate to more of the content.

[BK]

OOOPs, double posts'

[Squirtin Thunder]

I will probably Butcher this but here it goes !!!!
I think we all owe Mike Finagan (Cyclone) a big thank you for doing his part in bringing the Hot Boats back to the Magazine. His articals are well writen and objective and well rounded. His youth and enthuseasm show in every artical. He has even done some on O/Bs. This kid has all my suport.
Mike if there is ever anything I can do for you, just ask !!!
Thank you
Jim

[BK]

You guys are making me want to supscribe again for the first time since cancelling 5 years ago! Guess I should think about it since theres no where to get the mag up here.

[PC Rat]

You guys are making me want to supscribe again for the first time since cancelling 5 years ago!
I did just that.

[superdave013]

I will probably Butcher this but here it goes !!!!
Mike if there is ever anything I can do for you, just ask !!!
Thank you
Jim
Dood, what if he wants a hummer? :crossx:
I agree Mike is doing a kick ass job. The open letter is classic.

[PLACECRAFT20]

I dont normally post on this stuff but, I agree he has turned the magazine into a great piece of hot rod material.
THANKS CYCLONE

[roostwear]

Somebody scan and post it for the the HVPT (***boat Victims of Postal Theft)!

[Heatseeker]

I've posted it before, Hot Boat magazine is back!!!
Mike has brought a new perspective to the old mag. I just hope the rest of the staff is enthusiastic about the new direction the mag is taking.
Good job Mike!

[riverbound]

I talked to someone from HBM @ the LA boat show and this guy was an
a-hole. I was complimenting him on the changes to the mag. and he said that they were just doing it as a test and it would most likely be cancelled becasue thats not where the ad $$$ came from. He told me "most of these mfgs. are not even in business anymore so why would we showcase there boats?" After he just finished talking about the ad $$$. He made some references about $5k boats versus the $100k boats. after that I walked away and did not renew.
BTW the reason I stoppped by the booth was to renew my subscription.

[Brooski]

You guys are making me want to supscribe again for the first time since cancelling 5 years ago! Guess I should think about it since theres no where to get the mag up here.
I just did that too. Best decision I have made. Great stuff. Kudo's to Mike for helping with the turnaround. Can we get some Maxim models in it now? :cool:

[LVjetboy]

:devil: "...he said that they were just doing it as a test and it would most likely be cancelled becasue that's not where the ad $$$ came from."
Did you get his name? Maybe he doesn't have a clue. Maybe one of the pro hot yacht crowd resenting recent back-to-roots improvement in Hot Boat format. So he thinks the tech articles and added Hot Boat content are a waste of resource?
Test my a**! Mike, is that true?
If that's all it is then my subscription's a test. BTW, there's another magazine out there and they had better photo coverage of Jessie James's trailer. I wasn't going to say anything but that magazine's a contender. Just a test? That p*sses me off. Go ahead and suck up to yacht builders and see where your readers go. I'll post a link to the "Other Magazine"
:devil:
jer

[roostwear]

If you know of another "contender" in this market segment, spill it, 'cuz my advertising dollars go where the support for low freeboard boats is.

[old rigger]

I've heard through the grapevine that Mike has left Hot Boat and gone back to Truckin?
Is this true?????
I haven't seen the latest issue, but I saw the April copy at my barbers today, pretty good.

[Jake W2]

You sure its not MiniTruckin.I say ,Mike do what Courtney Holowell Mike Self and ect did and take a chance on you own mag look how good Street trucks did who ever thought they could compete with Truckin.
River Rod was it, bitchen concept.I will subcribe and dont give a F how much it cost a year.
Jake

[Squirtcha?]

:devil: "...he said that they were just doing it as a test and it would most likely be cancelled becasue that's not where the ad $$$ came from."jer
That would really suck..........if true. I'd wager that most the guys with the yachts still like seeing a well setup low profile. I'm bettin that if polled they don't mind us getting our little section of the mag. A good many of those guys got their start with boats like ours anyway.

[bakerjet]

That would really suck..........if true. I'd wager that most the guys with the yachts still like seeing a well setup low profile. I'm bettin that if polled they don't mind us getting our little section of the mag. A good many of those guys got their start with boats like ours anyway.
yep! yep!

[roostwear]

I made this up a couple years ago as a "motivator".... if Mike goes for it, they will come.
http://www.roostwear.com/email/RR2.jpg

[riverbound]

:devil: "...he said that they were just doing it as a test and it would most likely be cancelled becasue that's not where the ad $$$ came from."
Did you get his name? Maybe he doesn't have a clue. Maybe one of the pro hot yacht crowd resenting recent back-to-roots improvement in Hot Boat format. So he thinks the tech articles and added Hot Boat content are a waste of resource?
Test my a**! Mike, is that true?
If that's all it is then my subscription's a test. BTW, there's another magazine out there and they had better photo coverage of Jessie James's trailer. I wasn't going to say anything but that magazine's a contender. Just a test? That p*sses me off. Go ahead and suck up to yacht builders and see where your readers go. I'll post a link to the "Other Magazine"
:devil:
jer
No I did not get a name, I was so disgusted that I just walked away. I had just picked up a CP catalog and was getting ready to order a couple thousdand dollars worth of parts. for my $5k POS boat. its funny how soemone with such a little worthless boat will spend money with the HBM advertisers. Ask GS Marine how much I have spent there over the years, I found them in the back of HBM and liked what I saw when I went down there.

[Squirtin Thunder]

If what has been said is true, Mike (roostwear) you got my vote !!!

[Squirtin Thunder]

No I did not get a name, I was so disgusted that I just walked away. I had just picked up a CP catalog and was getting ready to order a couple thousdand dollars worth of parts. for my $5k POS boat. its funny how soemone with such a little worthless boat will spend money with the HBM advertisers. Ask GS Marine how much I have spent there over the years, I found them in the back of HBM and liked what I saw when I went down there.
You actually read the adds ???
None of the real hot boat guys ever read the adds in the back and we also don't spend any money on our boats because they are all 50yrs old and it is just not good sence to do so !!!
BTW - I spent about $6K on mine in the last year !!!

[Squirtin Thunder]

Dood, what if he wants a hummer? :crossx:
I agree Mike is doing a kick ass job. The open letter is classic.
It sounds like I will have to hook him up with Chad and Rod Hall of team Hummer in Vegas (BITD) !!! They Have H1s and H2s there along with many other GM trucks at the dealership !!!
Jim

[Jake W2]

Huugh, Jim I do not think that is the kind of HUMMER Super D was talking about :notam:
Jake

[DaveA]

Uh...ahem....
***boat has a magazine?? :idea:
Interesting concept. Made outa paper & everything? :D
.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Huugh, Jim I do not think that is the kind of HUMMER Super D was talking about :notam:
Jake
Then Dave can take care of that himself or employ Kim Hanson !!!!

[steelcomp]

Uh...ahem....
***boat has a magazine?? :idea:
Interesting concept. Made outa paper & everything? :D
.No, don't be fooled. It's just a rumor...what they call a magazine is really colored toilet paper. :cool:

[Danhercules]

HBM...... Ya put your weed in it.

[DaveA]

No, don't be fooled. It's just a rumor...what they call a magazine is really colored toilet paper. :cool:
LOL!
:D :D :D
.

[LVjetboy]

"No, don't be fooled. It's just a rumor...what they call a magazine is really colored toilet paper."
Steelcomp...seriously, HBM is the best magazine we have so far addressing our interests at least on the surface. And they certainly HAVE changed big time to accomodate our passion...getting back to what most consider our roots.
For that I give credit!
For that I give credit! HBM is the best Hot Boat magazine so far.
I say that based on my subscription to HBM back to when Jac Sea did Jet Tech. You wanna know how far back? Did you subscribe then? Back then HBM was a true small hot boat mag over time slowly transitioned to hot yacht chasing the big $$. I'm not sure how long if ever you've subscribed to HBM. But I can tell you, this recent change in focus is huge and well worth support.
Even more I give Mike credit for stepping up. For a magazine of this scale, that's a huge thing.
"If you know of another "contender" in this market segment, spill it, 'cuz my advertising dollars go where the support for low freeboard boats is."
Yes I do. More to follow...
jer

[bp]

steelcomp and i were talkin' about this way into the night on the trip back from phoenix, which reminds me, big thanks to steelcomp for helpin' me out at phoenix last weekend. long nights, long days, low pay, bad food, etc... but had a good time and learned a few more things. :D
i dunno jer. i agree and have told mike that he's done a great job with hbm, and i think there are many other things that can be done. but i look back at my old subscription copies from 17-20 years ago, and i'm not as impressed with the tech articles as you seem to be. there were some attempts to do some good stuff, maybe they just ran out of space or somethng, but in some cases, re-reading them gives me the feeling that they just didn't have the time or resources to really do the research necessary for the topical area. in retrospect, some of the conclusions were not entirely accurate, but being fair, 20 years ago the information probably wasn't as readily available.
there may be a 5k boat out there, but it's probably laying dormant in a field somewhere waiting for somebody to restore it.
great issue this time.. keep it up!

[steelcomp]

Steelcomp...seriously, HBM is the best magazine we have so far addressing our interests at least on the surface. And they certainly HAVE changed big time to accomodate our passion...getting back to what most consider our roots.
"At least on the surface" about surmizes my feelings about the mag. I'm glad it appeals to you, Jer. That's cool. To each his own. I appreciate the effort you and others have put into trying to bring the mag back to it's roots, but for me, it's a waste of time and money. It'll take a lot more than a few decent articles for me to ever buy a subscription. I think it's a rag. I think it's poorly put together, the (jet, v-drive, outboard, etc.) tech section is a joke, barely answering a question, but always putting in a plug for some kind of sales, and the "bone" they're throwing true hot boaters with their "Special Performance Section" just dosen't cut it for me.
Admittedly, I have a little personal grudge after their little "miss print" (for which I doubt there was ever a correction for, or apology), but typical of any magazine for the "enthusiast", it's full of missprints, technical inaccuracies, and poor editing. I never did have a subscription, but I've been reading the mag for years. I remember when it was a Hot Boat magazine. I just used to love looking at the pics, and read about the racing, but after years of reading the CRAP that other mags like HotRod, CarCraft, etc. put out, I figured it wasn't any better. I was right. It's just another magazine, doing what magazine companies want them to do, and that's selling magazines. It's all about sales. Big pictures, sexy models, bling bling, and advertizing. The accuracy of the contents is secondary, and the reality of the "regular guy" relating to a $250K Fountain is ludicrous.

[steelcomp]

steelcomp and i were talkin' about this way into the night on the trip back from phoenix, which reminds me, big thanks to steelcomp for helpin' me out at phoenix last weekend. long nights, long days, low pay, bad food, etc... but had a good time and learned a few more things. :D
i dunno jer. i agree and have told mike that he's done a great job with hbm, and i think there are many other things that can be done. but i look back at my old subscription copies from 17-20 years ago, and i'm not as impressed with the tech articles as you seem to be. there were some attempts to do some good stuff, maybe they just ran out of space or somethng, but in some cases, re-reading them gives me the feeling that they just didn't have the time or resources to really do the research necessary for the topical area. in retrospect, some of the conclusions were not entirely accurate, but being fair, 20 years ago the information probably wasn't as readily available.
there may be a 5k boat out there, but it's probably laying dormant in a field somewhere waiting for somebody to restore it.
great issue this time.. keep it up!
I had a great time, bp. It was a great experience...first time at Firebird. Got to meet a few board members, and we did manage to solve a few bugs. Yeah, we had some long hours, but good company...good times. Thanks for the invite. BTW...heard congrats are in order for this last weekend. Back to your old tricks, I see! :D
Before I get too carried away with jammin HBM...I have to admit, I haven't read a copy lately. I just might pick up a copy to see these changes I'm hearing about...but I'm sceptical. :cool:

[Squirtcha?]

So Scott.................is there any such thing as a "good magazine" in your eyes?
Just curious. :cry:
Playboy doesn't count.

[steelcomp]

So Scott.................is there any such thing as a "good magazine" in your eyes?
Just curious. :cry:
Playboy doesn't count.
That depends what the mag was written for....there's tons of good mags out there, but this mag, and others like it...not for much more than entertainment. They should have that written across the cover..."For entertainment purposes only"
I've been reading Hot Rod, Car Craft, Hot Roding, etc. for nearly 30 yrs. I wasn't really int boats then, but I remember Hot Boat from back then, too. As I learned more and more about what I was doing, I started seeing the, and yes, I'll use the word, CRAP that was printed, time after time, again and again, in the name of a "technical article". I can't even begin to count the times I've wnated to write a letter to the editor because of what I saw, there in black and white, supposedly being written to enlighten or teach some poor sap who dosen't know the difference. SO many misprints. SO many inaccuracies, and SO much plain ol' BS. And it still goes on. The articles get more and more technical as the industry does...just to speak the language, but the same kind of attention to detail, or the lack there of, still continues.
Mags like Road and Track, Auto Week or Car and Driver, that seem to not have an "agenda" to push, to me are good mags. Good articles. Well written, professionally done. Big difference.

[cyclone]

I'll bet that Car and Driver message board sure is a hoot.

[steelcomp]

I'll bet that Car and Driver message board sure is a hoot.
What's that got to do with the mag??

[Squirtcha?]

Mags like Road and Track, Auto Week or Car and Driver, that seem to not have an "agenda" to push, to me are good mags.
Scott..............they all have an agenda. It's to make money. Don't kid yourself about that. None of those mags are out there as purely a service to their readers. Maybe they're just a little bit more deceitful and sly about it, but they're pumping the products.

[steelcomp]

Scott..............they all have an agenda. It's to make money. Don't kid yourself about that. None of those mags are out there as purely a service to their readers. Maybe they're just a little bit more deceitful and sly about it, but they're pumping the products.
My point, 'zactly. Some better than others, but you hit the nail on the head, AFAIC. :cool:

[Jeanyus]

I had a great time, bp. It was a great experience...first time at Firebird. Got to meet a few board members, and we did manage to solve a few bugs. Yeah, we had some long hours, but good company...good times. Thanks for the invite. BTW...heard congrats are in order for this last weekend. Back to your old tricks, I see! :D
Before I get too carried away with jammin HBM...I have to admit, I haven't read a copy lately. I just might pick up a copy to see these changes I'm hearing about...but I'm sceptical. :cool:
Good luck on picking up a copy, I gave up trying to find ***boat at places that sell magazines. Does ***boat really have a magazine ?

[flat broke]

First off, Good job Mike on influencing a change in the content of the magazine. The aftermarket accessory companies like Dana, Rex, Eddie, etc. should be allll over the "little" boat guys, cause these are the guys that will forego a good lunch all week long to buck up for more billet for their "little 5k boat".
Now that asside, Steelcomp is right, the mag as a whole is rife with inconclusive tests, erroneous information, and an overall feel that it's just a group of guys that go out and play with boats. I don't have any coppies here at work, but in the performance evaluations, there were pictures of the wrong boats with the text, some models were cited as twin engine deals when they were singles or vice versa. If I was the guy writing the advertising check for the boat companies who had the incorrect information conveyed, I'd be livid. I think the best attempt at an acctual test I have seen in that magazine in the past 6 years was Mike's impeller comparrison thingamajig from a couple months ago. At least that article attempted to describe a test methodology and carry it out. But in the end even that test didn't have enough time or manpower behind it to really dig in deep.
If you went to the LA boat show, bought an Ultra21 bow rider, go to Havi and Parker and drink beers, the mag is perfect. If you actually love gettin down to the nuts and bolts of it, and paying attention to the more miniscule details, you become a member of an audience, the mag wasn't written for.
So the question becomes, asside from the editorial blunders (for which there isn't an excuse, as we've all had to proof read a paper for school), is HBM not technical enough? Or have we as a small segment of it's audience become too technically orriented and strayed away from the target demographic?
The best thing to come out of the mag is the boards, and I owe a lot of what and who I know to that. Here the "agenda" is less obvious, and people do get together, try new things, and answer questions. The magazine doesn't have the financial or manpower resources to field the questions a lot of us would like explored, so we must either step up our own commitment, like Mike, CS, LV, Unchained, and tons of others have done; or look to the racing community where people spend the money that "joe weekender" can't justify in order to answer some of these questions.
With Mike's departure from ***boat who know's what we'll see in content changes, but does it really matter? Have any of us learned much of anything from the mag? Nope. It's through our comradarie here, at the river, on the lake, at the races, and on barstools that we get the answers we seek. So try not to cry over the spilt milk in HBM, and focus on the resources that ARE available and CAN be influenced by your actions.
Chris

[Jake W2]

I would say what Hot Boat mag is doing is working WE ALL KNOW what a Fen Fountian is and what one cost they just missed the part that most can't aford one.
The real and only thing that will make us happy is River Rod becoming reality.
Why can't you mag guys come out with a every 3 month type mag (River Rod) at first and see where it goes.
How many subscribers and a what price would it take I would be happy to pay my share.Make a cool shirt and stickers I will buy that shit to.I would like to have a mag I look forward to getting in the mail even if it is every 3 months or 6 months geez just give us something.There is ton of Jet and v drive tech stuff (hull builders)past and present,history of hulls,pumps,rigers,racers, pump shops,v drive shops,aftermarket shops,painters,gelcoaters,machinest,river (vacations) get togeathers ect for a mag or 6 a year.
Jake

[Squirtcha?]

Now that asside, Steelcomp is right, the mag as a whole is rife with inconclusive tests, erroneous information, and an overall feel that it's just a group of guys that go out and play with boats.
Chris
What's this ya say????????????? There are actually articles? I just look at the pictures.

[Squirtin Thunder]

I talked to someone from HBM @ the LA boat show and this guy was an
a-hole. I was complimenting him on the changes to the mag. and he said that they were just doing it as a test and it would most likely be cancelled becasue thats not where the ad $$$ came from. He told me "most of these mfgs. are not even in business anymore so why would we showcase there boats?" After he just finished talking about the ad $$$. He made some references about $5k boats versus the $100k boats. after that I walked away and did not renew.
BTW the reason I stoppped by the booth was to renew my subscription.
Here is my $5000 boat on NADA
Boats and Personal Watercraft
1977 SANGER BOAT MFG
SANGER BOAT MFG
Jet Drive Boats
CUSTOM SPRINT
April 19, 2005 print this page
Low Retail Average Retail
Base Price
$2,490 $3,000
Reported Engine Range: 471 - 500 HP (7.5L )
Total adjustment for your engine(s) - Add: $9,605
Options
Power Boat: CANVAS
Boat Cover - Custom - 18 ft. thru 25 ft.: $155 $185
Power Boat: ENTERTAINMENT
Stereo - am/fm cassette w/4 speakers: $120 $145
Power Boat: JET DRIVE
Blueprinted Jet: $225 $270
Grate - Race: $105 $125
Impeller - MPD Detailed - Installed: $545 $650
Jet-A-Vator - Manual: $275 $330
Nozzle Reducer - Installed: $85 $100
Power Boat: MISCELLANEOUS OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT
Cavitation Plates / Adjustable: $275 $330
Exhaust - Silent Choice: $545 $650
TOTAL PRICE $14,425 $15,390
Boat Specifications
Length: 18'
Model Name/Description: CUSTOM SPRINT
Boat Type: Jet Drive Boats
Hull Material: Fiberglass
Beam: 6' 7"
Engine: 1 550 HP
Gasoline
Net Weight: 2,000
I ran it just for the hell of it !!!

[cave]

I would renew if HBM covered more V-drives & jets. Its nice to dream about a 30' DCB, Howard or Daytona but reality for me is my 86 Kachina.
Got kinda old reading the same ol same ol about the newest biggest 180k boats.
Some of the stories in Just Jets are worthy of HBM like Dans blue printing of his bottom. How about a story on what vendors that are still out there servicing the likes of me like Rex Marine, Bergeron Engineering, MPD, Place and many others that I don't know of cause no ones listed them. Wouldn't that be a great story.
Hopefully this will hold steady and I may buy that subscription.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I would renew if HBM covered more V-drives & jets. Its nice to dream about a 30' DCB, Howard or Daytona but reality for me is my 86 Kachina.
Got kinda old reading the same ol same ol about the newest biggest 180k boats.
Some of the stories in Just Jets are worthy of HBM like Dans blue printing of his bottom. How about a story on what vendors that are still out there servicing the likes of me like Rex Marine, Bergeron Engineering, MPD, Place and many others that I don't know of cause no ones listed them. Wouldn't that be a great story.
Hopefully this will hold steady and I may buy that subscription.
I agree on this statement 100%
396

[Jordy]

Here is my $5000 boat on NADA
Boats and Personal Watercraft
1977 SANGER BOAT MFG
SANGER BOAT MFG
Jet Drive Boats
CUSTOM SPRINT
TOTAL PRICE $14,425 $15,390
Length: 18'
And if you can find someone to give you $14K for a 1977 18' jetboat, more power to ya. :D
Funny thing is, my 21' Schiada v-drive River Cruiser with a blower is only worth $4K or so in NADA. LOL :rolleyes: :D

[Squirtin Thunder]

And if you can find someone to give you $14K for a 1977 18' jetboat, more power to ya. :D
Funny thing is, my 21' Schiada v-drive River Cruiser with a blower is only worth $4K or so in NADA. LOL :rolleyes: :D
Mine useto be only $3000 so I am happy as a pig in shit !!!

[roostwear]

Well first of all, take the Silent Choice out of it. :rolleyes: We all know the appraisals aren't real world, but since the majority of the value is motor, take it out when it's sold. If appraisals determined sale price, Jordy's boat would be sold long ago. And NADA shows the circus boat being worth more..... :rolleyes:

[Squirtin Thunder]

Well first of all, take the Silent Choice out of it. :rolleyes: We all know the appraisals aren't real world, but since the majority of the value is motor, take it out when it's sold. If appraisals determined sale price, Jordy's boat would be sold long ago. And NADA shows the circus boat being worth more..... :rolleyes:
Mike Jordy said it right !!!
And if you can find someone to give you $14K for a 1977 18' jetboat, more power to ya.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Well first of all, take the Silent Choice out of it. :rolleyes:
Mike,
That was the only prevision for mufflers !!!!
And it is Silent compared to cs19s !!!

[Nucking futs]

With Mike's departure from ***boat who know's what we'll see in content changes, but does it really matter? Chris
:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Brooski]

I hope that is a nasty rumor. Question for Steelcomp, if you dont like the magazine, why do you read it, and post in HOT BOAT's forums? Sounds hypocritical to me.....

[steelcomp]

I hope that is a nasty rumor. Question for Steelcomp, if you dont like the magazine, why do you read it, and post in HOT BOAT's forums? Sounds hypocritical to me.....
I don't read the mag. Can't find it anywhere near where I live. Last one I bought was in Aug. last year. They did a feature on my boat and didn't even spell my name right! I don't make any connection at all between the forums and the magazine, except for the name. I post on these forums because RJB went down. If the magazine provided any where near the kind of info found here on the boards, I MIGHT read the mag. Here on the boards are where the REAL hot boaters are. Here on the boards are where the REAL experts are, not a bunch of staff writers and editors chasing around the country playing magazine high rollers.
Hypocritical?? How so?
Don't be a lemming. :rolleyes:

[Nucking futs]

I don't read the mag. Can't find it anywhere near where I live. Last one I bought was in Aug. last year. They did a feature on my boat and didn't even spell my name right! I don't make any connection at all between the forums and the magazine, except for the name. I post on these forums because RJB went down. If the magazine provided any where near the kind of info found here on the boards, I MIGHT read the mag. Here on the boards are where the REAL hot boaters are. Here on the boards are where the REAL experts are, not a bunch of staff writers and editors chasing around the country playing magazine high rollers.
Hypocritical?? How so?
Don't be a lemming. :rolleyes:
Now that i understand. well said steelcomp..........

[Larry Nebb]

Here on the boards are where the REAL experts are,
lol, I just had to quote this.
Oh, I think the rag is ok.
As you were. :coffeycup

[Brooski]

Makes sense. One reason I re-subscribed was because I had a hard time finding it also.
Only problem here is with the people that think they are experts. :notam: I do agree I have received some great info here.

[cyclone]

who was it that said that you can't please all of the people all of the time? Probably some guy who was too busy chasing around the country playing high roller. sheesh.

[LVjetboy]

So is that rumor true or not?
jer

[steelcomp]

who was it that said that you can't please all of the people all of the time? Probably some guy who was too busy chasing around the country playing high roller. sheesh.You're probably right! Sheesh!