21' Kevlar Eliminator Daytona--questions

[DeputyDawg]

Some of you may have seen my post a week or so ago where I said I was looking for a nice gullwing less engine to build a lake/river boat out of and that I really didn't want a tunnel because I felt that the gullwing would be a better choppy water boat.....well, in my search I ran across a guy who is desperately trying to sell a 21' Daytona that is supposed to be a kevlar lay up boat. He said the original owner had the boat built that way because he wanted it to be a little lighter than his previous 21' Daytona to try and get more performance out of it. The boat is in excellent condition and he also says that the interior instead of being built out of wood was built with a product called star-board that was skeletonized before being covered to save weight as well. The boat has the lightweight Autometer gauges and all of the hardware is powdercoated to perferction and is very nice. Basically he is wanting to pull his motor and jetaway out of it and then have someone take over payments on it since he is going to fall behind soon and not be able to make them anymore. I talked to his loan officer and found out that his payoff as of today is $17,520. How do I tell if it is really a kevlar lay up? If it is a Kevlar boat is that a good thing or a bad thing for weekend abuse and longevity? Is this boat actually worth that kind of money? The boat has a Dominator pump in it with shoe/rideplate, two different droops(the one that is on the boat is a long one, but it also comes with a short one to), it also comes with the loader that is in the boat as well as two others and tuning information and an extra stainless B impeller, the impeller in the boat is a AA. The boat is on an Extreme trailer with brakes and fold away tongue. Thanks

[HBjet]

Get the Hull ID and call Eliminator to see if they actually layed up the boat that way...
BTW, a gullwing is not a better choppy water boat at 18-19 feet... unless the chop your talking about is 6". A 21 Daytona is a better choice for choppy water running...
HBjet

[LVjetboy]

How much of that $17,520 is owed on the engine? Did whoever supposidly building it out of Kevlar know what they were doing to gain weight savings without compromising strength? That may be hard if not impossible to find out. I'd pass on that deal.
jer

[HBjet]

How much of that $17,520 is owed on the engine?
Very good point...

[NELSON#109]

Sounds Like A Nice Boat. If It Was Comin With The Moter & Jetaway It Might Be A Fair Price ( If Its As Nice As Is Said). W/ Out Moter.....pass!!!!!!

[RIPPINGNOLEGSKROKER]

deputydawg, if you decide to pass on this could you hook me up with the where abouts and number for this boat, Thanks

[DeputyDawg]

Eliminator did lay the boat up so I am guessing it was built properly. The guy at Eliminator said that they haven't built a lot of the 21s that way because it costs so much more but he said it was a really sweet set-up. None of the money is owed on the engine, the guy financed the boat against some type of floor plan or line of credit without an engine when he bought it and then put his 557" BBC turbo motor in it. After talking to him and his banker again today the deal is that I can buy the boat with everything except engine, meaning all of the accessories mentioned earlier as well as a custom cover and a set of through hull water jacketed Lightenings for $15,000 and he will also let me have the jetaway. All I would have to do is drop in my engine. He will pull his engine and leave everything else in place, plumbing, killer stereo system(precision power amps and MB Quart components) Dual Optima batteries and a custom insulated heat shield transon protector he had made for the blower motor. What should I expect to pay for a 21' Daytona in excellent condition like the above described boat less engine? Hell I see nice 19' Daytonas around here that don't have near the equipment this boat has and are not as nice sell for $7500.-$12,000 as two seater lake rods. Thank you guys for all youe help with this deal, Lord knows I need all I can get.
BTW, a gullwing is not a better choppy water boat at 18-19 feet... unless the chop your talking about is 6". A 21 Daytona is a better choice for choppy water running...
In my previous post I said I felt like a gullwing was a better choice than an 18-19ft tunnel for a lake boat, not a better choice than a 21' tunnel. I am selling a 19ft tunnel hull Kachina(similar to placecraft) because I just don't really like some things about it. If I was going to build a drag boat I would probably keep the Kachina.

[HBjet]

Eliminator did lay the boat up so I am guessing it was built properly. The guy at Eliminator said that they haven't built a lot of the 21s that way because it costs so much more but he said it was a really sweet set-up. None of the money is owed on the engine, the guy financed the boat against some type of floor plan or line of credit without an engine when he bought it and then put his 557" BBC turbo motor in it. After talking to him and his banker again today the deal is that I can buy the boat with everything except engine, meaning all of the accessories mentioned earlier as well as a custom cover and a set of through hull water jacketed Lightenings for $15,000 and he will also let me have the jetaway. All I would have to do is drop in my engine. He will pull his engine and leave everything else in place, plumbing, killer stereo system(precision power amps and MB Quart components) Dual Optima batteries and a custom insulated heat shield transon protector he had made for the blower motor. What should I expect to pay for a 21' Daytona in excellent condition like the above described boat less engine? Hell I see nice 19' Daytonas around here that don't have near the equipment this boat has and are not as nice sell for $7500.-$12,000 as two seater lake rods. Thank you guys for all youe help with this deal, Lord knows I need all I can get.
In my previous post I said I felt like a gullwing was a better choice than an 18-19ft tunnel for a lake boat, not a better choice than a 21' tunnel. I am selling a 19ft tunnel hull Kachina(similar to placecraft) because I just don't really like some things about it. If I was going to build a drag boat I would probably keep the Kachina.
15k for everything less motor? Depending on the year - BUY IT
You can't even get a new 21 Daytona complete less motor with standard features for 15k.
HBjet

[MAXIMUS]

Sounds like a helluva deal if the boat is clean & not abused! If it is set up right that could be a great ride... Not that I would know... :notam:

[revndave]

sounds like a good deal.I have a quote for an 04 with no engine for 44,000.but then I found my boat back east.

[Duane HTP]

That sounds like a good deal to me. That would make a killer boat.

[Restless22]

You have any pics to post of this Daytona??

[Cs19]

Good deal, get on it. If you dont go for it, pass it on to someone else on the boards. Rippingnolegskroker would give it a good home if you dont take it, he takes good care of his stuff.
I have a friend who priced a light weight 19 daytona, kevlar,carbonfiber,etc. they wanted over 20k for that, and 17k for a medium lay up.
Make sure its really what he claims it is before you cut him a check, and if it has one of those super set back jets in it where they cut the back of the boat out, check for cracks in the back of the boat, where the jet exits the transom.
We are gonna need some pics. :wink:
Oh, i think PCrat has a lightweight 21 daytona, maybe he has something to add.?
Cs

[LVjetboy]

"Eliminator did lay the boat up so I am guessing it was built properly. The guy at Eliminator said that they haven't built a lot of the 21s that way because it costs so much more but he said it was a really sweet set-up."
I'm no builder or racer so take my comments for what they're worth...bs opinion.
Awhile ago I read about kevlar and carbon fiber compared to glass. From what I understood, those stronger fibers required special resin and application, plus experience with how much is enough. If less fiber needed, how much less? And fiber strength may not lead to more durability if the filler fractures from fatigue or the fiber layer thickness not enough. That comes from experience with the material and lots of testing.
Some mfgs have experience with cutting glass and building special purpose chip hulls. And while mfgs like Eliminator learn from years of experience how much glass to cut for the application....do they have the same knowledge base for kevlar? You implied they don't posting...
"Eliminator said they haven't built a lot of the 21s that way"
No surprise. So the obvious question, do they have enough experience with that material to build it right for say, a lake boat, compared to a drag boat...if that's what the original customer ordered? I wouldn't assume that. And how many lake vs drag boats have they built out of Kevlar?
Yet most here say buy now! BTW, what was the weight savings? Just curious.
Did any of the previous owners document weight savings and tell you or do we just take it on faith? How many fiber layers and filler thickness certainly make a difference...no matter the fiber. But a company who doesn't build a lot of 21's that way? Do they have a magic formula? How can you be sure they know what they're doing and for that matter, "it was properly built?"
Or that the alleged weight savings offsets any strength or durability for your application? Just curious. Why did the previous two owners sell? Why does the current owner want to keep the engine and jetaway...for a better hull? If he can afford a better hull then why sell this one?
Or just go for it what the heck it's only $15k.
jer

[UBFJ #454]

I know several people who either work for directly for Eliminator or are Outsource Contractors for Special Projects done by Eliminator who are more than Qualified to do First Class Composite Material, including Kevlar, LayUps ... Eliminator uses quite a variety of different composite materials in fabrication of different components for their Off Shore Boats, especially their Off Shore Racers, where the stresses and strains experienced are far greater than in the Smaller Boats.
For someone to 'Imply' that Eliminator does not 'Know how to do a proper Kevlar Layup' because they don't manufacture many Small Boats anymore is absolutely irresponsible and shows how much that person doesn't know about Eliminator, in particular, and, the boat building industry in general.
Fact ... Eliminator doesn't make very many smaller boats anymore (especially Jet Boats ... maybe on average, one a year), either from fiberglass or anything else, because there isn't much of a demand for them at the price Eliminator is willing to manufacture and sell them for (Profit Margins on Small Boats Are Very Small) ... It's as simple as that. Right now, Eliminator has grown to where its a big business and its focus now is primarily on building and selling High End Bigger Boats ... That's where the Profit Margins are and they are in business afterall .....

[LVjetboy]

"For someone to 'Imply' that Eliminator does not 'Know how to do a proper Kevlar Layup' because they don't manufacture many Small Boats anymore is absolutely irresponsible and shows how much that person doesn't know about Eliminator, in particular, and, the boat building industry in general."
No problem Bear. I stand corrected and absolutely irresponsible. Like I care. No doubt Eliminator knows all both now and in the past no matter the size and year the subject boat was manufactured. As I said, just another bs opinion. :D I'm ok with that.
D. Dawg, how much measured weight savings? Just curious. My bs guess, someone who'd pay for kevlar or carbon would KNOW for a fact how much lighter their hull...you think? And how much that extra money would trade-off in performance. All the while hoping strength would hold. What the heck, if in doubt, buy it now! At least you'll be bullet proof?
jer

[Duane HTP]

Dawg, If you don't want the boat, I have a customer who does. He and I both KNOW Eliminator boats, and we're more than willing to take a chance that Eliminator didn't just up and build one bad Kevlar boat. I've had several of them. GOOD BOATS!!!!! Let me know where it's at if you don't want it.

[cyclone]

Something i learned while watching my hull being built... When a boat manufacturer needs to alter its lamination schedule for a special project hull, which might need to be built lighter than normal or needs to be built with special materials like carbon fiber or kevlar, they can vary easily call their fiberglass supplier for the information. The supplier will guide them to ensure the job is done right. For instance, if carbon and kevlar do not bond well together, the supplier might tell the builder a technique for counteracting this problem given the type of material and amount being used to build the boat.
Ultra does not build many lightweight boats so when I purchased mine, their glass supplier helped them alter the traditional lamination schedule (including curing time, type of 'glass, number of layers of 'glass installed, resin type etc.) in order to achieve the desired weight and strength. Just because a company like Eliminator doesn't build lighweight boats on a regular basis does not mean that their lamination crew is not capable of doing it succefully if they have the right information and materials. In fact, Eliminator has been laying up race hulls for a very long time. I'm sure they are more than capable.
my 2 pennies.

[DeputyDawg]

I talked to the guy who owns the boat again last night and asked a lot more questions. The original owner of the boat sold it to move on up to a bigger boat(big catamaran Daytona) and the guy who is trying to sell it now is getting the original owners contact information for me so that I can call him and ask him about the boat i.e. weight savings and what not. The guy who owns it now is having to sell some of his toys because of a job change and is keeping his engine because it his "baby" and is a twin turbo motor built by some dude named Bell(he seemed almost offended I didn't know who Bell was). Anyway, he also has an Earle Smith tunnel and a Sanger v-drive sitting in his shop that he is keeping, he just needed to sell some stuff he owes money on like the 21' Daytona and a couple Harleys as well as an ultra light airplane.
Make sure its really what he claims it is before you cut him a check, and if it has one of those super set back jets in it where they cut the back of the boat out, check for cracks in the back of the boat, where the jet exits the transom.
The pump is set back but the intake does not go out the back of the transom. That is one of the first things I look at because a lot of the hot rod jets around here have had the transoms cut to scoot the pump farther back.
Or just go for it what the heck it's only $15k.
Dude LVjetboy, are you mad about something or do you just have a sarcastic chip on your shoulder? You seem to imply in your posts that I just have money to piss away and that I am not doing my research. First of all it is none of your business if I do have money to piss away and second of all I don't have to justify anything I do to you or anyone else on these boards. I would also like to say that I appreciate the information you have given in this as well as another thread on this site that I started but there really is no need for the drama.
I am meeting with the guy here in a little bit out at the lake so that I can ride in the boat. After mentioning last night that I had never ridden in a 21' Daytona he insisted that we go take it for a spin before he pulls his motor out of it. Thanks for the advice guys. Keep it coming. If I decide not to buy this boat I will definitely pass it along here.

[BUSBY]

If it's what you say it is ... and it's clean ... buy it. If you don't decide to but it ... let me know ... I have someone who will buy it in a minute.
That's a steal for all that you wrote about.
BB

[BUSBY]

If it's what you say it is ... and it's clean ... buy it. If you don't decide to buy it ... let me know ... I have someone who will buy it in a minute.
That's a steal for all that you wrote about.
BB

[DeputyDawg]

Well, I got to ride in and drive the Daytona today and I must say that I was impressed. I had never been in a 21' Daytona before and I was pleseantly surprised at how well it rode and drove. Out in the middle of the lake the wind was blowing a little bit and there was about a one foot chop that the boat just soaked up like nothing while cruising. Now I don't usually ride with other people when they make speed passes but I told him if we found some still water to go ahead and get on it for 7-800 feet or so and after going to a non wind blown area he slowed to about a 15-20mph roll and nailed it :) :) :) :) :) , WOW!! I have never ridden in or driven a boat with that much horsepower but I don't think a plastic surgeon could remove the smile on my face right now. He also stepped on it pretty hard from a dead stop and it was equally impressive. The boat has a 9.5" impeller in it right now and when he nailed it I glanced over at the tach and it was turning 6600rpm, and when I asked how fast the boat ran he told me that he had not gotten the set up just right yet and that the pump wasn't loading hard enough once it got up around 105 or so and he stated that he had been told by Greg Shoemaker at GS Marine that the bottom needed to be redone and a different bubble needed to be worked into it if the boat was going to be run over that speed. A couple of other people have said that it just needs more tuning with the shoe and different loaders. Can any of you guys tell me about these stainless 9.5" impellers, I have run jetboats for a long time but never heard of a 9.5" impeller, only AA,A,B,C,D and so on. Anyways, I am going to call the original owner in the morning, but I have already decided to buy the boat and we are meeting tomorrow to work it all out. Thanks guys!

[TIMINATOR]

Gee what year is it? or did I miss that? I'm selling my 21 Daytona too, probably without motor. Dominator pump, stainless Aggressor impeller, inducer, Aggressor bowl(not stock),lots of custom interior pump stuff, custom droop,custom billet rideplate, inserted nozzle, hydraulic divertor, custom loader grate, Lightning headers, etc., etc. ,etc. Tach goes to 6000 (not enough),speedo goes to 100 (not enough either). It launches GREAT for a lake boat! I've got digital video of launches and runs if someone can tell me how to post it. Also have a 24 Daytona for sale with a Mercruiser/260 HP 350 (not stock) that runs low 60s! Runs on regular. Doesn't use much of it either. Keeping the big Daytona (got it apart making it faster, what did ya expect outta me?) Any takers? Timm 623-877-8553

[PC Rat]

Anyone know the weight of a bare 21' Daytona? Both light weight and standard layup.
Brian

[LVjetboy]

"Dude LVjetboy, are you mad about something or do you just have a sarcastic chip on your shoulder?"
Nope. Just commenting on you thread.
You ask a question on a public forum, I posted my thoughts right or wrong...nothing else. I could care less if you buy it or not copy? If you're looking for someone to say, "Go for it dude! That's a steal!" Then don't bother to read my posts. My opinion often not the conventional go-with-the-herd thing. But then, if you want a contrary opinion? Consider mine for what it's worth.
PCRat Posted: "Anyone know the weight of a bare 21' Daytona? Both light weight and standard layup."
LVjetboy posted: "Any of the previous owners document weight savings and tell you or do we just take it on faith? How many fiber layers and filler thickness certainly make a difference...no matter the fiber. But a company who doesn't build a lot of 21's that way? Do they have a magic formula? How can you be sure they know what they're doing and for that matter, "it was properly built?"
Or alleged weight savings offsets any strength or durability for your application? Just curious. Why did the previous two owners sell? Why does the current owner want to keep the engine and jetaway...for a better hull? If he can afford a better hull then why sell this one?
"...the boat has a 9.5" impeller in it right now and when he nailed it I glanced over at the tach and it was turning 6600rpm, and when I asked how fast the boat ran he told me that he had not gotten the set up just right yet and that the pump wasn't loading hard enough once it got up around 105 or so and he stated that he had been told by Greg Shoemaker at GS Marine that the bottom needed to be redone and a different bubble needed to be worked into it if the boat was going to be run over that speed. A couple of other people have said that it just needs more tuning with the shoe and different loaders. Can any of you guys tell me about these stainless 9.5" impellers, I have run jetboats for a long time but never heard of a 9.5" impeller, only AA,A,B,C,D and so on. Anyways, I am going to call the original owner in the morning, but I have already decided to buy the boat and we are meeting tomorrow to work it all out. Thanks guys!"
jer