Wicked Performance Boats !!!!

[Mr.&Mrs.Budlight]

Ok Guys&Gals, Some of you know us,some of you have met us, some have posted here. What we all have in common is a love for boats and how to make our boating experiences better. On Sept 1st last year I ordered a new hull from a boat manufacturer and thru the process i could not recieve the boat that I wanted. After 8months, he tried to talk me into taking a compromised hull, [not what I ordered or what he agreed to build for me!] Then when I asked him to knock off $500 for waiting for my boat and selling me a boat not built to my specs. He said not only would not discount it any, but I had to pay substantially more for the boat! I had a written and signed agreement that he wouldn't honor. Thankfully he did give me back my $1,000 deposit. Now what this process did was to allow me to purchase a gullwing hull mold. I guess things worked out for the BETTER. We are proud to announce our New Business. " WICKED PERFORMANCE BOATS " Boats and parts built to your specs. If you want to purchase a bare hull built to your specs or at any stage up to a complete turnkey boat, we'd like to help! We want the boat company to be your kind of boat company. So seeing how this is a new business. I want your imput on how we can best serve you. We'd like to be as user friendly as possible. So take the time to give us some usable ideas and opinions. We'd like to be your boat company!!! Mr.&Mrs Budlight :idea:

[Jake W2]

You guys need to get a deck out of that mold so we can see what it looks like.
Good luck with your new buis,cant wait to see the first one out.
Jake

[DeputyDawg]

Is your gull wing mold a 19ft or 18ft? Is it similar to the Youngblood mold like the CPs are, or is it like the Mantras? If you don't mind me asking, who will be laying them up for you? Thanks

[HBjet]

Good to hear your moving forward on this Budlight... it was nice talking to you Sunday at FC3 and hearing your ideas, etc... Like others I can't wait to see one popped out of the mold, and I have honestly been thinking about a new hull change in the near future...
Good Luck and keep us posted!
HBjet

[Jake W2]

DD I can tell you it is a 18 same bottom as a 18 CP or 18 Earl Smith the top is diffrent.
Jake

[Jetmugg]

Was the boat that you were trying to buy a Gullwing hull? CP?
SteveM - former CP owner.

[waterwitch]

Congrats on the new buisness. I really
hope it turns into the kind of buisness that
you want. (couldn't be any worse then the other
guy you were dealing with :D )
Can't wait to see a fresh one.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Thanks Traci, Just want to help fellow boaters have a realistic, reasonable experience boating! Starting with the Wicked 18ft Performance Gullwing :D Say hi to Jeff for me. Budlight

[superdave013]

That sounds great!
In less then a year I've heard of a few new players building flatbottoms and a few new ones making jets.
Gotta love this story. Guy could not get what he wants so he went out and did it his self. Now it sounds like he can offer it to others as well.
Living the American dream, it's a great thing!

[MudPumper]

Who will be doing the Lay Up???????????

[sdpm]

DD I can tell you it is a 18 same bottom as a 18 CP or 18 Earl Smith the top is diffrent.
Jake
You had better be careful how and who you compare your "New Boats" too! Don't mention anyother mfg's name or boats!! Just a word of caution!!

[DeputyDawg]

You had better be careful how and who you compare your "New Boats" too! Don't mention anyother mfg's name or boats!! Just a word of caution!!
What are you talking about spdm? Jake W2 can mention any mfg's boat as comparison that he wants to and so can the rest of us! This is America dude, remember? Now if "Wicked Performance Boats" uses another boat builder's name or product in an advertisment or something like that, that might be a problem legally for him, but as for the rest of us we can say whatever we want. Hell, they are all pretty much Youngblood copies anyway in some form or another.

[Jake W2]

sdpm I hear you but I am in no way part of Wicked Preformance Boats so I can say what ever I want.I have nothing to do with Budlight or his buis.Since you quoted me even if I change it it will allways be there(good lookin out)
Budlight if you feel like I am going to get you in to a problem I will change my post.
How about this it is like a Earl Smith 18 gullwing bottom witch is what a 18 CP was made from.
You must of had a problem with Eliminator and your 19s.
There is another comp making the copie of the PJB or Texas Performance or Earl Smith 18 gullwing besides CP Performance and it is the same top and all so it is not like the 18 CP is the end all be all of the 18 gullwing.
Jake

[sdpm]

I am not going to go into details here, but I have owned a gullwing mold and have built them for the last 10 years. Trust me, they will get a call and or letter re: this matter and it won't be from me!! Been there done that. Thats all. Just don't throw any names around. Call it whatever you want just don't compare it to anything else.

[sdpm]

sdpm I hear you but I am in no way part of Wicked Preformance Boats so I can say what ever I want.I have nothing to do with Budlight or his buis.Since you quoted me even if I change it it will allways be there(good lookin out)
Budlight if you feel like I am going to get you in to a problem I will change my post.
How about this it is like a Earl Smith 18 gullwing bottom witch is what a 18 CP was made from.
You must of had a problem with Eliminator and your 19s.
There is another comp making the copie of the PJB or Texas Performance or Earl Smith 18 gullwing besides CP Performance and it is the same top and all so it is not like the 18 CP is the end all be all of the 18 gullwing.
Jake
Hi Jake, Never had problem with my "PICKLEFORK" mold but did have an issue with the gullwing when I started building them. I have no problem with anyone building anything. I love seeing more of these small hot rods being built. But there is another builder out there that does not want any competition and will do what it takes to stop them. I just don't want to see them shut down before they even get going. Just trying to help. That's all!! If they would like some help,ideas,suggestions or anything I would love to help. I hope no one takes any of this the wrongway! Just trying to show the LOVE! :rollside:

[Jake W2]

I think we under stand where you are comming from.It is funny how some one that takes some one elses design does not change it makes and sells it under there name then send some one else a letter reguarding them doing the same.
As far as I know only only Jimmy J with Jet Boat Engineering bought the molds and rights to sell Jim Youngbloods TX19 hulls back in the day.
And you have seen and build first hand these hulls with a slue of comp through the years.
Jake

[sdpm]

You are so right! I bought mine from Jimmy Dom. out of texas close to 10 years ago. I made a delta pad insert we laid in for the outboards and it worked awsome. I built 5 outboards to every 1 jet. Great looking and performing boat but what a pain in the assssss to build. No room to work. Build one of these or a picklefork and then build a 21 v-bottom, you will know why noone wants to build them anylonger. Can't make any money on them either and the liability will kill you.

[djdtpr]

You are so right! I bought mine from Jimmy Dom. out of texas close to 10 years ago. I made a delta pad insert we laid in for the outboards and it worked awsome. I built 5 outboards to every 1 jet. Great looking and performing boat but what a pain in the assssss to build. No room to work. Build one of these or a picklefork and then build a 21 v-bottom, you will know why noone wants to build them anylonger. Can't make any money on them either and the liability will kill you.
SDPM when i went to look at my new TPR hull when it came out of the mold there was a brand new gullwing hull there,are those the ones that you are doing?The hull was realy nice looking inside and out.I liked the the detail that was taken on the inside on the floor.BTW i really like the pickle forks you got also they look super clean also.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Jake, I don't have a problem with you saying anything you want to on the internet. You have no affiliation with Wicked Performance Boats. Your words are just that, your words. What I have acquired in an 18ft gullwing mold. It is not a splash of anybodies boat. It does not look like any other manufactured boat. It has its own distinguishing original design. Good thing variety is the spice of life! Thank you for your interest. I will keep you posted and you can be sure there will be pictures of the first born! Mr.&Mrs. Budlight

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Thank you everybody for your interest. It just shows that there's still an interest in these smaller hotrod boats, I know I have. Any more constructive input? Budlight :D

[Wicked Performance Boats]

SDPM, You said that another builder does not want competition and WILL DO ANYTHING TO STOP US. Care to tell us who and why? :idea: Mrs. Wicked :D Please send me a PM.

[sdpm]

Wicked check your PM's

[djdtpr]

Congrats on the new buisiness venture MR and MRS Budlight hope it goes great.Its good to see that there are still people that love the little boats that we all cant seem to get enough of.I guess now we will never be rid of those pesky gullwings will we! :wink:

[sdpm]

SDPM when i went to look at my new TPR hull when it came out of the mold there was a brand new gullwing hull there,are those the ones that you are doing?The hull was realy nice looking inside and out.I liked the the detail that was taken on the inside on the floor.BTW i really like the pickle forks you got also they look super clean also.
Hi DJD, That was not one of mine? Thanks for the compliments. It's not easy building boats in Calif. anymore. Were you at West Coast Tooling when you saw it? Is Alex still laying up for Tom? I havn't talked to them in awhile

[Cs19]

Why would Scotten give a sh*t about the Budlights having a gullwing mold? Budlight said its not a splash, its not a CP copy,just cause its a "gullwing" means nothing.
If i got a piclefork mold, I dont think Id be getting letters from Papp or Duane.
CS

[Cs19]

DJD, atleast it looks different than the other Cp's, something new to look at. FB3 was like a CP regatta, they were everywhere!

[Ol Yeller]

This is great and a boost in the right direction for my kids to be able to enjoy things that I enjoyed as a kid but are fast becoming exstinct: Boats and Big Blocks. GET A TESTER AND WEBSITE! I'm always concidering more boat debt!
GOOD LUCK, Keep me posted.

[old rigger]

wicked,
congrats on the new biz.
Back in the late 80's I came this close (about 1/2 inch between my thumb and finger) from buying Scotons molds from him. we talked at length about many things, insurance, rigging, lamanation schedules, (which I pretty much knew because I was working at advantage at the time and we built his hulls) But I was really getting burnt out on the boat biz and didn't take him up on his offer. And as it turned out he kept on building his boats anyway. He's the finest guy on the planet to deal with, in my opinion, when it comes to buying a boat. Anyway, if I had bought his boats, I wouldn't have changed a thing. Why would I? They worked, they're fast and safe. Bill knows his shit better than anyone around so why would I try to change. I would have tried to do the same as he did. The main reason I didn't buy his stuff, besides being at the point of blowing my brains out if I had to listen to one more customer tell me where they wanted to put their cup holders, was I wasn't a racer. His stuff definetly needed a racer behind it.
I can't imagian anyone having a problem with you carrying on the tradition of building fine, small jets, no matter who's molds they were. I can't wait to see the first one.
congrats again.

[djdtpr]

SDPM yes Alex is still laying them up for Tom.I dont know what the name of the place was that we went and looked at the boat was but it was in Norco.
CS it is like a friggin gullwing regatta almost every weekend we go down to the river.We have a wide range of them too from CP,Earl Smith,Youngblood and sunkist and im sure there is one more that i cant remember the name of off the top of my head.Whats funny is if we couldnt get what we have now we probably both would have a gullwing though! ;)

[MudPumper]

Who will be doing the Lay Up???????????
And the million dollar question still goes unanswered???? If you don't yet have an answer just say you haven't got that far yet. :supp: :wink:

[Brooski]

And the million dollar question still goes unanswered???? If you don't yet have an answer just say you haven't got that far yet. :supp: :wink:
Is Mikey feeling like he is being ignored??? :umm: lol

[Wicked Performance Boats]

And the million dollar question still goes unanswered???? If you don't yet have an answer just say you haven't got that far yet. :supp: :wink:
I don't have a deal lockedup yet, but close. When I do, your'll know, easy Mike

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Thanks , old rigger We don't see why there would be a problem either. Mr.&Mrs. Wicked :D :D

[MudPumper]

I don't have a deal lockedup yet, but close. When I do, your'll know, easy Mike
LOL, can't wait to see one popped from the mold, good luck and keep us posted. :rollside:

[superdave013]

Just so I am clear on this! Are you guys saying that most boat companies do not build thier own hulls. They basically just rig them when they are out of the mold? If this is the case then what is the difference between the hulls if they are all laid up by the same person? Just a question!
Some do and some don't. Out here in CA the EPA is pretty hard on VOC's that come off the mold when the glass is curing. They are really starting to clamp down on the boating industry too.
So for a small shop to put in some type of solvant abatment system like the oxidizers I build it would cost to much. So..... there are a few large glass shops that are doing a lot of layups for a lot of different companies.
Now the boats are not the same because the molds are different. I've seen many boats layed up by the same place. But they are totaly different because some manintain their molds and others just pop boats out of them.

[old rigger]

Just so I am clear on this! Are you guys saying that most boat companies do not build thier own hulls. They basically just rig them when they are out of the mold? If this is the case then what is the difference between the hulls if they are all laid up by the same person? Just a question!
you bring up a great point. There are quite a few shops that do not lay up their own hulls. They farm it out to different guys that are set up to do that. the AQMD killed off some of the smaller shops with their smog laws.
So, when you do buy a boat from a guy that doesn't do his own glass work, what do you get thats different from another guys boat being laid up at this shop, besides the shape of the boat? Not much really, just the way it was rigged and little else. If you have a problem with the gel or glass work, your 'manufacturer' is nothing more than a middle man that's going to have you drop off your boat and then he'll take it to his guy to be fixed.
To me it's a huge disadvantage dealing with a shop with no glass dept. What's the point? The lay-up is everything.
One more time, the lay-up is everything.
If it's not being done in house there's no control over it. You're at the mercy of someone else doing the most important step in building a boat.

[old rigger]

I thought that this is what made each boat company different, unique.
you are 100% correct

[superdave013]

I wouldn't let it scare you to bad. Yes, small places like Schiada are laying up their own boats and doing a great job. Some of the big guys like Howard and Eliminator (sp) are also doing it and doing it very well.
But for most of these little shops that farm it out to shops like the well known one in Corona I think those guys will do as good of a job or better then someone who doesn't do it all the time.
The AQMD is just going to get worse for these guys too. I put some equipemnt in both Lasco bathware and Artesian spas not long ago. The cost of that would put 99% of the smaller shops (and some large shops too) out of biz real quick. And if it didn't it sure would jack up the price of your boat!

[sdpm]

you bring up a great point. There are quite a few shops that do not lay up their own hulls. They farm it out to different guys that are set up to do that. the AQMD killed off some of the smaller shops with their smog laws.
So, when you do buy a boat from a guy that doesn't do his own glass work, what do you get thats different from another guys boat being laid up at this shop, besides the shape of the boat? Not much really, just the way it was rigged and little else. If you have a problem with the gel or glass work, your 'manufacturer' is nothing more than a middle man that's going to have you drop off your boat and then he'll take it to his guy to be fixed.
To me it's a huge disadvantage dealing with a shop with no glass dept. What's the point? The lay-up is everything.
One more time, the lay-up is everything.
If it's not being done in house there's no control over it. You're at the mercy of someone else doing the most important step in building a boat.
Check with most of the "builders" and I think you will find that most of them do not even do their own repairs! It's much harder to do repairs and not cost effective to them. As far as the lay-up, I would much rather have a company that is set up for this and has workers that do it all the time and not a "glass shop" that does many other things. A lamination shop go's thru material faster and has fresher and cleaner stuff to work with. The workers do the same thing day in and day out. They are very good and trained at what they do. And you do have some control of what they do. If it is not right you don't take it!! Bottom line! That falls on the company selling the boat.

[old rigger]

I am sort of dissapointed finding this out to be honest. I had heard this some time ago but really never understood what it meant. At least can some baot companies say to the glass guy, to use a different type of material, for instance Kevlar. Do they have any control over the lay up process. Meaning if the boat seems to be laid up wrong do they send it back, or is all of the quality control done by the glass guys.
One more question, and then I should probably start a new thread.
WHICH BOAT COMPANIES HONESTLY BUILD THEIR BOATS?
Sure, the glass shop can lay-up each companys hull differently, but that's not the point. It's should be done in house. Bottom line is I don't think people give a shit, they're sold the boat with flash and graphics, and wiz bang financing, and slick salemen and blah, blah, blah. Ask one of salesmen them the lamanation schedule at a boat show and what thier eyes glaze over.
If you're going to buy a new boat, visit the shop. You'll smell the lamanation room long before you'll see it. Go visit a shop like Howards to see how it's done the right way.

[old rigger]

But for most of these little shops that farm it out to shops like the well known one in Corona I think those guys will do as good of a job or better then someone who doesn't do it all the time.
Are you serious? Better that someone who knows his own molds, and has a one on one connection with his customers.
no fockin way.

[old rigger]

Check with most of the "builders" and I think you will find that most of them do not even do their own repairs! It's much harder to do repairs and not cost effective to them. As far as the lay-up, I would much rather have a company that is set up for this and has workers that do it all the time and not a "glass shop" that does many other things. A lamination shop go's thru material faster and has fresher and cleaner stuff to work with. The workers do the same thing day in and day out. They are very good and trained at what they do. And you do have some control of what they do. If it is not right you don't take it!! Bottom line! That falls on the company selling the boat.
Why on earth would you buy a boat from someone who can't lay it to begin with and up and can't fix it when you mash it up?

[superdave013]

Hey Old Rigger, when Howard is forced into some VOC control please have them come see me. I'll talk to the powers that be here and see if we could swing some boat shop pricing. lol

[Cs19]

I think if the manufacturer sticks with the same lay-up guy, and has good communication with them, then there shouldnt be a problem with farming it out.The lay-up guys and manufacturer can work togethor, and every boat can be a little better than the last one if they are working togethor and developing it by making changes for the better after each boat,to me thats how it should work.
Man, I just wish there was a market for small hot rod jetboats, Id love to get involved in something like that.
CS

[old rigger]

Hey Old Rigger, when Howard is forced into some VOC control please have them come see me. I'll talk to the powers that be here and see if we could swing some boat shop pricing. lol
Back in the mid 80s when the aqmd was really comming down hard on the shops, we had a state of the art booth installed for the gelcoating. It was a pain in the ass to follow the regulations they put down. So we played their game, kept a log of all material used, and just sprayed a night in the old booth when no one was around. They're killing the boat biz in cali. Didn't effect the small shops like Rogers and so on because of the low volume of boats built and product used. He was grandfathered in for life, til he sold the property.

[old rigger]

I think if the manufacturer sticks with the same lay-up guy, and has good communication with them, then there shouldnt be a problem with farming it out.The lay-up guys and manufacturer can work togethor, and every boat can be a little better than the last one if they are working togethor and developing it by making changes for the better after each boat,to me thats how it should work.
CS
A great example of that, and a rare one, is Scotton.

[old rigger]

If these guys are not doing thier own molds what makes them anything more then a cost center for the guys who lay up the molds. Basically here is your product, fill it with stuff, and lets put some lipstick on this pig, SELL SELL SELL. It must be hard for guys like Howard to compete in this type of market. (unless you have an unbeatable quality like them and Schiada)
there's always a market for quality.

[Cs19]

My post may have sounded like I favor the "farming out" deal, obviously in house lay-ups are ideal, but lets be realistic, guys like Scotten and Papp cannot afford all these things SD013 mentions.
Sure Howard is doing it the right way, but can we compare Cal. Performance with Howard?
Im pretty damn sure Cal perf. would be lucky to sell a dozen boats this year.
CS

[sdpm]

You guys have it all figured out! Why don't you buy my molds, build them in house to my expectations and standards and then I will buy them from you at what I buy them now? Step up!! Lets go. You will be rich in no time!!

[superdave013]

My post may have sounded like I favor the "farming out" deal, obviously in house lay-ups are ideal, but lets be realistic, guys like Scotten and Papp cannot afford all these things SD013 mentions.
Sure Howard is doing it the right way, but can we compare Cal. Performance with Howard?
Im pretty damn sure Cal perf. would be lucky to sell a dozen boats this year.
CS
Howard is doing it the right way for now. That will change soon and they will have to step up to sometype of VOC control. Just the way it is.
OldRigger, if you think the AQMD was a hard ass in the 80's you should see what it's like in 2,005. lol
I would say right now the printing industry is our largest customer. But the styrine processes like spas and bathtubs are catchin up quick. (they make tubs with chopper guns just like OR did boats back in the day LMAO, j/k Rich lol)
Our sales team has been targeting the boating industry lately. Mostly the big guys like Bayliner, Sea Ray and the blue water guys that are really pumping boats out. But that's just the start. It will trickel down to eveyone else. And as it sould if you want to keep breathing.

[superdave013]

cole13, this is nothing different then any other industry. Do you really think Target makes all the Target branded stuff??
If he raised his prices you would go some place else for the "bro" deal.

[MudPumper]

Howard is doing it the right way for now. That will change soon and they will have to step up to sometype of VOC control. Just the way it is.
OldRigger, if you think the AQMD was a hard ass in the 80's you should see what it's like in 2,005. lol
Our sales team has been targeting the boating industry lately. Mostly the big guys like Bayliner, Sea Ray and the blue water guys that are really pumping boats out. But that's just the start. It will trickel down to eveyone else. And as it sould if you want to keep breathing.
Just wait, it will happen soon. I live in Valencia (where Howard is located) and the city now requires auto shops to only use water based degreasers and cleaners, no more solvent tanks allowed. Not only are the environmentalist cracking down but also City and County too. I'm sure the boat buisiness isn't far behind.
On a side note, next time you are next to a Howard, look down the side or across the deck, you won't find a single wave in the glass. It is a work of art if you ask me. Just wish I could afford one. :D

[Zeug]

cole13, this is nothing different then any other industry. Do you really think Target makes all the Target branded stuff??
If he raised his prices you would go some place else for the "bro" deal.
SuperDave is right. It's called specialization and it's in every industry. I'm in the Defense Satcom industry and it's everywhere. Business 101......

[sdpm]

A great example of that, and a rare one, is Scotton.
The same company that lays up his lays up mine! Who's hulls are better? Not boats but hulls? I'll be glad to name a few more. Who's are better. Then let's go to the upholstery. :argue:

[superdave013]

Also superdave, I did not forget about you. I counted the pieces I need and it looks like 25 or so (depending on if I do the water lines) The promblem is that I am not near you. So do I just ship the old lines to you to have the new lines made up????
You could do that. It will cost more due to my labor for putting them together. I think you could do it yourself with some instruction. Then you can make each hose fit just right over a lil long so it's sure to not be to short.
I'm heading on vacation for 1 week in about 2 hours. When I get back I'll contact you and go over everything with you.

[MudPumper]

You could do that. It will cost more due to my labor for putting them together. I think you could do it yourself with some instruction. Then you can make each hose fit just right over a lil long so it's sure to not be to short.
Dave, this right here is a perfect example of what a STAND UP guy you are. I have never met you, but eveybody speaks highly of you and when it comes time for me to do stainless lines you will be the one getting my business. ;)

[cole13]

You could do that. It will cost more due to my labor for putting them together. I think you could do it yourself with some instruction. Then you can make each hose fit just right over a lil long so it's sure to not be to short.
I'm heading on vacation for 1 week in about 2 hours. When I get back I'll contact you and go over everything with you.
Thank you, and have a wonderful trip?

[old rigger]

My post may have sounded like I favor the "farming out" deal, obviously in house lay-ups are ideal, but lets be realistic, guys like Scotten and Papp cannot afford all these things SD013 mentions.
Sure Howard is doing it the right way, but can we compare Cal. Performance with Howard?
Im pretty damn sure Cal perf. would be lucky to sell a dozen boats this year.
CS
Scotton made a choice from the begining not to have a shop at all, that's realistic part about it. His deal was no different that Rogers (where Bill got his start) when it came to low volume boat production. Roger chose to control every thing about the construction of his hulls, and the care of his molds. They were the finest I ever saw.
I think you can compare Howards to CPs. Howard is certainly not a high number builder in any way. Just high dollar.
And another thing, just because a shop does have a lamanation room, certainly doesn't mean they know what they're doing. lol

[old rigger]

I would say right now the printing industry is our largest customer. But the styrine processes like spas and bathtubs are catchin up quick. (they make tubs with chopper guns just like OR did boats back in the day LMAO, j/k Rich lol)
I never used a chopper gun in my life!
Maybe I should have learned, lots of happy bayliner owners in the world. Could have made a fortune. lol

[sdpm]

A great example of that, and a rare one, is Scotton.
So we know this "Boat Builder" does not build his own hulls. He lives pretty far away from the builder. Does he rig "his" boats and does he build all his custom engines? I don't recall seeing his machine shop. Just checking. I as well am trying to get informed.

[BUSBY]

Wow ... this did ruffle a few feathers!
Well, to Mr.&Mrs Budlight, good luck with your adventure! I hope that you're not put off by all of this. It takes a lot of guts to start your own business and I wish you all of the best.
As far as the rest of this goes, most everyone knows who has been boating the so.cal scene for a while who lays up their own stuff and who dosen't.
While I might not be the most knowledgeable on the subject (not being a boat mfg.), I would be completely fine with a builder farming out the hull lay up if it was done properly. I undersatnd how it "used to be" and where "it's going". What should be focused on is "who is doing it right" to the customer's satisfaction. And that is what Mr.&Mrs Budlight are attempting to do here. So let's get the thread back on track and applaud them for doing what some of the other mfg.'s are not ... trying to make us (the consumers) happy!
Good luck!
Brian

[old rigger]

So we know this "Boat Builder" does not build his own hulls. He lives pretty far away from the builder. Does he rig "his" boats and does he build all his custom engines? I don't recall seeing his machine shop. Just checking. I as well am trying to get informed.
I think he has a foundry too and casts his own blocks...........

[sdpm]

Good answer!

[Squirtin Thunder]

Wow ... this did ruffle a few feathers!
Well, to Mr.&Mrs Budlight, good luck with your adventure! I hope that you're not put off by all of this. It takes a lot of guts to start your own business and I wish you all of the best.
As far as the rest of this goes, most everyone knows who has been boating the so.cal scene for a while who lays up their own stuff and who dosen't.
While I might not be the most knowledgeable on the subject (not being a boat mfg.), I would be completely fine with a builder farming out the hull lay up if it was done properly. I undersatnd how it "used to be" and where "it's going". What should be focused on is "who is doing it right" to the customer's satisfaction. And that is what Mr.&Mrs Budlight are attempting to do here. So let's get the thread back on track and applaud them for doing what some of the other mfg.'s are not ... trying to make us (the consumers) happy!
Good luck!
Brian
Well this seems to be the way things go here on Hot Boat !!!! I will say that there is allot of good info here. But some of the .................. and bullshit would be better left on the street. I have met Mr. & Mrs. Budlight two times and always with open arms. I feel they have a very good plan and with a little support, they will do well. But to help there boat Co. they may have to build two or three just for racing. To help show case the boats abilities. Now the SCSC (APBA) and the Njba would be great places to start.
Just my thoughts
Jim

[flat broke]

Well this seems to be the way things go here on Hot Boat !!!! I will say that there is allot of good info here. But some of the .................. and bullshit would be better left on the street. I have met Mr. & Mrs. Budlight two times and always with open arms. I feel they have a very good plan and with a little support, they will do well. But to help there boat Co. they may have to build two or three just for racing. To help show case the boats abilities. Now the SCSC (APBA) and the Njba would be great places to start.
Just my thoughts
Jim
Gullwings in circles eh??? You sure about that?
Just pop out few "race deals" for promotion? Got 5k or so minimum for each hull?
Like yourself, I wish the Budlights the best of luck in their new venture. I just hope they have been talking to knowledgeable folks when it comes to the business end of running a boat business. Lots of ways for folks with good intentions on running a company to get completely F'd by lawsuits etc. While we might not like to think about it, terms like ROI, overhead, loaded cost, etc. are present just as much in this industry as they are in any other. And just like in other industries, in the boating industry, the people who know the "business" side of things are still around, while the folks that don't (regardless of how nice of a boat they built) aren't. I hope Pat finds someone with the business savy for this particlar industry that can guide and temper his enthusiasm to produce these boats. Otherwise, it's highly likely that he'll just become another name on a list of owners for a set of molds. Personally, I think the recreational background of the boats themselves lends to the lacadasical business practices prevelant in many existing and extinct performance/custom boating companies. Approach the situation from a "business that builds boats" rather than a "let's build boats and have a business" mentality.
Good luck Pat,
Chris

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Wow ... this did ruffle a few feathers!
Well, to Mr.&Mrs Budlight, good luck with your adventure! I hope that you're not put off by all of this. It takes a lot of guts to start your own business and I wish you all of the best.
As far as the rest of this goes, most everyone knows who has been boating the so.cal scene for a while who lays up their own stuff and who dosen't.
While I might not be the most knowledgeable on the subject (not being a boat mfg.), I would be completely fine with a builder farming out the hull lay up if it was done properly. I undersatnd how it "used to be" and where "it's going". What should be focused on is "who is doing it right" to the customer's satisfaction. And that is what Mr.&Mrs Budlight are attempting to do here. So let's get the thread back on track and applaud them for doing what some of the other mfg.'s are not ... trying to make us (the consumers) happy!
Good luck!
Brian
Brian, Thank you for your support! That's our goal! To make affordable fast Styling hotrod boats for everyone! I have noticed over the years boat businesses, try to keep customers in the dark, like it's some blackart to make boats [not all] But I grew up building hotrods. I couldn't afford to buy them done. That's what gave me the love and appreciation for them. I have grown to feel that way about hotrod boats. If I could go buy a new car and put my own drive train in it I would. We believe people want to build their own boat. I know we do. So let's try to keep affordability into the hotrod boat business. If you just want a bare hull to build yourself, or trick parts to install yourself, as you can afford them, or a complete turnkey boat, mild to wild. We want to be your boat company. Mr.&Mrs Budlight (WPB)

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Well this seems to be the way things go here on Hot Boat !!!! I will say that there is allot of good info here. But some of the .................. and bullshit would be better left on the street. I have met Mr. & Mrs. Budlight two times and always with open arms. I feel they have a very good plan and with a little support, they will do well. But to help there boat Co. they may have to build two or three just for racing. To help show case the boats abilities. Now the SCSC (APBA) and the Njba would be great places to start.
Just my thoughts
Jim
Jim, Don't ya think this might be a good excuse for me to go racing? As if we need one. and I will have no problem laying up light fast boats! Budlight

[Squirtin Thunder]

Gullwings in circles eh??? You sure about that?
Just pop out few "race deals" for promotion? Got 5k or so minimum for each hull?
Like yourself, I wish the Budlights the best of luck in their new venture. I just hope they have been talking to knowledgeable folks when it comes to the business end of running a boat business. Lots of ways for folks with good intentions on running a company to get completely F'd by lawsuits etc. While we might not like to think about it, terms like ROI, overhead, loaded cost, etc. are present just as much in this industry as they are in any other. And just like in other industries, in the boating industry, the people who know the "business" side of things are still around, while the folks that don't (regardless of how nice of a boat they built) aren't. I hope Pat finds someone with the business savy for this particlar industry that can guide and temper his enthusiasm to produce these boats. Otherwise, it's highly likely that he'll just become another name on a list of owners for a set of molds. Personally, I think the recreational background of the boats themselves lends to the lacadasical business practices prevelant in many existing and extinct performance/custom boating companies. Approach the situation from a "business that builds boats" rather than a "let's build boats and have a business" mentality.
Good luck Pat,
Chris
Well if you remember the Mod VP class ???? Wouldn't a Gull be concidered a Mod Vee ??? I could be wrong ???????? :confused:

[Squirtin Thunder]

Jim, Don't ya think this might be a good excuse for me to go racing? As if we need one. and I will have no problem laying up light fast boats! Budlight
Hell yes !!! Like you need an excuse !!! :p

[djdtpr]

That's We believe people want to build their own boat. I know we do. So let's try to keep affordability into the hotrod boat business. If you just want a bare hull to build yourself, or trick parts to install yourself, as you can afford them, or a complete turnkey boat, mild to wild. We want to be your boat company. Mr.&Mrs Budlight (WPB)
I am not trying to knock any of this or try and take anything away from your ideas and dreams at all so definatly dont take this that way.I dont know how comfortable i would be selling a bare hull that is carying my name on it and trusting someone else to rig it and set it up.There are plenty of people that have these kind of boats that are capable of doing it but there are plenty that arent also.I would hate to see one that was just thrown together and everyone looks at and frowns on it or makes the company look bad.Like i said just a thought not trying to start anything.

[Cas]

I just been kind of sitting back and reading all this stuff, some good and some not so good. Although I've never been in the boat business, I have started 3 businesses on my own. The one thing I can suggest is do what your gut says and work it out. I think it's great that you're giving it a try and I really hope you can succeed. I'm pretty sure you know there are many obstacles to get over but what the hey. It was once said that there would never be a call for a computer in the home. If I remember correctly, it was Mr. Hewitt that said that.
It CAN be done and here's a ton of good karma going your way!

[Cs19]

I hope Im not coming across in a negative way,cause thats not my intention. I hope the BLs get loads of business and sell a shitload of boats.
Id like to see something new out there, especially if its quality. Im burnt out on the "swap meet specials"
Good Luck BLs, my advice to you is get one popped out ASAP.
CS

[bp]

I am not trying to knock any of this or try and take anything away from your ideas and dreams at all so definatly dont take this that way.I dont know how comfortable i would be selling a bare hull that is carying my name on it and trusting someone else to rig it and set it up.There are plenty of people that have these kind of boats that are capable of doing it but there are plenty that arent also.I would hate to see one that was just thrown together and everyone looks at and frowns on it or makes the company look bad.Like i said just a thought not trying to start anything.
you mean like when a guy lays up a really beautiful light picklefork and rigs it with all brand new stuff, and the brand new bowl blows to pieces on the second pass???
don't mean to pick on anyone here danny, but -shit- can happen to (or be laid on) experienced pros too. rigger is worried about who's laying up the hull? why? how many hull failures are there? i haven't seen too many of those lately. but i've sure seen shrapnel flyin' once too many times. i know what pieces i'd be focusing on if i really wanted a reliable boat.

[Cs19]

:eek:

[565edge]

Hey Bp did someone at aggressor sleep with your wife?Im getting really tired of seeing you bash them over and over.Its bullshit!You are and will be the fastest and smartest racer ever lived.You are a legend.You seem like a nice guy but lay-off the bashing!

[old rigger]

rigger is worried about who's laying up the hull? why?
Because it's the most important part of building a boat? duh.
So what would you be focusing on if you 'really wanted a reliable boat'? I don't know why anyone wouldn't want a reliable boat by the way. I would think that an un-reliable boat would be a pain in the a$$, but I'm curious where you'd start.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

:rollside: Thank-You for all the information and all the things that can go wrong. With all the support were getting from all of you, It lets us know that our business will be a success. No one is going to get Rich, But, Were going to have Fun being able to continue a Hobby that can make People Happy. The Hull is the Most Important! Then making sure that the Person buying it know everything about it and how to rig right and drive safe. We will be there for All the Needs for our boats. 110%. for the rest of your Boats life, Even if it changes owners. We enjoy what we do and we have over 50 years (Pat)(Julie over 30 yrs)of Boating. We take PRIDE in our work and we want you to Love your boat just like a family member. Its just like a New Birth. We have done and are still doing our homework on the business. I have owned a successful business, but since retired from it. We have great people looking out for us. Definetly, we are going to race some. Thats one of the benefits of having a mold. We are laying one up right away and we will keep you informed from beginning to finish. We have nothing to hide. We Trust our connections. The first one will be colored and then the white one . Again Thank-You and keep the info. coming. Mr.&Mrs. Budlight - WICKED PERFORMANCE BOATS :smile: :cool:

[Brooski]

Any plans on obtaining something like a 19 ft tunnel bottom family type mold? I could do that........If not, I will keep my bumper boat for ya.

[78Southwind]

Any plans on obtaining something like a 19 ft tunnel bottom family type mold? I could do that........If not, I will keep my bumper boat for ya.
Traitor :yuk:

[Brooski]

I never said I would sell the SW, did I? If I was gonna build a boat, I would still need a toy to take out........How quick they turn on ya....lol :rollside:

[djdtpr]

you mean like when a guy lays up a really beautiful light picklefork and rigs it with all brand new stuff, and the brand new bowl blows to pieces on the second pass???
don't mean to pick on anyone here danny, but -shit- can happen to (or be laid on) experienced pros too. rigger is worried about who's laying up the hull? why? how many hull failures are there? i haven't seen too many of those lately. but i've sure seen shrapnel flyin' once too many times. i know what pieces i'd be focusing on if i really wanted a reliable boat.
Well BOB thats not exactly what i am talking about.The boat was rigged beutifully and not plain jane crap look like so many i have seen before!I may have gotten lost but i dont see where the boat builder or the people that rigged the boat can be blamed for a pump mfg probles!Was it poor rigging that caused the bowl to blow apart?Was it poor pump work that blew a couple handholes apart last summer and an intake?Same point BOB.How about we stay on the subject of the thread and if ya want to bicker we will do that in person some time not on a public thread!
Like i said MR and MRS didnt mean to start any issues just asking.Good luck and cant wait to see one.

[Jake W2]

DJD other than a set intake what do you think the boat builder should include or no sale.
So did you get rid of the Place Craft for a 19 Shadow or a 19 Stealth?
Jake

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Any plans on obtaining something like a 19 ft tunnel bottom family type mold? I could do that........If not, I will keep my bumper boat for ya.
Brooski, Ya just never know where this things gonna go!!!! It's ok to have a southwind too!! :hammerhea Budlight

[bp]

Because it's the most important part of building a boat? duh.
So what would you be focusing on if you 'really wanted a reliable boat'? I don't know why anyone wouldn't want a reliable boat by the way. I would think that an un-reliable boat would be a pain in the a$$, but I'm curious where you'd start.
you're missing my point, i'll try again. you speak highly of scotton's approach, advantage was laying up all his tunnels and 18s until he decided not to pay their price and found another shop to do it. does that mean his hulls aren't reliable because he doesn't layup his own? it seems like they come out ok. it doesn't seem impossible to me that the bl's could not come to an agreement with a reputable shop to layup their hulls. there are several in lhc that could do the job, and do it quite well.
and i'll say it again - i have not heard of hulls failing, or seen hulls failing, not in a very long time. yeah, 20-25 years ago, when people were still experimenting, but you just don't see that anymore. the few new hulls we see all look great, and you just don't see them cracking to pieces or falling apart.
as far as the other part, let me address it this way. were you there to see it allan? that thing could have killed somebody. allan, were you around in the late 60s when nader practically took gm apart over the corvair? how about when foreign cars started taking over the market in the 70s? i'm not talking about volute efficiency, or vane length, or pump theory here, i'm talking about quality control!
tom mott should know what i'm talking about, and he should know where i'm coming from here; how many times does a piece of foam have to fall off a shuttle before somebody says "wait a minute"? there is a term that a few of you may have heard before, maybe not; "normalization of deviants". that is, the foam fell off before and nothing bad happened, so it must be ok; ergo, it is a "deviation" from the "norm", but it is now considered "normal".
and this gets to the core; the bowl blew apart on it's second pass. i'm not going to get into other parts that have failed - those were precursors easily identifying faults in the process - because they were contained. but this could have killed someone. how close does it have to get allan? chop your dads head off as he's standing in the staging lanes? maybe it has to do with the environment i work in, but there has to come a time when enough is enough. this stuff should not be getting out the door, released to the public; it should have been cut up for scrap.
rigger, i'm not disagreeing with you, and i respect your comments. but if i have to be the lone ranger, alan, i will be that. since this happened two months ago, nothing has been said about how this will be prevented from happening ever again. we as a jetting community need to demand QUALITY in the products we obtain. this is 2005, and it IS possible to obtain it.

[djdtpr]

DJD other than a set intake what do you think the boat builder should include or no sale.
So did you get rid of the Place Craft for a 19 Shadow or a 19 Stealth?
Jake
Jake it was just a comment on how i would feel as a mfg thats all it was.Yes i trashed the placecraft and got a TPR stealth.It also was a bare hull but is being rigged under professional supervision.There have already been items that were talked about that were shot down by the builder due to safty reasons and quality reasons.That was why i asked the question i did no other reason.

[Jake W2]

Trashed the Place Craft? :confused: Thought you were cutting to pod back?
My question was not questioning your opnion just to help Budlight out.
Good luck with the new hull.
Jake

[djdtpr]

Trashed the Place Craft? :confused: Thought you were cutting to pod back?
My question was not questioning your opnion just to help Budlight out.
Good luck with the new hull.
Jake
We were gonna just cut the pod back but when the boat went upside down we found cracks going up the tunnels and some going across from tunnel to tunnel so it was time to retire it.
No problem about the rigging deal i just dont want to get into it im not into the bickering deal and there always seems to be somebody out there that wants to.
Danny

[Squirtin Thunder]

you're missing my point, i'll try again. you speak highly of scotton's approach, advantage was laying up all his tunnels and 18s until he decided not to pay their price and found another shop to do it. does that mean his hulls aren't reliable because he doesn't layup his own? it seems like they come out ok. it doesn't seem impossible to me that the bl's could not come to an agreement with a reputable shop to layup their hulls. there are several in lhc that could do the job, and do it quite well.
and i'll say it again - i have not heard of hulls failing, or seen hulls failing, not in a very long time. yeah, 20-25 years ago, when people were still experimenting, but you just don't see that anymore. the few new hulls we see all look great, and you just don't see them cracking to pieces or falling apart.
as far as the other part, let me address it this way. were you there to see it allan? that thing could have killed somebody. allan, were you around in the late 60s when nader practically took gm apart over the corvair? how about when foreign cars started taking over the market in the 70s? i'm not talking about volute efficiency, or vane length, or pump theory here, i'm talking about quality control!
tom mott should know what i'm talking about, and he should know where i'm coming from here; how many times does a piece of foam have to fall off a shuttle before somebody says "wait a minute"? there is a term that a few of you may have heard before, maybe not; "normalization of deviants". that is, the foam fell off before and nothing bad happened, so it must be ok; ergo, it is a "deviation" from the "norm", but it is now considered "normal".
and this gets to the core; the bowl blew apart on it's second pass. i'm not going to get into other parts that have failed - those were precursors easily identifying faults in the process - because they were contained. but this could have killed someone. how close does it have to get allan? chop your dads head off as he's standing in the staging lanes? maybe it has to do with the environment i work in, but there has to come a time when enough is enough. this stuff should not be getting out the door, released to the public; it should have been cut up for scrap.
rigger, i'm not disagreeing with you, and i respect your comments. but if i have to be the lone ranger, alan, i will be that. since this happened two months ago, nothing has been said about how this will be prevented from happening ever again. we as a jetting community need to demand QUALITY in the products we obtain. this is 2005, and it IS possible to obtain it.
Here, Here !!! I agree 100% with you Bob. Quality Control does matter and it doesn't take that much longer to check each one as they come off the assembly line with todays computer controlled scanning devices.
Jim

[old rigger]

you're missing my point, i'll try again. you speak highly of scotton's approach, advantage was laying up all his tunnels and 18s until he decided not to pay their price and found another shop to do it. does that mean his hulls aren't reliable because he doesn't layup his own? it seems like they come out ok. it doesn't seem impossible to me that the bl's could not come to an agreement with a reputable shop to layup their hulls. there are several in lhc that could do the job, and do it quite well.
and i'll say it again - i have not heard of hulls failing, or seen hulls failing, not in a very long time. yeah, 20-25 years ago, when people were still experimenting, but you just don't see that anymore. the few new hulls we see all look great, and you just don't see them cracking to pieces or falling apart.
I'm not missing any point, if anyone is missing something it's you. I mentioned Scotton because he is the EXCEPTION to the rule of boat building without a glass shop or any shop at all for that matter. When he'd place an order he was like a mother hen from the minute the molds were waxed to the day he pulled in and took delivery of the hull. I'm talking about at advantage when I was GM there, I don't know how things are done with him now but knowing how concerned he is with his product, I'd bet it's the same. He would be there for everystep of the process, making sugestions, changes, whatever, to the point of almost being a pain in the ass to have around. He knew, and we knew, that he'd still get the same results if he were there or not. The 'point' is he was there. The point is he knew exactly what was done with each hull. We did stuff for other builders, almost every shop I worked at did outside work for someone. They would never show the interest that he did/does. Fill the order and pick up the boat. There's nothing wrong with that at all, like we've be talking about here, that's seems to be the way things are done now. But for me, I'd rather deal with a builder that does everything in house. If I had a question about the lay up, I'd like to be walked through the door into the lamanation room and showed the answer to it. I don't think I'd like to get a puzzled looked from the guy and then be told 'well I don't really know cause my molds are 40 miles away at so-and so's shop so I'll put a call into him and get back with you later'. What's the 'point' to that? If you don't have a problem with doing biz like that that's fine. I think a lot of people feel the same as you. I liked the idea of walking a customer through the process from begining to end and I think there are certain buyers that do like that one on one relationship with the boat builder. It sounds like the budlights have every intention to build the best boat they can, I wish nothing but sucess for them. Like I said before, there's always room for quality.
As far as hulls failing, you need to get out more. Even though I've been out of the boat deal for 10 years now I still have a few friends that are in it and more importantly, a few that own repair shops. I still see the same types of things go wrong that happened to hulls 10, 20, 30 years ago. You gotta check out the repair shops to see how good new boats are being built, just like walking through the service dept at a car dealer before you buy a new car, it's no different. Stuff happens and sometimes it fails. But to say it doesn't happen anymore is wrong.

[78Southwind]

I never said I would sell the SW, did I? If I was gonna build a boat, I would still need a toy to take out........How quick they turn on ya....lol :rollside:
Ok, retraction of traitor. :shift:

[Wicked Performance Boats]

I'm not missing any point, if anyone is missing something it's you. I mentioned Scotton because he is the EXCEPTION to the rule of boat building without a glass shop or any shop at all for that matter. When he'd place an order he was like a mother hen from the minute the molds were waxed to the day he pulled in and took delivery of the hull. I'm talking about at advantage when I was GM there, I don't know how things are done with him now but knowing how concerned he is with his product, I'd bet it's the same. He would be there for everystep of the process, making sugestions, changes, whatever, to the point of almost being a pain in the ass to have around. He knew, and we knew, that he'd still get the same results if he were there or not. The 'point' is he was there. The point is he knew exactly what was done with each hull. We did stuff for other builders, almost every shop I worked at did outside work for someone. They would never show the interest that he did/does. Fill the order and pick up the boat. There's nothing wrong with that at all, like we've be talking about here, that's seems to be the way things are done now. But for me, I'd rather deal with a builder that does everything in house. If I had a question about the lay up, I'd like to be walked through the door into the lamanation room and showed the answer to it. I don't think I'd like to get a puzzled looked from the guy and then be told 'well I don't really know cause my molds are 40 miles away at so-and so's shop so I'll put a call into him and get back with you later'. What's the 'point' to that? If you don't have a problem with doing biz like that that's fine. I think a lot of people feel the same as you. I liked the idea of walking a customer through the process from begining to end and I think there are certain buyers that do like that one on one relationship with the boat builder. It sounds like the budlights have every intention to build the best boat they can, I wish nothing but sucess for them. Like I said before, there's always room for quality.
As far as hulls failing, you need to get out more. Even though I've been out of the boat deal for 10 years now I still have a few friends that are in it and more importantly, a few that own repair shops. I still see the same types of things go wrong that happened to hulls 10, 20, 30 years ago. You gotta check out the repair shops to see how good new boats are being built, just like walking through the service dept at a car dealer before you buy a new car, it's no different. Stuff happens and sometimes it fails. But to say it doesn't happen anymore is wrong.
Old Rigger, If that had been our experience, we would not be going into business for ourselves. A deal in writing, is a DEAL. Most good people in business will honor their written agreement! I know I will always. I Think this builder now has now other interests and building boats is now on the back burner. I waited for 8 months for my boat while he held $1,000 of my money!! You know it's amazing. After all this. I know there are diehard fans and diehard enemies after dealing with this manufacturer, for this boat. I was one[fan]!!! But. old rigger[no disrespect intended] That was then and now is now. It was not me who chose to not honor our agreement. I was still patiently waiting for my boat. So, not only did he not HONOR the Contract but INCREASED the price. Hoping to A. get me to pay more! B. Give me the chance to get out of the contract, so he wouldn't have to honor it. I think that he chose B!!!! He never stayed on top of it. I know because I did, even I, live the same distance away! I knew more about it than he did! I just didn't tell him I was keeping tabs on it. It was my baby. My wife gave it to me for my birthday present. It was special. Now I have something that worked out for the better ,But, The stress took its toll on me over that. We will do everything under our power to make each customer and their special boat everything they want it to be . Honor is Everything !!!!! Budlight WPB

[Wicked Performance Boats]

I'm sorry I got up on my bandstand. I just feel strongly about it when I'm not treated fairly. Most people would not like to keep reading a thread full of negative thoughts, me either, so lets move on. " Good things are yet to come, Move on from the past, It's over and done!!!!! Budlight

[cole13]

what is the status with these boats?

[Wicked Performance Boats]

We have not secured a layup facility or decided if I shall lay them up myself. I will keep you all informed. This is a bad time of year to get cooperation from any boat layup facility. Thanks for your interest. Mr. & Mrs. Budlight :boxed:

[TRG]

you mean like when a guy lays up a really beautiful light picklefork and rigs it with all brand new stuff, and the brand new bowl blows to pieces on the second pass???
don't mean to pick on anyone here danny, but -shit- can happen to (or be laid on) experienced pros too. rigger is worried about who's laying up the hull? why? how many hull failures are there? i haven't seen too many of those lately. but i've sure seen shrapnel flyin' once too many times. i know what pieces i'd be focusing on if i really wanted a reliable boat.
So Bob, If you thought you were a nuclear physicist, you would have some idea about the falier of a "AGRESSOR" bowl.
In the interum of this faliar, the boat (ROGER SAYLES) has run 9.26 ET on pump fuel (92oct.) @ Phoenix.
You wish you had the beans to go that quick!
B4 you talk shizzle you better be able to cover your tizzle.
You aught ta think about about what you say b4 you say it on the boards.
you aint jesus' cristo's,...so remember that your fellow racers are your friends,...remember what i said!
(yes, i am a cheerleader!)
TODD

[Cs19]

The brown/tan edge? 9.26 @ firebird? No NOS? On pump gas?
Not to shabby! Somebody definatly found something in that set up, I wanna say he was running low 10's and high 9s at Ming? Thought I saw an SE (11 sec.) sticker on it, if I remember correctly.
My hats off to whoever found .75 of a second, and to be able to run that well at Firebird.