Rooster tail/Diverter ?

[Taylorman]

Im wondering if anyone has had the same issue that im having. My rooster tail seems have a v in it. It looks like the reverse bucket is not open all the way but i know it is. This v sprays water off to the right side. Its a brand new American Turbine diverter. It has a 3.125" insert. I remember a while back someone had a similar issure with a split rooster tail. Any suggestions?
Kevin

[FASTRAT]

that is soooo kewl...just think of it this way...V for Victory lol...what could be better than that!...anyways...seriously...i have never seen a v rooster...so i dont have a clue
fastrat

[Taylorman]

Come on guys, give me some help here.

[Greaser]

It's a Split Tail, you need to order the male version....... :D
LMAO

[kp216]

Taylorman - Have you had someone drive the boat while you take a look over the back? Maybe you could see what's causing the diverter to divert. Sorry for the pun... :D

[victorfb]

are you running a droop, and does it have the split? im just curious if that causes this proplem. i was told it helps direct the water flow by decreasing its spiral.

[Taylorman]

Taylorman - Have you had someone drive the boat while you take a look over the back? Maybe you could see what's causing the diverter to divert. Sorry for the pun... :D
Yes i did and no i could not see what was causing the problem.
are you running a droop, and does it have the split? im just curious if that causes this proplem. i was told it helps direct the water flow by decreasing its spiral.
Im running an American Turbine straight snoot and no it has no divider inside like a droop does. Its open all the way through.
A while back someone was complaining of this problem with their place diverter. A friend of mine has a droop and place diverter and his does it also.
Kevin

[mgar_red]

Taylorman, it was just a thought, but do you think the insert has something to do with it? Like maybe shifting to one side when under full throttle causing some turbulance on your stream?
I don't mean to change the subject, but did you ever find/choose a different loader to go with?

[460 jus getn it]

here is mine. i have a droop and diverter.this pic as taken with 4deg of wedge.http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1570S3010077-med.JPG

[Taylorman]

Someone else told me to look at the insert but that thing is pretty precise. It slips in and is held in place with a bolt. I can't see how that would be causing the problem.
No i have not tried another loader. I need to figure out this problem first.
Thanks.

[mgar_red]

Maybe try putting a straight edge inside the nozzle/insert at points 360* to see if you find a rocker? Just brainstorming. :smile:

[bottom feeder]

Taylorman,
Are you running a droop?

[oldbuck40]

hey kevin dont worry about it at least you dont have what looks like to me is 3 tails coming out of mine???? i would love to know what is causing this problem also!!! it must be somthing to do with the 2 wedges i have in it now,,think about it b/4 the snoot, droop, or wedges its coming out of the pump straight! well i would think all the re routing of the water with the wedges or different angles with a droop or snoot would throw it all out of wack by the time you bend it again with the diverter thus causing it to split?
who knows? might be a good subject to bring up at somerville!!!

[HBjet]

PM Hustler... He had the same problem a while ago.
HBjet

[Taylorman]

No droop, i have a straight AT snoot. Maybe chet can help me :D :D
I will be talkin about it at Somerville if its not fixed by then.
Kevin

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Ok ,nobody has asked so I will. Are you sure that the pins that it pivots on are not sticking out or recessed? And what about the steering pivot too, or are the cradle bolts too long going into your bowl? Budlight

[Bryan Rose]

Does it look like this?http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/766DSC02441.JPG

[Taylorman]

Ok ,nobody has asked so I will. Are you sure that the pins that it pivots on are not sticking out or recessed? And what about the steering pivot too, or are the cradle bolts too long going into your bowl? Budlight
I need to check that tonight.
Bryan Rose,
No it sprays water off to the right also. Im gonna try to take a picture this weekend.

[jdf]

ours does it its the only way pebble''s can tell it's me on the water

[MudPumper]

Does it look anything like this???
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1653Roost1.JPG

[Taylorman]

Yes it does except the spray is on the other side.
I checked and the bolts do not go into the bowl.
Also looks kinda like this picture
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161untitled2.bmp

[atxwrangler]

The inserts are held in by two bolts,huh,are the bolts sticking into the stream of water? :confused:

[Taylorman]

The insert is held in by one bolt and no its not in the water stream.

[jbone]

Taylorman,
Did you ever resolve this issue. I am having the same problem. I have a good rooster, but from the boat, it looks like it has a v in it.
Set back AT pump with AT droop snoot and Hyd Place Diverter.
J

[1slowboat]

Brazosjettin had the same problem, his reverse gate was in the spray just a little, when you look at the nozzle without the boat running it looked like the gate was up high enough,the reverse gate was above the nozzle,but with the boat moving out the (spray) comming out of the nozzle was catching the rev. gate... he kinda likes the(beaver) tail it makes though.. :D

[Duane HTP]

Please show us a picture of this "V-Tail", so we can understand what you are talking about. Duane HTP

[Taylorman]

These are the best picture i have. They were taken this weekend. As you can see its a real dirty looking rooster tail. I forgot to take a picture of it from inside the boat. Everyone that i was with this weekend said i have the most screwed up looking rooster tail they ever seen. Oldbuck said it looks like i have 5 different rooster tails in one. The boat still has a slight pull to the right. The only thing ive noticed that looks out of the ordinary is i can see water spraying out of the reverse bucket on the right side but not on the left. I had Charlief drive and i looked all around the pump to see if i could see what was happening on the pump. Nothing on the pump is dragging in the water. The only thing i see is water spraying out of the reverse bucket only on the right side. I made a new nozzle insert which blocks the reverse opening, and the problem goes away. I had Gary Snow look at it this morning and he could not see anything that he thought may cause this problem.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161DCP_5729.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161DCP_5734.JPG

[Devilman]

We've got a few pics also, Kevin, when you was throwin that tail. I'll sort through them this afternoon & post them for you, or e-mail them to you if you want. Lemme know, I'll be around. I don't recall if the split could be seen or not, but I'll check it out.

[Taylorman]

email them to me if you can. kevinvidrine@msn.com. had a great time this weekend.
thanks

[Devilman]

email them to me if you can. kevinvidrine@msn.com. had a great time this weekend.
thanks
10-4. Sort through them this evening when I get to the house, see if they'll do any good. You know, I never really noticed it until we watched you make those passes back & forth. If your luck is like mine, it'll probably be something minor & staring at you the whole time. You'll get it.... Taking the boat after work to drop the engine at Duane's today & then I'll get on the pics. Hoping for a fairly quick discovery... No problem on the pics & yer right, we had a blast this weekend!

[Taylorman]

Heres some more
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0237.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0238.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0239.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0241.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0242.JPG

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

Taylorman......last time I saw your boat you had alot of wedge in there. Maybe consider removing some of the wedge and see if it helps.
Omega

[Taylorman]

I have tried it with no wedge and its the same.

[ChetCapoli]

No droop, i have a straight AT snoot. Maybe chet can help me :D :D
Kevin
nope i cant help ya....besides......your on the right track with the snoot! :D :D That surely couldnt be the problem. WOW, you actually mentioned gary snow....you moonlighting now?? How much faster are you going now that you changed from the droop?? Just have to ask.
CHET

[Squirtin Thunder]

nope i cant help ya....besides......your on the right track with the snoot! :D :D That surely couldnt be the problem. WOW, you actually mentioned gary snow....you moonlighting now?? How much faster are you going now that you changed from the droop?? Just have to ask.
CHET
Damn the wife let you out again ???? :2purples:

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

nope i cant help ya....besides......your on the right track with the snoot! :D :D That surely couldnt be the problem. WOW, you actually mentioned gary snow....you moonlighting now?? How much faster are you going now that you changed from the droop?? Just have to ask.
CHET
There you go with that bull$hit chet!!!! Why do you always come in someones thread and bump your damn gums??? Where is your boat? How fast are you? Post them pics so we can see what YOUr working with!! I never get into the benchracing bs but you really been pi$$ing me off lately! Stay in the benchraching forum and leave us sane people alone dammit!!!!!!! Let the man try to fix his problem!!!! You jackass!!!!!

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Hey kevin, I see your tail is way different than it is in your signature! What did you change from then to now????

[Raskal]

Heres some more
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0237.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0238.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0239.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0241.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0242.JPG
i think you smoother water .like we got here in cal .
<i wish it was that nice around here >

[Taylorman]

Hey kevin, I see your tail is way different than it is in your signature! What did you change from then to now????
The tail in my signature is with my jet o vator, the new pics are with the american turbine diverter.
WOW, you actually mentioned gary snow....you moonlighting now??
Your such a cornhole chet. If you must know, i just happened to be in Gary Snows neighborhood and he offered to take a look at it for me. Super nice guy by the way.
Did i say Gary Snows neighborhood? lol inside joke

[sanger rat]

Try 8 degree's up. Look's like the nozzle is still in the water.

[Taylorman]

Here a few more. The third and fourth show the spary on the right side. They also show what a dirty looking rooster tail it is. Its not a pretty round tail like i had before.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161Taylormanroost1.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161Taylormanroost2.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161Taylormanroost3.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161Taylormanroost4.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161Taylormanroost5.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161Taylormanroost6.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161161DCP_5433.jpg

[LVjetboy]

A dirty rooster? :confused: :D
Not exactly sure what a dirty rooster is, does it slow you down...or if not who cares? If your "dirty" rooster slows you down then a bad thing, depending on your rooster show vs jet boat performance goals. So also an excessively high rooster for show at expense of performance may slow you down, dirty or no.
Performance aside, one thing I'd question for rooster tail cohesiveness is nozzle exit flow rotation. You've changed exit flow path components between your signature shot and recent, could any of those changes affect nozzle exit flow rotation?
jer

[Taylorman]

I changed from a one piece Berkeley bowl and jet a vator to a split dominator boln and amt diverter and straight snoot. Lets not get caught up in the terminoligy i use. That the best i can describe it. As you can see in the pictures its not a smooth round stream of water coming out. Its real choppy and uneven all over. Im more concerned about my steering pull to the right. Can't figure that out. The appearance of the rooster tail is also a concern. A rooster tail is for showing of anyway right, so why not have a nice looking tail. Mine is not, its real choppy. Just ask the 10 guys i was with this weekend. It looks like crap.

[matt1]

You had a berk "F" type jetavator I told you should have never sold it.

[Taylorman]

Your right. I want it back. Hey, i need another one of those check valves. Can you get me one?

[CMZRACING]

Well Guess What? My Buddy Moparjet Says Mine Is Doing The Same Thing. When Looking Back It Dosent Look Like A Firehose Stream, It Just Has A Funny Shape, Not Sure Whats Going On. My Current Set Up On The Pump Is A Jg With Split Droop And A Bushwhacker Diverter. Let Me Know If You Hear Anything..

[Jake W2]

What size is the incert in the diverter.
Jake

[Taylorman]

What size is the incert in the diverter.
Jake
3.125
Oldbuck, greaser, devilman, and charlief all saw it this weekend. Can you 4 guys please describe what my rooster tail looks like since i can't come up with better terminology than dirty to describe it.

[Duane HTP]

Taylorman, I was just thinking if you had a few days when your not using your boat, you could take the unit off and send it to me. I'll put it on my boat and run it, and see if I can help you. That's the only way I know to help you without being able to drive or see the boat run. I'll do that if you want.

[Taylorman]

I'll take you up on that. I'll see what i have the next few weeks.
Thanks for the offer

[charlie f]

Taylorman...
The best way to describe your roostertail would be choppy and flat on top,
it looks like it is airated ( too much air and turbulance at the end of the nozzle) not a smooth flow, thus at the top of the roostertail it is not a steady stream of water it has the V and then flattens. Another comment is that it looks like it is spitting out not a steady flow.
Possibly air is getting into the bowl area. Did you check the intake grate, bowl gasket, and all nozzle connections for any leakage?
From all the pictures yo have an awful lot of turburlance at the back of the boat behind the transom, in comparison to your signature picture.
Good Luck

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Taylorman...
The best way to describe your roostertail would be choppy and flat on top,
it looks like it is airated ( too much air and turbulance at the end of the nozzle) not a smooth flow, thus at the top of the roostertail it is not a steady stream of water it has the V and then flattens. Another comment is that it looks like it is spitting out not a steady flow.
Possibly air is getting into the bowl area. Did you check the intake grate, bowl gasket, and all nozzle connections for any leakage?
From all the pictures yo have an awful lot of turburlance at the back of the boat behind the transom, in comparison to your signature picture.
Good Luck
That sounds logical........

[sdba069]

Hey Taylorman..... After some thought, I wonder.... Maybe the radical upturn at the end of the AT snoot is disrupting the out flow of water. Also, the absence of a divider plate in the snoot is increasing the turbulence at the nozzle, i.e. the exiting water doesn't have a chance to straighten itself out before it exits. i don't believe it's the diverter. I told you what i thought of that style AT snoot. Since you are sorta stuck with that AT style nozzle setup, I would try their droop with the divider and see what happens. If you can get Ron to let you try one, since you are having these problems, that would be the simplest way to try to fix it. i do believe that it probably hurting the performance a little since it seems to be shooting out in multiple directions. Also, the way I figure it, you have about 9.5* of up nozzle in it. No way can that be a good thing, unless you are more interested in the height of the roost. remember the angle on your ride plate also. It was actually down to the angle of your shoe. I recommend, as a starting point, to run a straight edge along the shoe and ride plate back past the anchor point on the bowl. Where the plate bolts to the saddle, I would pull the plate up to where there is about .100" between the ride plate and the straight edge. Good luck and let me know how it turns out. That was good of Duane to offer to help out like that.

[Devilman]

3.125
Oldbuck, greaser, devilman, and charlief all saw it this weekend. Can you 4 guys please describe what my rooster tail looks like since i can't come up with better terminology than dirty to describe it.
Looks like Garry & Duane may have nailed the problem, but I would've said your tail looks all busted up instead of a concentrated stream. Something interrupting the flow of the water, causing it to break up....

[oldbuck40]

Taylorman...
The best way to describe your roostertail would be choppy and flat on top,
it looks like it is airated ( too much air and turbulance at the end of the nozzle) not a smooth flow, thus at the top of the roostertail it is not a steady stream of water it has the V and then flattens. Another comment is that it looks like it is spitting out not a steady flow.
Possibly air is getting into the bowl area. Did you check the intake grate, bowl gasket, and all nozzle connections for any leakage?
From all the pictures yo have an awful lot of turburlance at the back of the boat behind the transom, in comparison to your signature picture.
Good Luck turbulance at the back!!! hey kevin or any of you guys that were there who has a picture of my boat while we were underway? i would like to compare the two... look at how deep and flat your boat is riding,,just seems to sit too low for the speed we were running????

[sdba069]

Too much wedge. Pinching the tail.

[charlie f]

Oldbuck.....
Were you able to open the pictures that I sent?

[oldbuck40]

Oldbuck.....
Were you able to open the pictures that I sent?sure did and i sent them to esabataj but he cant open them up,,maybe too large all those at one time! send him just a few and see what happens.
Hey Garry did you get my e-mail?

[Taylorman]

Here is the best picture i have to date of the boat running. Looks like the tail is running pretty wet. Of course this is probably at about 45 mph which is not to fast.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161100_0242.JPG

[pops1]

[QUOTE=sdba069]QUOTE]Gary- Whats Up- Will You be at Waco. We have had a rush of Hot Parts for it. Dave
This Year has been a record of underloaded pumps. Damage causecd by this condition has been way up. We have never seen the wild break-thru of delivered power in H.P & Torque as in the past Two Years. I am now telling a lot of callers with what sounds like load problems to light paint spray the Impellers, make a pass or two and see if Cavatation marks show. Mag Bronze or Stainless Steel will not show this in short periods. Yet what we are seeing and hearing is guys running max RPMs on Impellers that Top Fuel Boats cannot run, and they are calling up wanting bigger yet. Hand Hole Covers blowing with solid backing plates, blown suctions & bowls, are always the end item of Implosion. An "A" impeller works on 1300/1500 HP @ 140s and some are running minus back cuts on these- You will not get a 900 HP Motor to run a "AA" or "AAA" cut. Now with this I will exclude the Outlaw Crews as these 900 and 1000 ft Race Program take a complete different and approach, Also the Gear Box guys.
A lot of what I see being ran also indicates that smooth flow has not been a consideration in the thought process. You cannot run water in a flow line and then throw a 5 or 7 degree abrupt angle change at it. Water will crash into side walls before it re-directs itself while the oncomming water further crashes into the now turbulent condition established. Just A thought.

[Taylorman]

[QUOTE=sdba069]QUOTE]Gary- Whats Up- Will You be at Waco. We have had a rush of Hot Parts for it. Dave
This Year has been a record of underloaded pumps. Damage causecd by this condition has been way up. We have never seen the wild break-thru of delivered power in H.P & Torque as in the past Two Years. I am now telling a lot of callers with what sounds like load problems to light paint spray the Impellers, make a pass or two and see if Cavatation marks show. Mag Bronze or Stainless Steel will not show this in short periods. Yet what we are seeing and hearing is guys running max RPMs on Impellers that Top Fuel Boats cannot run, and they are calling up wanting bigger yet. Hand Hole Covers blowing with solid backing plates, blown suctions & bowls, are always the end item of Implosion. An "A" impeller works on 1300/1500 HP @ 140s and some are running minus back cuts on these- You will not get a 900 HP Motor to run a "AA" or "AAA" cut. Now with this I will exclude the Outlaw Crews as these 900 and 1000 ft Race Program take a complete different and approach, Also the Gear Box guys.
A lot of what I see being ran also indicates that smooth flow has not been a consideration in the thought process. You cannot run water in a flow line and then throw a 5 or 7 degree abrupt angle change at it. Water will crash into side walls before it re-directs itself while the oncomming water further crashes into the now turbulent condition established. Just A thought.
So how does all this related to my Oldsmobile turning 4900 rpms? Not being a smart a**, just trying to related my problem to what you said.
Thanks

[sdba069]

Don't pay the ransom, he has escaped. Pops1, that is.

[Duane HTP]

Okay, Send me everything from the bowl back.