i need some help with tuning

[dave186]

i took my boat out and ran it a bit today, tried to take it easy for the most part. but i got on it once for a bit and my headers got red hot! it was dusk so it was more obvious but they did get hot! im not running water either so that doesnt help. doesnt this indicate that my timing is retarded? i went up 5 steps on the jets and im pretty sure its rich. my timing pointer broke off and i dont have a clue where to get a new one, cause it bolts on to the motor mount plate.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

You must find top dead center and fabicate a new pointer. I've even cut the head off a timing cover bolt and ground it to a point and installed a jam nut. You can't guess about timing, it's important. Budlight

[dave186]

what about valve adjustment? in what way would that affect this?

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Valve timing has no effect on dist timing. one is electrical and the other is mechanical Budlight

[dave186]

yes, i understand that let me re word my question. would the valve adjustment have any affect on my headers glowing?

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Nope

[Jake W2]

If you are not running water through them they get dam hot how far up were they glowing?
Jake

[dave186]

not past the bend right out of the heads. the part i dont get is why a couple were glowing a lot more than others. I have my water lines now, i just need to plumb them in.

[berk]

no worries brAhttp://www.eagleracing.ca/Forum/files/warming_up.jpg

[dave186]

ok, im not so worried now. but my headers are too close to the paint to do that!

[Squirtin Thunder]

Dave,
What is your cam timing ??? Did you get a early 429 timing set or a late model 460 set ??? Glowing headers are a sign of not enough timing or too rich. So step the jets back on the carb to stock setup. What power valve are you running ??? Did you check the vacuum to see if that is the right power valve for your application ??? I don't remember the cam you have so I am totally guessing here. Where the headers the same color as the block ??? How much oil pressure do you get and are you running a stock pump ??? Is it steady or does it wave at you ??? I am happy for you.
Jim

[dave186]

ok, i tried to mess around with this thing today and now i have 0 oil pressure. yesterday it had 60 at idle. i pulled the distributor and spun the pump with a drill, nothing on the gauge but when i stoped i could hear oil draining back into the pan. i pulled the sensor out of the port and oil came out but not like it did before. im pretty sure i got a bottom end problem.
im never building a motor again.

[Hallett19]

ok, i tried to mess around with this thing today and now i have 0 oil pressure. yesterday it had 60 at idle. i pulled the distributor and spun the pump with a drill, nothing on the gauge but when i stoped i could hear oil draining back into the pan. i pulled the sensor out of the port and oil came out but not like it did before. im pretty sure i got a bottom end problem.
im never building a motor again.
Dont give up that easy, building motors is easy .... usually. My second time building my 460 I have been pretty succesfull so far, welcome to the joys of owning a boat :D

[Squirtin Thunder]

ok, i tried to mess around with this thing today and now i have 0 oil pressure. yesterday it had 60 at idle. i pulled the distributor and spun the pump with a drill, nothing on the gauge but when i stoped i could hear oil draining back into the pan. i pulled the sensor out of the port and oil came out but not like it did before. im pretty sure i got a bottom end problem.
im never building a motor again.
Dave give me a call !!!
Jim
928-704-1158

[Rexone]

Headers glowing red especially in low light situation is fairly normal and not necessarily a sign of a problem.

[dave186]

the headers glowing, im pretty much not concerned about at this point. i hooked up the water lines so its not an issue any more.
now i need to find out where my oil pressure went. anyone have any ideas, im not hearing any knocking from the motor, but im not gonna go run it with no oil pressure to find out. i have a cheap wal mart oil filter on it for break in and was thinking maybe its a POS but when i spun the pump with a drill it seemed to have no load on it. i could also hear oil draining back into the pan. could someone explain the oiling system on these BBFs?

[Squirtin Thunder]

the headers glowing, im pretty much not concerned about at this point. i hooked up the water lines so its not an issue any more.
now i need to find out where my oil pressure went. anyone have any ideas, im not hearing any knocking from the motor, but im not gonna go run it with no oil pressure to find out. i have a cheap wal mart oil filter on it for break in and was thinking maybe its a POS but when i spun the pump with a drill it seemed to have no load on it. i could also hear oil draining back into the pan. could someone explain the oiling system on these BBFs?
Dave,
You should call. It almost sounds like your drill is going the wrong way :idea:

[NELSON#109]

i too think ur turning the pump the wrong way... wont hurt anything, but try it both ways for a minute n see what happens. ive run my boats with dry headers at night and they are bright orange... timing at 36 degrees. they are glowin with them running fat or lean.

[dave186]

not turning the drill the wrong way, i tried it both ways. something is messed up in there, i just dont know what.

[Squirtin Thunder]

not turning the drill the wrong way, i tried it both ways. something is messed up in there, i just dont know what.
Gosh darn it Dave !!! Pull the pan, change the pump and screen. While the pan is off pull the front timing cover, check all little oil galley plugs and don't forget the one behind the distributor shaft.
Jim

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Just for the heck of it, I'd pull a main bearing cap or 2 to check for wear signs. I rebuilt the diesel in my truck (84 ford) and it propmtly wiped out most of my lower end bearings on the ring-seating process the first drive. Leakage from excessive gaps at my bearings is eating up all my oil flow to generate any decent pressure. I'm replacing all my main & rod bearings tomorow. Don't give up on DIY, my 454 rebuild in my Taylor SS is breaking in beautifully.

[dave186]

the pump and pickup are new, im thinking it has to be a plug or something somewhere. cause it didnt make any abnormal noises, not that i would be able to hear them over the exhaust anyway, and it just happened suddenly. i plan on pulling it on wednesday and seeing what is going on. even if one bearing was completly gone, i would still have some pressure right? hell, maybe i forgot to tighten the oil pump bolts. :hammerhea

[dave186]

while we are talking about BBF oiling, what is the little tower looking thing with two plugs in it in the lifter valley?

[bottom feeder]

Dave:
If you need a hand pm me or call at work 208-887-3428. Allways willing to help a fellow boater.
Best regards
Brian

[dave186]

thanks for the offer man, i got some stuff to do this morning then im going to borrow the boom truck from work again and yank it out. its all ready, just gotta pull the motor mount bolts.

[dave186]

ok, i have the motor out and hanging from the boom truck. i pulled the pan before i put it on the stand because i was to anxious to find out whats going on and nothing seems wrong in the bottom end. i havent pulled any bearing caps but im pretty sure they arent whats going on here. i pulled the timing cover and checked all the plugs and they were fine. my next step was to hold a bucket of oil up to the pickup and then spin the pump with a drill. oil comes gushing out somewhere above the crank around the back two cylinders. it seems like way to much volume of oil to be a dead cam bearing, are there any plugs up in that area or something? i guess i will have to tear deeper inside. also, i didnt find anything in the oil pan or any bearing material in the filter.

[Squirtin Thunder]

ok, i have the motor out and hanging from the boom truck. i pulled the pan before i put it on the stand because i was to anxious to find out whats going on and nothing seems wrong in the bottom end. i havent pulled any bearing caps but im pretty sure they arent whats going on here. i pulled the timing cover and checked all the plugs and they were fine. my next step was to hold a bucket of oil up to the pickup and then spin the pump with a drill. oil comes gushing out somewhere above the crank around the back two cylinders. it seems like way to much volume of oil to be a dead cam bearing, are there any plugs up in that area or something? i guess i will have to tear deeper inside. also, i didnt find anything in the oil pan or any bearing material in the filter.
I believe there are three around the cam !!!
I will check and be right back !!!

[Squirtin Thunder]

Dave,
There are two behind the cam. But we need to talk !!!
Thanks
Jim
928-704-1158

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Ummmmm Don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier ... but ...........
Your spinning the oil pump with the drill .... do you have one of those special drives that blocks off the oil passage feeding the distributor bushings?
If not, a LOT of oil just pours out of the block right through the distributor gallery past your oil pump drive rod and you can't possibly pump enough to get any oil pressure to measure.

[dave186]

well, it had plenty of pressure before when i spun it with the drill.
jim, what do you mean behind the cam? i looked at another block i have laying around and only saw two on the front and two on the back. i will call you tommorow if i have time, maybe at lunch.

[Squirtin Thunder]

well, it had plenty of pressure before when i spun it with the drill.
jim, what do you mean behind the cam? i looked at another block i have laying around and only saw two on the front and two on the back. i will call you tommorow if i have time, maybe at lunch.
I have never had a problem with it when spinning for presure or prelube. Do you have the right plugs in it ??? There are flat ones and there are tapered ones. Sorry the ones I am talking about are on the back side.