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View Full Version : I Have A Question...You Be The Judge



Doug The Jeweler
01-15-2002, 04:20 PM
About 6 months ago I sold a 900 hp motor to a guy who is very nice.He got the motor and was very happy with his purchase price of $7000.00 The engine was used but had been machined and ready for reassembly .The crank had been welded up due to previous damage.I had assembled and run the motor 1 time before we completely rebuilt.It detonated the bearing at an idle due to some bad gas.We took apart the motor and sent the crank to a shop to be polished and checked for straitness.It passed with flying colors.Last week he calls me and tells me that the crank is no good and wants me to split the cost of a new crank ($1600.00)At first I agreed even though I had already spent his money and didn't have it to give to him this month but after talking to the engine builder and the crank shop the both tell me it was in good shape when I sent it to him.I don't know anything about cranks and rely on experts.I want to believe this guy when he says that he hasn't put it together in 6 months but what do I do.What would you do?I am honest but I don't want to be taken advantage of.If this was your delima what would you do.Please Help
[This message has been edited by Doug The Jeweler (edited January 15, 2002).]

future boater
01-15-2002, 04:26 PM
have him email you some pics and inspect them. or have him send you the crank take it to your engine builder and look at it together. from there you can make a judgement on whether it was caused from the problem you had. just an idea! good luck with your dilemna...

Slick
01-15-2002, 04:27 PM
Don't mean to be a shit, but do the words "Sold As Is" mean anything? It's like buying an electrical part for your car from the dealer. Once you walk out the door, it's yours.

RiverDave2
01-15-2002, 04:27 PM
Doug if you already told him you would split the costs then that makes it a difficult decison.. If you hadn't said those words it would be alot easier to tell him no.. That's what I would do either way if your experts are saying it's fine. If you do end up paying him get the crank back and make sure it's the same one..
RD

rivercrazy
01-15-2002, 04:37 PM
Did you tell him what condition the crank was in before you sold it to him?
If so, there is a saying called "let the buyer beware".

HavasuBarney
01-15-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Doug The Jeweler:
split the cost of a new crank ($2600.00)At first I agreed even though I had already spent his money and didn't have it to give to him this month but
I want to believe this guy when he says that
I am honest but ...
Do not allow others to let you off the hook, it is your honesty that is at stake here and you stated you were honest.
If you want to believe him, do it.
You all ready agreed to pay.
Does not mater if he is telling the truth or not, follow through simply because YOU SAID YOU WOULD. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif

spectras only
01-15-2002, 04:52 PM
Doug ,you sold him an item "as is",period!You're honest to help him out, ask him to go to your builder with you ,maybe the builder has some ID mark on the shaft to recognize it if it's his.I'm not accusing anyone ,but swaps happened before.
[This message has been edited by spectras only (edited January 15, 2002).]

Doug The Jeweler
01-15-2002, 04:59 PM
I agreed to split the cost before the question came up was it assembled and ran since he has had it.Both the engine builder and the crank shop (Total custom crank shop)said that he must of assembled it as it was in good shape when it was sent to him.I agreed to split the cost based on his information only before I did some investegation on my own and Before I knew the facts about the condition of the crank crank.

RiverDave2
01-15-2002, 05:16 PM
It would sound to me as if you've already made up your mind as to what you plan on doing.
RD

Doug The Jeweler
01-15-2002, 05:29 PM
I have not made up my mind even if it sounds like it.I am on the fence as what to do.

126driver
01-15-2002, 05:44 PM
If I was to buy an unassembled engine it would be contingent on everything being magged and checked out first. If the parts are good, my dime; if not, your dime, agreed upon up front. Wouldn't you want to know for sure before you spent the time and dough to assemble it anyways? If the seller doesn't want to agree to that, later. Much. In light of that, it would be the buyer's bad IMO, but like some have said, you already agreed to pay for half so you should stick to it. Sucks though, we all know that cranks can crack if dropped or knocked over. How is the crank bad? Says who? Like spectras only said, run it back to your guy to have a look at first.
I don't know you, but seems to me that you have integrity if you're running this past people here on the boards before you make your final decision. Good luck.

DMB
01-15-2002, 06:19 PM
First what kind of crank is it callies,crower,billet, non twist forged.
The reason I ask is $2600.00 about $1000.00 to much for a 900 hp crank, for $1500 to $1800 you can buy a bad ass crank capable of handling 900 or better.
As far as were your responsibilitie lies it depends on how you presented the deal, but usually used performance parts are as is,
Taillight warranty, the minute you can no longer see there tail lights when they drive away warranty expired.
As far as telling him you would split the cost before you really knew for shure, that was your only mistake,but we dont alway give the correct response in situations like these.
You are the only one that has to be okay with whatever your decision is,but do yourself a favor #1 find out what kind of crank it is,#2 have it checked and shop around if you decide to split the cost.

Doug The Jeweler
01-15-2002, 06:33 PM
It is a Ford 514 Stroker crank

racingrascal
01-15-2002, 07:27 PM
No matter what you decide to do. If you do pay for half then pay for half of a used crank. Did he buy a new crank from you? No. So find a used one and pay for half of that cost if in fact you do pay for half.
Andy

Racing Ray
01-15-2002, 07:47 PM
.
[This message has been edited by Racing Ray (edited March 12, 2002).]

Cole
01-15-2002, 07:50 PM
I agree with DMB,it all depends on how you represented the deal.The fact that you clearly said that it was welded up and unusembled then he had the responsibility to have all the parts checked and magged.I disagree with the other posts on if you agreed to pay.If there is fraud on representation of the crank after you sold it, and you can prove it,then you have a case.He might be thinking that its $2600 for a crank,and he doesn't have the money,what do i do?? Well lets see if we can hit ol doug for some bucks.It sounds to me that you represented the motor as a as is deal,besides if this motor was 900 hp,was this a blower motor, and what was included???? anyway this is my thought if he is trying to screw you ... goodluck Cole http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

Costello
01-15-2002, 08:00 PM
This may beside the point, but for a 900 hp engine, I can't see running a $2600 crankshaft. Chevy 5140 cranks hold up well under similar power. Any 4340 crankshaft would work fine IMO, and for a bunch less money. I mean is a $2600 repaired crank worth a new $2600 crank, does it have the same metallurgical integrity? I think not. You said you'd help him pay for a new crank, howabout one of adequate strength at a fraction of the price? The low end 4340 stuff is rated for 750 hp and there is a ton of Cover Your Ass in that rating.

Doug The Jeweler
01-15-2002, 08:18 PM
I think the idea to split the cost of a used crank seems fair.The guy lives on the east coast and I live on the west coast.I don't know the people who has inspected the crank.I think I now a fair way to satisfy me.I'll have him send me the crank and if it is really in the condition he says it is and it hasn't been polished or turned (I still have all the specs on the motor and crank)If it is then I will send him $500.00 which is about 1/2 of what a good used crank cost.If it has been changed in any way then he is responsible for the trip back home or I will junk it.Seem Fair or do you think I should reject his request altogether.
PS I meant to say $1600.00 for a new crank.TYPO
[This message has been edited by Doug The Jeweler (edited January 15, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Doug The Jeweler (edited January 15, 2002).]

Doug The Jeweler
01-15-2002, 08:29 PM
You know what gripes me the most is after looking at a photostastic copy of his check it has been 6 months since I sold him this engine.It seems my obligation should end somewhere.He should have had it tested himself immediately not after 6 months
[This message has been edited by Doug The Jeweler (edited January 15, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Doug The Jeweler (edited January 15, 2002).]

DMB
01-15-2002, 08:45 PM
Six months? I dont think anyone would take it back new or used.
If it were me I would investigate a little, but more than likely end up telling him to kiss my ass.
[This message has been edited by DMB (edited January 15, 2002).]

LakesOnly
01-15-2002, 09:48 PM
DtJ,
I can sympathize with your situation.
My shop warrants our mechanical repairs for sixty days (most shops are just thirty). And this is a professional shop; not a person-to-person private party sale such as your transaction. Six months is a ridiculously long time for a "comeback" under any circumstances.
I completley understand your conscience testing you over your spontaneous commitment to split the cost of the repair. But let me ask you this: would you later regret handing over all that cash now that you are considering all the other factors in this situation? Which feeling is worse?
Hey man, you can say "no" at the altar if you want--if you now realize that it's not the proper thing afterall.
A good friend of mine picked up a tunnel hull with a 454 in it. He took it straight home and started it up again. Rod knock! He called the owner the VERY NEXT DAY. The guy flowed my buddy $800 back.
What if he called him SIX MONTHS later (even if the boat just sat)?
If I was the purchaser of your deal and six months had past, I might let you know about it but I personally wouldn't expect you to owe me anything after that duration of time.
Good luck to you.

bajaruner
01-15-2002, 09:59 PM
He saw it, he bought it, he built it, he ran it, he did who knows what with it, and six month later want's some kind of warrenty? He can eat it. I'm sorry this might sound a little harsh but where talking about the sale of used parts to a second owner, no shop in the world will warrenty,
compensate or help out on a high performance part that's been repaired and sold to a second owner, why should you??

126driver
01-16-2002, 08:03 AM
Yeah, good points. Six months later? The guys got balls to even be asking you to pay.
Scott

waterndog
01-16-2002, 08:37 AM
I have to agree, after 6 months. Sounds like it becomes the buyers responsibility. I know he says it was disassembled but come on. I don't think there is any new motors that come with that kind of guarantee, especially 900hp motors. to bad so sad.
[This message has been edited by waterndog (edited January 16, 2002).]

058
01-16-2002, 09:55 AM
Doug, Six months is crazy. You don't know what he has done in those six months, maybe he ran it without oil, detonated the engine, spun it to 9K or even assembled the engine in the dirt. You don't know if he even washed all the parts upon assembly, Too many things beyond your control, tell him to F*ck off, but thats JMO.

Doug The Jeweler
01-16-2002, 10:13 PM
This is what my decision is and the E-mail that I sent him.This guy was very patient with getting the motor and I will split the cost of a used crank ($500.00)after I see the old one.Thanks for all your feedback on the subject.The bottom line is I gave my word and this decision makes me feel the best in my conscience.
Hi Kevin,
Your point is a valad one too.I have not made up my mind about this until
now.If you send me the crank and it has no damage or change to the specs of
the crank,I will split the cost of a used crank up to $500.00.If it has been
used or broken in shipment or since you have had the crank then you pay for
its return or you can decide to scrap it.I alwasy said you were a very nice
person or I would have no problem just saying no.If you would have found out
about the damage at the time you got it I would have replaced it or we could
have put in a shipping claim to replace it.Like I said I had no idea it had
any damaged or you would have never got it in the first place.I hope this
meets with your approval if it does send it to me ... Doug
Send it to:

HavasuBarney
01-17-2002, 12:23 AM
Damn I am glad when I find out I associate with guys like you Doug, that is a very cool move.
What I like more than anything, I think your doing the right for the right reasons, right on!
So many reason to let yourself off the hook, your a good man Doug. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif

Skaterfast
01-17-2002, 12:30 PM
Sold a 2.4 Merc outboard a couple of years ago.Did a compresion check in front of the buyer.Saw him a year later and he said the motor lasted 1 hour.Why didn't he call me? Because he knew.As is.As is.As is.As is.

DogHouse
01-17-2002, 06:39 PM
Doug, interesting situation you have, especially since I am currently on the other side of just such a situation! I bought a bunch of "freshly machined, ready to assemble" stuff last year from a guy/shop in Ohio. When I measured the block prior to assembly, I found that it needed a line bore, so the guy was willing to spare me the couple hundred bucks I owed him for shipping at that point and call it square. This year, I've pulled the motor out to fix an oil pressure problem and it turns out that the crank has developed some cracks, either because it was cracked to start with (I didn't have it mag'd) or because his balance job was insufficient. Either way, I didn't even call him because I know it's my problem now... Yeah, sucks to be me but I will just call it a lesson learned the hard way and move on. Doesn't seem to me that you owe your buyer anything at this point! You're a stand-up guy for helping him out so chalk one up to charity. Maybe you can write it off your taxes this year!
My $0.02,
-Brian