Please educate me gearheads.

[Sportin' Wood]

I know very little about boats when it comes to modifications. Ask me about Rock crawling and I will talk your ear off.( we don't do much to the motors)
Heres the deal. For the last 7 years I have been running the hell out of our 1978 20 SS Hallett with no more then maintenece twice a year. I have been real happy with the boats performence and realiability. Get in and go. I am the second owner.
The best the boat has ever done is 62mph ( hand held GPS) on perfect water in early May on a cold morning.( No fuel and two skinny guys) It is running a 454 with logs and an intake and thats about it. I have a 12JC A pump with a diverter.
This is where I am at. After 7 years the boat is starting to show wear. The motor has never been rebuilt.( I am friends with original owner) I would be surprised if it does 55MPH. It does not seem to spin the RPM's like it used to but I could be wrong.
I would like to start preparing for a motor and pump rebuild this winter and do not have a clue where to start. Should I rebuild or replace the motor what should I do to the pump? I would like to go faster of course but do not wish to sacrifice the ability to run it hard all day at the lake.( maybe throw more cubic inches at it?)
I have read that converting the JC to a split bowl is good but don't have a clue what this means. Please educate me about this crap. I figure I have 6 months to learn. Site suggestions, books or mags would be great as well.
I would not be doing the work myself, I have learned to let pro's do what they do best but I need to know what it is there doing. With that being said Opinions on vendors would be great also. I am in so cal.( I will pull it all and replace it)
Thanks guys.
Jeff

[berk]

here ya go! http://www.greenwoodchevy.com/engine15.htm

[Sportin' Wood]

here ya go! http://www.greenwoodchevy.com/engine15.htm
thanks Berk. That was my first idea, but Knowing little about boats the thought of setting it up for marine use sounded spendy. They run in the $12,000 range turn key I believe. What do you have to do to it for marine use?
572 :cool:

[steelcomp]

Typically it's a matter fo money. IMO, the first thing you should do (unless you have an open budget) is set a spending limit, and do your absolute best to stick with it. The beauty of factory packages is that they were designed as a package. Componants that work together efficiently and effectively. If you want more performance out of your motor, you should be willing to compliment the rest of your package accordingly. The more you need to change, obviously the more it costs, but I think an all too common mistake is that guys dump their whole budget on, say, the motor, but don't do anything to their pump or hardware, and lose 50% of their potential gain.
Here's some options.
Do a mild performance rebuild on your motor. Cam kit including rocker upgrade, intake, carb, ignition, exhaust. Those things will give you more basic improvement than anything. Have your motor balanced as well. That's a must. With that, have your pump rebuilt in the same manner. Tighten up clearances, maybe detail your impeller. I don't know what kind of hardware you can take advantage of on a bigger boat like yours, but maybe a better loader.
Option 2.
A better rebuild on your motor. Maybe a head change, full roller rockers, bigger cam (hyd. roller) better exhaust, and again, intake and carb to match heads and cam. Piston and rod upgrade would be in order as well. Then you can do a little more to your pump to compliment...bluprint, fully prepped impeller, bowl flowed, if a droop works, then add that, and a ride plate if that works on a bigger boat. or trim tabs.
You see where I'm going with this.
You can go stroker kit. More cubic inches, more power...definately more money. You can supercharge, fuel inject, you can set your pump back, fully prepped stainless impeller, inducer, etc. and spend all your money!!
But the idea is to make the changes across the board, not just in one area. If you have a budget, you know how much you can spend on one and still have a little to spend on the other, and not get carried away, and run out ofd money before you really finish the poroject. That's a nice boat and it would be nice to see it done right.
Good luck!!

[Sportin' Wood]

Thanks Steelcomp,
I plan on doing the whole package, motor and pump. As far as a budget I have no idea? I have been kicking around just buying a bigger newer boat, but this one is paid for and anyone can buy a newer bigger boat.
So budget is something I need to work into all this. At this point I have no idea what anything costs or is the " hot" set up. I do know that I like my boat and want it to be done right.
I know I can get to $10-$15,000 real quick. I just built a Jeep that went twice what I had in the budget.
Bottom line is that I want to have piece of mind when I haul my kids and wife up to the basin on Mohave mid week that I will make it home.
Another thing I want is to get rid of the log's. I have had crappy luck with them leaking.

[steelcomp]

That said, I think I'd go with the first option, and KISS. (keep it simple, sam)
You can have a smooth, nice sounding, good economy, reliable cruiser that, if you could do 60 before, you might get another 8-10 mph out of it, and be as reliable as the day is long, and never have to worry about getting your fam back safe and sound, and I imagine you could do a nice job of it for well under 10K.

[LVjetboy]

"It does not seem to spin the RPM's like it used to but I could be wrong. I would like to start preparing for a motor and pump rebuild this winter and do not have a clue where to start. Should I rebuild or replace the motor what should I do to the pump? I would like to go faster of course but do not wish to sacrifice the ability to run it hard all day at the lake.( maybe throw more cubic inches at it?)"
Pump problems typically mean more rpm’s not less. Engine problems, less rpm. So, if you running less rpm's than before...well, most likely the engine. Of course you mentioned you're not sure. So who knows?
Steel's right about performance. A matter of money. But my advise to you a bit different. I think first, seriously and I mean seriously! consider what you really want. Peace of mind or reliability doesn't always mean low performance. Is the boat you have worth spending to reach your goals? I say seriously, because it's easy to spend money chasing something not meant to be. I've spent a lot of money on a boat that couldn't reach my goals just because that was my boat only to later finally figure out it wouldn't. If you're ok with mid-60's maybe 70 with $$$ in a 20' Hallet jet then stick with what you got. If not maybe consider another boat (even a different drive?) before spending big $$ trying to make it something it's not.
Clearly, you have some reason for wanting more than what you got. Not so clear is why you’re unhappy with what you have or what you really want. That makes a big difference. I’d suggest first taking time to consider the possibilities before committing to spending money for an engine and/or pump rebuild only to be disappointed with your hull and want more speed. Change not always easy to embrace…but once embraced enhances life's experience. And life’s too short. If you’d rather stick with what you got and improve performance then go with advice like Steels. For 70 you'll probably need 160+ more hp...about 500 true hp to the pump not rated hp as in Berks post. Matched with the right impeller, I think the engine Berk posted would get you there. Is that what you want?
jer

[Brooski]

Jeff, Steel laid it out pretty well. You can do a mild performance build on your engine which will get you more power, and be turn key to boot. Then have a one of the local reputable shops tune up the pump, and that boat will be good to go. You should be up to at least 65 and maybe a little more, without killing your wallet. Obviously, more power = more money.
I paid about $3,000 for the rebuild on my engine (468 Chevy). Its pumping out about 425hp, and is turn key and runs pump gas. In my Southwind, I have achieved 72mph so far, and I have not gone thru the pump yet. I upgraded the valve train, put a good manifold and ignition, and its good to go.
As for your question on the C bowl to split bowl, with the split bowl, you will have the ability to install wedges to angle up the nozzle, or install a droop on the back. That will allow you to adjust the angle of the boat more, possibly freeing up the boat in the water, which would give a little more speed.
I agree with the others, you need to set your budget first. I believe that for $5,000 or less, you can have a nice dependable set up that you would be happy with. Your boat rocks, I think its definitely worth the investment. Here is a pic of a JG, or split bowl, so you can see the difference from your bowl. The white portion is the added rooster booster.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1818Nelson_pump.jpg

[Red Horse]

If you do your pump first then you will see how bad you HAVE to do your engine. I did my pump first and found out my engine is not as strong as thought. Dropped 1000 rpms.
I would do lightning exhaust a roller rocker setup, cam and intake and have the heads done. Might even consider balanced rotating assembley for longevity.

[Beer-30]

As for the engine, I have found it is real hard to beat a crate motor these days.
Scroggins-Dickey has a ZZ454 / 440HP / Aluminum heads for $5700. The benefits are numerous, in my eyes. BRAND NEW block, BRAND NEW forged rotating assembly, roller cam. It even already has the new damper installed and an aluminum intake!
You are going to spend a minimum of $3K rebuilding the motor. The extra $2700 here gets you an already assembled motor that you can have sitting on the floor next to the boat. Swap all of your marine pieces over to it, and then just swap the motors. It is no too high a HP motor that you need to upgrade your exhaust. Sure, it will benefit from better headers, but you dont need to. Just put on the carb and ignition of your choice (or your old stuff, if it is good) and away you go! Warranty and all. Nice factory reliability.
The aluminum heads would be a nice upgrade to lighten the boat. I would put on a set of nice, taller valve covers and add roller rockers to make it full-roller. This would add another step of reliability and smoothness to the motor.
Basically, right around $6K would get you a great setup. Get it in and dialed, and then, the next season, do the pump the way you want it. This way, the boat is not down too long. With the crate motor, you can run it right up until the weekend that you want to change motors.

[Sportin' Wood]

Much good info guys thanks,
Tough call about getting something else, Might happen but I would most likely keep the Hallett, Ya never know? I really have fun at CBBB ;)
I like the idea of having a real clean old boat, I know that its not a hot rod and don,t plan on trying to make it something it is not. BUT, It sure is fun spanking the 21 foot store bought customs that cost $45,000. :D
I guess the "hey thats a nice boat" Has a lot to do with fixing up any thing that is old why else would we all want to do it? that plays a big part in choice of refreshining or selling. The boat is a lot of fun so regardless if I dump money into it or buy a newer model that might be more reliable I would keep the Hallett. $10,000 seems reasonable to spend if I could have another 7 years of fun with not much more then maintanece and gas. It is still far less then a new boat of any quality.
Sounds like I need to find a good shop that knows alot about jets and pick there brain with my wallet. Any suggestions?
What would have to be done to convert a 572 for marine use in a jet?
Anything?
Thanks guys for the help.
Roger long time no hear, how you guys been? CBBB is only like what 9 weeks away?
Jeff

[Blown 472]

"It does not seem to spin the RPM's like it used to but I could be wrong. I would like to start preparing for a motor and pump rebuild this winter and do not have a clue where to start. Should I rebuild or replace the motor what should I do to the pump? I would like to go faster of course but do not wish to sacrifice the ability to run it hard all day at the lake.( maybe throw more cubic inches at it?)"
Pump problems typically mean more rpm’s not less. Engine problems, less rpm. So, if you running less rpm's than before...well, most likely the engine. Of course you mentioned you're not sure. So who knows?
Steel's right about performance. A matter of money. But my advise to you a bit different. I think first, seriously and I mean seriously! consider what you really want. Peace of mind or reliability doesn't always mean low performance. Is the boat you have worth spending to reach your goals? I say seriously, because it's easy to spend money chasing something not meant to be. I've spent a lot of money on a boat that couldn't reach my goals just because that was my boat only to later finally figure out it wouldn't. If you're ok with mid-60's maybe 70 with $$$ in a 20' Hallet jet then stick with what you got. If not maybe consider another boat (even a different drive?) before spending big $$ trying to make it something it's not.
Clearly, you have some reason for wanting more than what you got. Not so clear is why you’re unhappy with what you have or what you really want. That makes a big difference. I’d suggest first taking time to consider the possibilities before committing to spending money for an engine and/or pump rebuild only to be disappointed with your hull and want more speed. Change not always easy to embrace…but once embraced enhances life's experience. And life’s too short. If you’d rather stick with what you got and improve performance then go with advice like Steels. For 70 you'll probably need 160+ more hp...about 500 true hp to the pump not rated hp as in Berks post. Matched with the right impeller, I think the engine Berk posted would get you there. Is that what you want?
jer
You forgot to mention the stickers you get too.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Jeff, Steel laid it out pretty well. You can do a mild performance build on your engine which will get you more power, and be turn key to boot. Then have a one of the local reputable shops tune up the pump, and that boat will be good to go. You should be up to at least 65 and maybe a little more, without killing your wallet. Obviously, more power = more money.
I paid about $3,000 for the rebuild on my engine (468 Chevy). Its pumping out about 425hp, and is turn key and runs pump gas. In my Southwind, I have achieved 72mph so far, and I have not gone thru the pump yet. I upgraded the valve train, put a good manifold and ignition, and its good to go.
As for your question on the C bowl to split bowl, with the split bowl, you will have the ability to install wedges to angle up the nozzle, or install a droop on the back. That will allow you to adjust the angle of the boat more, possibly freeing up the boat in the water, which would give a little more speed.
I agree with the others, you need to set your budget first. I believe that for $5,000 or less, you can have a nice dependable set up that you would be happy with. Your boat rocks, I think its definitely worth the investment. Here is a pic of a JG, or split bowl, so you can see the difference from your bowl. The white portion is the added rooster booster.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1818Nelson_pump.jpg
That pump looks killer;) Do I see a small wedge on top of that rooster booster??? Where are the rooster pics from that thing??
396

[BarryMac]

Jeff, Keep the Hallet it is a nice boat with a lot of History, put some money into the Motor and Pump, you wont be sorry...

[Sportin' Wood]

Jeff, Keep the Hallet it is a nice boat with a lot of History, put some money into the Motor and Pump, you wont be sorry...
I'm not selling, just trying to get some knowledge. Gonna have to get you guys up to our neck of the woods, I would love to trade you for a tour of the lower side of the river. Gonna have to try and make time to come down your way this year.
Any body else got an opinion?

[Mohavekid]

I'm kind of in the same situation, so I'll be following this thread.
I usually boat camp for a week or so when we go out so reliability is paramount. I don't mind wrenching on the boat at home, but vacation is for running.
I too want the extra pop from headers, but the logs are so easy & maintenance free, they're hard to beat. Plus they take less room than the headers and I'd like to keep the seating in it's current configuration.
I decided on a mild rebuild on the motor with just a cam, carb, Edelbrock air gap RPM manifold and MSD ignition to replace the old points distributer and some roller rockers. My motor guy says I should get about 450 HP at about 5k RPM wsith an Berk A impeller.

[steelcomp]

I think it would be a shame to dump that kind of a motor, and $$, into that boat. You'll have a lot of power, suck a lot of gas, make a lot of noise, but you really won't go "fast". I think you'd be disappointed, and realize later that with all that motor, you're rally no better off than you were with your mildly built original motor. Maybe a little faster, but no longer original. IMO, there's just something classy about one of those cruisers with all their original stuff, even if it's hopped up a little. There's history and heritage there.
If you want a hot rod that would really respond to something like that 572, you'd get more satisfaction from a real hot rod. You have a cruiser, and a nice one at that. Just my .02. :D

[Brooski]

Sounds like I need to find a good shop that knows alot about jets and pick there brain with my wallet. Any suggestions?
Thanks guys for the help.
Roger long time no hear, how you guys been? CBBB is only like what 9 weeks away?
Jeff
Been good Jeff. How was the party? Bet it was a blast. CBBB is coming up quick. Really lookin forward to hangin out with you guys again. And this year I WILL have my Southwind with me.
As for a good shop, MPD, or Marine Performance Designs does awesome pump work. I think they are in the OC. That crate motor mentioned above sounds good also. Easy no hassle swap.

[Brooski]

That pump looks killer;) Do I see a small wedge on top of that rooster booster??? Where are the rooster pics from that thing??
396
Yes, that thing is wedged big time. No pics of it yet. The boat belongs to Nelson 109, its on a cheetah tri hull. The engine took a crap on the maiden voyage. We will get pics when it hits the lakes again.

[Beer-30]

Yeah, I really wouldn't look at the 572 for that boat. A cruiser needs a cruiser motor. Either going through your existing motor or getting a 454 crate motor would really be the slick way to go. The crate motor, as I mentioned will only be a little more than you will spend on a rebuild, and all of your existing marine components are compatible. Plus, you have the luxury of having it sitting next to the boat instead of waiting a month or so for machine work and build-up.
In your application, either a 572 or 454 crate motor would just take the water fittings, pulleys, brackets, exhaust logs, flywheel/coupler that you already have. That's all it would take to marine it.