Marine's dad needs some info

[SniperDad]

When my Marine son was home from Iraq he bought a Jet Boat with a 454, Berkeley pump. The boat has been stored for three years, and was in good shape when put up.
I am quite familar with reviving the motor, but are there any things in particular I should do for the pump? I assume that I will need to have the boat in the water for the firing up, but what else?

[Aqua Boogie1]

Just make sure the water is hooked up. Some people say don't run the motor with the pump connected, some people say its ok as long as you don't run it for a long time. I never had a problem running the boat out of the water. So IMO...........Hook up the water hose............If he has headers, start boat first then turn on water. If not, then it doesnt matter. Let it run for a little bit then turn off. Now if there is headers, turn water off first then motor. Always worked for me and never had problems.............Just my .02. :cool:

[Squirtin Thunder]

If you take a look at these two impellers, you can see what dry starts do.
Impeller #1 - two days old, notice the groove and the cracks on the other side.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2311Rock_Damage_07-med.jpghttp://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2311Rock_Damage_08-med.jpghttp://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2311Rock_Damage_06-med.jpg
Impeller #2 - two years old, same grooves and cracks, enough chunking to kill engine at idle and starter not strong enough to turn engine over.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2311Chunk_of_Junk-med.jpghttp://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2311Chunking-med.jpghttp://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2311Groove-med.jpg
Wear Ring - if you look at the wear ring you will see strange markings on the surface, those are what you call heat marks, where the ring has gotten so hot it has almost welded itself to the impeller.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2311Rock_Damage_15-med.jpghttp://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2311Rock_Damage_16-med.jpg
So as you can see, it is very important that the impeller and wear ring are smothered in water, at start up and any sort of run time.
Good Luck
Jim

[9er]

Thunder's right about the dry start.
Now, along with running a cooling hose, I shove another in the end of the jet pump. Turn it on pretty high. Generally the hose won't make it anywhere near the impeller because of the bowl veins. So I don't worry about it getting chopped up. The water will pass through the bowl then the wear ring area lubricating and cooling the impeller before exiting out the intake.
Either way, I don't run it too long.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Thunder's right about the dry start.
Now, along with running a cooling hose, I shove another in the end of the jet pump. Turn it on pretty high. Generally the hose won't make it anywhere near the impeller because of the bowl veins. So I don't worry about it getting chopped up. The water will pass through the bowl then the wear ring area lubricating and cooling the impeller before exiting out the intake.
Either way, I don't run it too long.
If you read any of the header instructions, it says to run your engine to heat the headers after you pull it out of the water. That is what killed impeller #2.

[Aqua Boogie1]

If you read any of the header instructions, it says to run your engine to heat the headers after you pull it out of the water. That is what killed impeller #2.
Sorry, it seems as if you mis-read my instructions. The headers directions was not to heat them, It was so he wouldn't get any water lock. So turn on the motor and then turn on the water right after. So this is not to heat them. When I ran my motor w/o being in the lake, the water was hooked to the motor, as I did this water ran from the exhaust as well as the pump. So this lube the wear ring as well as cooled the motor. The motor was not ran for a long amount of time. So I guess it all depended on how you boat is set up. AGAIN, this was the way my boat worked.......................... :cool:

[Squirtin Thunder]

If you read any of the header instructions, it says to run your engine to heat the headers after you pull it out of the water. That is what killed impeller #2.
I mean the instructions that come with new headers from the factory.

[texas-19]

Their is 2 places to grease the pump at.The front bearing should have a grease fitting and also shine a flashlight through the nozzle and their should be another one in the center.I have a dominator so if this is wrong someone else can correct me.Mine only has one grease fitting in the bearing.
Also good advise is to back the boat into water before starting.You don't want to explain to your son what happened to his pump.

[GasGuzzler]

With header water valve set to kick in at 1500-2000 rpms, no water should enter headers when at idle. Idle the last few feet to the boat trailer and by the time you load the boat on trailer, the headers are dry anyways. That covers it...pumps in the water getting lubed, and headers are dry when you get r done. Then spray a bit of wd40 on the header tubes near the heads to prevent rust till you go back again.

[Aqua Boogie1]

I mean the instructions that come with new headers from the factory.
Oh......................My appoligizes!!!!! :2purples: :D

[Danhercules]

Berc pumps have two plugs on the outside on the bowl. Take em both out, and fill one with 90 wt till it comes out the other one. This is for the bushing in the rear of the pump.

[moneysucker]

If you read any of the header instructions, it says to run your engine to heat the headers after you pull it out of the water. That is what killed impeller #2.
Now why the hell would you do that? The headers are nice and warm when you pull the boat out. WTF were you/ they thinking?

[BigBlockBaja]

It would be nice to lock this thread at the top so when this same question comes up 82 times a year, it will be right there at the top..

[AZKC]

This horse has been rode a few times, huh :argue:

[American Turbine Man]

Before you take the boat out put about 15 pumps of grease in the thrust bearing. ATM

[Squirtin Thunder]

Sorry, it seems as if you mis-read my instructions. The headers directions was not to heat them, It was so he wouldn't get any water lock. So turn on the motor and then turn on the water right after. So this is not to heat them. When I ran my motor w/o being in the lake, the water was hooked to the motor, as I did this water ran from the exhaust as well as the pump. So this lube the wear ring as well as cooled the motor. The motor was not ran for a long amount of time. So I guess it all depended on how you boat is set up. AGAIN, this was the way my boat worked.......................... :cool:
Have you pulled your impeller to check it ???

[Squirtin Thunder]

Now why the hell would you do that? The headers are nice and warm when you pull the boat out. WTF were you/ they thinking?
Cy,
Bassett and Rewarder instructions say to heat your headers to remove any water and spray down with lubricant like WD40 to prevent rust. Now they are only selling headers. If you fire the boat dry or with a hose in the pump, attempting to lubricate the wear ring, chances are there is not enought lubrication and cooling properties to prevent gawling. There was another thread somewhere that touched on this. We are all guilty at some point in running the engine out of the water for a short period of time, be it 30 seconds or 3 minutes, the damage starts. And then it is a downhill slide over time. My recommendation, take it or leave it, is to shut the water off to the headers before getting to the trailer, so the headers will get nice and hot and remove all water. Then put it on the trailer and don't start it again til it back in the water.
Jim

[FILUCKY]

No water in the pipes under about 1500 RPM so let it idle on the trailer for a min. before you pull it out of the water. I also had a grease zirt instaled to lube the wear ring so i can pump 1 or 2 squirts into it then fire it. Just run it for a few seconds just to make sure the thing is going to run before i haul it all the way to the lake. Just changed out impeller do to sucking up a damn rock, and with a few years on it, was still in great shape(the wear ring part anyway.)

[cave]

SniperDad If you live near a lake the best thing to do is go there in the late evening (If its crowded all the time in the daylight) then put in the water and start her up. There isn't enough water to cool the entire surface of your wear ring from your water hose. It has to be submerged. I learn the hard way.
I do start the engine at the lake just before I launch just to make sure the motor starts. I don't run it I start it then shut er down.

[1978 Rogers]

So, is it OK to start the motor and run it on the trailer? :D

[cave]

:DI did run it on the trailer. Thats why I rebuilt the pump this past winter. Now I start it then shut it down. I dont run it like I used to like while I was being backed down to launch. :hammerhea :yuk: :notam: :D

[DeputyDawg]

1978 Rogers said--So, is it OK to start the motor and run it on the trailer?
Hell ya!! They rev like a Pro Stocker on the trailer and the chicks dig it :cool:

[Aqua Boogie1]

Have you pulled your impeller to check it ???
No Squirt..................I haven't and didn't. I sold the boat and the guy that has it now hasn't had problems with it. I was more concerned with the way I was blowing motors left and right. Need I say they were Olds. But I tell you what, when I do check on my jet, I will Pm you so you can help me if you don't mind???????? I did look at your pics to learn a thing or to. Im always down to learn something new............................... :cool:

[NELSON#109]

Ok, Im In A Hurry..and I Dont Have Time To Read All This... But Being A Former Jar Head Myself And A Former Resident Of Beutifull Iraq, Ill Say This.... If He Needs Any Parts, Tell Him To Send Me A Pm... Ill Give Him Anything I Have, And I Do Still Have A Good Enventory Of Berk And Chevy Parts... Nelson#109

[steelcomp]

It's funny all the problems I hear about running a jet pump dry on the trailer. There's oly only one place that's got any issues when running dry, and that's your packing. If you have the right clearances and good bearing in your pump, it's not going to rub, wear, crack, split, or do anything else bad but it CAN wear the packing. It's a straight shaft of solid stainless steel. It has a solid impeller that has clearances between it and the wear ring and pump. A bearing on one end, and bushings on the other. Not much room for movement there. Those clearances better not change enough to cause contact between yout impeller and anything else. Otherwise you either have a seriously worn out pump, or someone who didn't know WTF they were doing put it together. Is it "advisable"? I don't think it's good for the packing, like I said, but other than that, it makes absoluteluy no difference to the pump if it's in water or not.
Wear Ring - if you look at the wear ring you will see strange markings on the surface, those are what you call heat marks, where the ring has gotten so hot it has almost welded itself to the impeller
How does this happen from running dry? Where's the heat from? Aluminum melts at 1300 deg. :hammerhea

[NELSON#109]

i hate to say it foxswell, but thats hard to argue with, unless like the santa barbra county district autorney, your functionally retarded.(they are easy to argue with) like u said, even with a nasty moter, your not gonna see vibrations so crazy that they're gonna make the impelor grab the wearing (assuming the bushings are good, and every thing is straight)..... so what is the big deal, ....... anyone???? bring it....

[Squirtin Thunder]

FYI from second post and pics:
Impeller #1 - was an HTP, clearanced by Duane.
Impeller #2 - was an MPD, clearance and set up by Jack.
It was not vibration that caused the heat transfer but in fact the dry starts and runs. Bearings and packing glands are fine.
Now on Monday, I will be pulling my pump apart which was clearanced by Jack at MPD. Wear ring installed by myself and I have run it dry on the trailer quite a bit. My impeller has been run for about four months of use and about 1000 miles, maybe more. After discovering the carnage from dry runs, I want to see my impeller and what, if any damage has occurred.

[cave]

I'll definitely will be watching this thread. I was always told by people I trust not to run the pump out of the water. Most of them on this site.
steelcomp thats a good theory but then if what you say is true then why do the dragboat racers use the Jet Away to run their engines out of the water at Firebird? The jet away is on my " got to get soon list". Why do I need it if I can run it on the trailer. I dont have the big HP yet. Soon but not yet. I do have a rev limiter on the MSD box.
Knowing that in a perfect world my shaft would probably be straight forever. When the chop gets going and I get a bit airborne & I mis-time the swells I low rev back into the water. This has to have an effect on the shaft just like being locked up on a 4x4. a slight twist. Once twisted a slight curve will follow. Some of these engines I see here on J.J. have to exert some intense torque on the shaft. How the heck do they keep from distorting the shaft.
Sorry SniperDad. Different subject altogether but related.
I hope this theory is true. I'll save big bucks on gas from towing my jet to the lake :D

[steelcomp]

FYI from second post and pics:
Impeller #1 - was an HTP, clearanced by Duane.
Impeller #2 - was an MPD, clearance and set up by Jack.
It was not vibration that caused the heat transfer but in fact the dry starts and runs. Bearings and packing glands are fine.
Now on Monday, I will be pulling my pump apart which was clearanced by Jack at MPD. Wear ring installed by myself and I have run it dry on the trailer quite a bit. My impeller has been run for about four months of use and about 1000 miles, maybe more. After discovering the carnage from dry runs, I want to see my impeller and what, if any damage has occurred.
We got the part about dry starting, but you still didn't say where the heat is coming from. Air??? That's all there is between your impeller and wear ring.
Now, there are some race pumps with extremely tight clearances, and the bushing to shaft fit isn't the greatest, so might allow the impeller to run out .005" or so, but that's not going to be an issue on 99.9% of the pumps out there.
steelcomp thats a good theory but then if what you say is true then why do the dragboat racers use the Jet Away to run their engines out of the water at Firebird? You'll have to ask them. LIke I said, it's not a good idea as far as your packing is concerned, and I believe that's where the idea of not running on the trailer is from. Also, think about this. How many of you put something across your intake opening or stuff sometnign in it while trailering? How many of you shove a garden hose in the intake and rinse all the road grime out of your pump before putting it in the watter? How many of you even look under your boat before launching it after you've trailered it for an hour or five? Imagine all the crap you kick up off the road that can get into your pump. There's a lot of your problems right there. Impeller wear from just dry starting?? Not going to happen, IMO.
Knowing that in a perfect world my shaft would probably be straight forever. When the chop gets going and I get a bit airborne & I mis-time the swells I low rev back into the water. This has to have an effect on the shaft just like being locked up on a 4x4. a slight twist. Once twisted a slight curve will follow. Some of these engines I see here on J.J. have to exert some intense torque on the shaft. How the heck do they keep from distorting the shaft.That's a good point, but my answer is that if you have a bent shaft to the point that yout impeller and wear ring are touching, it won't matter if you dry start or run in water, you're gong to get wear, and probably vibration. I put my shaft in a lathe and checked it for run out, and it dose run out .007tir in the worst place, so I'm replacing it with a stronger one. I ran the piss out of my boat on the trailer and my impeller didn't have a mark on it when I took it apart. Your question about handling the power...some do twist the shafts. There are stronger alloy shafts for higher hp as well. If you ever have your pump apart, it's a good idea to check your shaft for straight.

[steelcomp]

i hate to say it foxswell, but thats hard to argue with, unless like the santa barbra county district autorney, your functionally retarded.(they are easy to argue with) like u said, even with a nasty moter, your not gonna see vibrations so crazy that they're gonna make the impelor grab the wearing (assuming the bushings are good, and every thing is straight)..... so what is the big deal, ....... anyone???? bring it....
:D :D :D

[cave]

All good answers steelcomp.
You'll have to ask them.
I will ask them at the Finals here in Chandler. Jet Away is officially off the got to get list.