Help me put together a new Home theatre on the cheap...

[Cole Trickle]

I just moved into my new house and I have a modest budget to put together a home audio/video system.(My budget is around $4000-4500 :cry: )
First and foremost I will be buying a Panasonic 50" Plasma (TH 50PX60U) I can get a smoking deal through my mom for around $2800.00 with the wall mount.
So lets say I have another $1500-2000 to spend on a surround sound receiver,DVD player,cables and speakers.
I want to do 3 in wall speakers for the front stage and 2 for the surround.I also would like atleast a 10" sub so you can feel the movie.
I will do the install myself with the help of knowlegable friends.
So what would you suggest for product?I want loud and clean but I don't need anywhere near top of the line.(Think bang for the buck)

[ROZ]

In wall or in ceiling speakers?

[Cole Trickle]

In wall or in ceiling speakers?
Front 3 in wall and rear in celing.
I would love your help choosing equipment.If you know a good place to score the equipment soot me a PM. :)

[Cole Trickle]

In wall or in ceiling speakers?
Front 3 in wall and rear in celing.
I would love your help choosing equipment.If you know a good place to score the equipment soot me a PM. :)

[Jyruiz]

With such a nice display, I would make sure you get the right DVD player for it. Look HERE (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=0&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0#Oppo%20DigitalOPDV971H%20(DVI)) to see how the DVD players compare. One of the best DVD player for your display is only $199.00.
On the speakers, Klipsch makes some decent in-wall speakers as well at ceiling ones.
Receivers, since you are going to go with in-wall speakers, I would go for one of the new receivers that not only calibrates the speakers for you but also EQ's them to match the sound of every speaker. Like the Pioneer VSX-816-K/S (http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_32252771_305228026,00.html)
Subs, a lot of companies make some good 10" subs now a days, but if you are into movie watching, I would go with a 12" to get the lower extension.
Cables, only go with Monster cables if you want the bling factor, a lot of inexpensive cables have proven to be just as good for half the price of Monster Cables.
Good luck and I hope you don't mind me putting in my two cents.

[Outnumbered]

You should be able to build a nice system for that price. Here is a tip on cables: I just bought about $300 in cables and such from this guy on e-bay. The prices are killer and service is fast. Pay with pay-pal and you should have your stuff within 5-7 days max. Check out his e-bay store--some great pricing.
http://stores.ebay.com/Bag-Boy-Home-And-Car-Audio-Wiring_Home-Video-Cables_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ14QQftidZ2QQtZkm

[Cole Trickle]

With such a nice display, I would make sure you get the right DVD player for it. Look HERE (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=0&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0#Oppo%20DigitalOPDV971H%20(DVI)) to see how the DVD players compare. One of the best DVD player for your display is only $199.00.
On the speakers, Klipsch makes some decent in-wall speakers as well at ceiling ones.
Receivers, since you are going to go with in-wall speakers, I would go for one of the new receivers that not only calibrates the speakers for you but also EQ's them to match the sound of every speaker. Like the Pioneer VSX-816-K/S (http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_32252771_305228026,00.html)
Subs, a lot of companies make some good 10" subs now a days, but if you are into movie watching, I would go with a 12" to get the lower extension.
Cables, only go with Monster cables if you want the bling factor, a lot of inexpensive cables have proven to be just as good for half the price of Monster Cables.
Good luck and I hope you don't mind me putting in my two cents.
Your help is greatly appreciated!(You and Roz have forgotten more about home audio/video than I will ever know)
What DVD player are you talking about that cost under $200.00?
I would like to put together something that sounds good and helps me hold on to my extra money so I can fix up the back yard next year.

[Cole Trickle]

You should be able to build a nice system for that price. Here is a tip on cables: I just bought about $300 in cables and such from this guy on e-bay. The prices are killer and service is fast. Pay with pay-pal and you should have your stuff within 5-7 days max. Check out his e-bay store--some great pricing.
http://stores.ebay.com/Bag-Boy-Home-And-Car-Audio-Wiring_Home-Video-Cables_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ14QQftidZ2QQtZkm
Thanks for the link.
When I figure out what I actually need I will hook up with them. :)

[Jyruiz]

This one. (http://www.oppodigital.com/)
Or
This one. (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=89310&catGroupId=24988&modelNo=DVD-S77S&surfModel=DVD-S77S&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702)
The Panny is $50.00 more, but will be easier to find and well worth the price.

[Cole Trickle]

This one. (http://www.oppodigital.com/)
Or
This one. (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=89310&catGroupId=24988&modelNo=DVD-S77S&surfModel=DVD-S77S&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702)
The Panny is $50.00 more, but will be easier to find and well worth the price.
Thanks for the link
I will go with the Panny to match the TV and because my mom gets a deep discount.

[Jyruiz]

Thanks for the link
I will go with the Panny to match the TV and because my mom gets a deep discount.
Good choice, and definitely check out that Pioneer reciever, it should be less than the listed price on there website.

[Jesster]

Something else to think about would be going more upscale with the reciever. I had Sony and pioneer products for a number of years but after trying the Denon equipment have never looked back. The Denon AVR-2807 (http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3038.asp) lists at 1099.00 but can easily be had for about $800.00 shipped.
The TV is arguably the center of the home theater system but the receiver is right there with it. Watts are not created equally and 110 watts from the Pioneer are not the same as the 110 watts produced by the Denon. Just look at the weight difference between the two, the Pioneer comes in at 20 lbs and the Denon at 30 lbs. Most of the difference is power supply.
It is quite a bit of differnce price wise but if you go with the Denon you will never regret your decision, and it will probably get you out of at least 1 or 2 upgrades in the future.
The Pioneer is a good unit and will probably work out well but I have experienced the difference between Pioneer, Sony, Kenwood and Denon, Harmon Kardon, Marantz, Onkyo, and you will never regret the extra expense.
If nothing else take a look at the Yamaha RX-V2500, not to far off what you want to spend and the only thing missing is the XM capability I think.
Good luck with your decision.

[Jyruiz]

Denon makes some the the best recievers, but you have to get to the 4300 series and above for the Denon recievers to really put out its claimed wattage. The 2807 even at 30lbs, it won't get you the full 110 watts X7, not even X5. The test is done on each channel independently, so that is how they can say X7, cause each channel can do it on its own, but not simultaneously. Unless you get some higher end speakers, you will not notice the difference between the Denon and the Pioneer, specially with in-wall speakers. Also, the Denon has to be purchased from an authorized reseller or the warranty is void, and none of the authorized resellers will have them for $800.00. I would save my money for something else.

[ROZ]

One thing overlooked is what you really expect to get out of your system.. If you want to run a multi room or not, do you need 100x whatever per channel, or if you're just using the amp to run a basic theater...
I have a Denon 85x6 amp running my theater system and have no problems with output or clarity. I use 5 Polk TC series in-ceiling speakers, a center inside the cabinet, and 10" subwoofer to fill the 15 x 23 room with sound... It works very well. I don't have a dedicated theater room. It's a livingroom/familyroom ...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/326DSC03038.JPG
If I had a true dedicated room, I would have gone big :D
I'm kinda liking the Yamaha rxv659 right now.. It's Yamaha's entry level multi room unit for inexpensive multi room amp.. pus it's IPOD an xm capable..
If you just need to run 1 room, look at something in a 6 channel to keep costs down.. When time comes to add sound throughout the house, get it's own touchpad system :)

[ROZ]

Unless you get some higher end speakers, you will not notice the difference between
Kinda funny how a really good pair of speakers will help point out the weaknesses in a system :D

[Outnumbered]

Roz, don't you think its about time to get rid of that Christmas Tree? We knew you left your lights up all year but the tree is a little much :p

[Jesster]

Denon makes some the the best recievers, but you have to get to the 4300 series and above for the Denon recievers to really put out its claimed wattage. The 2807 even at 30lbs, it won't get you the full 110 watts X7, not even X5. The test is done on each channel independently, so that is how they can say X7, cause each channel can do it on its own, but not simultaneously. Unless you get some higher end speakers, you will not notice the difference between the Denon and the Pioneer, specially with in-wall speakers. Also, the Denon has to be purchased from an authorized reseller or the warranty is void, and none of the authorized resellers will have them for $800.00. I would save my money for something else.
I never claimed that it would put out full rated wattage per channel, few will, I was making the point that 110 Denon watts are far different from 110 Pioneer watts. :argue: :p
Just doing a quick search I found one listed from Etronics at for 864.00 full warrenty coverage.
I dont know what speakers he is going to use but I have a Sony reciever in the playroom with some Lower end Energy speakers that sound much better when hooked up to my Denon 3805. The 3805 powers a nice set of Niles 8500's in the walls in the living room that sound almost as good as a pair of Energy Connoisseur series my buddy has powered by an upper level Sony reciever. But then again my center channel is much nicer and that can make all the difference in the world.
What ROZ said about what he wants to get out of the system is the key. I just read the review on the RXV-659 and that is a nice reciever for the money, plus it's Yamaha. I also just noticed the bang for the buck comment. Need to read a little closer I guess :idea:
I noticed the site Cole Trickle posted for Bag-boy on ebay. Here is Bag-boy's web site if you don't want to wait on an auction, Darvex.com (http://www.darvex.com/) pretty much exact same prices sometimes a little cheaper. I just ordered most of my system wiring for the boat from them last week. The rest came from Knukoncepts (http://www.knukonceptz.com/)

[Outnumbered]

...
I noticed the site Cole Trickle posted for Bag-boy on ebay. Here is Bag-boy's web site if you don't want to wait on an auction, Darvex.com (http://www.darvex.com/) pretty much exact same prices sometimes a little cheaper. I just ordered most of my system wiring for the boat from them last week. The rest came from Knukoncepts (http://www.knukonceptz.com/)
I posted up the Bag-Boy stuff and the e-bay store is not an auction. Its all BIN stuff--no waiting. The good thing about e-bay is accountability through feedback vs buying from a store online that you may have never heard of.

[Jesster]

The Ebay store bag-boy and Darvex are the same company. I got the link from a post by SWB a while back.
Stinger 1/0 is $1.75 from bag-boy on ebay. He also has a website, it's www.darvex.com, I believe. It's not AS GOOD (flexible) as Kicker, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper and very good quality.

[Jyruiz]

I never claimed that it would put out full rated wattage per channel, few will, I was making the point that 110 Denon watts are far different from 110 Pioneer watts. :argue: :p
Just doing a quick search I found one listed from Etronics at for 864.00 full warrenty coverage.
I dont know what speakers he is going to use but I have a Sony reciever in the playroom with some Lower end Energy speakers that sound much better when hooked up to my Denon 3805. The 3805 powers a nice set of Niles 8500's in the walls in the living room that sound almost as good as a pair of Energy Connoisseur series my buddy has powered by an upper level Sony reciever. But then again my center channel is much nicer and that can make all the difference in the world.
What ROZ said about what he wants to get out of the system is the key. I just read the review on the RXV-659 and that is a nice reciever for the money, plus it's Yamaha. I also just noticed the bang for the buck comment. Need to read a little closer I guess :idea:
I noticed the site Cole Trickle posted for Bag-boy on ebay. Here is Bag-boy's web site if you don't want to wait on an auction, Darvex.com (http://www.darvex.com/) pretty much exact same prices sometimes a little cheaper. I just ordered most of my system wiring for the boat from them last week. The rest came from Knukoncepts (http://www.knukonceptz.com/)
Etronics is not an authorized Denon reseller, you can see who is HERE (http://usa.denon.com/OnlineETailers.asp) just in case you do want to go with the Denon.

[Jesster]

Etronics is not an authorized Denon reseller, you can see who is HERE (http://usa.denon.com/OnlineETailers.asp) just in case you do want to go with the Denon.
They will still fully warranty the receiver.

[Jyruiz]

Kinda funny how a really good pair of speakers will help point out the weaknesses in a system :D
Yup, and a good reciever will sound like sh!t with poor speakers. It's all about finding the middle ground. :)

[Jyruiz]

They will still fully warranty the receiver.
Yes but you have to send it back to them, and you are at their mercy when it comes to getting it back in a timely fashion. I use to have a Denon 3802 and I could have save a couple of bills going that route, but why take a chance when you are spending that much for a nice piece of equipment. What unathorized resellers do once they get it, they send it out themselfs for repairs, this only adds to the wait time, and they don't send it back to Denon for repairs, they use a third party repair center.

[Cole Trickle]

Thanks for all of the help guys!!(Keep it coming)
So it looks like I will go with the Panasonic DVD player and so far I like the Yamaha RXV659 as I do want to be able to control more than one room and have always liked the Yamaha receivers.(Back patio and Pool Table Room will also get hooked up)
Here are some pictures of the room (Don't mind the paint or furniture neither are mine;))
http://www.imrmls.com/images/K/3/K602222.jpg
http://www.imrmls.com/images/K/2/K602222.jpg
http://www.imrmls.com/images/K/4/K602222.jpg
The room is big probably 30X20 with 15' celings
My plan is to close in the current TV niche to the same width as the lower A/V cut-out and then add some recessed lighting and glass shelves to use as a display area.The lower unit will house all of the A/V equimpent and I will add some better shelves.
I will be hanging the Plasma over the fireplace
So out of say a $2,000 budget we already ate up $800
$200.00 Panasonic DVD player
$400.00 Yammaha Receiver
$200.00 Wiring??
What can I do for speakers and a sub that will sound good and run me less than $1200?
I have seen some talk about Polks and there is a chance I can get that equimpent for cost through a buddy of mine.
What brand and model number should I be shooting for?

[ROZ]

http://www.imrmls.com/images/K/3/K602222.jpg
What, no tree ? :D

[ROZ]

You'll find that your current layout is optimum for converting to an on wall tv.. Getting power and signal to behind the plasma display will be just a little harder than a "snap"
You're room is big. You'll need a 12" subwoofer or a really powerful( like 1000watts) 10" sub...
Find out if your buddy will hook you up....
If you can get it from him, the PSW505 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/psw505/) sub will be a good price.
Also, check into getting the TC65i (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/TC65i/) for the front 3, and getting the TC60 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/tc60i/) for the rear.
Since the rest of the house is just background, consider a less expensive speaker. Again, if you have the hookup, consider a polk unit such as the RC60 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rc60i/) or RC80 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rc80i/) for the pool room... I like the Mirage Oasis, but the Polk atrium 60 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/atrium60/) are sweet, too...
Knowing(more like remembering) what cost is, you should be able to get atleast the "theater" all set up :)
Hope this is helping...

[Cole Trickle]

What, no tree ? :D
Tree......
I wish my pad was as pimpe out as your house;) :crossx:
I don't even have the washer and dryer hooked up because I know they will want me to move it when they paint. :cry:

[Cole Trickle]

You'll find that your current layout is optimum for converting to an on wall tv.. Getting power and signal to behind the plasma display will be just a little harder than a "snap"
You're room is big. You'll need a 12" subwoofer or a really powerful( like 1000watts) 10" sub...
Find out if your buddy will hook you up....
If you can get it from him, the PSW505 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/psw505/) sub will be a good price.
Also, check into getting the TC65i (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/TC65i/) for the front 3, and getting the TC60 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/tc60i/) for the rear.
Since the rest of the house is just background, consider a less expensive speaker. Again, if you have the hookup, consider a polk unit such as the RC60 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rc60i/) or RC80 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rc80i/) for the pool room... I like the Mirage Oasis, but the Polk atrium 60 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/atrium60/) are sweet, too...
Knowing(more like remembering) what cost is, you should be able to get atleast the "theater" all set up :)
Hope this is helping...
Thanks for all the info.
I like Polk and have been happy with there recent offerings.
Hopefully I can get a deal on this stuf so I can stay close to budget. :idea:
What do I need cable wise to hook up the receiver,Cable box,DVD player and Plasma?

[ROZ]

What do I need cable wise to hook up the receiver,Cable box,DVD player and Plasma?
Cable to receiver w/ component video cables and RCA inerconnects for sound. If the cable box has optical, use that instead..
DVD to Receiver using component video cables and optical for audio.
Receiver to plasma use component video cables and RCA audio cables..
Since your run is so short, you may be able to get from the receiver to the tv using standard mfg cables.
If your run was longer, I would have suggested using 3 rg6 cables terminated with compression rca ends for component video cables and 2 rg59 terminated with compression rca ends for the audio... Doin it that way you're making your own custom length cables.. it also makes it a little easier to pull through the walls since you can terminate them after the run is completed...
For power, get a wall clock outlet from home depot...probably about 8.00... It's recessed so you wont have clearance issues from the plug once you get the tv on the wall...
The way I posted is easiest for 2 reasons.. 1. it's a simple no clutter wire run from the receiver to the tv.. 2. you use the receiver as your source switcher and the tv is on video 1 all the time.. only button you need to push for the tv is power on/off..you'll likely never listen to the tv's audio again... The volume arguement doesn't work either... The receiver has an attenuator just like a tv... you can make it go as low as you need :)

[Jyruiz]

Roz has made it pretty simple for you there, but I would skip the DVD to the reciever and go with an HDMI cable fromt he DVD to the plasma. You have a digital display and using the HDMI connection will leave everything in the digital domain for the best picture possible. If you use component cables, the DVD will have to convert the signal to analog and then the plasma will covert the analog signal back to digital, this will degrade the picture, going thru the reciever will also degrade the picture by up to 3 db's. Still hook up the optical/coax cable from the DVD to the reciever though so you can get your surround out of the DVD. Picture quality to me is real important, so that is the only reason I would do it this way.

[Aluminum Squirt]

Anybody used the in-wall/ceiling/floor subs? I've seen a few on the Polk and Boston Acoustics site and was wondering if they are crap or not. Sorry for the minor thread hijack-Aluminum Squirt

[Jesster]

I don't want to start an argument or be contrary for the sake of being contrary. :argue: :)
I would try it both ways, use DVD to Plasma with HDMI and then try DVD to Plasma using component. A lot of the quality of picture depends on the DVD players circuitry, scalers especially, digital signals are encoded in different ways and have to be converted, and have to be scaled and processed to be displayed so its not a 1 to 1 or digital to digital output, there are conversions going on and sometimes they are not nice to the picture quality. :boxed:
The only way to tell is to compare, and that said there is a good chance the HDMI will look better but its worth a look.

[Jesster]

Anybody used the in-wall/ceiling/floor subs? I've seen a few on the Polk and Boston Acoustics site and was wondering if they are crap or not. Sorry for the minor thread hijack-Aluminum Squirt
I have heard one system that when cranked audibly rattled the wall. Another system in a custom built HT with the same equipment sounded awesome. So it depends on how the sytem was constructed, new construction by a professional or DIY in existing construction. Not saying a DIY'er couldnt do it but it would be work intensive.
I think there is at least one home audio mag that has done tests on I think the Triad system. Google it.

[Jyruiz]

I don't want to start an argument or be contrary for the sake of being contrary. :argue: :)
I would try it both ways, use DVD to Plasma with HDMI and then try DVD to Plasma using component. A lot of the quality of picture depends on the DVD players circuitry, scalers especially, digital signals are encoded in different ways and have to be converted, and have to be scaled and processed to be displayed so its not a 1 to 1 or digital to digital output, there are conversions going on and sometimes they are not nice to the picture quality. :boxed:
The only way to tell is to compare, and that said there is a good chance the HDMI will look better but its worth a look.
No aregument here, could be very true. Any time you connect thru a reciever though, you can experience signal loss and add interference. Unless the recievers video section is well shielded with copper, this is usually how it is done on higher end recievers. Also, we all don't have the same eye sight, so some people won't be able to tell the difference.

[Cole Trickle]

All of this info is great!!
Keep it coming so I can grow as a home audio/video expert;) :crossx:
Now if someone would talk ROZ into going back to work at Woofers I could actualy afford to do everything we have been talking about :rollside: :cry: