need BBF ford advice

[Wired Nut]

I am building a motor for my 1975 18' Southwind with a Berkeley 12JC-A pump that has been reworked a little by Tom Papp. I need help picking the rest of the parts needed to complete this project. i am still unshur what fuel delivery system i want to use it is a toss up between a tunnel ram with duel carbs or a Enderle mechanical Fuel Injected tunnel ram (BIRDCATCHER INJECTOR TUNNEL RAM) has anyone run this type of intake if so how did it work out? I am also looking for a good Ford engine builder.I have made a list of the parts I have already and a list of parts i still need to get. any help recommending manufacturers or part #s would be of great help I seem to get confused when it comes to the valvetrain.
parts I have
Scat 4.15 crank
SCAT H-Beam rods
SRP pistons 10.3:1
Sealed-Power rings
ARP main studs
ARP Head studs
Clevite 77 "H" series main bearings
Clevite 77 "H" series Rod bearings
Clevite 77 cam bearings
Cloyes Billet true roller timing set 9 Keyway
Blue thunder heads 74cc with 2.25,1.88 std HT. ford exhaust
Bassett 10 Quart oil pan W/ windage tray
Bassett water injected headers
parts I need
roller rockers what ratio ?
Cam hyd. roller prefered
hyd roller lifters
oil pump
distributor
gasket set
push rods
valve springs
valve spring retainers and locks

[steelcomp]

The first thing I would do is contact Blue Thunder and see what rocker and valve stem length they used when designing their head. Use that information in order to get the proper geometry, which is critical. I'm going through this with my Canfiels BB Chevy heads right now, and if I had talked to Canfield in the beginning it would have saved a lot of headaches. What some call stock length in valves, others call +.100, and so on. Manley even lists three different lengths of valves and calls them "stock" for BB Chev. :notam: Canfiels said to use a +.100 ex valve, but the dimension they give for that length is referred to as "stock" in Manley's book. :confused: Blur Thunder may have designed their head using a BB Chev rocker (for cheaper parts), which is definately different than a Ford rocker, so you need to find out. AFA pushrod lengths, you might be able to get them to tell you, but I'd just get the heads built correctly and then do a mock up and measure for your push rods. Valve springs, retainers and locks will all be determined by the cam chooice. Titanium retainers are IMOP a worthwhile investment. Anything you can do to lighten your valve train is a plus. Roller rockers are almost a must, and you'll generaly get what you pay for. Scorpions are very good, Crane, Comp, Isky, Sharp, Lunati...all make good alum. rockers. Like I said before, rartio and design will be dictated by Blue Thunder.
I don't know if there's a hyd. roller for the BB Ford, but I would imagine so. I wouldn't bother. You can get good enough valve train pieces to where you can run a solid all year and not have any troubles with adjustments. Llifters are much lighter and you'll get better performance. Get all the info you can about your heads AFA flow numbers and decide what rpm you're going to use your boat most. Choose your cam accordingly. Don't try and "out-cam" your buddies...most have way more cam than necesary anyway, and are hurting performance. Pick the right cam and show them the back side of your roost. :D
Oil pump...most BBFords will do fine with the srock pump, just check your clearances between the gears and the cover, like any oil pump. Too much and you're throwing away pump performance. You can use a high vol. if it makes you feel better, but not necessary, IMO, if bearing clearances are good. No less than .003 on the mains, and .0025 on the rods.
Ignition...the sky'ds the limit, but go with a goos electronic. I don't particularly like MSD electronics, but their distributors are OK. Crane and Accel both are making some good electronic ignitions.
I know all this sounds like a lot of work, and maybe a little overwhelming, but if you want your engine to perform to it's oprimum potential, then take the time to do it right. Find someone who can walk you through these steps, and ask questions. IN the end, you'll have a better running motor than 90% of the guys out there, it'll stay together longer, and you'll have more fun. :coffeycup

[RiverRacer]

You have a good start on your parts, especially the BT Heads. If you need help deciding, go to www.dscmotorsport.com and browse. Call me Monday thru Saturday. If you are in the local area(SoCal), feel free to drop by. Conversation and advice(even if you buy elsewhere) is free. As far as engines, a complete, new Sunnen machine shop and operators that know how to use it at your disposal. Good luck on your project in any case.

[LakesOnly]

Nice collection of parts there.
If you are burning gasoline, then I would opt for the carbureted intake system over the injection system for a fun boat such as your Southwind.
In order to get 10.3:1 c/r with those BT heads and rotating assy, you must have the 22cc dish top pistons. Double check this.
I strongly recommend a rocker specifically designed for the Ford with a 1.73 ratio and not a 1.7 chebby rocker. The chebby may be made to work fine in many cases, but in the interest of simplicity for you first Ford build, go with a true Ford 1.73 rocker such as the Crane Gold Series, the FRPP blue, etc.
Dizzy and electronics should be kept simple (K.I.S.S.). Most brands make a good setup, including Accel, MSD, Mallory, etc. I would opt for a breakerless ignition (no points). Believe it or not, the Ford Dura-Spark electronic ignition and distributor are fantastic (MSD's actually use for pickup coils and reluctors, for example), but ideally the Dura-Spark dizzy shoud be recurved.
Although the hydraulic roller lifters are out there and seem to work in the Fords, I am against them in the 385 Series engine. The OAL of the hyd roller dictates the use of a rather short pushrod, and the pushrod angles are discomforting to look at, especially when you consider that your motor will be spending most of its time at 5000 rpm sustained. Get a solid roller instead. Get Lunati or Crane rollers; although I have not personal bad experience, I have heard enough bad stories about Comp Cams rollers to choose to avoid them. Get a whole cam kit that includes the lifters, springs etc. And spring the extra couple of bucks for the 10* locks!
Go with Fel-Pro gaskets. If you want to spit hairs, get the Fel-Pro p/n 10768 marine head gaskets, as they have a .038" thickness (also have a stainless fire ring); over the p/n 1018 pass car .043" thickness gaskets.
Your build is a good candidate for either our Stage 1 or Stage 2 oil pump, but in this case I'll recommend the Stage 1. Flows more than the stock Melling M84DHV. Oil has seven important functions in your engine and one of them is acting as a coolant, which is very important in our jet boats (high oil temps). Our Stage 1 pumps have supported somewhere around 1800-2000 horsepower in nitro burning funny cars. Stage 1 Oil Pump $119.95.
If you intend to make use of that 9-keyway timing gear set, then you may want one of our Quick Change timing covers. They allow cam timing adjustments without removal of the timing chain case (and oil pan bolts) from your engine; just remove the cam gear access cover. Our custom timing cover is the only production cover in the world for the BBF that offers this feature. Quick Change Timing Cover $299.95.
If you are anywhere near the 818 in SoCal, we can take the engine build job and probably beat anyone's price.
LO

[Danhercules]

Lakes Only helped me with my mild 460. I could not be happier. Great guy to do buisness with. My moter is runner better than ever. Lakes helped me with cam and head selection and also ported and prepped my heads.

[steelcomp]

I strongly recommend a rocker specifically designed for the Ford with a 1.73 ratio and not a 1.7 chebby rocker. The chebby may be made to work fine in many cases, but in the interest of simplicity for you first Ford build, go with a true Ford 1.73 rocker such as the Crane Gold Series, the FRPP blue, etc.Lakes, do you know for a fact that the BT heads use the Ford rocker?? I know for a fact that the various after market mfgr's don't have very consistant roller to fulcrum c/l's even for same brand (Ford, Chev, etc) so it's important to know which brand was used when they designed their head. They could differ between mfgr's, even if keeping with Ford ratio.
For example: Here's a quote from Canfield's tech page:
Rocker arms: Don't get caught up in classifying rockers as FORD only or CHEVY only applications. After market rocker manufacturers use no standard dimension on axle center to roller tip axle center. Our Ford
rocker stud position was established using Crane Gold Ford roller rockers.
This is why I suggested talking to BT directly. After working in hard core cyl head mfg'ing for years, I've learned that you can't be too diligent about this stuff.
Also, I know you're trying ot promote your stuff, and that's cool, but for this app a stock BBF pump will be plenty of oil. I'm curious as to how many "fuel funnycars" your pump is used in? :rolleyes: C'mon, now. :cool:
Just my .02 :D

[Squirtcha?]

Definitely don't want to get caught up in this, however (non-expert that I am) it does seem like it'd make sense to contact Blue Thunder for the rocker deal.
Can't speak to the oil pump thing.
Love to have one of those timing covers..............let me know when the price comes down some. Holy smokes..............three bills!
P.S. edited here.
Let's see if this guy can get some solid advice without the pissing match part.

[RiverRacer]

Being a stocking Blue Thunder dealer, I can say that the Heads use FORD Rockers and parts. By the way, the Dooley Pan you have requires the use of a pump other than the Truck pump(84D or 84DHV) reccomended. These(Truck) pumps will not fit the P/U included with your 10 qt Pan. Any other questions, just call. Didn't realize there were so many 'engine builders' out there reading these posts, lol.

[steelcomp]

Being a stocking Blue Thunder dealer, I can say that the Heads use FORD Rockers and parts. Any other questions, just call.
Which Ford rockers and parts? Ford Motorsport, Crane, (basically the same) Isky, Sharp???? What about valve stem lengths? Push rod lengths???

[RiverRacer]

Which Ford rockers and parts? Ford Motorsport, Crane, (basically the same) Isky, Sharp???? What about valve stem lengths? Push rod lengths???
SteelComp, I don't use any of the ones you list. I am a WD for the company that holds the patent on the hardened PushRod seat in the Rocker body, as well as the Roller Trunnion. That company is Dove Performance. They make Rockers for Comp Cams and many other 'big' companies. Their Rockers all have a patent number stamped on them, and are the standard by which all others should be measured. I read these posts and see LOTS of bad information(ie: 40-50 HP by bolting on a set of Roller Rockers)!! If it was that easy, everyone would have a 100 mph Jet Boat, lol.
I'm here 8-10 hours a day selling NOTHING but Ford Racing Components. If you, or anyone else, has questions, please call the number on the website. I'm fairly well known and have a good world wide reputation for honesty- even if it costs me a sale or two occasionally.

[steelcomp]

SteelComp, I don't use any of the ones you list. I am a WD for the company that holds the patent on the hardened PushRod seat in the Rocker body, as well as the Roller Trunnion. That company is Dove Performance. They make Rockers for Comp Cams and many other 'big' companies. Their Rockers all have a patent number stamped on them, and are the standard by which all others should be measured. I read these posts and see LOTS of bad information(ie: 40-50 HP by bolting on a set of Roller Rockers)!! If it was that easy, everyone would have a 100 mph Jet Boat, lol.
I'm here 8-10 hours a day selling NOTHING but Ford Racing Components. If you, or anyone else, has questions, please call the number on the website. I'm fairly well known and have a good world wide reputation for honesty- even if it costs me a sale or two occasionally.
I've dealt with Jim Dove. (won't any more) And, I've talked with you. You seemsd like a good guy on the phone, but you're not adressing my point, though, and that's OK. We all have our agenda here on these forums, and I'm trying to save someone a headache. I'm suggesring to Wired Nut to find out specifically which parts were used to design the BT head. There's a big difference. I don't care if Dove makes them all, they're just a job shop making parts to someone's blue print. Dove didn't design other's rockers. The only one I know that sells Dove rockers under another name is Comp Cams, and that's the roller set up for the FE. Frankly, I wouldn't buy anything Dove casts in their foundry. But I'm not here taking an opportunity, trying to promote anything. Just giving good advice. Your advice is, what?? "Call me"??
BTW...if you want the "rocker to compare to", call Jim Miller.
I don't want to argue, here. I'm not trying to sell anything except good advice. Not promoting a product, not saying anyone's right or wrong, just stating a few facts to be ware of.
Okey dokey...I'm done here.

[Wired Nut]

This is my first jet boat I bought it from a friend with no motor he has the 0440 red southwind tunnel hull. I bought his first southwind 18' V bottom this is only the second boat I have ever owned my first was a 1967 Sears 16' runabout with a 35HP outboard and that was 16 years ago. So a lot of this is new to me. I have read a lot in the Forums over the past 6 monthsand have learned quite a bit.
Lakesonly I was hoping to get your attention on this I will be giving you a call yes you are correct the pistons are 22cc dish tops.as far as the ignition I was looking at a MSD setup.I Dont want to adjust Valves every other trip to the river that is why I was looking at A hyd. roller But if steelcomp i right saying that a good solid setup wont need constant adjusting I would go that way.As for the gaskets I will go with the marine head gaskets.for the timing I dont plan on messing with it I just wasent shur what degree it is to be set at. I understand that marine timing is diffrent from autos that is why i bought the 9 key.as for the oil pump i think i would go with the stage 2 pump better safe than sorry.
RiverRacer I bought my heads from DSC motorsport. Wish I got the raised exhaust ports but didnt know better at that time
Danhercules I thought i was building a semi mild motor.
My main objective with this moter is dependablty and not a lot of constant matinance.I have seen my friend 0440 red boat have to rebuild 4-5 motors in his boats in the past 3 years I cant afford to have dougans rebuild my motor every 8 months but he does run them hard.

[Wired Nut]

By the way RiverRacer can you give me the brand and specs on the valves since they came in a diffrent box with no paperwork with the heads or valves I was worried they are some Generic valves and was looking to buy new ferrea valves becouse i was unshur of them and dont want to risk my engine to cheap parts.

[Bailey]

I just purchased that same crank, pistons, and bearings for my 460. You should check with who ever is going to build this motor for you about those bearings. My builder won't use them said they wouldn't last. Also the crank needs alot of attention mine was pretty rough. Just some things to check on.

[Wired Nut]

Bailey what bearings did your builder recommend ? I thought the H series were better than the standard Clevite bearings any one else have a opinion on these bearings ?

[Bailey]

Maybe mine weren't the H not sure. Did you buy your parts as a stroker kit? My builder is going to use federal race bearings. I know nothing about which bearings are good or not.

[Squirtcha?]

Maybe mine weren't the H not sure. Did you buy your parts as a stroker kit? My builder is going to use federal race bearings. I know nothing about which bearings are good or not.
This seems to be one area where the BBF's are lacking. There don't seem to be a lot of choices on bearings. Is there anything available other that Clevite or Federal Mogul.
If so, what are they? Are they better or worse? What is the best possible bearing (main, rod, cam...) for the BBF's (or BBC's for that matter), and why are they the best?
I know when I had my motor built, the guy did mostly Chevy stuff and was unable to get the bearings he wanted for my build (whatever he typically used for his BBC builds). He ended up settling for a something else, but it was strictly because his usual favorite bearing company didn't make that particular type for BBF's.
I believe he ended up using the Clevites.

[Ken F]

Dan,
I just went with the Federal Mogul Part #134-M10. They are the coated bearings..a bit pricy, but...
For cam bearings I went with Jon Kasse coated cam bearings. A bit wider than normal ones which are supposed to be a bit better for strong valve springs with added pressure on the cam. From what I hear they are 351c front bearings...
Also went with LakesOnly's stage 2 pump. Nice piece, and he helped me a lot with some pretty extensive oil mods on the block too....should get it fired this week- CAN"T WAIT!!!!!!
Ken F

[steelcomp]

This seems to be one area where the BBF's are lacking. There don't seem to be a lot of choices on bearings. Is there anything available other that Clevite or Federal Mogul.
If so, what are they? Are they better or worse? What is the best possible bearing (main, rod, cam...) for the BBF's (or BBC's for that matter), and why are they the best?
I know when I had my motor built, the guy did mostly Chevy stuff and was unable to get the bearings he wanted for my build (whatever he typically used for his BBC builds). He ended up settling for a something else, but it was strictly because his usual favorite bearing company didn't make that particular type for BBF's.
I believe he ended up using the Clevites.
Clevite H series are fine for just about anything. The Fed Mog race bearings are a 3/4 groove for Chev's (and most others) and excellent bearings as well. They typically go about a half thou bigger than the Clevites. King makes good bearings, and King and Fed Mog have many sizes to choose from in their race bearing series.
Edited to add that none of the motors we're talking about here need anything in the way of special bearings. If your clearances are correct, and the finish on your crank and block are correct, you should never ever have any bearing problems.

[LakesOnly]

Lakes,
.... I'm curious as to how many "fuel funnycars" your pump is used in? :rolleyes: C'mon, now. :cool:
Just my .02 :D
Comp, the point I am trying to make about the application of our oil pumps is not how many nitro motors they have supported, as the number doesn't matter in itself. My point is only that these pumps support engines with lubrication needs all the way up to that of blown nitro. :smile:
Incidentally, while we're on the subject, I should note that there are very few Ford powered drag cars, even fewer Ford powered nitro-methane cars. I think you know this very well, Comp, so I would like to ask: is your question supposed to be some kind of a "trick question" where I am forced to publicy give a low number that is somehow supposed to make me look bad--or something like that--when in fact it actually misdirects from the point I was trying to really make? :hammer2: If it is, then I wish to reiterate that quantity is irrelevant because that point is moot relative to my claim. If your inquiry does not have an ulterior motive as I presumed, then please accept my aplogy in advance for suspecting so. :redface:
That being said (that there are almost no Ford drag cars out there), our oil pumps supported between six and ten Nitro motors other than our own cars. I'm sorry I don't have an exact number, but records were not precisely kept, and actually my position in High Flow Dynamics is to step in and serve as the exclusive distributor, promote and move the product, and get tallys/keep records on all the stuff that's being sold/formally handle the business side/sales for a change! :rolleyes: I confess I have a bit of a learning curve here, but hopefully in the future we will have documented data to support every one of our claims.
Moving right along...two years ago, NHRA imposed a big penalty for oiling down the track. In other words, if you blow your motor and puke motor oil all over the track, you pay fines. In reply to this announcement by the NHRA, all funny cars that were running internal pumps switched to dry sump external pumps so as to evacuate all oil from the pan and keep the gallons of oil out of the crankase, should the motor grenade.
LO

[LakesOnly]

... By the way, the Dooley Pan you have requires the use of a pump other than the Truck pump(84D or 84DHV) reccomended. These(Truck) pumps will not fit the P/U included with your 10 qt Pan.
Ahhhh yes. They use the CJ-style pump. We offer these pumps on a special order basis, since they are usually front pickup application. And since there have been recent inquiries, I arranged to include a couple into the next production run so as to have them on the shelf.
Wired Nut, I will PM you with my contact info and we can discuss Stage 1 prepped CJ pump (a bolt on deal for your pan & pickup) vs. the Stage 2 complete pump & pickup kit.
LO

[steelcomp]

Hmmmm. Me thinks there's a guilty conscience...never implied anything except that what you posted dosen't really qualify or quantify your pump in any way. Now if you said you had 12 of the last 24 finalists at the "X" Nationals using your pump, that might mean something. The point you were tryng to make was to sell a pump to someone who, IMO, dosen't need anything more than a stock pump. His motor and a fuel motor have nothing in common, especially oil system demands. Besides, if every funny car running a wet sump system had to go dry sump, then how is it that you're pump is still in a fuel funny car??
I don't want to get into it wicha, Lakes, I just think you could have been a little more subtle about your promotion. :cool:

[LakesOnly]

Dan,
I just went with the Federal Mogul Part #134-M10. They are the coated bearings..a bit pricy, but...
The FM-134M 3/4-groove main bearings are the way to go in these jet boat motors...keep the oil moving...
For cam bearings I went with Jon Kasse coated cam bearings. A bit wider than normal ones which are supposed to be a bit better for strong valve springs with added pressure on the cam. From what I hear they are 351c front bearings...
These are .060" wider than the standard 460 cam bearings, and yes they are basically #1 Cam bearings for the Cleveland
Also went with LakesOnly's stage 2 pump. Nice piece, and he helped me a lot with some pretty extensive oil mods on the block too....should get it fired this week- CAN"T WAIT!!!!!!
Ken F
I'm not going to go into every little detail on the pump mods that we do, but for the purposes of illustrating the modification efforts, I'll display one of the features. Look at the pictures below.
The first picture is of an oem Ford specification Melling stock replacement oil pump, NOT the hi volume pumps we modify. Notice that the pump's exit gallery is mostly blocked off by the bypass piston protruding into the exit gallery (left side of gerotor cavity):
Stock Spec Pump:
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowdynamics/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mellingoem.jpg
That's a stock spec 460 pump above. Now, the hi volume pump has a taller gerotor and therefore moves a greater volume of oil. Further, in the M84DHV, the bypass piston has been extended somewhat further away from the pump's exit gallery so as to reduce its obstruction and allow more oil flow:
M84 Hi Volume Pump:
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowdynamics/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/melling2before.jpg
Now, look at one of our mods:
Modified Melling Stage 1 & 2 Oil Pump Mod:
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowdynamics/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mellingmod2after.jpg
Note in the above photo that the bypass piston is installed and yet in no way does it obstruct oil flow as the oil exits the pump. That's how an oil pump's exit gallery should look on the inside.
(Important note: The above photo shows this single modification while still "in process" and not the finished product, after all other mods elsewhere, chamfering, blending, cleaning, etc.)
Again, this is just one of the modifications that we execute on our pumps.
Our Modified Melling Stage 1 pumps flow more than the Melling pumps as delivered and are a bolt on replacement for a standard style internal pump.
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowdynamics/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/stage1pump.jpg
Our Stage 2 pumps also have adjustable oil pressure ouput, and even more mods (than the Stage 1) have been made all over the inside of the pump housing and a pickup kit is also included that allows you to custom fab a perfect pickup just for you pan/application.
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowdynamics/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/stage2pump1a.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowdynamics/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/stage2kit.jpg
We sell our whole Stage 2 kit for just $199.95. By way of comparison, the Melling M84DHV pump retails for about $80+ and Canton and Milodon pickups are $60-$80. That's $140-$160 for a unprepped Melling M84DHV and a little ol' stamped steel, punch machine pickup. For an extra $40, we give you a fully prepped oil pump with adjustable oil pressure and materials to make yourself an awesome custom pickup tube for your pan.
In the proces of doing our homework, we also called Titan to see what they offer for pickups, and we were told that Titan does not offer a pickup! Instead, they directed us to a guy who will take your Titan and your oil pan and then fab you a custom pickup at the tune of $180. That's about $580 for an entry level Titan pump and the custom fabbed pickup.
So you can really see the value of our pump & pickup deal for $199. We set out to offer something that falls between the Melling M84DHV and the Titan and we think this pretty much nails it.
If you don't do fab nor do you have access to a fab shop, we will happily do for you what Titan recommends and accept your oil pan and custom make that pickup for you for an extra $50 labor above the cost of the Stage 2 Kit.
PM if interested,
LO
p.s. How that for subtle promotion, Comp? :D

[058]

Incidentally, while we're on the subject, I should note that there are very few Ford powered drag cars, even fewer Ford powered nitro-methane cars. LO
There may have been a few more Ford powered pro drag cars if it weren't for NHRA banning any engines with a bore center over 4.84" "Any engine" narrows down to the Ford only with its 4.90" bore center. John Force had a Ford he was testing when NHRA said no. Walt Austin had a Ford ready to run in TAFC after 2 years of R&D. NHRA requested all the specifications and parts list for certification and turned it down after a short 2 week review. It seems Austin found a little more HP with the Ford and found the sleeves were more stable in the block. Maybe the Ford people didn't grease the palms of NHRA or maybe NHRA is afraid of something.

[LakesOnly]

Hmmmm. Me thinks there's a guilty conscience...never implied anything except that what you posted dosen't really qualify or quantify your pump in any way. Now if you said you had 12 of the last 24 finalists at the "X" Nationals using your pump, that might mean something. The point you were tryng to make was to sell a pump to someone who, IMO, dosen't need anything more than a stock pump. His motor and a fuel motor have nothing in common, especially oil system demands. Besides, if every funny car running a wet sump system had to go dry sump, then how is it that you're pump is still in a fuel funny car??
I don't want to get into it wicha, Lakes, I just think you could have been a little more subtle about your promotion. :cool:
No guilty consciece here Comp, :confused: I think my inquiry as you your motive comes from past "head butting" you and I have had with each other.
Never said any oil pumps are currently in the running; I only said that they support oiling requirments in engines even such as those. I've tried to emphasize this twice now. :confused: Of course no-one's running one today, sheez.
I am growing tiresome of publicy chasing down every little nuance of what I may have said, only to have you poke your finger in my chest. From this point forward, I will do my best to ignore such posts that you direct towards me.
LO

[LakesOnly]

There may have been a few more Ford powered pro drag cars if it weren't for NHRA banning any engines with a bore center over 4.84" "Any engine" narrows down to the Ford only with its 4.90" bore center. John Force had a Ford he was testing when NHRA said no. Walt Austin had a Ford ready to run in TAFC after 2 years of R&D. NHRA requested all the specifications and parts list for certification and turned it down after a short 2 week review. It seems Austin found a little more HP with the Ford and found the sleeves were more stable in the block. Maybe the Ford people didn't grease the palms of NHRA or maybe NHRA is afraid of something.
yep, if Ford would support the NHRA a little more, then maybe things could be different. But on the other hand, would they? I feel it's a little sleazy how the politics of all this works. When Force's motor was still being test in Washington, NHRA caught wind of the project and called up there just to say to the guys, "we want you to know that we're going to outlaw it." And then they got together the very next day just to vote it out. Just because it's a Ford...
While it indeed sucks that Ford does not support racing near to the extent that we wish, it's even less appealing to me how the NHRA responds to it.
LO

[Blown 472]

yep, if Ford would support the NHRA a little more, then maybe things could be different. But on the other hand, would they? I feel it's a little sleazy how the politics of all this works. When Force's motor was still being test in Washington, NHRA caught wind of the project and called up there just to say to the guys, "we want you to know that we're going to outlaw it." And then they got together the very next day just to vote it out. Just because it's a Ford...
LO
All due to the whiney bitches at chivvy as they know their junk can't compete. :burningm:

[058]

Lakes, I just think you could have been a little more subtle about your promotion. :cool:
I find it curious that you would criticize Lakes for the promotion of his product and state your opinion as to the need of his pump on something that in your opinion doesn't need it. You have used this forum on several occasions to promote your engine and parts why can't he do the same? Perhaps his pump fills a gap than may be needed if for nothing else the pump was checked and clearances verified for people that do not have the knowledge or the resources to do it themselves. I doubt you would install a pump without opening it up if for nothing else but to check it and make sure its going to work. In my experences I have found Melling pumps overall quality to be good but room for improvement. I also believe that a BBF jetboat pump needs slightly tighter clearance as the oil has further to travel in a much longer pick-up under accelleration that would require more suction pressure than in a v-drive where the pump is in the rear of the hull using a short p/u.

[steelcomp]

I am growing tiresome of publicy chasing down every little nuance of what I may have said, only to have you poke your finger in my chest. From this point forward, I will do my best to ignore such posts that you direct towards me.
:cry: :cry: :cry: You poor baby! Ya know, Lakes, you're a bit of a premadonna, aren't you. Pretty sensational account of what...the first post I've criticized of yours in MONTHS!! (Not that there weren't others that deserved it)
And right on cue...your own personal groupie, 058 got his in, as well. Hi five for both you guys!! :notam:
Stop taking things and making things so personal you whiney bitch.

[steelcomp]

NHRA caught wind of the project and called up there just to say to the guys, "we want you to know that we're going to outlaw it."
John Force had a Ford he was testing when NHRA said no. Walt Austin had a Ford ready to run in TAFC after 2 years of R&D. NHRA requested all the specifications and parts list for certification and turned it down after a short 2 week review. It seems Austin found a little more HP with the Ford and found the sleeves were more stable in the block. Maybe the Ford people didn't grease the palms of NHRA or maybe NHRA is afraid of something.
Ya know, gossip is a nasty thing...like two old ladies. I can only tell you this...there was a lot more to BOTH those projects than being 4.900 bore ctrs, and they were about as much a Ford product as a Top Fuel motor is a Chrysler.

[Ken F]

The point you were tryng to make was to sell a pump to someone who, IMO, dosen't need anything more than a stock pump. His motor and a fuel motor have nothing in common, especially oil system demands.
I don't want to get into it wicha, Lakes, I just think you could have been a little more subtle about your promotion.
FIRST LET ME APPOLOGISE TO WIREDNUT FOR THE MESS HIS THREAD HAS TURNED INTO!
Steelcomp,
ya know...here we go again. You are getting almost as bad as Chit for jumping in and bashing people. The original poster (wirednut)has spent quite a lot of money on parts for his engine. From his parts list I'd say that our two engines are pretty close. I spent quite a lot of time emailing & calling Lem & Charlie Evans of Evans racing engines (Strictly 385 series) , and talked to John Kasse several times during my engine build. Both shops agreed that in the HP range that I was shooting for, the hi volume of oil and the oil mods to the block were a good saftey factor. LakesOnly was also in agreement with this, and helped me out a lot during the process.
So....Your opinion doesn't quite agree with Kasse or Evans Racing engines, or Lakes only....Or mine.
Ken F

[steelcomp]

FIRST LET ME APPOLOGISE TO WIREDNUT FOR THE MESS HIS THREAD HAS TURNED INTO!
Steelcomp,
ya know...here we go again. You are getting almost as bad as Chit for jumping in and bashing people. The original poster (wirednut)has spent quite a lot of money on parts for his engine. From his parts list I'd say that our two engines are pretty close. I spent quite a lot of time emailing & calling Lem & Charlie Evans of Evans racing engines (Strictly 385 series) , and talked to John Kasse several times during my engine build. Both shops agreed that in the HP range that I was shooting for, the hi volume of oil and the oil mods to the block were a good saftey factor. LakesOnly was also in agreement with this, and helped me out a lot during the process.
So....Your opinion doesn't quite agree with Kasse or Evans Racing engines, or Lakes only....Or mine.
Ken F
Blow me Ken.

[Wired Nut]

I understand that the motor I am building is a bit more than my hull could ever use But I dont plan on keepin this hull forever. I would like to get into something a lil bigger next summer and swap this motor.
I would like to thank everyone for there advice and Knowledge and input it was all helpful as far as the dissagreements go It happens I cant call myself a boater (yet) becouse I havent been on the water but i know how us land lubbers do it Line them up and run them all i can say is some day I hope i will be able to do that with yall
thanks again to everyone