High Court Expands Reach of Eminent Domain

[Forkin' Crazy]

:hammerhea just hit me on the head...... :frown:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160479,00.html

[Blown 472]

:hammerhea just hit me on the head...... :frown:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160479,00.html
Phucking bullshit is what it is.

[Kachina26]

Phucking bullshit is what it is.
Finally, we agree on something!

[Rexone]

Yep,.. My thoughts on it in this thread. (http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83185&highlight=property)

[pops1]

:hammerhea just hit me on the head...... :frown:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160479,00.html
This is the start of BAD BAD BAD! I am shocked even with the Left, Right thing this ruling came down this way. FIRST NO RIGHT TO LIFE NOW NO RIGHT TO OWN YOUR OWN. One bad deed seem's to multiply.

[HOSS]

I saw this on the TV yesterday. Seems the mayor claims without generating any more capital the town will go bust. I understand that but instituting ED for private business is the beginning of the end. Its just starting. Money makes things happen and human rights protected by law doesn`t carry no weight.

[cdog]

While the odds of this affecting any of us is slim to none. It is a major step in the wrong direction..My advise....Sell your home if you live on or around a major through fair, freeway or flatland-comercial area while it's worth anything. Keep in mind that property is never really owned by you even if you own it debt free. The gov. can tax it and take it away if you fail to pay. Not to mention they can sieze it and blame you for tax issues that is beyond anyones comprehention.
Notice the cycle lately............
If your not a minority you lost your right to free speech.
Take away even more property rights.
Take away consumers bankruptsy protection, but allow compinies like kmart to buy sears 2 years after they screw their creditors and share holders out of multi millions..
The next pres. will be a Dem for sure and then bye bye gun rights.
Labor unions drive companies cost thru the roof so outsourcing is their answer to assure to make the shareholders happy, Meanwhile screw everyone else.
Give africa millions and forgive 27 mil. in debt but screw tax paying americans out of their social security.
What's left???????????????????????????????????
We still have the right to work a bullshit job and buy useless crap made in china.
This is a problem for the right and left. They have hung us out to dry with no answers for their F-ups but to tax tax tax......Suddenly ole Ross Pero looks like a genious. The sad part is even if we had a pres who actually did good for the US people all of his actions would go to shit once it hit the bureaucrat's desk.
Have you ever got the feeling that they are all part of the same actual party? They are all rich and have power, they choose to allow only certian people in their circle and share the insider information that all profit from but prosicute others for doing the same. Just as long as we "consumers" are still buying their crap and making them rich.

[1978 Rogers]

I heard about this on friday. What a phucking joke. This is total BS. You just got screwed if you own property that might eventually get re-zoned to commercial or could benifit "the people".

[Blown 472]

While the odds of this affecting any of us is slim to none. It is a major step in the wrong direction..My advise....Sell your home if you live on or around a major through fair, freeway or flatland-comercial area while it's worth anything. Keep in mind that property is never really owned by you even if you own it debt free. The gov. can tax it and take it away if you fail to pay. Not to mention they can sieze it and blame you for tax issues that is beyond anyones comprehention.
Notice the cycle lately............
If your not a minority you lost your right to free speech.
Take away even more property rights.
Take away consumers bankruptsy protection, but allow compinies like kmart to buy sears 2 years after they screw their creditors and share holders out of multi millions..
The next pres. will be a Dem for sure and then bye bye gun rights.
Labor unions drive companies cost thru the roof so outsourcing is their answer to assure to make the shareholders happy, Meanwhile screw everyone else.
Give africa millions and forgive 27 mil. in debt but screw tax paying americans out of their social security.
What's left???????????????????????????????????
We still have the right to work a bullshit job and buy useless crap made in china.
This is a problem for the right and left. They have hung us out to dry with no answers for their F-ups but to tax tax tax......Suddenly ole Ross Pero looks like a genious. The sad part is even if we had a pres who actually did good for the US people all of his actions would go to shit once it hit the bureaucrat's desk.
Have you ever got the feeling that they are all part of the same actual party? They are all rich and have power, they choose to allow only certian people in their circle and share the insider information that all profit from but prosicute others for doing the same. Just as long as we "consumers" are still buying their crap and making them rich.
And know one questions why the ultra rich run for office?? btw very well said.

[Rexone]

I heard about this on friday. What a phucking joke. This is total BS. You just got screwed if you own property that might eventually get re-zoned to commercial or could benifit "the people".
Yep. It's called socialism. US is traveling down the wrong road. Our freedoms (this only being one of many) are being eroded away monthly / yearly. When's the last time you can think of when government gave you "more" of any type of freedom or relaxed standards on one previously infringed upon?
I can't think of any.
Again it's all about money. This whole property ED issue is all money driven. Yes the town might have gone defunct. That's what things do with they're not viable in a capitialist society. To erode the freedoms of a nation to keep an otherwise no longer viable town viable is a big mistake. No one will bail out your small business if it becomes non-viable because you didn't keep up with changing enviornment (unless you're GM or an airline, oil co. etc). Should be no different with a town. Developers will now run amock with this ruling in jurisdictions where they know the local officials are sympathetic to their cause (local officials many times being part of their cause via ownership of benefiting businesses). The supreme court just opened the door for untold levels of corruption and collusion on the part of developers grabbing private property for profit.

[HOSS]

Well, didn`t the sign say, " Uncle Sam Wants You!"?

[Wicky]

[QUOTE=Rexone]Yep. Again it's all about money. . [QUOTE=Rexone]
Hey, that's my line!!! :D

[DCBob]

Yep. It's called socialism. US is traveling down the wrong road. Our freedoms (this only being one of many) are being eroded away monthly / yearly. When's the last time you can think of when government gave you "more" of any type of freedom or relaxed standards on one previously infringed upon?
I can't think of any.
Again it's all about money. This whole property ED issue is all money driven. Yes the town might have gone defunct. That's what things do with they're not viable in a capitialist society. To erode the freedoms of a nation to keep an otherwise no longer viable town viable is a big mistake. No one will bail out your small business if it becomes non-viable because you didn't keep up with changing enviornment (unless you're GM or an airline, oil co. etc). Should be no different with a town. Developers will now run amock with this ruling in jurisdictions where they know the local officials are sympathetic to their cause (local officials many times being part of their cause via ownership of benefiting businesses). The supreme court just opened the door for untold levels of corruption and collusion on the part of developers grabbing private property for profit.
While they grease the politico's for initiating the ED in the first place.
Have you noticed out here in Taxifornia, all cities large and small have gigantic, palatial, new city halls and cop shops etc. The folks w/the best jobs, retirement benefiets, medical etc are now the buracrats not the working citizens/small business people & property owners who pay for all this excess w/their tax money. Now the Supreme Court has just allowed the buracrats to stick the tube in further as they ED their way to a larger tax base to draw from and add to the buracratic insanity :mad: :mad:

[Wonderboy]

Yep. It's called socialism. US is traveling down the wrong road. Our freedoms (this only being one of many) are being eroded away monthly / yearly. When's the last time you can think of when government gave you "more" of any type of freedom or relaxed standards on one previously infringed upon?
I can't think of any.
Again it's all about money. This whole property ED issue is all money driven. Yes the town might have gone defunct. That's what things do with they're not viable in a capitialist society. To erode the freedoms of a nation to keep an otherwise no longer viable town viable is a big mistake. No one will bail out your small business if it becomes non-viable because you didn't keep up with changing enviornment (unless you're GM or an airline, oil co. etc). Should be no different with a town. Developers will now run amock with this ruling in jurisdictions where they know the local officials are sympathetic to their cause (local officials many times being part of their cause via ownership of benefiting businesses). The supreme court just opened the door for untold levels of corruption and collusion on the part of developers grabbing private property for profit.
I've been saying this for years! With all the new laws that are constantly coming out that seem to "protect us from ourselves". Where will it stop? It seems there isn't much you can do now days that won't land you in jail or get you a ticket. I'm not talking about putting other people in harms way, cause that deserves to be repremanded. And with all the video cameras in Hollywood and in intersections, you have to start agreeing with the people we used to think were paranoid because big brother really is watching.

[Seadog]

The media has made a big deal out of this and they make it sound so bad. In truth, this has been done for centuries. All this does is establish a ruling about a particular aspect of the situation.
Media: Dozens of families forced to leave their homes.
Truth: Most of the property owners sold willingly.
Media: Government taking people's property.
Truth: Government paying well above value for almost every piece of property.
Of those who didn't want to sell, one was an absentee landowner. Only one family has been fighting this on the grounds they did not want to leave their home, but their home is in the middle of nothing. All the property around them has been demolished. This may not been popular with a few, but the entire community was backing this action.

[HOSS]

This is true. BUT and I do say but, the government is forcing them to leave for a private land sale. Thats just phucin` wrong and against the law. Straight law not twisted. This is not for government usage. This is to create a tax base. Now don`t forget private industry will profit from rent/sales. Bottom line is the Constitution was/is suppose to protect this family and isn`t. Thats the law!

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

This ruling just makes me sick to my stomach.
We are dealing with this exact same issue on our property and were watching the case very closely.
Our property has been in my husbands family since the 50s and during wet years has a seasonal stream that eventually flows to Canyon Lake, CA. There are 3 developers (so far) who have talked the county into letting them build a storm drain on our property. It will feed from about 1500 homes and all of their run off will now come through our land. It will be wet there all year long, cutting of a large portion of our property and ruining the value of that parcel. It will endanger natural habitats and create a mosquito haven. We also have a nice Eucalyptus grove that creates privacy, fuels our home in the winter with firewood, provides a wind break and cools the air that will be nearly wiped out.
We have told them to find another route (like up their a$$!!). So they are working with the county for an eminent domain proceeding. We consulted with an attorney and have been in discussion with the county Flood Control, but this ruling really knocked us for a loop. We were hoping to use the "it's for a developer, not for public interest" card, but that will not work now.
It's people like us that the Constitution used to protect. The few who refused to sell their family home for a buck. I think I'll go throw up now.

[Forkin' Crazy]

BWAHAHAHAHA take that dickhead!!!!! :hammerhea
Press Release
For Release Monday, June 27 to New Hampshire media
For Release Tuesday, June 28 to all other media
Weare, New Hampshire (PRWEB) Could a hotel be built on the land owned by Supreme Court Justice David H. Souter? A new ruling by the Supreme Court which was supported by Justice Souter himself itself might allow it. A private developer is seeking to use this very law to build a hotel on Souter's land.
Justice Souter's vote in the "Kelo vs. City of New London" decision allows city governments to take land from one private owner and give it to another if the government will generate greater tax revenue or other economic benefits when the land is developed by the new owner.
On Monday June 27, Logan Darrow Clements, faxed a request to Chip Meany the code enforcement officer of the Towne of Weare, New Hampshire seeking to start the application process to build a hotel on 34 Cilley Hill Road. This is the present location of Mr. Souter's home.
Clements, CEO of Freestar Media, LLC, points out that the City of Weare will certainly gain greater tax revenue and economic benefits with a hotel on 34 Cilley Hill Road than allowing Mr. Souter to own the land.
The proposed development, called "The Lost Liberty Hotel" will feature the "Just Desserts Café" and include a museum, open to the public, featuring a permanent exhibit on the loss of freedom in America. Instead of a Gideon's Bible each guest will receive a free copy of Ayn Rand's novel "Atlas Shrugged."
Clements indicated that the hotel must be built on this particular piece of land because it is a unique site being the home of someone largely responsible for destroying property rights for all Americans.
"This is not a prank" said Clements, "The Towne of Weare has five people on the Board of Selectmen. If three of them vote to use the power of eminent domain to take this land from Mr. Souter we can begin our hotel development."
Clements' plan is to raise investment capital from wealthy pro-liberty investors and draw up architectural plans. These plans would then be used to raise investment capital for the project. Clements hopes that regular customers of the hotel might include supporters of the Institute For Justice and participants in the Free State Project among others.
# # #
Logan Darrow Clements
Freestar Media, LLC
Phone 310-593-4843
logan@freestarmedia.com
http://www.freestarmedia.com
http://www.freestarmedia.com/hotellostliberty2.html

[cdog]

What some of you are forgeting about is the fact that you may have inhearited land or a house that the tax rate is say $2000 a year since it was bought say in the 60's. Ya mabey the gov. will give you 1.2 mil for that land now but if you were to take that cash and replace it with a like property, do you now eat a $12,000 tax bill every year. Intresting, i'm an agent studing for my broker lic. and have never seen this brought up in any of my study's. If it happened to me i'd demand some sort of tax relief when I repurchased.
On the flip side what better way to get rid of the lower tax base properties than to get people off of their lots, built tax revenue buisness and the previous land owner goes out and has to buy a lesser property with a higher property tax bill that's assesed at todays purchase price. The state wins on both ends.............................................. ............................

[Seadog]

As far as Mrs SW goes, try the environmental impact route to stop them. If you have water flowing through your property part of the time, then it is a wetland. A constant flow will destroy that wetland. Of course, it means that the land will be limited in use forever, but that is one way to counter the situation. Without knowing particulars, I would think that your best bet would be to make them install the drainage underground. There are a lot of EPA rules that would probably effect any open drainage proposed. The catch is to find a lawyer that is conversant with MS4 restrictions.
The case before the court was what is the limit of eminent domain. If a city wants to build a road to take children to school, most will support it. But what if it is to provide access to a business district? What the court decided was that it was up to the local community to decide what is and is not a public need. I really doubt if the outcome had gone any other way, that it would have a beneficial result for the SWs.

[HOSS]

OH yeah, wetlands is a good one. Any standing water for more than 4 or 6 mos out the year is wetlands, I think. But hey, they canal all the time might constitute wetands and that would make the lands useless for the present owner. Not good. It will help feed a stream? Nah, don`t go that route. Ever shoot yourself in the foot. Hurts. I know that runnoff from new construction cannot affect someone else`s property. Thats the hook I`d be looking at. ever drove a tractor?

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

They are using the angle that the water already runs there. Truth is some of it does. But more will when there are more houses because less will soak into the ground.
And yes, I've driven a tractor, what does that have to do with it??
We are trying to avoid the habitat thing for obvious reasons.

[Wonderboy]

The media has made a big deal out of this and they make it sound so bad. In truth, this has been done for centuries. All this does is establish a ruling about a particular aspect of the situation.
Media: Dozens of families forced to leave their homes.
Truth: Most of the property owners sold willingly.
Media: Government taking people's property.
Truth: Government paying well above value for almost every piece of property.
Of those who didn't want to sell, one was an absentee landowner. Only one family has been fighting this on the grounds they did not want to leave their home, but their home is in the middle of nothing. All the property around them has been demolished. This may not been popular with a few, but the entire community was backing this action.
So if someone's house is out in the middle of no where, then it's OK for them to be kicked out?
The case before the court was what is the limit of eminent domain. If a city wants to build a road to take children to school, most will support it. But what if it is to provide access to a business district? What the court decided was that it was up to the local community to decide what is and is not a public need. I really doubt if the outcome had gone any other way, that it would have a beneficial result for the SWs.
And I don't think I would like the idea of the "community" telling me I need to sell my house, because the majority of the "community" are probably people that don't even live anywhere near me.

[HOSS]

They are using the angle that the water already runs there. Truth is some of it does. But more will when there are more houses because less will soak into the ground.
And yes, I've driven a tractor, what does that have to do with it??
We are trying to avoid the habitat thing for obvious reasons.
Take care of existing runoff with your tractor on your property right now. Wait and it`ll be too late.

[cdog]

They are using the angle that the water already runs there. Truth is some of it does. But more will when there are more houses because less will soak into the ground.
And yes, I've driven a tractor, what does that have to do with it??
We are trying to avoid the habitat thing for obvious reasons.
Do yourself a favor and sell it while it's value is thru the roof. Sit on the cash and wait.

[6 Dollar Boat]

BWAHAHAHAHA take that dickhead!!!!! :hammerhea
http://www.freestarmedia.com/hotellostliberty2.html
This guy has the right Idea, start taking judges homes for private developement and see how fast this can get overturned...
:D

[Mandelon]

What some of you are forgeting about is the fact that you may have inhearited land or a house that the tax rate is say $2000 a year since it was bought say in the 60's. Ya mabey the gov. will give you 1.2 mil for that land now but if you were to take that cash and replace it with a like property, do you now eat a $12,000 tax bill every year. Intresting, i'm an agent studing for my broker lic. and have never seen this brought up in any of my study's. If it happened to me i'd demand some sort of tax relief when I repurchased.
On the flip side what better way to get rid of the lower tax base properties than to get people off of their lots, built tax revenue buisness and the previous land owner goes out and has to buy a lesser property with a higher property tax bill that's assesed at todays purchase price. The state wins on both ends.............................................. ............................
CDog, I've sold two properties to a City agency through eminent domain process. There is a State law that allows the property owner to transfer their Prop 13 base year value to the replacement property. There are some stipulations and conditions, but my new property will have the basis of the old one transferred to it. The brochure they, the San Diego County Tax Assessor, gave me is called Property Taken by Governmental Action -Proposition 3-

[Sherpa]

exception to your statement:
2 automotive-related business's in Oakland (niether are related) but are in
the same block............ both of these have been labeled "holdouts" for
ED reason's.............. the city has been after both seperate business owners
for years to sell... neither wish to sell. both are functioning/operating business's currently. neither are considered "blight"..................
but, since this just past, both have ALREADY been put on notice. vacate
IMMEDIATELY.................... they have just this weekend to vacate......
for both business owners it's over.............. One is running a tire shop that
has been in his family since 1947. the other I'm not sure but it's been quite
a long time in that family as well..............
seem's the first city official onsite should receive a BMG round to aleviate some cranial pressure from, oh say 1000 yards out-?
--not a good thing to happen with OUR government....................
I can see the city coming after a few properties that would be considered
"holdouts" to raise city revenue..............
--Sherpa
The media has made a big deal out of this and they make it sound so bad. In truth, this has been done for centuries. All this does is establish a ruling about a particular aspect of the situation.
Media: Dozens of families forced to leave their homes.
Truth: Most of the property owners sold willingly.
Media: Government taking people's property.
Truth: Government paying well above value for almost every piece of property.
Of those who didn't want to sell, one was an absentee landowner. Only one family has been fighting this on the grounds they did not want to leave their home, but their home is in the middle of nothing. All the property around them has been demolished. This may not been popular with a few, but the entire community was backing this action.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

The media has made a big deal out of this and they make it sound so bad. In truth, this has been done for centuries. All this does is establish a ruling about a particular aspect of the situation.
Media: Dozens of families forced to leave their homes.
Truth: Most of the property owners sold willingly.
Media: Government taking people's property.
Truth: Government paying well above value for almost every piece of property.
Of those who didn't want to sell, one was an absentee landowner. Only one family has been fighting this on the grounds they did not want to leave their home, but their home is in the middle of nothing. All the property around them has been demolished. This may not been popular with a few, but the entire community was backing this action.
This is all fine and good Seadog, if you happen to be a member of the majority who are not being evicted/FORCED to sell.
This country set up a constitution (slowly being destroyed piece by piece by certain factions of our society (restraining from using the "L"-word)) to protect the minority from abuse at the hands of the majority, even though the majority rules. Emmenent Domain was put in the constitution purely because the founders were sick and tired of good ole King George taking whatever he decided he wanted, after all, HE WAS KING.
My home happens to be in the middle of a group of farm fields, 1/4 mile from the nearest home, 1/2 mile from the next nearest, 2 1/2 miles from the nearest commercial business (in a VERY smalll town nearby). My home is in the middle of nothing and I have no desire to sell it, to anyone, for any purpose.
Yes, immenent domain has been going on a long time ... ONLY for "Public Use" items. Freeways, schools, property to be flooded by a reservoir to be built, public GOVERNMENT buildings, stadiums, concert halls, libraries, parks, power lines, aqueducts, bridges, etc. "Public Use" facilities, not so some developer can build a hotel, apartments, or a shoe-store (or any other COMMERCIAL property). This country was founded on the fact that your private property is sacred to you, sacrosanct, and not touchable unless an overiding use BY THE PUBLIC AT LARGE is determined to weigh heavily enough to quash your rights of ownership. A new shopping center is neither a public facility nor is it a place for use by the public at large, unless they wish to make purchases. Just going to the mall to "hang out as a member of the public would be considered "loitering" and the shop owner can throw you out (or have you thrown out).

[Rexone]

If it had been going prior there would hardly have been any reason for it to reach the supreme court and have them rule on it.
As said above in the past it's been for "public use", not commercial use. The gov has crossed a line here imo that is in dangerous territory of infringing on the freedoms the constitution guarantees every US citizen. This new ruling will only encourage corruption in the taking of property for "commercial use and interest" that otherwise before would not and could not have been touched. To build a privately owned apartment building (as in the Oakland tire store case) is not what ED was designed for. You can bend the intent (which you will now see happen) to construe most any "commercial" use as a benefit for the public if there is a monatary reward (corrupt) reason for doing so. This will now take place within the coffiers of the higher ups of cities around the country. Keep in mind many rich successful businessmen and women also occupy the seats on city counsils. To think they are all on the up and up or won't make decisions in their own personal best interests would be a little naive. This is the precise reason we had the protective ED law put in place by this country's founders incorporating the public use provision.
Again. It's all about money, nothing more or less. And to hell with peoples freedoms or right to own property if it conflicts with those "with the gold's" interests. That is what this supreme court's ruling is all about. Make the rich richer, and fock the average Joe trying to make a living with a small business. I have no problem with the rich being rich as long as it doesn't adversely affect everyone else. This ED thing crosses that line IMO.
I'm really disappointed with many things and trends I see going on in this country. The republican congress and the Bush admin are showing me little. They have no balls it seems to do what's right, only to do what will produce the most money short term so they look good economically. And don't misinterpret that message. I like the democrats and their give away agenda even less. I have not voted for a president of this country since the 1980's (Reagan) that I truly believed was a great choice at the time I voted. It has always been the lesser of two or three that basically suck the least and to try and keep the most suckee from winning.
GW says alot of right things, but then does nothing in many cases to back it up. (Illegal immigration, this ED subject, China, and others). This open border thing is gonna bite us in the ass real hard (from the terrorist angle), only a matter of time (not even to mention the "it's illegal" angle). That is if we're not already farming rice when they start blowin shit up.
I'm stopping now, just getting pissed again. :smile:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

It's kinda hard not to get wound over stuff like this one Rex. I'm the same way.
That's why my signature line reads what it does.
You are correct about just how dangerous a ruling the supreme court has somehow been struck with enough stupidity to hand down. We can fight it in the legislature, but we should not have to, it's in the damned CONSTITUTION for pete's sake :frown: (and for the rest of our sakes too). :D

[Sportin' Wood]

Do yourself a favor and sell it while it's value is thru the roof. Sit on the cash and wait.
You allready covered the tax benifits of not selling. The current offer will not even cover the down payment on an equal parcel not to mention the additional tax that I will have to pay on a parcel of land I own free and clear. Guess we will find out soon enough. The project is now stalled. No homes have been finished. ( there are about 40 homes built with no drains or roads built) I guess its gonna be if I can hold them out long enough to finally go with the alternitive route that I proposed. Thats the pisser. They can go another route they just chose to go through me.
Bottom line with this is that its a way to screw Prop 13 protection at least in this state.
BTW they don't want it all, just a 1/2 acre through the middle. I get to maintain it and still pay tax on it because its just an easment that will ruin my parcel and leave me open to litigation. Not to mention I get to have the south western storm water what ever they call them selves agency up my A$$ about dirt from my ranch polluting the storm drain and Canyon Lake with silt and horse crap. Yea I love progress! Cut down my trees and then tell me I'm hurting the enviroment. Retards!

[Blown 472]

This is all fine and good Seadog, if you happen to be a member of the majority who are not being evicted/FORCED to sell.
This country set up a constitution (slowly being destroyed piece by piece by certain factions of our society (restraining from using the "L"-word)) to protect the minority from abuse at the hands of the majority, even though the majority rules. Emmenent Domain was put in the constitution purely because the founders were sick and tired of good ole King George taking whatever he decided he wanted, after all, HE WAS KING.
My home happens to be in the middle of a group of farm fields, 1/4 mile from the nearest home, 1/2 mile from the next nearest, 2 1/2 miles from the nearest commercial business (in a VERY smalll town nearby). My home is in the middle of nothing and I have no desire to sell it, to anyone, for any purpose.
Yes, immenent domain has been going on a long time ... ONLY for "Public Use" items. Freeways, schools, property to be flooded by a reservoir to be built, public GOVERNMENT buildings, stadiums, concert halls, libraries, parks, power lines, aqueducts, bridges, etc. "Public Use" facilities, not so some developer can build a hotel, apartments, or a shoe-store (or any other COMMERCIAL property). This country was founded on the fact that your private property is sacred to you, sacrosanct, and not touchable unless an overiding use BY THE PUBLIC AT LARGE is determined to weigh heavily enough to quash your rights of ownership. A new shopping center is neither a public facility nor is it a place for use by the public at large, unless they wish to make purchases. Just going to the mall to "hang out as a member of the public would be considered "loitering" and the shop owner can throw you out (or have you thrown out).
The "L" word?? what are you talking about, this was pushed thru while your boy is in office and he dont give a phuck, pull your head out and realize they are all the same and will phuck you given the chance.

[sorry dog]

Don't think it will only happen to a small percentage of us.
Right now we are gearing up for a ED battle at my extended family's mountain cabin. They built and have resided at the cabin since focking 1912! The state already used ED once to build a state highway next to the property in the 50's. Over the years the 18 wheeler traffic has progressively gotten heavier as it is cut through from Rome, GA to interstate 59(probably to avoid the scales). Bear in mind this is a old school tourist town (highest town in Alabama) with downtown consisting of gift shops, bed and breakfast hotels, many children's camps. Basically this is a mountain country road that happens to be the most convient pass to the interstate. There is a bigger highway close to the south but it takes an extra 15-20 minutes for the trucks going north to use. Our place is half a mile from town on really pretty river (one of the cleanest in the nation) that goes to Desoto Falls.
Several bad (some fatal) accidents between cars and big trucks recently put this particular place in the spotlight because of the narrow bridge and curve on approach. In fact several have landed in the front yard. Their solution (instead of lowering speed limit from 45 to 35) is to build new bridge and take 150-200 feet of the property which basically will codemn our 93 year old cabin and 60 year old stone boat house all so the trucks can drive faster through town and still be safe (maybe)...which I imagine will add even more truck traffic.
The other side of the road could be done and only need 80 feet and be a cheaper to construct, but that owner apparently is buddy's with the state senator. So that means the highway department is trying to ram it down our throats. No trying to be reasonable or listen to alternative ideas, just a bunch of kid engineers probably from Auburn drawing how they like. They won't listen to our calls for lowering the speed limit even after several hundred signatures on a petition. They got some money for a project and probably feel like they have to spend it... even if a large part of the community doesn't want it.
Basically this will destroy the value of this place and it really is not replaceable even if they give a fair value...and I doubt they will.
In fact the new bridge was scheduled for late next year, but when we bought in environmental experts to study the damage they bumped the schedule up to late this year...this kind of shit really sucks and even if we prevail in the end I'm sure it will end up costing thousands of dollars to fight. Being there first ought to count for something.
...All for the public good. Whenever politicians, lawyers, and engineers get in the same room you know somebody is gonna get screwed.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

If you re-read my post Blown ... you will notice that my context of the word "Liberal" has ZERO to do with what administration is in charge of the country and EVERYTHING to do with various "liberal-minded" interest groups that want to controll your life, for you, with or without your approval, they do not care.
PETA (recently found killing off unwanted pets they couldn't get adopted in N Carolina)
The Sierra Club (since when did owls check the age of a dam tree before moving in?)
Greenpeace
Earth First (arsonists and tree-spikers in logging territory)
People for the American Way (check out THEIR interests)
ACLU (the law firm of the North American Man-Boy Love Assn. "NAMBLA")
MoveOn.org (The gazilionaire's group who actually said George Bush Is Hitler!)
Peace Action
Physicians For A National Health Program (good idea, check Canada)
United For A Fair Economy <------- Look HERE!!!!!!!! Oh I'll save ya the trouble:
"United for a Fair Economy puts a spotlight on the dangers of excessive inequality of income and wealth in the United States -- and brings people together to take action to close this economic divide"
Violence Policy Center (gun "controll" (removal))
HCI (Handgun Controll Incorporated) see the above group.
How many others need to be listed.
Here's you a list of "Progressive-thinking American" Groups:
http://www.commondreams.org/community.htm
There are groups who don't want you to be able to do anything with your land (especially after they find some fish/worm/mite/plant living on it), even OWN a car (let alone a big one or Truck/SUV), The Environmental Terrorists who burn down Ski Resorts in Colorado or set fire to car sales lots, The people who tell you you must "understand why your kids misbehave" or even "Allow THEM to select their punishment". Need I mention the push for "Ebonics" (a useless street slang spoken by uneducated people who either don't know how or are unwilling to speak ENGLISH) in various School Systems because it is a "genetically black language"????
No, you are NOT allowed to protect yourself or your loved ones, that is the job of the POLICE (government), well, if you payed more taxes the police MIGHT be there since we could hire more of them.
Now, the highest court in the country (since no congressman would EVER vote FOR the ability to take your property just so they can) has taken a very "Liberal" interpretation of "For the public good" in the very constitution they are supposed to merely insure that laws do not violate. The same court (7 of the 9 justices chosen by republican presidents) cited International Laws in ruling that a murderer who killed prior to age 18 CANNOT be executed for his/her crimes. Just when did we start setting laws simply to conform to the socialist governments of Europe????? (Check out those government actions, they are by definition "Socialist").
Personally, as a "conservative", I want the govt to butt the heck out of my life and allow me the "liberty" to fail or succeed on my own merit and efforts. I do NOT want (nor need to be) to be protected from everyone/everything (including my own stupidity) nor do I want to be carried (or cared for) from cradle to grave by the socialist utopia of the state (Read 1984 by George Orwell).
Enough of my rant. Bedtime has passed already. Alarm clock, 5AM :sleeping:

[Blown 472]

If you re-read my post Blown ... you will notice that my context of the word "Liberal" has ZERO to do with what administration is in charge of the country and EVERYTHING to do with various "liberal-minded" interest groups that want to controll your life, for you, with or without your approval, they do not care.
PETA (recently found killing off unwanted pets they couldn't get adopted in N Carolina)
The Sierra Club (since when did owls check the age of a dam tree before moving in?)
Greenpeace
Earth First (arsonists and tree-spikers in logging territory)
People for the American Way (check out THEIR interests)
ACLU (the law firm of the North American Man-Boy Love Assn. "NAMBLA")
MoveOn.org (The gazilionaire's group who actually said George Bush Is Hitler!)
Peace Action
Physicians For A National Health Program (good idea, check Canada)
United For A Fair Economy <------- Look HERE!!!!!!!! Oh I'll save ya the trouble:
"United for a Fair Economy puts a spotlight on the dangers of excessive inequality of income and wealth in the United States -- and brings people together to take action to close this economic divide"
Violence Policy Center (gun "controll" (removal))
HCI (Handgun Controll Incorporated) see the above group.
How many others need to be listed.
Here's you a list of "Progressive-thinking American" Groups:
http://www.commondreams.org/community.htm
There are groups who don't want you to be able to do anything with your land (especially after they find some fish/worm/mite/plant living on it), even OWN a car (let alone a big one or Truck/SUV), The Environmental Terrorists who burn down Ski Resorts in Colorado or set fire to car sales lots, The people who tell you you must "understand why your kids misbehave" or even "Allow THEM to select their punishment". Need I mention the push for "Ebonics" (a useless street slang spoken by uneducated people who either don't know how or are unwilling to speak ENGLISH) in various School Systems because it is a "genetically black language"????
No, you are NOT allowed to protect yourself or your loved ones, that is the job of the POLICE (government), well, if you payed more taxes the police MIGHT be there since we could hire more of them.
Now, the highest court in the country (since no congressman would EVER vote FOR the ability to take your property just so they can) has taken a very "Liberal" interpretation of "For the public good" in the very constitution they are supposed to merely insure that laws do not violate. The same court (7 of the 9 justices chosen by republican presidents) cited International Laws in ruling that a murderer who killed prior to age 18 CANNOT be executed for his/her crimes. Just when did we start setting laws simply to conform to the socialist governments of Europe????? (Check out those government actions, they are by definition "Socialist").
Personally, as a "conservative", I want the govt to butt the heck out of my life and allow me the "liberty" to fail or succeed on my own merit and efforts. I do NOT want (nor need to be) to be protected from everyone/everything (including my own stupidity) nor do I want to be carried (or cared for) from cradle to grave by the socialist utopia of the state (Read 1984 by George Orwell).
Enough of my rant. Bedtime has passed already. Alarm clock, 5AM :sleeping:
And this has what to do with the fact the bush admin pushed thru a law that corps can take your land or your house.??????

[Jeanyus]

And this has what to do with the fact the bush admin pushed thru a law that corps can take your land or your house.??????
I didn't realize that the Supreme Court, is part of the bush adminstration. (They are the ones that decided to take away the rights of property owners)

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Exactly Jeanyus.
I am unaware that CONGRESS has passed any law expanding the Emenint Domain clause in the constitution.
I AM aware that the Supreme Court of the US (to which George W Bush has yet to make a single change and to which his father only put in 1 judge while the Clinton Admin put in 2 judges) has made a RULING that states that Tax Base Expansion is a sufficient need to be able to condem your property and force you to "sell" it. That that behavior falls within the "public need" realm of the "Emminent Domain Clause".
Not that it means much anymore but the courts (including the US Supreme Court) belong to the Judicial Branch which is wholy SEPARATE FROM (and supposedly equal to) the Administrative Branch (the presidency).
Basic Government, Junior High School Level:
MAKING law is the job of the Legislative Branch (congress)
SUGGESTING and APPROVING law is the job of the Administrative Branch (presidency)
ENFORCING existing law is the job of the Judicial branch (also insuring that those laws DO NOT VIOLATE the Constitution of the United States).

[Blown 472]

I didn't realize that the Supreme Court, is part of the bush adminstration. (They are the ones that decided to take away the rights of property owners)
And you don't think that bush and his corp buddies had any influance on this??

[HM]

And you don't think that bush and his corp buddies had any influance on this??
Bush and his "Corp Buddies" have as much influence on the Supreme Court as Kim Hanson has a grasp on the English language. :rollside:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

And you don't think that bush and his corp buddies had any influance on this??
Warning!! Warning!!! Danger Wil Robinson!!! Danger!! Danger!! We have a CONSPIRACY THEORIST on board.
That explains a lot. :chi:

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

Don't think it will only happen to a small percentage of us.
Right now we are gearing up for a ED battle at my extended family's mountain cabin. They built and have resided at the cabin since focking 1912! The state already used ED once to build a state highway next to the property in the 50's. Over the years the 18 wheeler traffic has progressively gotten heavier as it is cut through from Rome, GA to interstate 59(probably to avoid the scales). Bear in mind this is a old school tourist town (highest town in Alabama) with downtown consisting of gift shops, bed and breakfast hotels, many children's camps. Basically this is a mountain country road that happens to be the most convient pass to the interstate. There is a bigger highway close to the south but it takes an extra 15-20 minutes for the trucks going north to use. Our place is half a mile from town on really pretty river (one of the cleanest in the nation) that goes to Desoto Falls.
Several bad (some fatal) accidents between cars and big trucks recently put this particular place in the spotlight because of the narrow bridge and curve on approach. In fact several have landed in the front yard. Their solution (instead of lowering speed limit from 45 to 35) is to build new bridge and take 150-200 feet of the property which basically will codemn our 93 year old cabin and 60 year old stone boat house all so the trucks can drive faster through town and still be safe (maybe)...which I imagine will add even more truck traffic.
The other side of the road could be done and only need 80 feet and be a cheaper to construct, but that owner apparently is buddy's with the state senator. So that means the highway department is trying to ram it down our throats. No trying to be reasonable or listen to alternative ideas, just a bunch of kid engineers probably from Auburn drawing how they like. They won't listen to our calls for lowering the speed limit even after several hundred signatures on a petition. They got some money for a project and probably feel like they have to spend it... even if a large part of the community doesn't want it.
Basically this will destroy the value of this place and it really is not replaceable even if they give a fair value...and I doubt they will.
In fact the new bridge was scheduled for late next year, but when we bought in environmental experts to study the damage they bumped the schedule up to late this year...this kind of shit really sucks and even if we prevail in the end I'm sure it will end up costing thousands of dollars to fight. Being there first ought to count for something.
...All for the public good. Whenever politicians, lawyers, and engineers get in the same room you know somebody is gonna get screwed.
That is heartbreaking. Could you get the building and/or boat house on the national historical registry? Of ourse, that limits you to any development on the property as well, but that just means you have to get approval, not that you can't do it later.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Hey!! Nice thought Sportin'. :) That COULD work but it might take too long. Seems like the municipality is in a rush (trying to beat out the "environmental imapct study" as well). I do wish them luck though.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

The "only a few get hurt" usually seems OK in the bigger scheme of things ..... untill you become one of "a few". :squiggle:

[Blown 472]

Warning!! Warning!!! Danger Wil Robinson!!! Danger!! Danger!! We have a CONSPIRACY THEORIST on board.
That explains a lot. :chi:
Ok, follow along it might be kinda hard to understand seeing how you are blind to the real world. The court is sitting around one day bored and they say hey lets further errod the rights of property owners knowing full well this will be a very unpopular thing to do but they have not been infulanced by the admin, who just might have been influanced by the second largest contributor to their cause, who might that be you ask?? well big oil is the first and walmart is the second, now sit back and think about this for a bit, since walmart doesn't own the product they sell just the building and the land.

[Schiada76]

Ok, follow along it might be kinda hard to understand seeing how you are blind to the real world. The court is sitting around one day bored and they say hey lets further errod the rights of property owners knowing full well this will be a very unpopular thing to do but they have not been infulanced by the admin, who just might have been influanced by the second largest contributor to their cause, who might that be you ask?? well big oil is the first and walmart is the second, now sit back and think about this for a bit, since walmart doesn't own the product they sell just the building and the land.
Think for a minute.................................
This is not Bush's court he has no influence over it, that's why there is a seperation of powers in the first place. He has not even appointed a justice yet.
The FACT iof the matter is the LIBERAL justices voted for this, the conservatives against.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Ok, let's see if I can follow your facts...............
Case began in New London Conneticut.
New London ( a heavy Democrat state) wants more "much needed" (quoted from CNN article) tax $$$$ to spend on "HELPING" people (giveaway programs).
New London is a Dying Town. :
"New London has been and is classified by the state of Connecticut as a distressed municipality," City Attorney Thomas Londregan said. "When we lost the naval base, we lost about 18,000 jobs." (CNN 23 Feb)
"In the New London case, city officials there argue that eminent domain also should apply to "economic development" even if done privately since it would increase tax revenue and improve the local economy." (CNN 23 Feb)
Now, George, in all his kindness, got his "buddies" (?!?!?!?!!?!?) in the Supreme court to come to the aid of New London, in a state which did not support him in EITHER election (so he is buying them off for what reason????)
I suppose to "settle" with them over what the BIPARTISAN BRAC board did to them????
"It wants to build a conference center, hotel complex, offices, condominiums, and eventually, an aquarium in New London," (CNN 23 Feb)
Oh, and the Wal-Mart they neglected to mention I guess (Bushes #2 contributor)
Oh, by the way, I looked up Bush's 2004 contributors. FEC Figures
(probably changed by more of Bush's "buddies" even though the employees ALL predate his term.)
TOP 20 CONTRIBUTORS 2004:
MBNA Corp $240,675
Vinson & Elkins $202,850
Credit Suisse First Boston $191,400
Ernst & Young $179,949
Andersen Worldwide $145,650
Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co $144,900
Merrill Lynch $132,425
PricewaterhouseCoopers $127,798
Baker & Botts $116,121
Citigroup Inc $114,300
Goldman Sachs Group $113,999
Enron Corp $113,800
Bank of America $112,500
KPMG LLP $107,744
Jenkens & Gilchrist $105,450
Enterprise Rent-A-Car $97,498
State of Texas $87,254
American General Corp $84,134
Deloitte & Touche $81,600
AXA Financial $79,725
Find me "Big Oil", or "Wal-Mart".
It's the Who's Who in credit, banking and financing.
Enron, OK, #12. Lot more than oil there.
Wanna play some more blown? At least I review my facts before posting them. (big oil, sheeeesh)
Face it Blown, your enemy George had nothing to do with the Supreme Court Hijacking the US Constitution.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

By the way Blown, where's the property Wal-Mart is going to sell to New London?
"This area had a junkyard, which had to be cleaned up at great expense," Londregan said. "They had oil tanks, commercial big storage tanks. There is a railroad yard down there." (CNN 23 Feb)
A junkyard, Commercial oil storage tanks and a rail yard. I didn't realize Wal-Mart was branching out into rail and (oh ... here it is.... ) "big oil' (tanks).

[Forkin' Crazy]

Valiant attempt, SLSS, but you are beating a "dead horse" (blown).
"Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already got my mind made up!" :yuk:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Quite true Forkin', but I hadn't beaten any dead horses in a while and was inthe mood for some exercise. :D :D :D :D

[Blown 472]

Valiant attempt, SLSS, but you are beating a "dead horse" (blown).
"Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already got my mind made up!" :yuk:
Time will tell.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I'm just waiting to see if the developer gets the property the justices house is on. :crossx: That happens and they'll reverse this one like lightning struck.

[Blown 472]

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/domination.html

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Cali is already doing it. Not wasting ANY time. Oakland, California City, Allover the country.
http://www.emdo.blogspot.com/
Above link has coppies of new articles all over the US in last couple months.

[kahanamoko]

Yeah. To hell with the fact that the whole eminent domain thing is the law and supported by that damn constitution thing. Yeah. And perhaps to hell with the whole constitution thing too. Yeah. Ya know, we should just let the republicans rewrite the constitution too. Yeah. That's it.

[Seadog]

What most people do not seem to realize is that the lawsuit was brought by a couple that had bought their house only a few years before the city condemned it. It was in an area that was considered on its way to become a blighted neighborhood. And I doubt that it was much of a house since it was only worth $50,000 when they bought it in 95. For Connetticut that is dirt cheap. When the city made the offers, the couple did not even try to negotiate with them. They went immediately to lawsuit.