Berkley pump 101

[Jet Novice]

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a 75 18' Hawaiian with a Berkley pump. The ID tag is missing and I am not really sure what pump I have.
It is not a split bowl and the steering nozzle does not have the nylon o-ring. I've seen pictures of the different pumps on the Berkley site but quite honestly they all look the same to me.
What do I look for to get a positive ID this pump? Help!! Thanks.

[Jet Novice]

Looked at the pictures again, its either a JC or a JG. How to tell the difference? Were all JG's spit bowls? Is the JC as good as the JG?
I'm just getting into jets so I've got a ton of "back-to-basic" questions. Thanks for your patience guys.

[Slick]

JN, a Berkeley JC is a one-piece bowl and a JG is a two-piece bowl. Here is an example of Berk JC: http://www.cpperformance.com/images/150-B-06470.jpg
And this is an example of a JG: http://www.cpperformance.com/images/150-B-07338.jpg

[1quickjet]

Not to interfere with novice's question, but Slick, what seals the nozzle housing to the bowl on the JG? Is it just a bead of silicone, or some sort of gasket?

[DickDanger]

1QJ,
No worries on asking questions here. These guys have been answering just about any dumbass question that I could think up for a few months now. If you are just getting into jets, you are in the right place. Good luck!!! -DD out http://www.plauder-smilies.de/party/drinka.gif

[Boater Bill]

There is a gasket on mine. FYI my pump is a JB and the bowl looks the same as a JG. Maybe the prev owner changed bowls.

[LeadFootTheRabbit]

Slick, thanks for the jet pics. I just learned a little about my pump.
Heres a question... What do you guys mean when you talk about the shoe?
LDFTRBT

[nelsonf]

BB a JB is the same as a JG just an earlier model

[Jet Novice]

From a performance standpoint is there any difference between the JC and the JG. And, would there be any advantage/reason to find a split bowl to replace the JC bowl?
Again, the boat is an 18" Hawaiian.

[froggystyle]

Originally posted by LeadFootTheRabbit:
Heres a question... What do you guys mean when you talk about the shoe?
LDFTRBT
LDFTRBT,
On some performance applications, usually involving a "set-back" jet, a step is machined into the rear of the intake on your pump. Into this relief is bolted a machined piece of aluminum designed to affect the flow of water going into the pump. It can either shovel water in to the pump, and increase intake pressure (also creating some drag BTW) or divert water away from the intake causing lift in the rear (back-cut shoe) In most applications, you then bolt a ride plate to this device, which will extend out the rear of the boat and provide the boat a more rearward riding location to plane on. This plate is also able to be adjusted to affect your ride attitude. The overall effect is to get more boat out of the water by distributing more weight back further, and allowing less wetted area to come in contact with the boat when on step.
In short, the shoe itself is an intake tuning device, and the plate is a ride tuning device.
Jet Novice,
The real advantage of a split bowl is aftermarket parts. Place makes a diverter for a one-piece bowl, but as I understand it, the diverter is after the turning pivot, so you get some awkward action in the rear if you are diverted and applying power in a hard turn, the diverter has more leverage at that point. In addition, you will be unable to bolt on a "droop" extension to your pump.
I have both devices, and now swear by both for my application. If you had a heavier boat, I would advise you to switch bowls and get a droop. With an 18'er though, you probably get plenty of lift, and run hard enough as it is. The diverter I feel should come standard on all jets. It is hands down the most influential bolt on I have ever used.
Squirts up!
As a note, this is a picture of a large 21' V with pretty stout power at full throttle. http://www.ultraboats.com/ultra/html/gallery/events/galleryone/images/21%20XS7.JPG
If you look closely, you can see that the rear chines are damn near 10" out of the water, and most of the boat is aired out. That boat has a ride plate, shoe, droop and diverter. All work towards getting that boat up in the air, and moving faster because of less resistance.
More pics at... http://www.ultraboats.com/ultra/html/gallery/events/galleryone/index.htm
[This message has been edited by froggystyle (edited November 20, 2001).]

[HBjet]

Unless your pump is in need of a rebuild, just by bolting on a split bowl you will not notice a difference in performance. The advantages of a split bowl are that you can add a droop snoop and some wedge between the bowl and the nozzle. The JG is most prefered because your not as limited as you are with a JC when it comes to modifications. If you are happy with your pumps performance, I would suggest buying a Place Diverter rather then switching the bowls. By adding the diverter you can play with the trim of the boat, freeing it up from the water to gain some speed, and you can trim it down to minimize your bow rise when getting out of the hole. But lets not forget, we all buy Place Diverters for the main reason of throwing back a huge rooster tail. Good Luck.
HBjet

[HBjet]

Originally posted by froggystyle:
Place makes a diverter for a one-piece bowl, but as I understand it, the diverter is after the turning pivot, so you get some awkward action in the rear if you are diverted and applying power in a hard turn, the diverter has more leverage at that point.
Hey Froggy, I thought Place made one standard diverter model both for the JC & JG and both are after the turning pivot? Anyway, I know I never have the diverter up when making any hard turns, I could see that getting awkward too. BTW, Nice Picture! That thing is out of the water nicely. What speed was that at?
HBjet

[Slick]

Wes, we were talking a while back about what was going to work with your setup. Do you feel, in your own experience, that a similiar setup would be beneficial to my boat. The pump is going to be completely gone through with an inducer added. I'm currently running Chevy 502, 440hp, Holley 850dp, Berk JC, SS"A", place diverter, shoe and ride plate. Due to over all $$$ I'm putting into the boat to get it back on the water, it would probably be one thing at a time, starting with the JG bowl. Or should I stick with what I've got? These are pictures of of what my hull looks like. Somoeone elses boats. http://members.aol.com/r8derfan47/images/setup.jpg
http://www.***boat.net/class/9403210729c.jpg
Thanks,
Slick
[This message has been edited by Slick (edited November 20, 2001).]

[Havasu Hangin']

Hey Slick, I am by no means a jet expert. However, I can say that I don't think it will work well on that boat.
It has an outdrive. http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy06.gif
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy25.gif

[rivercrazy]

Wes. In your experience, what specific performance benefits does a set back installation with a ride plate and machined shoe have over a more standard (non set back no ride plate or shoe). For example sake say its on a boat like Ultra's 21XT.
Thanks!

[Slick]

Hardy Harr Harr

[HBjet]

Originally posted by Slick:
The pump is going to be completely gone through with an inducer added. I'm currently running Chevy 502, 440hp, Holley 850dp, Berk JC, SS"A", place diverter, shoe and ride plate. Due to over all $$$ I'm putting into the boat to get it back on the water, it would probably be one thing at a time, starting with the JG bowl. Or should I stick with what I've got?
Slick, I know this question was intended for Wes, but I want to comment on something. The cav-reducer is going to help you out for sure because of the size and weight of your boat. I wonder though if an Aluminum impeller would help you out with quicker acceleration and maybe a higher top end speed? Now about your pump bowl. If you don't need a droop then your JC will be just fine. There is now advantage in performance just by changing the bowl to a split, there is only an advantage as to what you can add to it later. I would find out what works with your hull using similar power, and then make your decisions from there. There is no point to having a split bowl if you are never going to add a droop. A diverter is a must though for a boat like that. Good Luck!
HBjet

[spectras only]

1quickjet, someone asked the same question before.There's a gasket between the bowl and the nozzle.The mating surfaces are good ,so silicon can be used like on newer vehicles without gaskets also.

[Slick]

Randy,
You are 100% correct. I'm going to go ahead with the rebuild as is to see how it rides with the current setup and new inducer. Already have place diverter. I do remember the boat riding pretty heavy in the water though. Never thought about the weight difference for the Aluminum vs Stainless. I'm hoping the rebuild will give me some additional flow. If I'm happy, great. I'm not willing to drop another $1,000+ for new bowl & droop for a couple mph.

[froggystyle]

Originally posted by HBjet:
Hey Froggy, I thought Place made one standard diverter model both for the JC & JG and both are after the turning pivot?
You are right. I am wrong. I heard something a while back and never really followed up on what they were talking about. My bad.
What speed was that at?
Upper 70's. Runs pretty good. Next step of the testing is a tricker impeller and stuffer. After that, it gets a cut to see what, if any, that gets us.

[froggystyle]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Slick:
Wes, we were talking a while back about what was going to work with your setup. Do you feel, in your own experience, that a similiar setup would be beneficial to my boat? Thanks,
Slick
You are already mostly there bro. I would not waste any money on the split bowl. Not yet anyway. Run what you have. I would not worry too much about the additional weight of the SS, as the stock, out of the box detailing (which is a big deal BTW) is way superior to Aluminum. That pre-loader is going to help big time. I have seen real bottom-end performance increases with a very similar boat using only the pre-loader addition.
I had a lot of sucess with handling, speed and driveablity with the addition of the droop. As you can see by the pics, it got out of the water with attitude. What I would do, is keep an eye out for a split bowl, used maybe. I do think the droop would work well in your boat, but perhaps not to the tune of $1,000 extra dollars, plus the cost of the droop.
Rivercrazy,
Other than the fact that it allows a shoe and ride plate, I have seen similar handling with boats that have a stock setup, but with the Place droop that has an integrated adjustable ride plate. I think the shoe might actually be hurting me right now, as it may be overloading my intake at these speeds, and causing drag. Not sure though. We will be putting a bowl pressure gauge on the bowl this week to see what that gets us. Hope this helped.
Squirts up.

[HBjet]

Slick, I just found out that you wouldn't notice a difference in acceleration or top end with aluminum vs stainless impeller, but you could run an aluminum and have no problems. Lucky you, you got yourself a stainless, hey, if you wanted to save some money, I know of a guy who needs to buy a stainless A cut for his boat...
HBjet

[Slick]

Randy, thanks for the 411. I think I'll stick with the Stainless. We'll see how she runs next season. If I decide to keep her for the long haul I'll need the SS impeller. I might just have to redline her next October so I have another winter project. Twin turbos??? Maybe.
Later
Slick

[1quickjet]

Thanks SpectrasOnly, I am going to remove the wedge this weekend, will give the silicone a try.

[PC Rat]

Froggy,
I am curious about installing the bowl pressure guage- how, where etc. - drill and tap for a sender?
If you are concerned about overloading the pump, wouldn't the intake be a more suitable place for a pressure guage?
Wouldn't the bowl pressure guage benefit more for lack of loading or nozzle tuning?

[LeadFootTheRabbit]

Froggy, thanks for the information. I'm new to jet boats. I bought one to play with when I'm working in Blythe. My other toy is a Howard flat V drive w/ big block ford. I have alot to learn about jets
thankyou LDFTRBT

[froggystyle]

Originally posted by PC Rat:
Froggy,
I am curious about installing the bowl pressure guage- how, where etc. - drill and tap for a sender?
If you are concerned about overloading the pump, wouldn't the intake be a more suitable place for a pressure guage?
Wouldn't the bowl pressure guage benefit more for lack of loading or nozzle tuning?
Not entirely sure myself. From what I have gleaned from Mike, The bowl pressure should be a within a certain psi range for a given RPM/nozzle size/impeller. He has the formula pretty much down, and claims that knowing the bowl pressure will tell you about intake pressure as well. Above the range will indicate too much bowl pressure, either because of an over aggressive loader grate, or improperly designed shoe. This pressure actually reduces the impellers efficiency supposedly, although I don't see how to be honest. In addition, a poor bowl pressure could indicate cavitation, air leak, or water blowing by a loose wear ring. Either way, the bowl gauge will tell. I don't know where it is plumbed, or how, but Mike's sounds portable. I think he may be able to do it without drilling and tapping. Dunno. I will cough up the specs next Tuesday when everyone is back from Thanksgiving.
Squirts up!

[SOUTHWIND377]

The intake pressure is all I would be concerned about I have my pump tapped on the suction housing half way between the intake and the hand cover at about 11:00 if looking towards the back of the boat. During wide open throttle I have about 25 psi. But I have a big loader and I am nozzled down to 3 1/8". I don't know the exact specs on different combinations of loaders and nozzles but I due no that there is an I ideal range to run in and overloading the pump will only cause you to lose efficiency.

[PC Rat]

Froggystyle,
Did you find out anymore information about mounting the bowl pressure gauge or a suction pressure gauge? Mounting locations or ideal pressures?

[Bense468]

Do you just use an electric oil pressure gauge and sender to keep an eye on the pressure of the pump. Is it bowl pressure or intake pressure? I would think that if you are worried about to muxh pressure at the impeller it would be the intake. But I have also heard people say bowl pressure. You need to find the right bowl pressure but still have volume. But you do that with nozzle reducers. So keeping an eye on intake pressure is something to think about I guess. You may be pushing to much water without spinning your impeller enough to rid of the water. To big of shoe with not enough balls.

[Bense468]

Do you just use an electric oil pressure gauge and sender to keep an eye on the pressure of the pump. Is it bowl pressure or intake pressure? I would think that if you are worried about to muxh pressure at the impeller it would be the intake. But I have also heard people say bowl pressure. You need to find the right bowl pressure but still have volume. But you do that with nozzle reducers. So keeping an eye on intake pressure is something to think about I guess. You may be pushing to much water without spinning your impeller enough to rid of the water. To big of shoe with not enough balls.

[Bense468]

1quickjet are you the guy that is running the white performance at Big River? And if so do you know Carl? He had a performance at big river. He was running a preassure gauge off his pump. Do you know how it was set up?

[1quickjet]

Nope, not me. Don't know Carl either. Blue, white and gray Advantage on Parker. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif