help rail kit/ bellhousing/flywheel cover

[atxwrangler]

i bought a rail kit and just sizing it up for installation, it looks as if i install the back engine plate to the back of the engine, then bolt the bellhousing behind that,the starter probably won't be able to enguage the flywheel because of the added 1/2" , the rear engine plate is made of.can anyone clarify this for me? thanks in advance! :idea:

[atxwrangler]

HELLO ELLO ELLO ELLO, WHERE IS EVERYONE? :hammer2:

[wsuwrhr]

i bought a rail kit and just sizing it up for installation, it looks as if i install the back engine plate to the back of the engine, then bolt the bellhousing behind that,the starter probably won't be able to enguage the flywheel because of the added 1/2" , the rear engine plate is made of.can anyone clarify this for me? thanks in advance! :idea:
I'm lost here, are you running a Big Block Chevy?
The starter bolts to the block. You shouldn't have any problems with engagement of the flywheel/flexplate.
Elaborate on your setup
Brian

[sanger rat]

Sounds like he is trying to hook up a top mount starter bellhousing to his motor plate.

[atxwrangler]

i,m sorry, i am running a big block ford, and trying to install a bottom mount starter. :hammerhea

[sanger rat]

Why are you saying the flywheel is moved a 1/2 in.? I'm just trying to understand what you are telling us.

[wsuwrhr]

i,m sorry, i am running a big block ford, and trying to install a bottom mount starter. :hammerhea
You are making it hard for me to help you out.
Does the starter bolt to the block or bellhousing?
Not a Ford freak...Brian

[atxwrangler]

the starter usually bolts to the bellhousing ,if you put a 1/2 '"plate in between the starter and bellhousing, the starter bendix will only reach out as far as it did before.would it hit the motor plate? question is can i run a regular bellhousing with a rail kit, or do i have to purchase a flywheel cover? :eat:

[sanger rat]

I had know idea that Ford starters mount to the bellhousing on the bottom. I've seen them on top on the bellhousing. Sounds like you are going to need a flywheel cover.

[atxwrangler]

thanks guys, i appreciate the help, sorry, if i confused everybody! :cry:

[sanger rat]

Don't freak out yet! Do you have any pics so we can see whats going on? So far you are getting help from a Chevy and a Mopar guy. I'm sure the Ford boys will be along shortly.

[atxwrangler]

i don't have any pics now, and i am going out of town tomorrow. i may post some next week! thanks again.hey , my buddy here in victoria :p has a sanger jet hydro like yours, he has a badass 532 ford built for it, he is about 4 or 5 thousand away from completing the total resto on it. sweet boat!

[atxwrangler]

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/10376old_computer_pics_050-med.jpg here is a pic!

[atxwrangler]

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/10376Hondo_016-med.jpg and another :rollside:

[sanger rat]

Nice. Can you PM me his number. I would like to talk to him. That looks like the same boat I seen on web site but I couldn't find it again.

[wsuwrhr]

So far you are getting help from a Chevy and a Mopar guy. I'm sure the Ford boys will be along shortly.
The guy was freaking out about his problem so I thought I would try and help.
Brian

[sanger rat]

The guy was freaking out about his problem so I thought I would try and help.
Brian
Same here.

[dave186]

i think on the fords the starter bolts to the motor plate, so it would be right where it normally is. and yes, i have a ford,

[Squirtcha?]

the starter usually bolts to the bellhousing ,if you put a 1/2 '"plate in between the starter and bellhousing, the starter bendix will only reach out as far as it did before.would it hit the motor plate? question is can i run a regular bellhousing with a rail kit, or do i have to purchase a flywheel cover? :eat:
Here's what I did with my BBF when I made the conversion to the rail system. I made a sandwich out of the old bell housing and the new plate.
You can see the black magic marker lines indicating where I was going to have the "feet" and other areas not needed to be milled off. Basically I was left with a flywheel cover and the area where the pigs nose is (starter). The starter actually bolts to the rail plate and the old mount/bell housing is just used as a guard for the flywheel and starter. Six bolts hold on the old cover/mount, and also go through the rail plate/mount.
It worked out real slick, and best of all................it was free!
http://jetboat.homestead.com/files/flywheelcovert.jpg
In this picture you can see the two plates on the back of the block.
http://jetboat.homestead.com/files/inboat2backt.jpg
Truth is, I was having trouble finding a bell housing cover and when I finally did, I wasn't gonna pay that much for one.

[Mighty Thor]

Here is what I remember from the last truck set up. Normally The bell housing sits against the spacer that is sandwhiched between the block and bellhousing Spacer is not real thick but if you leave it out the starter will bind. When we switched to a frame mount we just made sure that the starter lined up in the same relationship by keeping the spacer. We used longer bolts to reach through the mounting plate into the bellhousing and had to have a tranny with a little longer input shaft to reach the clutch disk. As long as your starter stays in the same location relative to the block you should not have any problems by moving the bellhousing back, just add shims and longer bolts as needed. This assumes that there is not any interference between the rear plate and the starter.

[squirtcha?'s_son]

If u were to post up some pics on ur setup we might be able to help a little more. Try and take a couple of pics and post them up.

[atxwrangler]

i am going out of town this morning, will be back monday, can post some then. thanks ,you answered my question. i don't need a flywheel cover, . i can make the bellhousing work. :hammerhea

[atxwrangler]

sanger rat his name is duane mullinex, his number is 361-550-9667. call after 2 pm. we are going to de rio and we won't be back till monday, you could call him them. he has had the boat since high school.

[Jetmugg]

The starter in my Gullwing (460 Powered) bolts right through the rear motor plate. JakeW made the plate, and it includes the big hole for the nose of the starter to sit through, and the two smaller holes to actually mount the starter.
I don't have any pics right now, but the starter mounts solidly and lines up good. If I want to race it, however, I'll need a separate flywheel cover. I do like Squirtcha's idea of using a cast housing as the flywheel cover as well.
SteveM.

[sanger rat]

Thanks ATX. Hey Jetmugg. Did you buy Jakes boat?

[Jetmugg]

Yep. I actually sold the boat to Jake somewhere about 2 years ago, and just bought it back from him.
I've been hitting it fairly hard, and should be back on the water within a week or so. It won't be "finished" cosmetically, but it will be mechanically sound and ready to run.
SteveM.

[sanger rat]

Cool. Keep us updated. I miss seeing that boat being built.

[Jetmugg]

I've got the pump and brace in, the transom plates on and sealed, the engine in, the seats in, the forward/neutral/reverse controls in, the throttle pedal in. I still need to plumb the water system, mount the fuel tank, plumb the fuel system, and wire it.
If I stay busy on it all weekend, I think it's going to get wet next week.
I need to take some pics this weekend, and get them posted.
I'm really hoping for 80mph on the motor. (It came with a nitrous setup, but I'm a little scared to use it with a basically stock 460.)
SteveM.

[Squirtcha?]

(It came with a nitrous setup, but I'm a little scared to use it with a basically stock 460.)
SteveM.
Does it have forged pistons Steve? Mine's basically stock other than the pistons and some added ring gap, and I've been hitting it with the N20 for going on five seasons now.
Don't be skeert. Do it up!

[flat broke]

ATX. If the bellhousing you have now has provisions for a bottom mount starter, just run down to the parts store, grab a stater for a 69 Lincoln and mount it downstairs. Make a blockoff plate for the old top mount hole and call it a day. I think this is basically what Squirtcha was sayin, but I've got a bad case of ADD today and blew through the thread ;) If you go the bottom mount starter route, make sure you install the ford alignment dealy (the stamped steel thing that sandwiches between the block and the rail kit plate) Otherwise the starter will oblong holes in the aluminum plate and result in engangement issues down the road.
Basically, use your current bellhousing as the flywheel cover in conjunction with a bottom mount starter.
Chris

[Jetmugg]

Dan:
I'm 98% sure that it still has the stock cast pistons. Jake told me that as far as he knows, the heads have never been off. I need to get it out and see how it runs before hooking up the Nitrous. No sense in exploding the engine on the very first trip to the river.
What's this Ford "alignment" thingy I just read about? I wasn't aware that there was any adjustment or shimming, or aligning available for Ford starters.
SteveM.

[Squirtcha?]

I think what Chris was talking about is more like a backing plate. From his description, it's to keep the starter from walking around and elongating the holes in the aluminum plate.
I don't have one and never did, I checked my starter mount after a couple seasons of running and the holes looked o.k., but I gotta say............It might not be such a bad idea.
I'm hip to the holding off thing Steve. I honestly think you'd be fine with a 100-150 shot (even with the hypereutetic pistons). It's like 6-8 mph difference respectively!

[ONAROLL]

ATX,
I just went through this with my BBF in a narrow tunnel jet, the slickest thing I have seen is Doug Eagle's (Hoffman Eagle), fabrication, top or bottom mount starter, works either way, its his part/idea so I would not feel comfortable giving it up, but he has been away from his shop working, so getting one from him I think would be difficult, if you need any help PM me and I will walk you through what I did, very strong, simple, bolts directly to your rails, actually I stole my idea from OkieDave's Cheyenne.........Vic
Include you phone number in the PM and I call on the company dime.....

[atxwrangler]

thanks, flat broke, and all you other guys.i will post more tomorrow,i'm tired , just got in from del rio. will read more thouroughly tomorrow. :cry: