Are America's best days behind us?

[Mandelon]

I get an odd feeling when thinking about the future of our country.
I wonder whats going to happen when all the jobs are exported ....only service industry will be left....can a country survive on lawsuits and insurance sales? Don't we need to export stuff?
China and India are getting more powerful and will be flexing their fiscal power more and more.
Is a global economy really what we need? I think we will end up like a Norther European country....with high taxes to support all the social programs.
Too much greed, too much consumerism, even our local congressman who has seemed so above board for so many years is now in the midst of a bribery and kickback investigation. Ol' Duke Cunningham is in it up to his elbows it seems.
Sure communism is defeated but our oil dependency is going to hang us someday..
Perhaps we will invent some cool new technology like fuel cells or something....they won't sound like big block power but they might be faster...
Someone cheer me up. :rolleyes:

[HOSS]

We`re phuced, its over, be happy the previous generations were happy.

[HOSS]

Oh yeah, thank all the protesters from the 60`s and their civil rights crusades. Beet up a hippie,,,it won`t make you money,,,but it`ll sure feel good.

[cdog]

I get an odd feeling when thinking about the future of our country.
I wonder whats going to happen when all the jobs are exported ....only service industry will be left....can a country survive on lawsuits and insurance sales? Don't we need to export stuff?
China and India are getting more powerful and will be flexing their fiscal power more and more.
Is a global economy really what we need? I think we will end up like a Norther European country....with high taxes to support all the social programs.
Too much greed, too much consumerism, even our local congressman who has seemed so above board for so many years is now in the midst of a bribery and kickback investigation. Ol' Duke Cunningham is in it up to his elbows it seems.
Sure communism is defeated but our oil dependency is going to hang us someday..
Perhaps we will invent some cool new technology like fuel cells or something....they won't sound like big block power but they might be faster...
Someone cheer me up. :rolleyes:
Strange how you and I are in the same sort of business and we have such a simular out look on the future. We do have a choice....But it's gonna take a small revolution to be heard and taken seriously. And when I look around I don't see too many people who are willing to put there ass's on the line to make a differance. Everyone's got the "I got mine" attitude. Well, Our goverment has sold us down the river, Unions and Ceo's greed has run our american business into the ground, they don't care if the company's gonna BK in 5 years as long as the stock is good today and tommarrow, Prices are high and quality is low, and oil needs to be replaced by bio fuel and methinol..
I know americans come in all races and colors, but when I look around my neighborhood and community I see everyone who is'nt white bringing their culture and making it more important than blending into american society. That tells me that they want to make OUR country the same shit hole that they left. As that continues to happen we as a county will fade into this so called world economy and then obscurity.....I saw several mexican gardeners mowing lawns yesterday and the indian guy who ouns the ups store was working.....Goes to show how important the 4th was to them.....I'd bet the mexi's were not working on the 5th of may. I feel that most of our issues today are social issues. Go to the south........You'll see some real americans there.

[Mandelon]

I am going to get some Buy American stickers made up and pass em out. Hard to find American made stuff anymore. I went for a slow run this morning and paid attention to the cars I saw in people's driveways.
Some had only American cars, but they were in the minority. Most had Hondas Toyotas a couple Hyundais and a subaru or two. The Mercedes and Bimmers are in the garages... :rolleyes: One guy had 5 white Fords..
I don't think we're gonna have some major collapse, but our days of being the biggest dog are numbered. The southwest is gonna be Aztlan again eventually. They have a plan and its only a matter of time.
CDog did you get down to Mission Bay? I was out on Sunday afternoon and for the fireworks show. Were you around?

[mickeyfinn]

unfortunately if we want to fix what is wrong it will take some pain. With the liberal view and the silver spoon generation coming up, I am afraid that any politician with the guts to try and make the needed changes will be booted out or assasinated. There is a fix but it does involve a good deal of pain in the short term. (5-10) years. A major development in an alternative fuel would be a great boost, but moving to a protectionist economy is the only real fix I see. With the country in the shape it is now with the service industry being the predominant industry and the lack of manufacturing of goods or raw materials it is a slow spiral down hill unless changes are made. The best analogy I have heard is this:
One country all service industry, the other with lots of manufacturing. The first country wants to buy furniture. The second country says okay, it will cost you 25 dramas. The first country says I don't use dramas, I use lamos, how many lamos will it take to buy your furniture. The second country says, well what can I get for your lamos. The first country says, well for 10 lamos you can get a haircut, for 50 you can get your grass cut. At this point the second country starts laughing and says, sorry I'm not traveling across the world for a haircut.
Kind of simplistic but in general it sounds pretty accurate. We MUST crank up the manufacturing industries again and the only way to do that is through import tarriffs, at least in the short term. Textiles and steel first, then continue with the goods manufacturing. As it stands now if we were to need to crank up the war machine and start producing tanks, airplanes or other heavy steel users chances are we will be at war with one of the major suppliers of that raw material. That is not a good position to be in.

[Rexone]

I couldn't agree with you guys more. Sorry no cheery news Mandy. It's on a downhill slide and I dunno if anyone can stop it now, the short term "greed and spend" mentality is firmly in charge in this country and elsewhere for that matter (emerging countries selling us all their crap).
I'll say it again, IT's all about money (greed, whatever you want to call it). Short term "now" economics, what my stocks worth, look how much shit I own, look at my gigantic house, look at my 3 acres of toys, my stocks split 3 times and my house has tripled in value, yada yada yada. Bottom line is sooner or later you gotta pay up and you gotta produce something besides outsourcing and insurance and brokerages for overseas made crap. Our US manufacturing base is going to shit. Why... money. Why... our shortsighted government has allowed it. Why... good economy now with record profits on paper = getting re-elected. We're so spoiled as a society in general we won't even pick our own crops any more or mow our own lawn, gotta let illegals do it.
The awakening will come and it will be very harsh when it does to a society that for a large part has not experienced the downside of years of excess. Kids and grandkids gonna have a tough road to hoe because the politicians of today are eroding the infrastructure of our manufacturing and production base. Place is gonna be a shithole if some jackass from middle east doesn't blow it to hell first (which I half expect will happen).
:squiggle:
(an I'm an optimist by nature). really.
IMO to directly answer your question, Yes I think the best time is history based on everything I see happening and what I've seen in the past 52 years to use as comparison. One problem is that the younger gen coming up doesn't see a problem, it's party hardy and shop till you drop and where's my raise, for a large part. Not too many people left alive experienced the great depression or WW2 and the challenges and difficulties and strife those times represented.

[bigq]

I agree with most, but it's not just the liberals. What about our own President getting chummy with Mexico. I never thought about it much till i look at my 10 and 5 year and wonder what world they will be living in. :cry:
One way is if we start to purchse made in the USA products and get manufacturing going again. I may sound a little nuts, but I believe China is setting us up for a big fall when we least expect it.I can only hope that our leaders know what they are doing and can read between the lines. :notam:

[ROZ]

I agree with most, but it's not just the liberals. What about our own President getting chummy with Mexico. I never thought about it much till i look at my 10 and 5 year and wonder what world they will be living in. :cry:
One way is if we start to purchse made in the USA products and get manufacturing going again. I may sound a little nuts, but I believe China is setting us up for a big fall when we least expect it.I can only hope that our leaders know what they are doing and can read between the lines. :notam:
Like I said in another thread. The whose who in government have known this was comming and have no solution. They feared that making waves years ago would have provolked China to drop us like a 2 ton rock back then, and now the rock weighs 10 tons... So much of the worlds market are somewhat influenced by the dollar that it's not even close to being funny. Think of the billions of dollars of aid that to other countries will be highly devalued or worthless.. China's money has even less value. China is consuming resouces faster than anyone. Their factories consume so much energy that they can be shut down a couple times a week... Some factories have retrofitted huge generators to power up, but the downfall is air quality with so many genny's running.. I think they have 2 or 3 nuclear reactors being built to generate power... So all you pinko greenpeace ozone freaks should be pounding on China's door, not ours :D
I don't know about you, but I'd rather have our president being chummy with mexican president trying to get the cheap mfg from China to Mexico... Shipping costs would be a heck of a lot less, too..... Now we know why he mentions North America as one concept going... Canada(they have China problems,too) and US can use Mexico rather than just letting illgals come here to use up our rescources...With MANY factories there, maybe there will be some better jobs for them to stay home for...

[Red Horse]

The global economy is cyclic. May take a few hundred years, but we will have another depression. Yes, I agree thigs are gonna get bad and when it happens, it will happen quick. The best thing one can do is own things and keep some cash for those approching rainy days. Once we understand as a nation that we should not get paid 35 bucks an hour for doing a menial task in the steel mill or any other job then things will get better. But it will take an effort on everyones part and I dont think people as a whole are willing to do what is best for the nation. THey dont see it that way. ME ME ME, I I I. What is the quote. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Wait till we do slide into depression and see how many say its the governments fault. Well it is everybodys fault in some way. :)

[Jeanyus]

OK you guys are depressing me. We live in the greatest country on earth.
Look at Africa,the middle east, Europe, Mexico, China, anyone want to live in these countries ? I didn't think so. Have you ever been through a depression or a world war ? Have you ever been hungry ?
I remember my parents haveing similer conversations 35 years ago, but most of my generation succeded.
This may cheer you up. China penalizes families for having more than 1 child.
The Chinese culture likes boys, so they abort all the females(and all the pro abortion people want to talk about female rights). What are 3 billion teenage boys going to do, With no teenage girls around? They are gonna kill each other. There I thought that would cheer you up.
PS don't hate me because I'm sarcastic.

[Freak]

OK you guys are depressing me. We live in the greatest country on earth.
Look at Africa,the middle east, Europe, Mexico, China, anyone want to live in these countries ? I didn't think so. Have you ever been through a depression or a world war ? Have you ever been hungry ?
I remember my parents haveing similer conversations 35 years ago, but most of my generation succeded.
This may cheer you up. China penalizes families for having more than 1 child.
The Chinese culture likes boys, so they abort all the females(and all the pro abortion people want to talk about female rights). What are 3 billion teenage boys going to do, With no teenage girls around? They are gonna kill each other. There I thought that would cheer you up.
PS don't hate me because I'm sarcastic.
LOL..too funny..

[lucky]

I agree with most, but it's not just the liberals. What about our own President getting chummy with Mexico. I never thought about it much till i look at my 10 and 5 year and wonder what world they will be living in. :cry:
One way is if we start to purchse made in the USA products and get manufacturing going again. I may sound a little nuts, but I believe China is setting us up for a big fall when we least expect it.I can only hope that our leaders know what they are doing and can read between the lines. :notam:
I do believe the shit's IS going to hit the fan ! I hope that i'm looking far enough ahead to stay away from the spray zone !! With, are "OPEN boarders " i do believe it's the United States - way to encourage a Cheap labor pool " Which makes me laugh as the forieners migrate into america and suck us dry - they start educating one another - and they become cheap labor on a short term basis ! For example -- we have a labor shortage in agg. ( picking crops - ) and also Trucking - --- bla bla bla - any Undesirable position ==== short term - and the better off on welfare - mentality -- If you want to live cheap and easy -- go back to where you came from - When i was around the mills- they got taxed and labored to death --- people where getting paid 15 bucks an hour to start -for literly pushing a button !!! ( dam unions lol ) well - guess what - to expensive - closed mill - Where did the the product go ?? same product - raw materials get shipped and processed over seas - then it gets shipped back as a finished -( shittier product ) but at half the cost -- shipping over + shipping back + trucking costs once it arrives and they can still call it profitable -- ohh yea we're in trouble -
I blame it on the railroad's -- way back in the 1800's I knew the chinese labor camps where a bad idea ! lmao ( ARM CHAIR QUARTER BACK , I AM )
my dad always told me - If ya had a big dick - your bound to fock yourself --
--- in context IT'S true ! -- some where along the line - it all catches up to you !!! watch out baby boomers -- or should i say( us )watch out depressionairs.... :squiggle:

[058]

I've been hearing alot of doom and gloom about China too but if history repeats itself then we have less to worry about than some say. Remember when Japan was THE economical powerhouse? They were going to rule the world, The center of world finance was going to be Tokyo, they bought up alot of US real estate in which they lost their asses because they spent way more than what the property was worth. I think China will implode because they have so many problems that they cannot solve. First of which is the people themselves, how long do you think they will continue busting their collective asses and getting next to nothing for it? The Communist govt. cannot have it both way, a free economy and keeping the "commie" control of the people, They will soon get tired of busting their ass and revolt in some sort of way, not with force but with labor slowdowns and perhaps even strikes. The factorys are required to shut down 2 days a week because they don't have the power to run them. That can change because they have some of the biggest hydro-electric projects in the world going on now. I think the biggest threat to us will be the money, when the yaun[sp] becomes as powerful as the dollar then we will have problems. The dollar was threatened when the Euro was suppose replace the dollar as a world currency but that is falling apart as we speak. The big threat was when Saddam was going to accept Euros or gold for oil and not dollars. So we kicked his ass :D We still control the world economy thru technology, food, finance and the control of raw materials. How long do you think China can continue paying $60+ dollars a barrel for oil? And since they have limited refining capacity [as we do too] Their demand for oil will increase and they have to go outside their borders for it. If we got shale oil refining started we could cut our oil import by more than half in just 3 to 5 years. 15 years ago the oil industry said that shale oil would be profitable when barrel price hit $30/barrel, adjust for inflation we are still under that $60.00 barrel. Oil just hit $61/barrel and it hasn't seriously effected our economy yet. How high will it go before it does? Nobody knows but I think it'll hurt China before it does us.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Oh yeah, thank all the protesters from the 60`s and their civil rights crusades. Beet up a hippie,,,it won`t make you money,,,but it`ll sure feel good.
ROFLMAO!

[ROZ]

I don't think the cost of oil will hurt China, because they'll wholesale it to themselves and put a slightly higher cost on exported oil. Just enough to help cover the margin loss... It's obvious that the country is hurting by not having enough of it at the moment. Will they be able to sustain growth without it(temporarily) is the question... They're working hard to get nuk power, but will they have enough capitol from their GNP to finish their projects if the US and a couple other countries reduce imports from China. Also, companies using China MFG's are hurting with having to shut down a couple times a week. Would those companies benefit by using cheap labor in Africa or Mexico? Maybe ....
As far as the Chinses standard of living goes.... It isn't as bad as it use to be...

[wsuwrhr]

I have said this on occasion on this board before.
When you buy something, however small it is, look and see where it is made.
Most companies list where products are made, I have finally convinced Christie to look at labels when she goes to the grocery store.
Things for your home, like when you go to home depot, are hard to find, but it is possible.
Make an affort, a serious conscious effort, it is a pain in the ass I know, but talk to the manager, tell them why you chose NOT to buy the products they sell.
Tell your kids why you are doing it, educate them why it is important.
I make an effort NOT to buy things made in a foreign country if the same product is made here. Prices may be higher, because it costs more to make it here.
We have liberated other countries based on our ability to unite for a greater good. We need to realize that OUR needs are important too.
For the naysayers that read this post....if you haven't been affected by this problem yet, don't worry, you will get your chance.
This is very important to me.
Brian

[lucky]

bravo

[spectras only]

I have said this on occasion on this board before.
When you buy something, however small it is, look and see where it is made.
Brian
I've been looking , no finding :wink: . Not to mention souvenirs like totem poles and canadian flags made in China WTF ? Got a few things at the pokerrun that I participated recently ,and was totally shocked when saw the shirt I got is made in canada :220v: .Haven't checked where the McGuire polishing kit bottles were made :wink:

[Mandelon]

So when the slopeheads buy Unocal who else is gonna quit buying fuel from them? :yuk:
I guess I'd rather have the money going to Mexico than China Is this about right: In China a worker costs $50.00 a month, in mex its $50 a week, and here its $50.00 an hour if you have healthcare and retirement benefits?

[Seadog]

I do think that things are going to get worse before they get better, but it is doubtful that we will get reduced to a second rate country. Because we are number one, we are a target. At some point in time, the expectations of our youth will be low enough that they will accept doing an honest day's work for a reasonable wage. No more nonsense of everyone being a computer game inventor/programmer. The smart kids will become welders, machinists and technicians.
Our politicians are going to have to make some tough decisions. The longer they wait, the harder it is going to be. GW is to be lauded for having the balls to push the needed changes, even if I disagree with some of his positions. We have to carefully put the brakes on on China and India. If we get too restrictive with our dealings with them, it is going to create another Japan of the 1930s. What is needed is to stand firm with them and give them advance notice what we consider unfair trade practices and what we will do if they continue to violate same. The next step is the hardest for a politician: We must stand firm on our position and not waiver from our path. Too many people are of the belief that anything can be negotiated, but sometimes it is necessary to realize that core beliefs cannot be negotiated.

[Freak]

I think our standard of living is going to come more in line with the rest of the rising nations. Which means it will fall somewhat.
I hope China’s economy has peaked out. I hope the apparent overcapacity story might cause an investment downturn and deflationary pressure.
As it has before China could tank. ----- Tank China Tank!!! :D

[HOSS]

I've been hearing alot of doom and gloom about China too but if history repeats itself then we have less to worry about than some say. Remember when Japan was THE economical powerhouse? They were going to rule the world, The center of world finance was going to be Tokyo, they bought up alot of US real estate in which they lost their asses because they spent way more than what the property was worth. I think China will implode because they have so many problems that they cannot solve. First of which is the people themselves, how long do you think they will continue busting their collective asses and getting next to nothing for it? The Communist govt. cannot have it both way, a free economy and keeping the "commie" control of the people, They will soon get tired of busting their ass and revolt in some sort of way, not with force but with labor slowdowns and perhaps even strikes. The factorys are required to shut down 2 days a week because they don't have the power to run them. That can change because they have some of the biggest hydro-electric projects in the world going on now. I think the biggest threat to us will be the money, when the yaun[sp] becomes as powerful as the dollar then we will have problems. The dollar was threatened when the Euro was suppose replace the dollar as a world currency but that is falling apart as we speak. The big threat was when Saddam was going to accept Euros or gold for oil and not dollars. So we kicked his ass :D We still control the world economy thru technology, food, finance and the control of raw materials. How long do you think China can continue paying $60+ dollars a barrel for oil? And since they have limited refining capacity [as we do too] Their demand for oil will increase and they have to go outside their borders for it. If we got shale oil refining started we could cut our oil import by more than half in just 3 to 5 years. 15 years ago the oil industry said that shale oil would be profitable when barrel price hit $30/barrel, adjust for inflation we are still under that $60.00 barrel. Oil just hit $61/barrel and it hasn't seriously effected our economy yet. How high will it go before it does? Nobody knows but I think it'll hurt China before it does us.
Where in the hell do you get you refining info. GreenPeace? Shale oil isn`t an easy fix. And with current technology your fuel will cost 7.00 a gallon. And I damn sure ain`t running with that crap in my motor.

[HOSS]

I told ya`ll,,,,,I like DEAN! I would have voted for him. No nonsense kinda guy. He made cool faces and gestures to boot. :cool:

[lucky]

I do think that things are going to get worse before they get better, but it is doubtful that we will get reduced to a second rate country. Because we are number one, we are a target. At some point in time, the expectations of our youth will be low enough that they will accept doing an honest day's work for a reasonable wage. No more nonsense of everyone being a computer game inventor/programmer. The smart kids will become welders, machinists and technicians..
Are you sure about that -- I can't even get my kids to take out the garbage ! lol
my daughter ( 11 ) brings home more a month than a chineese family - and thats just for feeding the goats and doing dishes lmao

[Mandelon]

Look at the older countries, ones that used to be world powers...France, England and Spain. They had their years of rule and the world passed them by. Same thing will happen to us, its just a matter of time.
China and India will be the next big thing. Driven by sheer numbers of consumers and our own stupidity to send them our jobs. Greed. Lack of nationalism.
Can't blame the liberals, its all the politicians and most of the Americans.... :squiggle: I don't think any big changes are coming soon, but 50 years from now who knows, a hundred......where is it written that US is the best? The social tendencies of our governing elite will drag us down to be like the washed up Euro countries.....high taxes, high unemployment, lots of social programs..... :boxingguy

[HOSS]

Social Programs? Like jump rope?

[Mandelon]

WIC, welfare, healthcare, day care, school lunches, other education adjuncts, yadda yadda
All those things that help families become more dependent on others and the government for support.

[Freak]

"Their leaders talked and talked and talked. But nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. The cities exploded. A whirlwind of looting, a firestorm of fear." -- Road Warrior, opening scene. :p

[HOSS]

OOOOHHHH,,,,I see where your going with this Freak. I kinda like it. I won`t have too many neighbors.
PS Don`t buy Federals only Remingtons.

[Freak]

Rem is one of my fav's. Why no buy one?