Need Advice

[77 Apollo]

Hi, I'm new to posting here on the forum. I have been reading for a few weeks now and love the site. I've had a 1977 Apollo Jet (Cabot, AR) for about 3 years. I was brought up by my dad on jets. He still has his 74 Marlin today and it looks like it did new. Anyway, the Apollo came with a 455, which has just blown. Sounds like this is a usual occurance. I'm not a mechanic, so I had a guy pull the motor and he tells me it's completely worn out. Id like to have it rebuilt and add some performance modifications such as ported heads, higher perf cam, etc. He tells me this will cost about 4 grand. After reading about Oldsmobiles, Im not sure I want to do this. My question is, how much would it cost me to go to a 454? I would want something with some modifications, but not a racer and ready to drop in the boat and go. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[FASTRAT]

if it were me...i would ck into a BBC 454 crate motor long block...then u could add the manif & carb & ign of ur choice & maybe a cam...i think the new crate mtrs come with a roller set-up...it might run u a bit over $4k...but...it will give u splendid performance & longevity...i know of a few people on here that have these set-ups & luv them...they also can help u with manif--carb--ign set-ups & anything else u will need for the chng over...just ask
fastrat

[Tim_T]

I still have my 455 if you need one. i think you called me when it was on ebay. Give me a call and we can probably work something out. 361-343-1773
Tim

[76ANTHONY]

when i built my 455 i didnt even come close to 4 grand, but i did the work myself. yes a 454 is a little over 4 grand but a very good engine. what blew on the engine or did the shop tell you? you can get alot of things for 4 grand. just depends on what you want to do with it.; :idea: :clover:

[77 Apollo]

Tim, it actually wasn't me who called.
The mechanic told me I spun a bearing, the cam is shot, and the cylinders are worn out. he is going to send it to a machine shop and have it worked on as well as put in polished heads, new cam, new pistons, basically all higher performance stuff. He's a buddy of my cousins and I dont' think hes ripping me off. Just don't want to spend the money on an Olds. Unfortunately, I need to make a decision today because I have a week long trip planned in a couple of weeks. I think Im going to have this one redone and put a bbc in later on. It's a sweet boat. When I learn to post pics, I'll show you guys.. Thanks for your help.
By the way, I wish we had lakes here in TN like the west coast. I almost got fired the other day looking through the pics in the sandbar.

[TJS]

If you are going to build the Olds now and then get a BBC chevy later why waste the money on the olds now. Find a BBC core locally and have the same thing done. Yes you might have to change the mounts, some wiring ,PTO and distributor as well. My Nordic was set up for a Ford (I bought it without a motor). So now I am building a BBC LS-6 I found. I am selling the Ford mounts, PTO and other Ford stuff it had in the hull to offset the cost of the mounts. I am going to get a rail mount kit from Duane at HTP soon and some other stuff. Right now I am concentrating on the motor. Have fun.
T.J.
www.tjsperformance.com

[76ANTHONY]

im with tjs, why spend money on something you dont want. im sure if you ask nice someone on here has a 454 they'll sell you.. :hammerhea

[Aluminum Squirt]

I'm certainly not the resident 455 expert but since you are in a hurry I'll try to break down a little of the info for you, most of which I've read in passing on this forum. If your friend is not a boat motor builder, don't let him do the rebuild on the 455. Not that he would try to screw you, but there are some very specific boat modifications that need to be made to a 455 to make it live. The oiling system needs to be addressed with a bigger pan and oil restrictors in numerous locations or the motor will pump out the pan and starve the motor for oil. This isn't the case for a car because they rarely run WOT for long and have a transmission to keep the RPM's down. If you are willing to make those modifications and your friend is capable, then the 455 would be fine as long as you realize you are not going to be building a 10 second boat anytime soon. If its a family oriented cruiser and you are comfortable with that, then make the oil mods and have fun. The BBC is probably a better choice because of all the options you have, parts availability, and if you decide you want to go fast then you can do it. The crate motors, specifically the ZZ502, have been great in river racing. There is a dedicated class for them and no modifications are permitted. The teams running in that class usually just change the oil and go. The motors are lasting pretty good and that's for 10-30 minutes at WOT. Good luck-Aluminum Squirt

[77 Apollo]

He has built some boat motors and even some jets. Ive also talked to him about alot of the stuff Ive read here as well and he seems to be right on top of it. So, Im not that worried about his expertise. Its not a family boat. Don't know if youve seen Apollos, but they are basic low profile jets. that's the reason i want some speed. But, Im not looking to break records. Im still weighing my options. One question.. If I bought a BBC ready to drop in, how much work is involved in adapting to my current setup?

[SmokinLowriderSS]

454 used motor, all the time in my newspapers, under 1,000
Rebuild with good bearings, rings, all gaskets,$400
IF you need a bore job & pistons, (my 300 hr rebuild did not) $800
Cam kit of your choice (with lifters, springs, retainers, shims) $400 (mine) to $1000
Good intake under $300
Exhaust manifolds ..... lots avail for 454's used from folks like on here .. upper reach, Lightning Thru-Transom Headers $1800
Likely make a strong, solid as steel 454 for arround $3,000, if not less (up to arround 500 HP, more power = more $$$$)
I've been running the same Hydraulic liftered, cast piston, cast crank, stock oil pan/pump/etc 454 for 27 years between 4800 & 5300 RPM, including 150HP nitrous. 330HP original, 400Hp now, plus 150 N2O. Reliable as the sun rising in the East ever since 1978.

[77 Apollo]

what do you guys think about this motor? any idea on what it's worth?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4560537427&category=50442&sspagename=WDVW
im starting to lean to bbc. one thing you forgot to include in your calc is labor..i can't do it.

[BUSBY]

Um, you are not going to get that for $4000 ... notice that he has over $10k invested? I would say his reserve is set at least at $8500.
IMO, my.02

[maxwedge]

Nice motor, but it's gonna sell for way more than $4000.
How about I just sell you the bone stock, crappy, used 455 out of my 76 Sidewinder for about $2500. It's old, ugly, has about three million hours on it, still makes good power, uses no oil, and I really wish it would just blow up like a normal Oldsmobile motor, so I could swap it for something more cool... Like a Jet turbine or maybe somthing nuclear.

[R.A.D.man]

I went through this 3 years ago and I had a very good shop build the 455 motor. The main items for you without going crazy on high dollar boltons can be received from Mondello's. You can buy a whole oiling system upgrade from them, it inculdes a jet boat pan(10qt, it is a Moroso and better ones are out there), pickup for that pan, oil restrictors (installed by machine shop), and oil restricted push rods, I used a high volume store bought oil pump but the machine shop "blue printed" it before installation. We also installed "Block Straps" I believe these only go on the 2,3 and 4 journals, but there may be 4 of them with one more being installed on #1 or #5 mains, I cannot remember, The bottom end girdle sold by mondello's IMO is not necessary and its expensive. The much less expensive straps they sell beef up the bottom end fine. I would recommend all the above, not too great an expense to build a good base. From there, lots of additional machining was done, stock crank was professionally turned, polished, balanced and I believe it was cross drilled and chamfered, but I could be wrong here, this was not done at the "city garage," we sent it out. The block was decked, and align honed, I bellieve the cam journals received attention too, but again I am not sure. New cam was checked for straightness, it is an Engle from Mondello's and it was straight. The stock rods were shot peened, straightened and balanced. It was suprising how out of straight some were, my machinist had to make the tool to straighten these, he only had set ups for Ford or Chevy, it was a favor. The pistons are speed pro with the teflon skirt, these were balanced too. This built a great strong base. This motor turns a new Agressor A at 5400 RPM. When this motor was reinstalled, it turns out I had a C cut Stainless berkeley, the rpm's reached were at and slightly above 6500 (yes in an Olds.). I ran it for a good while this way and made some really long passes. 1 season later I tore it down to check the rod bearings and they showed some slight wear but not bad at all considering. These were replaced when the new A cut Agressor was installed, still going strong and no worries flat out. Hope this helps.

[77 Apollo]

After thinking about this over the weekend, I am going to stick with the olds. R.A.D. Man. Great advice that I will pass along to my mechanic. I appreciate everyones insight.

[R.A.D.man]

After thinking about this over the weekend, I am going to stick with the olds. R.A.D. Man. Great advice that I will pass along to my mechanic. I appreciate everyones insight.
I'd be happy to add specifics to any questions on my build.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

As R.A.D. has shown, the 455 is capable of yeoman service as a jet motor, but it takes extra care, $$$, and prep to do it. Sure looks like you had it done well RAD kudos my man. :cool: Just the thought of 6500 on a Olds gave me a tremmor, now I need a drink to settle it. :D