Panther Pumps (HELP) more R.P.M from my moter

[Quickkarl]

I have a 1977 Tahiti 18 ft with a new 454 stroked to 496 ci , Everything new the block has been bored .060 over, Scat crank Scat rods, J E Pistons,and int balanced also, I used a comp 575 lift cam with comps stainless roller Rockers ,and i toped them off with a set of Jomar Stud girdles. I put a set of Edelbrock Alum Marine heads 61559 p/n Im using 2 750 Eld Carbs on a Offy tunnel ramand my spark is all MSD 6al box dist 8.5 wires soft tuch rev limiter I now have 10 hours on this moter i ran the rev limiter up to 7000 rps AND LOW N BEHOLD IT WONT REV PAST 6100 AINT THAT SOME S T HELP ANY INPUT WOULD BE GREAT
THANK YOU
QUICK KARL

[BrendellaJet]

sounds like evey other jet boat! :rollside:

[Quickkarl]

iM LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO TELL ME SOMETHING I DONT KNOW LOLOLOLOLOLOLO :idea:

[victorfb]

set the rev limiter to 9000 and it will fly. :hammerhea

[Squirtin Thunder]

I have a 1977 Tahiti 18 ft with a new 454 stroked to 496 ci , Everything new the block has been bored .060 over, Scat crank Scat rods, J E Pistons,and int balanced also, I used a comp 575 lift cam with comps stainless roller Rockers ,and i toped them off with a set of Jomar Stud girdles. I put a set of Edelbrock Alum Marine heads 61559 p/n Im using 2 750 Eld Carbs on a Offy tunnel ramand my spark is all MSD 6al box dist 8.5 wires soft tuch rev limiter I now have 10 hours on this moter i ran the rev limiter up to 7000 rps AND LOW N BEHOLD IT WONT REV PAST 6100 AINT THAT SOME S T HELP ANY INPUT WOULD BE GREAT
THANK YOU
QUICK KARL
To be perfectly honest you really don't want it to rev past 6100, you just don't know it yet !!!
You may want to talk to CS19 he may be able to shead some light on the subject. But as a Berk dealer I can say you are starting to fall off the efficancy band wagon. How fast is this Boat really ??? Do you want it to last all Summmer ??? 5500 would be a better max rpm, Call Jack@MPD. He does some real nice work on impellers. Steelcomp ran something like 93mph at 5500rpms at Ming, with one of Jacks MPD "B" impellers.

[AZKC]

I think he's got a Panther pump. And spinning one of those 6100 is something. Is the pump fresh also??

[malcolm]

According to my calulations, that puts you at around 625 hp, what are you worried about?!? What's the GPS say? You must be really moving for a Panther.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I know the 454 is a hell for strong (and solid as a steel ingot) motor, and there are some really good aftermarket parts out there, but IMHO, putting the loud pedal on the fibreglass and screaming 6,100 RPM very many times, very often, for very long, is just asking, no BEGGING for it to eventually go off like a grenade, a very EXPENSIVE grenade. 454 parts (and even worse, 496" parts) are HEAVY (relatively speaking).
What do you want to spin, 7,000??? How many passes you want to make at THAT?
I gotta agree with Thunder, tune the pump to load her down to 5,500 RPM and you can go darn fast for YEARS instead of weeks.

[malcolm]

Kinda hard to "tune" a Panther. :boxed:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Well, Yea, that is true Malcolm. A distinct SHORTAGE of parts out there to mod it. I forget that part sometimes. hahaha Kinda like my Berk "F". :rollside:

[FILUCKY]

That panther pump won't handle that much power for long! Plan on changing it out soon, my first boat had a panther and i kept bending imput shafts! So i took it out and did some glass work and installed a AT-sd309 and was very happy. Panther is a great for stock engine or lightly worked over, but definitly not ment for that much HP.

[Cas]

Filucky is kind of right. The shaft can handle the power right up to the point you hit a little wave and unload it. When it loads back up, you have a real good chance of twisting and/or breaking the shaft.
Has anything been done to the pump or the intake on the bottom of the boat?

[Squirtin Thunder]

How fast is this Boat really ???

[Quickkarl]

I have a 1977 Tahiti 18 ft with a new 454 stroked to 496 ci , Everything new the block has been bored .060 over, Scat crank Scat rods, J E Pistons,and int balanced also, I used a comp 575 lift cam with comps stainless roller Rockers ,and i toped them off with a set of Jomar Stud girdles. I put a set of Edelbrock Alum Marine heads 61559 p/n Im using 2 750 Eld Carbs on a Offy tunnel ramand my spark is all MSD 6al box dist 8.5 wires soft tuch rev limiter I now have 10 hours on this moter i ran the rev limiter up to 7000 rps AND LOW N BEHOLD IT WONT REV PAST 6100 AINT THAT SOME S T HELP ANY INPUT WOULD BE GREAT
THANK YOU
QUICK KARL
I sent the pump to Panther Marine ( Steve the owner of Panther Pumps in Org) compleatly rebilt and installed there bronze sleve, for proformance and a jetavator also, at around 3500.00 so im still all ears guys, you cant change impellers in panthers like you can in Burkley pumps

[Squirtin Thunder]

How fast is this Boat really ???
Have you GPSed the boat ???
There is quite a few people that swear by the Panther pumps.
I remember going to the Cow Palace boat shows and checking out the Panther Booth. The pumps are clean looking from the outside, black cover. The Panther Models were Hot, I spent a lot of time there watching the............Vidios.

[malcolm]

You must be new to jet boats Karl. Let me rephrase this for you....
You don't have the power to spin it any faster!
:D

[Jet City]

Karl, what your ultimately going to figure out ($ooner than later I hope) is that neither your current hull or your pump are capable of performing to the level of the engine you've built. I think you'll be money ahead to look into a better suited hull, a gullwing with a JC/JG pump if it were me. Think about it like putting that engine in a '75 Monte Carlo for drag racing, your hull is 800+ pounds with a "hooked" bottom, the gullwing will be 600ish and far more efficient.
I'd also track down Jer's jetboat calculator, it will really help paint a picture of how much HP and more importantly at what RPM these pumps run at, I think you'll be surprised how much HP 7000 RPM's takes.

[Quickkarl]

Ok to
Code Blue
G.P.S last year on old motor 64.5
G.P.S last weekend on new motor 67.9
and by the way im a good friend of Dough Eagle and Bob Hoffman of Hoffman Eagle Marine here in Calif
Malcom,
I dont want to spin the motor any higher , I want the boat to go faster
Jet City Rebel
Thank you for your help I think your right , I just thought that after installing a new hp motor i would do better than 3 mph faster than stock motor thats all.
im going down to Lauftland in Aug 19 to 24 are any of you going there????

[Squirtin Thunder]

I am not sure what panther has to offer you by the way of impellers, but you need a bigger one. Also I would think about sending that impeller that you have to MPD and have Jack detail it. One of my customers is getting out of a mildly modified 460 in an open bow v bottom 18 ft with an E pump, 71.1 mph @ 5000 rpm with an MPD impeller.
I'll help anybody, I don't care who you know.
Jim

[SmokinLowriderSS]

You're fighting a tough battle Karl. I'm only running my lightly modded 454 4700 RPM, on my only lightly modified Berk "F", Berk A impeller (only about 350 HP) GPS'd last weekend of June at 58+. I was running real rich dealing with an altered carb setup that I have since decided against and with a hull bottom that "rough" does not describe. Winter project #3 is a flip-over and hull rework. In Lowrider's prime, she was running 333 HP 454 with 150 HP Nitrous (still there) on radar for dad at 72. I might get some newer GPS-ings the weekend of the 22nd as we are towing her to Texoma and the carbing will be dead-on.
If you are dead set on the hull going faster, better flip it over and start by seeing what kind of shape the bottom is in. Any hook will push the bow down weting the glass and slowing you down. Honestly I'm a bit surprised you aren't making more speed either with all that power but it all depends on how much drag you have at the same time.
Rebel is right in what he says. The way to speed is a lot of power in a LIGHT, SMOOTH hull, not trying to put a blower motor in the family station wagon.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Maybe on a bit more helpful note, the Laid Back Boaters Assn on EZ-Boards (yes, us folks on EZ-Boards though beat up by a f-stick hacker, are still alive & kicking) has a pretty extensive panther comunity. Also seek help in their area. No detrement to these folks here but I believe in casting as wide a net as possible for info and then trying to glean the wheat from the chaff.\
http://p210.ezboard.com/bclassic***boats

[Quickkarl]

I thank you guys for all the input. Im not giving up just yet, I will let you guys know as i do 1 change at a time . Thanks again

[Cas]

Karl,
Click on the Laid Back Forum link in my signature as I have a Panther Pump Forum over there that you can read through. Lots of good info from quite a few people.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Hiya cas, nice to see you over here. I rarely make it to LBBA forum these days.

[malcolm]

Ok Karl, you threw me off with all the talk about your rev limiter. If you've talked with the boys at Panther, did they talk about narrowing the intake to reduce drag? Seems I've heard the faster Panther guys out there talking about this. If you check out Cas's Panther forum I'm sure you'll meet up with at least a couple guys trying to get all they can out of their black pumps.

[flat broke]

Okay,
Read enough BS, time to set some stuff straight. Most of this is gonna sound like I'm beating up on my favorite punching bag, but if he'd quit jumpin in front of the bus, he'd stop gettin run over. :rolleyes:
ST, Berks and Panthers are two completely different pumps, different principles, different designs, different HP absorbtion properties. MPD isn't a Panther shop and Jack will tell you that straight up, just like he did for me many years ago when I got started in this whole deal. Jack is hands down the best there is in the business IMHO when it comes to mixed flow pumps, but Panthers are all together different. If you'd pull one apart, or look farther than the plastic cover, you'd know that. With that in mind, citing references of other boats with disimilar power, hull characteristics, and speeds does little to help Karl out.
Karl,
The man that Jack refered me to way back when I had a Panther is Andy Dominguez. His phone number is (310) 549-3203. If he is still in the biz, he would be who I would talk to. He was very helpful when I called with questions etc. but I wasn't running the kind of power you are. If you are dead set on keepin the Panther, a beefier shaft can be made up for you. I'd be willing to bet that with some work on the bottom of your boat, the intake of the pump, and the clearances etc. on the impeller, you could improve your situation. But as many others on this board have suggested you might be money/time ahead moving your mill into a hull/pump more suited towards the goals you are chasing. Now for the best bit of advice anyone can give you. Step back for a minute and think about what you want this boat to do, and how much you want to spend to do it, then set your goals firm, and avoid the "if I could go just a little bit faster" syndrome. That mentality will nickel and dime you to death.
The advice about checking your hull for hook is excellent as is hitting up the references to Panther info that Cas has provided. There aren't a lot of folks that have as keen of an interest in those pumps as Steve, so take advantage of the info he has dug up over the years. Good luck with the project and give Andy a call. If he's still in the biz, he'll be your best shot at things related to the pump itself.
Chris

[Squirtin Thunder]

Okay,
Read enough BS, time to set some stuff straight. Most of this is gonna sound like I'm beating up on my favorite punching bag, but if he'd quit jumpin in front of the bus, he'd stop gettin run over. :rolleyes:
ST, Berks and Panthers are two completely different pumps, different principles, different designs, different HP absorbtion properties. MPD isn't a Panther shop and Jack will tell you that straight up, just like he did for me many years ago when I got started in this whole deal. Jack is hands down the best there is in the business IMHO when it comes to mixed flow pumps, but Panthers are all together different. If you'd pull one apart, or look farther than the plastic cover, you'd know that. With that in mind, citing references of other boats with disimilar power, hull characteristics, and speeds does little to help Karl out.
Karl,
The man that Jack refered me to way back when I had a Panther is Andy Dominguez. His phone number is (310) 549-3203. If he is still in the biz, he would be who I would talk to. He was very helpful when I called with questions etc. but I wasn't running the kind of power you are. If you are dead set on keepin the Panther, a beefier shaft can be made up for you. I'd be willing to bet that with some work on the bottom of your boat, the intake of the pump, and the clearances etc. on the impeller, you could improve your situation. But as many others on this board have suggested you might be money/time ahead moving your mill into a hull/pump more suited towards the goals you are chasing. Now for the best bit of advice anyone can give you. Step back for a minute and think about what you want this boat to do, and how much you want to spend to do it, then set your goals firm, and avoid the "if I could go just a little bit faster" syndrome. That mentality will nickel and dime you to death.
The advice about checking your hull for hook is excellent as is hitting up the references to Panther info that Cas has provided. There aren't a lot of folks that have as keen of an interest in those pumps as Steve, so take advantage of the info he has dug up over the years. Good luck with the project and give Andy a call. If he's still in the biz, he'll be your best shot at things related to the pump itself.
Chris
Now why would I do that ??? Under the cover they are ugly !!!
I have to leave the lights out for that one.