Oil cooler flow question

[Wet Dream]

I installed an oil cooler (big merc type) on my 455 with a stock oil pump. From the filter housing there is a spin on adapter, 1/2" lines to the cooler, then to the remote filter and back to the spin on. Somewhere around 12 to 15' of hose total. I hit a major rainstorm one afternoon and made it back to the dock asap. I pulled the dipstick and noticed that the pan was milkshaked. It probably only took in about 1/4 cup of water (volume difference on the dipstick). But when I did the oil change, the oil in the filter looked normal. Is there some way to put an inline flow meter on the cooler, or should this be considered normal? The engine was run for about 15 seconds after I noticed the pan. Shouldn't the contaminated oil have reached the filter at this time or not? I guess my biggest question is: How do I know if my cooler is getting the maximum flow and not getting bypassed?
[ July 31, 2003, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Wet Dream ]

[Moneypitt]

Are you associating the milky oil with the rain storm? and how can you gage 1/4 cup on a dip stick? If you are trying to verify the flow through your remote systems, warm the motor up, either on the trailer or in the water and feel the hoses for heat. You will be able to tell if the return hose is still cold, but unless your bypass valve is set real low, you should be circulating through the system. I would be more concerned with the milk, although the temperature differences between the inside of the motor, and the inside of the cooling system using lake or river water, (cold water, not like a radiator that re-circulates hot/warm water) causes condinsation to form. I've learned to live with a little milk, usually in the filler cap, or breathers, and even in the dipstick tube. Remember, water is heavier than oil and will go to the bottom of the pan if left sitting long enough, but will also leave its rusty evidence behind. I don't see the rain as a factor here....Moneypitt

[Wet Dream]

It was definately the rain. This has happened before like this and it wasn't merely rain, it was more like a monsoon. My scoop doesn't turn around, it's always facing forward and catching whatever is in its path. I'm guessing a 1/4 cup since the level of oil didn't substancially raise. It takes only a couple of tablespoons of water to milk a motor. The "milk" as you describe in the filler or the cap is just condensation. You should see what the oil in the pan looked like. This was no condensation.
The thought of blown gaskets concerned me, but I did an oil change again, took it to the river and let the oil get nice and warm, cooking off any remaining water. It did just that, burn it off with plenty of evidence in the filler. A wipe down of that and that was the end of that.

[LeE ss13]

If it is possible to reverse the hoses, they might be crossed. If they are, then no oil would go through the oil filter, (oil only flows one way through a standard automotive filter). If the adapter is a good one, then it will have a bypass valve built into it so oil can still lubricate the engine. It is designed that way, incase the filter is clogged. (or the oil is too cold and thick to go through the filter quickly). Just a thought.
[ August 01, 2003, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: LeE ss13 ]

[Moneypitt]

If you got enough water in the scoop to actually polute the oil, the motor would either die, or hydro lock. There is not a direct conection from the scoop to the oil pan. If you turned the motor off, and poured a quart of water down the carb, most of it would remain above the rings in the cylinders with open intake valves. If you left it for an hour, pulled the plugs and turned the motor slowly to expel the water, I really doubt you would have enough water in the pan to milk the motor. So, no matter how hard it rains in the motor, if you don't die, and/or hydro lock the motor, your water in the oil is comming from somewhere else.....Just my .02....Moneypitt

[Wet Dream]

Moneypitt, your $.02 is beginning to lose value. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't there, and don't know the situation or my engine setup. However you don't have to hydro an engine to milk a pan, it doesn't have to enter through the scoop, and the engine doesn't have to be running. With OT's, while towing you will have an exhaust valve open allowing the air that travels over the OT's to act as a vacuum, pulling in water through the breathers. This is not a question about how the water got in there, this is a flow question. I have run the crap out of the boat for the last 2 weekends and its not a water issue, its about the oil cooler.

[Moneypitt]

Let me make sure I have this right. You're saying that the air passing past the OT collector opening will creat a vacuum down the exhaust tube, into the engine thru an open exhaust valve, past the piston rings,(2, plus the oil wiper set) into the crankcase, and up to the breathers and actually suck water into the engine during a very heavy rainstorm, while towing with the engine off. If there were the slightest possibility of that ever happening to an engine, it would have so much blowby it would instantly ignite all the oil and gasoline in the pan, IF it ever started.
That you are asking an oil cooler question was reconized in my first response, feel the hoses when the engine is warm for heat as the motor is running, you should be able to determine if oil is flowing to and from the cooler, and your remote mounted filter. Check to see if the hose from the fitting closest to the center of the screw on adapter, goes to the fitting closest to the center of the remote filter mount.
If you engine carries ample oil pressure, it's a good sign that the bypass valve is not bypassing below that pressure, and unless the cooler is very restrictive, creating a backpressure higher than your oil pressure runs, everything should be circulating... My .01...Moneypitt

[miketsouth]

Hey Bill. There is not much oil flow in a tight engine. I also think you can cool the oil too much. With cool oil there will be less flow. Im wondering if it is a posibility that the water came suddenly and it did not have time to get to the filter. And your right, if you stir up a little detergent oil and water it will milk up and dont take much. I would think less flow with solid lifters.I dont know what you got.
Now, i am thinking there MAY be a way to see the oil flow. It will be very low but you can go to a referigeration store and get a "liquid sight glass" they come with sweat and flare fittings. I have used these to detect air in oil suction lines to burners.
Keep in touch
mike

[Wet Dream]

Water got into that engine somewhow. Money, I apologize for my previous comment, but the damn thing was sealed around the intake/ scoop and took on alot of water in the pan when I towed once last year in the rain and that was given as a reason. It could come from the breather on one side and pcv on the other. Makes sense in a way. This situation may be similar, but I'm just curious.

[Moneypitt]

No need to apologize, the reasoning involved when searching for the cause of water polution in the oil of a boat, is a best, a guessing game. Until someone can pin down the actual cause,(with physical evidence) all the opinions are to be considered, and considered again, and debated, discussed, and the mystery hopefully solved. I fought a BBC jet for 2 seasons, and finally, (after changing gaskets, re checking heads, trying a different intake, pressure regulating the water flow etc.)I took the block back for another mag check for cracks, the motor was outside in the sunlight, the angle just right, a guy at the shop saw a crack, vertical in a cylinder, a little tiny thing, but under cylinder pressure, it was big enough to be a problem.
I know we all chase our tails with problems like this, and you just wanted to verify oil flow to your cooler!!!!
Just a thought here, pull the lines one at a time and use a priming tool to turn the oil pump and catch the oil in a clear container, mark the volume for a given # of seconds, then pull the next hose, and do it again. This will tell you if there is a big restriction, loss of volume, in your plumbing, but it will NOT give you info about your bypass valve...Moneypitt

[AR Wizard]

As for water in the oil pan from a rain storm, look for it getting in to your valve cover braethers. There is no way its going in the air intake and getting to the pan.
As for your oil flow, if its easy to get to your adaptor, plug your bypass with a 3/8 pipe plug, then all the oil goes thur the filter and oil cooler and back to the engine.You just need to put a little heat in your motor before you stand on it !If you don't like it that way take the plug back out.
I run a 572 BBC, blown w/carbs in a picklefork, with a R&D Thermostat oil cooler. The oil goes from the outside of the adapter on the block to the outside of the remote oil filter, from the inside of the filter to the thermostat side of the oil cooler and back to the inside of the adapter on the block.Cold water to the end of the oil cooler that the return oil comes out of.I used to have bearing problems from oil heat, but not any more. Oil temp stays at 190/205 degrees.Also no condensation in the valve covers. argue

[flat broke]

AR Wizard:
As for water in the oil pan from a rain storm, look for it getting in to your valve cover braethers. There is no way its going in the air intake and getting to the pan.
As for your oil flow, if its easy to get to your adaptor, plug your bypass with a 3/8 pipe plug, then all the oil goes thur the filter and oil cooler and back to the engine.You just need to put a little heat in your motor before you stand on it !If you don't like it that way take the plug back out.
I run a 572 BBC, blown w/carbs in a picklefork, with a R&D Thermostat oil cooler. The oil goes from the outside of the adapter on the block to the outside of the remote oil filter, from the inside of the filter to the thermostat side of the oil cooler and back to the inside of the adapter on the block.Cold water to the end of the oil cooler that the return oil comes out of.I used to have bearing problems from oil heat, but not any more. Oil temp stays at 190/205 degrees.Also no condensation in the valve covers. argue The only thing I would add to that is the fact that if you are going to plug the bypass, make sure you are using a filter that has a bypass like a Baldwin. A cheap filter, no bypass, and a strong pump would equal a big mess and the associated damage.
Chris