skate boards and fire hoses

[bottom feeder]

Cyclone posted,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there has been a severe lack of tough guy brainiac internet jet pump theory discussion around here lately so i figured i'd toss this one out to see what everyone thinks:
if the displacement of water from in front of the intake through the jet pump and out the nozzle is what propels a jet boat through the water and not the stream of water exiting the nozzle and pushing against the water behind the boat......Then how come changing the angle of the water exiting the nozzle drastically affects the attitude of the boat as it moves through the water? Example: you point the nozzle up to shoot a big roost and the water isn't hitting anything in the air really(cept the air) and yet the rear of the boat is forced downward and the bow upward. Riddle me that!
__________________
"ninjas killed my family. Need money for Kung Fu lessons."
Well I am no tough guy but have been known to take a jab or two. :D
The displacement of water through the pump is not solely what propels a jet boat. There are many functions that contribute to said propulsion system.
First I will give my 2 bits on thrust,
Whom ever named these pumps "jets" was just wrong they are in fact pumps. The water stream does not need to hit the water to generate thrust. Although this is a impossability due to gravity. The major contributor to the push we feel when we mash the gas is in fact from the water being ejected from the nozzle hitting water. For ever action their is a equal reaction. Or something like that. The push is transfered to the boat via the water stream. Just think of the water stream as semi solid. (dont belive me try to divert it) It is the weight of the water in the water stream that we are being pushed away from.
The water stream hitting air will generate some thrust but with a weight comparison between water and air it becomes quite evident that the area of impact our water stream has on air is much to small to provide enough weight to equal the water stream. The air is simply pushed out of the way.
I have seen all sorts of comparisons between jets and pumps. They are two diferant concepts with some similaritys in looks only. The jet engine compresses the air to increase its desity, Then heats the air to expand it resulting in an increase in its volume. It then ejects heated air through a nozzle (venturi) into cooler denser air. Point being the mass is changed during this process. Unless you have steam or ice for a roost your not changing the mass much.
With that said lets look at the ever popular rooter tail. Say you run with a diverter in full up mode you are shooting a huge roost. Huge roost = a huge amount of water or shall we say mass in the air. It is this mass you are pushing aginst.
When you move your nozzle up / down, left / right you move the mass that you are pushing aginst. If the mass is above your thrust line your thrust line is down. If your mass is below your thrust line it is up. you thrust line is the direction you will be pushed.
All this takes place because the velocity of the water stream decreases as it travels away from the nozzle. This results in a stacking motion, high velocity water being stacked upon lower velocilty water.
Then their are diverters. Not like the ones Place made so popular.
The Place diverter and similar items sold are in fact thrust vectoring devices. They work the same concept as stearing just in a diferant axis. This is the reason for the added piviot pin. There are numorus factors that can increase or decrease the effectiveness of these items. The most noted would be leverage.
Now a diverter would be something like a reverse bucket. Or if you can imagine a small plate that the water stream would actualy contact in operation. If a device like this were installed so that the bottom of the water stream contact the plate with the plate mounted to the transom you would see bow rise. and the opposite to be true if mounted on the top of the water steam. The reason you do not see this being done is the force this item would remove it along with it being a touchy adjustment.
Thanks for reading next will be skate board testing with a garden hose.

[Danhercules]

Thanks for reading next will be skate board testing with a garden hose.
I still say use Vics chair and a fire hose. More fun. But, of course we put Cyclone in it.!!

[Jetmugg]

You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
There is no "water stacking", there is no benefit to having the nozzle stream hit anything (water, air, a bridge, a brick wall, etc.).
Water is incompressible.
You cannot use the nozzle stream like a long "pole" to push against anything.
Once the water leaves the nozzle, its work is done. It doesn't matter if the water falls off a cliff, hits a brick wall, or goes into the vacuum of space.
Let Jer post some free-body diagrams, and believe them.
We have been through this before. If you don't believe Jer's explanations, then get yourself a couple of engineering degrees, and try again.
My 2 cents.
SteveM - only has 1 engineering degree.

[bottom feeder]

You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
This you may be right on but why not debate?
There is no "water stacking", there is no benefit to having the nozzle stream hit anything (water, air, a bridge, a brick wall, etc.).
This sir i belive is ware you are wrong :yuk:
Water is incompressible.
And did I state that it was? Your are right but it can be placed under pressure right?
You cannot use the nozzle stream like a long "pole" to push against anything.
Are you sure? If so then why is it if you take a garden hose turn it on and start pushing it into the ground it makes a hole? the "nozzle" is not doing the digging. :cry:
Once the water leaves the nozzle, its work is done. It doesn't matter if the water falls off a cliff, hits a brick wall, or goes into the vacuum of space.
O yes it does.
Let Jer post some free-body diagrams, and believe them.
We have been through this before. If you don't believe Jer's explanations, then get yourself a couple of engineering degrees, and try again.
My 2 cents.
Let Jer post for himself. I Hope he knows I have the utmost respect for him and others. Who said anything about a degree? Or does a degree make one more weighty than another?
SteveM - only has 1 engineering degree.
I prase him for going to school. How does this effect you?
Best regards to you my freind

[BUSBY]

Okay ... after carefull consideration and trying to figure out how I was going to explain to my wife why exactly I was strapping two skateboards to my feet while holding onto a firehose and trying to "test" if "watter stacking" or if the "mass of water" was pushing against itself ... I figured out that I could test this out in a smaller test unit ... Brian Jr.!
So we gave him some safety gloves, head protection, safety glasses, padding for his ass (in case it worked :messedup: ) and strapped HIS feet to two skateboards! I then proceeded to have my 13 year old daughter hook up the smallest nozzel to our garden hose (this one will strip the paint off of my house at full pressure) and told her to "LET HER RIP!"
Brian Jr. and my wife weren't so sure about it ... but I was having a blast!
So, ladies and gentlemen, I am sad to say ... my attempt to test this out in a smaller case study failed. Brian Jr. didn't move an inch. So, I guess it's back to me and the firehose.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/thumbs/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_002.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_003.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_004.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_005.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_006.jpg

[bottom feeder]

Busby,
I think we can make this test work on the smaller scale. Take the same nozzle and water pressure turn the nozzle down and have Brian Jr try to shut it off by pressing it on the sidewalk. Bet you a beer it is tough to do. You can not produce much thrust with a garden hose :D point is when the nozzle is close to the side walk the only thing holding it up still is a short small stream of water.

[cyclone]

Maybe if he was holding 10 garden hoses it would work? great post Brainiak!

[Jetmugg]

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I am, however, trying to prevent misinformation from spreading and trying to clear up misconceptions.
I also understand how "jet boat" propulsion works, and the forces at work.
I understand physics and Newton's second law, and how to apply them to real world situations.
I don't think it's good for anyone to represent their incorrect assumtions and opinions as an explanation of how jet boats are propelled. (Many of the original poster's statements are simply incorrect.)
Jer does a great job of taking his time and providing "engineering" answers to questions which warrant "engineering" responses. I am also an engineer, but don't seem to have the patience and ability that Jer does to take his time and carefully formulate very thorough answers (including charts and graphs) to questions.
ONCE AND FOR ALL - the water stream exiting the back of the boat does not provide thrust by "pushing against" anything other than the boat.
Until everyone agrees to this scientific fact, we cannot proceed any further.
SteveM

[Jetmugg]

That is classic.
He just needs a bigger hose, or maybe a fire extinguisher.
SteveM.

[NELSON#109]

come on busby, we all know that shoes, socks, and summer dont mix..... that is why your expierement failed. you said jr was grounded from his shoes n socks till after summer. you dont want him to look gay like you: Do you? Beat it. ill call you later today.

[BUSBY]

We tried pushing it into the sidewalk, didn't work ... thought about multiple hoses ... didn't have long enough ones ... currently, my brother is on his way over with a ski rope to try to pull him behind the truck ... more to come later!

[bottom feeder]

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I am, however, trying to prevent misinformation from spreading and trying to clear up misconceptions.
I also understand how "jet boat" propulsion works, and the forces at work.
I understand physics and Newton's second law, and how to apply them to real world situations.
I don't think it's good for anyone to represent their incorrect assumtions and opinions as an explanation of how jet boats are propelled. (Many of the original poster's statements are simply incorrect.)
Jer does a great job of taking his time and providing "engineering" answers to questions which warrant "engineering" responses. I am also an engineer, but don't seem to have the patience and ability that Jer does to take his time and carefully formulate very thorough answers (including charts and graphs) to questions.
ONCE AND FOR ALL - the water stream exiting the back of the boat does not provide thrust by "pushing against" anything other than the boat.
Until everyone agrees to this scientific fact, we cannot proceed any further.
SteveM
I agree Jer does A great job with his posts. If you could please educate me as to how I am incorect it would be of great service. How does thrust work? Guess I am just stupid for not getting it already.

[Jetmugg]

The ski rope should work. Or perhaps a cylinder of compressed gas taped to his back.
Steve.

[cyclone]

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I am, however, trying to prevent misinformation from spreading and trying to clear up misconceptions.
I also understand how "jet boat" propulsion works, and the forces at work.
I understand physics and Newton's second law, and how to apply them to real world situations.
I don't think it's good for anyone to represent their incorrect assumtions and opinions as an explanation of how jet boats are propelled. (Many of the original poster's statements are simply incorrect.)
Jer does a great job of taking his time and providing "engineering" answers to questions which warrant "engineering" responses. I am also an engineer, but don't seem to have the patience and ability that Jer does to take his time and carefully formulate very thorough answers (including charts and graphs) to questions.
ONCE AND FOR ALL - the water stream exiting the back of the boat does not provide thrust by "pushing against" anything other than the boat.
Until everyone agrees to this scientific fact, we cannot proceed any further.
SteveM
If you are referring to me as the original poster.... I never said that it was the stream of water pushing against anything that made the boat move. I said "not the stream of water exiting the nozzle and pushing against the water behind the boat......" just to clarify that i'm not trying to push incorrect info on anyone.

[BUSBY]

You're right Nelson ... I did ground him ... but Gina said I couldn't tape his bare feet ...
He has gotten rid of his sock tan already, and I'm working on getting rid of my farmer tan!
What the hell are you doing home anyways ... shouldn't you be chasing girls or something?
Glad to hear you made it back alive!
Now, back to testing!
:D

[BUSBY]

The ski rope should work. Or perhaps a cylinder of compressed gas taped to his back.
Steve.
I have a full CO2 bottle :idea:

[Oldsquirt]

I have a full CO2 bottle :idea:
Kid better run and hide NOW! :D

[Jetmugg]

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
The application of this law is where the challenge of visualization lies.
If your rooster tail hits a jet-skier, there is an action/reaction at the location where the water hits the jet-skier. This has no effect on the speed of your boat. No "extra boost" is applied to your boat by knocking the jackass off of his Sea-doo.
If you go under a low bridge with your rooster tail up to the point where the rooster hits the bridge, your boat does not accellerate due to the action of the water hitting the bridge or the resultant force applied to the bridge.
The action of high-velocity water leaving the nozzle of your jet pump results in a reactive force being applied to the boat, pushing it forward. The direction of the high velocity stream of water determines the direction of the reactive force, and how the boat behaves (turning left or right, trimming up or down).
A fireman holding a hose has no greater force applied to him whether the stream of water goes over a cliff or hits a brick wall.
The garden hose water stream blows a hole in the mud because the water applies a force to the mud (action/reaction), not because it applies any force to the holder of the hose.
If you could carry your jet boat and a big tank of water into outer space, and supplied a steady supply of water to the intake of the jet drive, and you could run your engine in outer space, your jet boat would haul some very serious ass, even though there is nothing for the exit stream of water to "push against".
I hope this helps. Some free-body and/or force-vector diagrams would be very helpful, but I'm not qualified to post them.
SteveM.

[Oldsquirt]

Well put, Steve. From what little I remember of my Physics, Statics and Dynamics classes 30 years ago, I do know that the force-vector diagrams are also quite useful to understanding how trimming the nozzle changes ride attitude and speed.

[MikeF]

:D
I coulda gotten over there in time to be part of the experiment. Kinda sad you didn't wait. :notam: :mix:

[cyclone]

Well put, Steve. From what little I remember of my Physics, Statics and Dynamics classes 30 years ago, I do know that the force-vector diagrams are also quite useful to understanding how trimming the nozzle changes ride attitude and speed.
can you put it into dumbed down english for us? the trim/attitude thing is one aspect that i have a hard time wrapping my head around.

[Danhercules]

[QUOTE=BUSBY]
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_004.jpg
[QUOTE]
HEY!!!!! There are no expantion joints on the water!!!!
Take the wheels out of the expantion joint. Your gonnna need a heck of a push to get him started.

[Oldsquirt]

can you put it into dumbed down english for us? the trim/attitude thing is one aspect that i have a hard time wrapping my head around.
Mike I'll try to work up a couple of basic drawings to show it. It's really not a difficult concept.

[Oldsquirt]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_004.jpg
This is exactly what I expect you guys to try at the next river trip. Just substitute drunken boaters for the kid, a fire hose for the garden hose and delete ALL safety gear. :D

[FOURQ]

You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Let Jer post some free-body diagrams, and believe them.
We have been through this before. If you don't believe Jer's explanations, then get yourself a couple of engineering degrees, and try again.
My 2 cents.
SteveM - only has 1 engineering degree.
wow so if you have an engineering degree everything you think and say is true ??? i say not .. lots of things look great on paper but put it in the feild and its SHIT.. so to you my friend keep living in the clouds.. in my opinion engineers ruin wet dreams by over thinking them ....
Q

[BUSBY]

:D
I coulda gotten over there in time to be part of the experiment. Kinda sad you didn't wait. :notam: :mix:
Sorry Mike ... it was a spur of the moment thing ... I was cracking up the whole time. I'm suprised that the pictures came out.
The funny part is that a gardner truck w/ 4 guys in it and another mini van full of kids stopped to watch ... they too were cracking up!
The sad note is right when my brother was leaving his house in Foothill Ranch (about 10 minutes from mine) my Mom called him from out of state (Oklahoma). It appears that after I e-mailed them to him, he forwarded them to my sister ... then sis sent them to Mom. Mom wasn't too happy to call my brother to find him cracking up looking for the ski rope ... shortly there after, my phone rang.
Needless to say, being 36 and getting your ass chewed out by your Mom from another state for being, and I'll quote, "the most idiotic father she has ever heard of" ... makes me think I must be doing something right. She was never that much fun! :D
P.S. ... the pictures of the ski rope adventure have been postponed until further notice ... we have something even bigger in store for Mom! :devil:

[BUSBY]

wow so if you have an engineering degree everything you think and say is true ??? i say not .. lots of things look great on paper but put it in the feild and its SHIT.. so to you my friend keep living in the clouds.. in my opinion engineers ruin wet dreams by over thinking them ....
Well this is obvious, I have one (an engineering degree)... and on paper, my engine should never blow up ... :confused:

[BUSBY]

:D :D :D Kid better run and hide NOW! :D

[BUSBY]

[QUOTE=BUSBY]HEY!!!!! There are no expantion joints on the water!!!!
I noticed that also when I was relooking at the pics ... don't worry, Brian Jr. has bigger things to think about before this weekend ... just wait!
:D

[Jetmugg]

"wow so if you have an engineering degree everything you think and say is true ??? i say not .. lots of things look great on paper but put it in the feild and its SHIT.. so to you my friend keep living in the clouds.. in my opinion engineers ruin wet dreams by over thinking them ...."
I certainly don't think that an engineering degree makes everything I say the truth. However, it helps me to understand physics a lot better.
Common sense will only get you so far. Common sense didn't build Hoover Dam, split the atom, put a man on the moon, or build a computer. A deep understanding of science, engineering, materials, physics, electronics, etc. made these things possible.
The kid with the garden hose still takes the cake.
SteveM.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Jetmug is entirely correct about how Jet Drives work. He is also correct about Newton's Seccond Law of Physics, which is why he is correct about "water pump drives". The boat travels foreward because a heavy substance (water) is forced away from the pump nozzle, which forces the nozzle foreward with the same energy. The nozzle is attatched to a larger boat which moves as well. If you could measure the volume, mass, and velocity of the water stream leaving the nozzle, then divide by the weight of the boat, you would get the theoretical speed of the boat, minus the reality of drag. Energy is neither created, nor destroyed, only transferred (yet another law of physics). Even the explanation in space is factually accurate, if impossible to prove due to logistics.
BUSBY, that HAD to be some funny scat there. I'd have been rolling! :cool: You are on the right track but the garden hose at 50PSI does not provide enough force to push a medium-sized child, even with low-friction skateboard wheels to assist. 5 or 6 hoses MIGHT have done it. A pressure washer MIGHT accomplish it. The energy transferred by the water is dependent on both mass and velocity. Kinetic energy doubles with the square of the velocity.
Press on folks with the arguments. :rollside:

[BUSBY]

The kid with the garden hose still takes the cake.
SteveM.
My engineering degree hard at work ... or was it the 6 pack of Silver Bullets?

[SB]

[QUOTE=bottom feeder]Cyclone posted,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there has been a severe lack of tough guy brainiac internet jet pump theory discussion around here lately
There still is a lack, since you didn't contribute anything. Perhaps you should attempt to explain something simpler, like a sledgehammer.
Let's hope you're kidding.
That kid on skateboards is great. Someone from social services is coming to investigate you now. If your wife divorces you, plan on having those pictures introduced into evidence.

[BUSBY]

That kid on skateboards is great. Someone from social services is coming to investigate you now. If your wife divorces you, plan on having those pictures introduced into evidence.
Oh those pics are nothing ... wait unti they get to the hard drive ... you should see what the damn Chihuahua has to go through! I'm not worried about the social services people ... it's those crazy PETA people I'm worried about!
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/23582005SummerShowdown_049.jpg

[Duane HTP]

Jetmegg is the one who is correct here. Newton's Law at work. "For every action there is an oppisite and equal reaction." The action here is the impeller pushing backwards on the water. The reaction, is the water pushing forward on the impeller. The impeller then transfers the thrust to the boat hull via pump shaft and thrust bearing. You can put a droop snoot on a boat upside down, shoot the water in the air, and it will still move forward. I have done this just to prove the point. Water stacking has nothing to do with it. As for the steering and the diverter, The action is when you bend the water, it applies force to the side of the nozzle. The reaction is the nozzle sides pushing back, which in turn makes the boat steer or trim.

[BUSBY]

Jetmegg is the one who is correct here. Newton's Law at work. "For every action there is an oppisite and equal reaction." The action here is the impeller pushing backwards on the water. The reaction, is the water pushing forward on the impeller. The impeller then transfers the thrust to the boat hull via pump shaft and thrust bearing. You can put a droop snoot on a boat upside down, shoot the water in the air, and it will still move forward. I have done this just to prove the point. Water stacking has nothing to do with it. As for the steering and the diverter, The action is when you bend the water, it applies force to the side of the nozzle. The reaction is the nozzle sides pushing back, which in turn makes the boat steer or trim.
Well put Duane ...

[bottom feeder]

Well sorry to all for having to be the jackass. but someone has to do it for the betterment of all involved. Nice job jet mug and others. Now how much of a jack ass must I make of myself to prove the next point?? This is not much fun but maybe someone will learn something if we are lucky.
as allways best regards

[Jetmugg]

I had some sneaking suspicions that you had a better grasp of the subject than you were letting on.
Next time, I get to be the jackass.
I won't get offended either.
I still want to see Busby's son being rocket propelled on those skateboards.
SteveM.

[*BN*]

This thread has enough material it for that over engineered fella in Las Vegas to have field day for weeks! :sleeping:

[wsuwrhr]

Okay ... after carefull consideration and trying to figure out how I was going to explain to my wife why exactly I was strapping two skateboards to my feet while holding onto a firehose and trying to "test" if "watter stacking" or if the "mass of water" was pushing against itself ... I figured out that I could test this out in a smaller test unit ... Brian Jr.!
So we gave him some safety gloves, head protection, safety glasses, padding for his ass (in case it worked :messedup: ) and strapped HIS feet to two skateboards! I then proceeded to have my 13 year old daughter hook up the smallest nozzel to our garden hose (this one will strip the paint off of my house at full pressure) and told her to "LET HER RIP!"
Brian Jr. and my wife weren't so sure about it ... but I was having a blast!
So, ladies and gentlemen, I am sad to say ... my attempt to test this out in a smaller case study failed. Brian Jr. didn't move an inch. So, I guess it's back to me and the firehose.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_002.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_003.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_004.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_005.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_006.jpg
This is the best damn post I have seen in awhile.
Now give him a 4 inch fire hose, and a REAL helmet, and see what happens.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

Perhaps you should attempt to explain something simpler, like a sledgehammer.
Let's hope you're kidding.
I AM DYIN OVER HERE........
Didn't Gallager(however you spell his name) wear this theory out enough times?
Brian

[BUSBY]

This is the best damn post I have seen in awhile.
Now give him a 4 inch fire hose, and a REAL helmet, and see what happens.
Brian
Hey I try ... :D
I'm here for everyone's amusement ... and if Brian Jr. has to fill in as our own little Johnny Knoxville ... so be it! :D

[wsuwrhr]

Needless to say, being 36 and getting your ass chewed out by your Mom from another state for being, and I'll quote, "the most idiotic father she has ever heard of" ... makes me think I must be doing something right. She was never that much fun! :D
P.S. ... the pictures of the ski rope adventure have been postponed until further notice ... we have something even bigger in store for Mom! :devil:
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

come on busby, we all know that shoes, socks, and summer dont mix..... that is why your expierement failed. you said jr was grounded from his shoes n socks till after summer. you dont want him to look gay like you: Do you? Beat it. ill call you later today.
Shoes without socks?
Are you kidding sweaty feet guy?
Brian

[steelcomp]

Well this is obvious, I have one (an engineering degree)... and on paper, my engine should never blow up ... :confused:
Yeah, and a bumble bee can't fly. :D

[cyclone]

[QUOTE=SB][QUOTE=bottom feeder]Cyclone posted,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there has been a severe lack of tough guy brainiac internet jet pump theory discussion around here lately
There still is a lack, since you didn't contribute anything. Perhaps you should attempt to explain something simpler, like a sledgehammer.
Let's hope you're kidding.
Oh but i contributed plenty guy. Aren't people discussing these theories and misconceptions now? mission accomplished. have a nice day.

[Cs19]

BUSBY must have had the day off. :cool: or you guys have way too much time on your hands. LOL. Keep going with it, see what it takes to get him slightly moving on the skateboard..Pressure washer? Hold off on the fire hose for a little bit.
Jettmugg, youve made it more than clear that you dont believe in water exiting the nozzle hitting the lake water for propulsion.Its a big 10-4.Lets move on.
Here is one..So once the boat is nearly up to top speed, how much higher does the velocity of the water exiting the nozzle need to be than the velocity of boat itself in order to keep accelerating?

[steelcomp]

"wow so if you have an engineering degree everything you think and say is true ??? i say not .. lots of things look great on paper but put it in the feild and its SHIT.. so to you my friend keep living in the clouds.. in my opinion engineers ruin wet dreams by over thinking them ...."
I certainly don't think that an engineering degree makes everything I say the truth. However, it helps me to understand physics a lot better.
Common sense will only get you so far. Common sense didn't build Hoover Dam, split the atom, put a man on the moon, or build a computer. A deep understanding of science, engineering, materials, physics, electronics, etc. made these things possible.
The kid with the garden hose still takes the cake.
SteveM.
Having an engineering degree is one thing...thinking you have some kind of advantage because of it is rediculous, without common sense. Book knowledge and $.50 will get you a cup of coffey. Having a snooty "I'm better than you and I'll prove it" attitude isn't necessary...there's a myriad of different ways of saying things without degrading another only to try and elevate yourself to some synthetic, pathetic, self righteous level of rediculousness. (Clearly illustrated by my post) I'll wager that there was more common sense in any of your examples (Hoover, the atom, going to the moon, etc.) long before there was any freekin engineering. I deal with engineers every day, and have for 30 yrs, and the biggest common problem with them is they all think they have to engineer a freekin napkin! NO common sense, or mechanical aptitude what so ever! Give one a screwdeiver, he's askin how it starts! But he can design a skyscraper. Change a flat tire?? Give me a break!
Humility, my friend. There's your common sense. (In my never-to be humble opinion :D)

[Cs19]

have a nice day.
In your best BUSBY voice.
have a nice day... If youve ever heard BUSBY say it, you know what i mean.

[cyclone]

yeah but i really mean it.
have a nice day, chris. lol

[cyclone]

jimmy burrows came by todd's house tonight and he says he's itchin to race again....

[Cs19]

That would be cool, burrows' boat is awesome! I still cant believe nobody bought that boat, it was a steal at that price.

[steelcomp]

Jetmegg is the one who is correct here. Newton's Law at work. "For every action there is an oppisite and equal reaction." The action here is the impeller pushing backwards on the water. The reaction, is the water pushing forward on the impeller. The impeller then transfers the thrust to the boat hull via pump shaft and thrust bearing. You can put a droop snoot on a boat upside down, shoot the water in the air, and it will still move forward. I have done this just to prove the point. Water stacking has nothing to do with it. As for the steering and the diverter, The action is when you bend the water, it applies force to the side of the nozzle. The reaction is the nozzle sides pushing back, which in turn makes the boat steer or trim.
Duane, if that was true, then what propells a garden hose with a high peressure nozzle on it? Why does the hose fly around radically when you turn it on with the high pressure nozzle on it, but remove the nozzle, and with the same pressure and volume, the hose will just lay there?
I believe that the pump shaft is there to turn the impeller, and the impeller is there to increase the pressure of the water, and force it through the bowl and nozzle. The bearing is there only to retain the impeller and shaft. I believe the thrust comes from the water exiting the nozzle, regardless of how the pressure is generated, and the energy is transfered through the nozzle, to the suction piece, and to the boat through the attachment of the suction piece to the intake (through the bolts). This is why I believe weak suction pieces break. They are absorbing the thrust and transferring it to the boat, not through the shaft and bearing, but at the very end, where the nozzle is. There's a long lever (moment) arm there, especially with a droop and a diverter on the end. :coffeycup

[Sleek26]

That is classic.
He just needs a bigger hose, or maybe a fire extinguisher.
SteveM.
He's not the only one that needs a bigger hose.

[Squirtin Thunder]

There's a long lever (moment) arm there, especially with a droop and a diverter on the end. :coffeycup
But your boat doesn't have a diverter !!!
How does it move ???

[Squirtin Thunder]

If that was true, then what propells a garden hose with a high peressure nozzle on it? Why does the hose fly around radically when you turn it on with the high pressure nozzle on it, but remove the nozzle, and with the same pressure and volume, the hose will just lay there?
:coffeycup
A high pressure nozzle is just that, a high pressure nozzle. It has a small opening which increases the actual water pressure. So when you take the nozzle off the hose it does not fly around because it does not have the same pressure as it did with the high pressure nozzle.

[Jetmugg]

Hey guys:
I wasn't and am not currently trying to be an arrogant ass, or think I'm better than anybody else. Hell, I've got an 18' Gullwing that only runs 71 mph.
That being said, what I was sharing are scientific FACTS, not just my opinion of how things work. A molecule of water located 50 feet behind the boat (in a rooster tail) cannot exert any force on the boat. Does everyone understand this FACT? If not, this same discussion is doomed to be repeated.
Steelcomp - it's too bad that you don't like the engineers that you work with. I'm not one of those "all book larnin'" type engineers. I turn all my own wrenches, can cut, weld, pour liquid steel (in a foundry), and would be willing to strap my own kid to skateboards with a garden hose. I didn't suggest that an engineering degree makes me (or anyone else) better than another person. Only that it helps to understand physics.
Sorry if I offended anyone. This probably won't be the last time this topic comes up, either.
SteveM.

[Duane HTP]

Duane, if that was true, then what propells a garden hose with a high peressure nozzle on it?
Velocity of the mass moving forward verses mass of the hose being moved backwards.
Here's something else for you to think about Steelcomp. Yes, the hose will not move if the opening is too big. Make it a little smaller on the outlet and the hose will move. Why, because of the velocity of a certain amount of mass in relation to the mass being moved. (the hose receiving the oppisite reaction). Now, Keep making that nozzle size smaller and smaller. Guess what happens, All of a sudden the hose will no longer move again. With your theroy, Why not?
I'm not getting on your case at all. Just trying to help clearify some issues.
Now, this difference in nozzle size can change to where the hose moves at an optiman rate of speed. Walla! Why do we change nozzle sizes in our pumps to reach their top performance?

[steelcomp]

Velocity of the mass moving forward verses mass of the hose being moved backwards.
Here's something else for you to think about Steelcomp. Yes, the hose will not move if the opening is too big. Make it a little smaller on the outlet and the hose will move. Why, because of the velocity of a certain amount of mass in relation to the mass being moved. (the hose receiving the oppisite reaction). Now, Keep making that nozzle size smaller and smaller. Guess what happens, All of a sudden the hose will no longer move again. With your theroy, Why not?
I'm not getting on your case at all. Just trying to help clearify some issues.
Now, this difference in nozzle size can change to where the hose moves at an optiman rate of speed. Walla! Why do we change nozzle sizes in our pumps to reach their top performance?
Duane, I know you're not getting on my case...I picked on you 'cause you don't do that. :D I was playing feeder's game, and you played along nicely. It was just that no one had come forward with a clear explaination of what the dynamic was here.
Of course what I said was wrong...what I said would mean that the entire thrust was trasnsmitted through the outside edges of the nozzle. A little rediculous. But, still, no one has really put it in simple terms yet. I was trying to get you or anyone else to explain what the exiting water is pushing against to move the boat. I guess ultimately it's the impeller, since that's the source of the pressure, but even more simply that that???
The reason the hose will eventually quit moving is due to the reduced mass exiting the nozzle.

[Jetmugg]

Sorry I cant figure out how to post subscripts here.
In the lack of other forces (i.e. water drag) M1V1 = M2V2.
Mass x Velocity (subscript 1) = Mass x Velocity (subscript 2)
Finding the sweet spot involves tweakig the balance between mass and velocity for the water hose, or jet drive. We can treat this as subscript 1. This is the applied force.
Subscript 2 then is the boat. If we reduce the mass of the boat, it will travel at a higher velocity. If we increase the mass of the boat, it will travel at a slower velocity. Note that this ignores the effect of drag on the boat (water and air resistance).
I hope that Jer posts here, and can hook us up with some free-body diagrams to show the location and direction of all the forces at work here.
Now if I could just get my Gullwing to run in outer space, I think I could pick up quite a few mph.
SteveM.

[steelcomp]

Hey guys:
I wasn't and am not currently trying to be an arrogant ass, or think I'm better than anybody else. Hell, I've got an 18' Gullwing that only runs 71 mph.
That being said, what I was sharing are scientific FACTS, not just my opinion of how things work. A molecule of water located 50 feet behind the boat (in a rooster tail) cannot exert any force on the boat. Does everyone understand this FACT? If not, this same discussion is doomed to be repeated.
Steelcomp - it's too bad that you don't like the engineers that you work with. I'm not one of those "all book larnin'" type engineers. I turn all my own wrenches, can cut, weld, pour liquid steel (in a foundry), and would be willing to strap my own kid to skateboards with a garden hose. I didn't suggest that an engineering degree makes me (or anyone else) better than another person. Only that it helps to understand physics.
Sorry if I offended anyone. This probably won't be the last time this topic comes up, either.
SteveM.
Steve, I have a lot of respect for a lot of engineers...they're just usually the exception, not the rule. The thing is, you wouldn't know anyone of them was an engineer by talking to them. Of course, they've got stuff sitting on the moon, and laying at the bottom of the ocean listening to conversations on passing submarines. Simple stuff...you know.
Thanks for your scientific input...I can appreciate that part. :D

[steelcomp]

But your boat doesn't have a diverter !!!
How does it move ???
I don't know, Jim. Why don't you explain it for me?

[pops1]

I still say use Vics chair and a fire hose. More fun. But, of course we put Cyclone in it.!!Add a bungee cord in a confined 4 wall area and you have something.

[BUSBY]

In your best BUSBY voice.
have a nice day... If youve ever heard BUSBY say it, you know what i mean.
Ray Capaldi has had many wishes for a "nice day" from me :D

[Danhercules]

Where is Chet when you need him? Talk about a good thread!!!!!

[Jetmugg]

Busby:
I'd really like to request another experiment. I'd do it with my own son, but he's only 3 years old, and can't pick up a bowling ball.
If Brian put his apparatus back on, and held a bowling ball in his hands, then threw the bowling ball as hard as he could (wouldn't have to be very hard), my money is on the likelihood of him being propelled in the opposite direction of the bowling ball's travel.
If the bowling ball is heavy enough, and he can throw it hard enough, it might be a viable means of propulsion.
It would be cool.
SteveM.

[Oldsquirt]

Steve, that's a good experiment for Busby's kid. But if he is going to do that, I think we need to have you strap your son to a skateboard for the water hose experiment. After all, we need a subject with far less mass than Busby Jr. for that particular excercise. Best not let the wife know. :)

[Jetmugg]

I'll see what I can do, and will post pics as applicable.
I have a pressure washer. That should get the job done.
SteveM.

[BUSBY]

Okay ... update ... packing tape will not hold up the 30 lb. CO2 tank on Brian Jr. ... off to get duct tape!
:D

[Taylorman]

Okay ... update ... packing tape will not hold up the 30 lb. CO2 tank on Brian Jr. ... off to get duct tape!
:D
Do you have a job? :D :D

[Hemicbx]

I can’t believe I’m even going to chime in on this thread for fear of more engineering ridicule, but here goes:
The Force developed by a producing “jet” of water is only dependent on 3 things:
1. the density of the fluid,
2. the volume of fluid being discharged,
3. the velocity at which that fluid is being discharged.
F=rQV where r is 1.94 slug/ft^3 (assuming we’re in water, not space), Q is flow rate in ft^3/s and V is average stream velocity in ft/s
Nothing in that equation addresses pushing against anything, or drawing on anything, or which way the “jet” is pointing.
So, the boats won’t move an inch until the pump pushes enough water fast enough to overcome the drag of the lake water holding the boat in place. In the case of our favorite skate-boarded, water-hosed professional tester, the force developed out of the hose was not enough to overcome the friction in the skateboard bearings plus the friction of the wheels on the sidewalk. There was, without a doubt, some force on the hose.
The impeller, as we all know is a pump. The pumps job is to increase the pressure of the water from the suction side to the discharge (bowl) side of the impeller. The higher the pressure in the bowl, the more the water wants out and the higher the velocity of the water stream (assuming a constant nozzle diameter). The higher the velocity, the more force generated, more force=faster. There is always the drag force of the lake on the hull trying to slow you down. If you can reduce the drag (lighter, trim control, wax), the boat will run faster with the same thrust force.
Well, that's all I have for now.
Hemicbx

[BUSBY]

Do you have a job? :D :D
Oh Kevin ... you know how it is ... when the Boss is at home, he's allowed to play!
I'm letting everyone at the office have a break from me! :D

[BUSBY]

Okay all, after numerous threats from the wife about needing to run to the hospital if Brian Jr. was hurt, this was the only thing she would remotely allow me to do.
30 lb. CO2 bottle, packing tape, head protection, safety gloves ... and my skateboard.
Outcome, 6" of movement! (until the back wheels hit the expansion joint in the concrete ... at that point my wife put her foot down and said no more :yuk: )
Here you go:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_001.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_003.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_005.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_006.jpg

[Her454]

Busby, you are my hero! You have joined the list of my favorite all time threads...ROTFLMAO..............this is hysterical! Thanks for making my day, my entire week in fact! :D :D

[Oldsquirt]

Brian, you should apply for a job as an advisor to the TV show, "Mythbusters".

[BUSBY]

:idea:
Nah ... I don't think they would let me use Brian Jr. as the test dummy.
I'm thinking I recruit the Mike's (Cyclone & MikeF), Chris, Nelson, Randy, and whoever else is local to come over and assist with more "subject testing" after a few beers ... then the pictures might become really good!
This is just me with a couple of skateboards and some packing tape ... think if I cut the guys loose in my garage of what they could find!
Now there is an idea :idea:

[BUSBY]

Busby, you are my hero! You have joined the list of my favorite all time threads...ROTFLMAO..............this is hysterical! Thanks for making my day, my entire week in fact! :D :D
Coming from you, I take that as a compliment. But really, Brian Jr. is the trooper ... without him, this all could not be possible ... I want to first thank my Mother and Father ...
Thank you, thank you, thank you ... (as I'm taking a step away from the computer to take a bow)

[Oldsquirt]

Busby, you are my hero! You have joined the list of my favorite all time threads...ROTFLMAO..............this is hysterical! Thanks for making my day, my entire week in fact! :D :D
Hey T, when I saw this pic I couldn't help but think, "only on Mullett Mountain", but then I saw the sidewalk and, well, we all know they haven't figure out what those are yet up there. :D
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_005.jpg

[Her454]

Coming from you, I take that as a compliment.
Thank you, thank you, thank you ... (as I'm taking a step away from the computer to take a bow)
LOL, thank you. Your family are troopers thats for sure! Still laughing over here.............................. :)
Hey T, when I saw this pic I couldn't help but think, "only on Mullett Mountain", but then I saw the sidewalk and, well, we all know they haven't figure out what those are yet up there. :D
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_005.jpg
LMAO, thats scary cuz I thought the same thing! :) This is great.... I think you should market the "contraption" on EBay for the hell of it! :):)

[BUSBY]

I'm still laughing ... :D
My neighbors think I'm nuts ... but as I've always said, people think I'm a little looney!

[Her454]

The THONGS he's wearing crack me up! All that "safety gear" and then.....thongs! ROTFLMAO! :D

[Oldsquirt]

The THONGS he's wearing crack me up! All that "safety gear" and then.....thongs! ROTFLMAO! :D
Well, it certainly would make it easier for the Emergency Response Team to assess the degree of damage to his toes if there were an "incident". Busby, there was an EMT on site during this test procedure, I presume? :)

[Her454]

Well, it certainly would make it easier for the Emergency Response Team to assess the degree of damage to his toes if there were an "incident". Busby, there was an EMT on site during this test procedure, I presume? :)
OF COURSE HE DID! Do you think the NJBA Race Director would attempt ANY type of experiment/stunt like this without the proper Emergency Response Personnel present? ;) I believe they are known as M.O.M.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

OMG. What a thread! :) BUSBY, you definitely outdid yourself this time. Now I'm waiting for test #3. :2purples:

[BUSBY]

OF COURSE HE DID! Do you think the NJBA Race Director would attempt ANY type of experiment/stunt like this without the proper Emergency Response Personnel present? ;) I believe they are known as M.O.M.
Correct, the M.O.M. team was close by ... (most commonly known around our house as Matriarchs Of Mending, my wife Gina is Medical Director while our daughter, Keona, is still in her residency) ... :notam:
And Oldsquirt is correct, according to our household rulebook, The Busby book of Madness, page 14, paragraph 4 ... it clearly states: "If a child under the age of 12 should attempt to sit on a skateboard, while taped to a 30 lb. tank of CO2, said child shall ONLY wear thongs (otherwise known as Flip Flops or Jap Flaps). Wearing of thongs will be limited to, but not excluded from, a style known as "not gay" as determined by our Gayness Technical expert, Nelson109"
So, yes, today's experience was well within the guidelines of the Book of Madness, semi-approval of the M.O.M. team, and technically okay by Nelson109.
:wink:

[Her454]

. Wearing of thongs will be limited to, but not excluded from, a style known as "not gay" as determined by our Gayness Technical expert, Nelson109"
:wink:
OMG, ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS CLASSIC, the "not gay" thing is soooooooooo true......and must be "clarified".!!!!! LMAO...... I need a beer, my stomach hurts from laughing so damn hard.
Classic stuff Busby, classic. :rollside:

[BUSBY]

Sorry ... I have to take a break ... I'm laughing so hard my side hurts!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Excuse me, I'll be back later...........
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HammerDown]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_006.jpg
Give that kid 4000 feet of fire hose...when he arrives here in Philly I'll buy him an authentic Philly Chees Steak :D

[BUSBY]

Okay ... so Brian Jr. being the neighborhood social coordinator that he is has now recruited other kids in wanting to do "subjet testing", there were probably 10 of them asking for me to rig them up and test with them. Team M.O.M. quickly protested.
I told these kids that if there were going to be anyone else used as "test subjets" that their Fathers, not Mothers, must first come with offerings to persuade me to allow them to join such a great club. AND, that their Fathers must provide all equipment and ideas for testing whatever they could come up with. Furthermore, I told the kids that offerings that would be accepted would be: Beer, BBQ or money.
To my suprise, I have already had two Fathers call me asking what type of beer and when we could make this happen.
So, to all of you who might have started a new trend in my driveway, I thank you ... Chris, Randy & the Mike's ... I will let you know before the festivities begin. :D

[cyclone]

say the word and i'll be there with my swimmies on. :D

[Her454]

Okay ... so Brian Jr. being the neighborhood social coordinator that he is has now recruited other kids in wanting to do "subjet testing", there were probably 10 of them asking for me to rig them up and test with them. Team M.O.M. quickly protested.
I told these kids that if there were going to be anyone else used as "test subjets" that their Fathers, not Mothers, must first come with offerings to persuade me to allow them to join such a great club. AND, that their Fathers must provide all equipment and ideas for testing whatever they could come up with. Furthermore, I told the kids that offerings that would be accepted would be: Beer, BBQ or money.
To my suprise, I have already had two Fathers call me asking what type of beer and when we could make this happen.
So, to all of you who might have started a new trend in my driveway, I thank you ... Chris, Randy & the Mike's ... I will let you know before the festivities begin. :D
Irvine's not that far, I'll bring my lawnchair. :wink: :)

[Oldsquirt]

say the word and i'll be there with my swimmies on. :D
Whoa, whoa, whoa....Does Busby have a swimming pool? I'm thinking maybe Busby Jr. plus inner tube plus CO2 bottle might be a better test than that darn skateboard. :idea: :D

[Her454]

Whoa, whoa, whoa....Does Busby have a swimming pool? I'm thinking maybe Busby Jr. plus inner tube plus CO2 bottle might be a better test than that darn skateboard. :idea: :D
Her454 predicting the Emergency Response Team (aka M.O.M.) to be posting soon LMAO...................... :wink:

[BUSBY]

Whoa, whoa, whoa....Does Busby have a swimming pool? I'm thinking maybe Busby Jr. plus inner tube plus CO2 bottle might be a better test than that darn skateboard. :idea: :D
Unfortunately, no pool ... and if Mike shows up in his "swimmies", he might be in violation of the style known of as "not gay" and then we would definately have to call in our Gayness Technical Expert Nelson for such Technical Violation. :eek:
And beleive me, if there were a pool ... oh this would be so much better!
Her454, Team M.O.M. already thinks I spend too much time screwing around, and definately thinks this post if the stupidist idea ever.

[BUSBY]

Whoa, whoa, whoa....Does Busby have a swimming pool? I'm thinking maybe Busby Jr. plus inner tube plus CO2 bottle might be a better test than that darn skateboard. :idea: :D
WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm thinking Slip-n-Slide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think we have one in the storage!
I'll be back!

[Her454]

Her454, Team M.O.M. already thinks I spend too much time screwing around, and definately thinks this post if the stupidist idea ever.
Stupid, maybe. Funny as hell, yes. Laughter makes the world go round. :)

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Test #3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wooo Hoooooo!!!! :eek:

[BUSBY]

Okay ... new idea, Chihuahua taped to the skateboard w/ CO2 tank! :idea:

[bottom feeder]

Well this is great.
More usefull information shared in two days than the last two months. Let me think of a new jack ass post to get you all talking.
Busby family,
Nice job putting it to test. Thank you Brian Jr. for putting it on the line for your farther. Busby mom thank you for the overseeing such dangerous experiments and adding a margin of security. And Busby dad nice to see you have faith in your children and their quick reactions.

[BUSBY]

Well this is great.
More usefull information shared in two days than the last two months. Let me think of a new jack ass post to get you all talking.
Busby family,
Nice job putting it to test. Thank you Brian Jr. for putting it on the line for your farther. Busby mom thank you for the overseeing such dangerous experiments and adding a margin of security. And Busby dad nice to see you have faith in your children and their quick reactions.
YES ... NEW IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE'RE READY!

[FuelInMyVeins82]

Dude Brian you know you live in irivne where the damn cops will harass you for working on your car in the drive way lol. Wonder what theyd do if they saw a kid cruisn down the street tied to a Co2 bottle on a skate board.... Problobly try and pull his ass over. Those are some funny ass pictures though. :D

[cyclone]

im guessin the cops wouldnt know a c02 bottle from a coke bottle.

[NELSON#109]

ok, time for a fresh SPIN. this is something i did as a kid (last week).... as some of you know i am quit the avid tuber, so this is it. take two or three large semi iner tubes. duct tape them thogather side by side. insert kid in side in a semi standing position. place co2 bottle in front of kid, but still inside the tubes ( which are now upright and ready to roll). nozle has to protrude tubes in a manner as to add rotation thrust. aim kid towards a far off object to ensure u have a saftey net. open valve. note.... flip flops are required to ensure all things gay do not interfer with all things cool. AND YES I WILL PROVIDE BEER, BBQ, TUBES, AND HOOKERS (IF DESIRED). "BEAT IT"...... NELSON#109

[BUSBY]

ok, time for a fresh SPIN. this is something i did as a kid (last week).... as some of you know i am quit the avid tuber, so this is it. take two or three large semi iner tubes. duct tape them thogather side by side. insert kid in side in a semi standing position. place co2 bottle in front of kid, but still inside the tubes ( which are now upright and ready to roll). nozle has to protrude tubes in a manner as to add rotation thrust. aim kid towards a far off object to ensure u have a saftey net. open valve. note.... flip flops are required to ensure all things gay do not interfer with all things cool. AND YES I WILL PROVIDE BEER, BBQ, TUBES, AND HOOKERS (IF DESIRED). "BEAT IT"...... NELSON#109
Ahhhh ... I knew our Technical Coordindtor would chime in with something cool, unfortunately, you my friend, have all of the tubes!
Why don't you get your broken foot ass back from the lake next week and come on down and we can show everyone what new chapters we can add to the Busby Book of Madness!
Hold on everyone, this might get good!
And yes Fuel, most of the Senior Irvine Police officers still remember me from when I grew up here, and a lot of the newer ones are getting to know me since I moved back at the beginning of this year. It seems that every time I fire my boat, they show up. Most of the time, they give me a warning ... and then want to see the engine! :cool:

[NELSON#109]

well, it just so happens that i am planning a trip to beutifull irvine this very week. the foot is feeling good, and the hangover should be gone after tomarrow. ill be takin the train down to get a shoe made for #109. im thinking of coming down on the train, but i need to find a ride. ill be coming on thurs or friday. most likely to santa ana, or irvine station. not sure how long i will be staying, but cs is off on friday, and we were pondering they idea of hookin up w/ you and some of the others for some good old fashioned drunkery on friday night. any takers. ill call you later this week. and ooooooo yes, you know im game for some cool expierements (not the gay kind.... i may be walkin a fine line, but aint gonna cross it. beat it, nelson#109

[BUSBY]

well, it just so happens that i am planning a trip to beutifull irvine this very week. the foot is feeling good, and the hangover should be gone after tomarrow. ill be takin the train down to get a shoe made for #109. im thinking of coming down on the train, but i need to find a ride. ill be coming on thurs or friday. most likely to santa ana, or irvine station. not sure how long i will be staying, but cs is off on friday, and we were pondering they idea of hookin up w/ you and some of the others for some good old fashioned drunkery on friday night. any takers. ill call you later this week. and ooooooo yes, you know im game for some cool expierements (not the gay kind.... i may be walkin a fine line, but aint gonna cross it. beat it, nelson#109
Oh it's ON!
My Dad's girlfriend is flying in from Brazil on Thurs., we plan on having a party here at the house Friday night ... he throws down way harder than I do and his girlfriend is 4 years younger than I am so she's game too ... Ron should be coming down ... so anyone else???
Call me and I'll pick you up if need be, I never work anyways ... so it'll give me something to do.
New loader huh? Getting rid of that huge blocker?
Call me ... Later!
Brian

[BUSBY]

sorry ... loader or shoe?

[moneysucker]

I see the problem with the experiment. The volume exiting the bottle is not enough to break the surface tension of the sidewalk pluss the expansion joint. The Radio Flyer and the 50lb bottle is intended to be secured to the waggon and then have the valve sheered off with a sledge hammer by the occupant of said waggon. I have heard of these falling over and having the valve busted off and shooting through walls and that is why they must be strapped when stored. am I going to have to come down there and show you how it is done?

[olbiezer]

id reather see the hookers in those tubes.......at least it would be entertaining.......you go boy! and sence nelson is providing them free of charge the price is always right!!!!

[BUSBY]

Yes, I am in agreement, Nelson should provide the hookers if we are talking about such a dangerous task ... Sledge Hammers & Co2 tanks.
I am making a motion, as of this point, every time there is mention of both sledge hammers and hookers in the same sentence, Nelson is responsible for such costs. Every time I am hooked up with this guy, there seems to be talk of Hookers. I for one, love Hookers, however, they become expensive. So, from this point on, I recommend that Nelson pays for them. :D
Now, with that said, I am picking him up at the train station tomorrow @ 1:26pm, and I would love a couple of Hookers to be present, however, if said Hookers cannot be present, I might be willing to take us to where other Hookers will be, and Nelson could make up for not bringing any of said Hookers by paying for the secondary Hookers ... while I understand that Orange County Hookers might not be as nice as Ventura County Hookers, we might have to settle since he will be here ... I'm sure Chris (CS19) will agree ...
Any input will be appreciated ... (Mike/cyclone?) ...

[BUSBY]

I see the problem with the experiment. The volume exiting the bottle is not enough to break the surface tension of the sidewalk pluss the expansion joint. The Radio Flyer and the 50lb bottle is intended to be secured to the waggon and then have the valve sheered off with a sledge hammer by the occupant of said waggon. I have heard of these falling over and having the valve busted off and shooting through walls and that is why they must be strapped when stored. am I going to have to come down there and show you how it is done?
Cy ... Friday Night, my house, 7pm ... it's on! If you're available & not out at the river, you're more than welcome to come party!
And for anyone else, Irvine is probably 30 minutes from everywhere in So. Cal. ... a lot of other Hot Boat Forum members are planning on coming Friday night ...
PM me for details if you don't know where my house is ...
Brian

[Danhercules]

WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm thinking Slip-n-Slide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think we have one in the storage!
I'll be back!
Let me know if you need to test bigger, we need to test the cruzers too, not just the lil 18' jets.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4763slipnslide-med.jpg
On Mythbusters, they shot a scuba tank, like the movie jaws, and the tank took off like a rocket! :idea: :idea: :idea:

[MikeC]

Great job Brian Jr!
I thought it was a great example of one of them there Whaacka's.
One seater, big thing hanging off the back, look like they are going fast, and the big give away, full of alot of AIR! :-]
Awsome,,,,
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_006.jpg
Check out that wanna be a real jet boat rooster...... Perfect

[BUSBY]

I thought it was a great example of one of them there Whaacka's.
One seater, big thing hanging off the back, look like they are going fast, and a dead give away, full of alot of AIR! :-]
now Mike ... that's Funny! :D

[BUSBY]

just found the thread ... and started laughing again ... man that was fun.
I need to get little Brian out again this summer and torture ... I mean test things ... yeah, that's it, test things again.
:)

[centerhill condor]

this is how jet guys are different! me thinks we're more actual than theoretical. sometime when your 'net isn't working go get Jr's trig book and look at sine and cosine. It will help you better understand that nagging rooster vs. speed question that plagues many jetters!.
It is a good thing to get the kids started on physics at an early age and you know they'll tell their kids about granpa and why he likes to take his morning nap in the sun!
what a wonderful world this can be! thanks for the pics.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Yep Busby, this was one hell of a thread, and educational too, thx for the bump into reminesence. BTW, how was the night with Nelson and the sledge-hammered hookers? :D :D

[bottom feeder]

HA Great work Busby. Had a lot of fun with this thread. I still could not lure out a couple of lurkers I was fishing for.

[78CoLe]

well if you have to hit water to push your boat your nozzles to deep inn the water ha ha well weve test the nozzle take a 2 1/2 " fire hose and a 2" tip on a smooth bore nozzle thats is as big as you need trust me we do this stuff all day in the summer it gets hot out here the calculation for nozzle reaction on this is 1.57xD2xnp= nozzle reaction 1.57x4x80psi=502.4psi at the tip P.S. it's not hitting the wall in any of these formulas hope this was educational for the simple/slow people this is out of my fire ground hydraulics book

[Danhercules]

WOW....
I was watering the back lawn the other day and was feeling the pressure from my hose. (1 1/2 line to a ball valve to a 3/4 hose at 120 PSI) I though about this thread. I need to get the neighbor kid over with the skateboard. I wanna try this with some real pressure.

[4trax]

I read this post and went out and got the garden hose and shot it down the drive way. I could feel the back pressure (alittle) so I got my pressure washer out and could really feel it. There was no differnce in back pressure if I shot in the air or held down on the concrete. Same back presure either way. So that tells me that it's not the water shooting out hitting the lake water. It's just the water being pumped out that forces the boat forward. Pretty good test for an idiot aay? LOLOL

[BUSBY]

have to repost the pics I guess they went away ...
test 1:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/thumbs/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_002.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_003.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_004.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_005.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses_006.jpg
Test 2:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_001.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_003.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_005.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2358skateboards_and_fire_hoses2_006.jpg

[BUSBY]

to everyone who hasn't read this in it's entirety ... you have to ... I laugh my ass off everytime I think of it ... man good times, I'm glad summer is here again ... time to tell little Brian to get ready for some more fun :D
TEAM M.O.M thinks I should leave it alone ... nah! :devil:

[RCB19]

Nice re-pull Busby. Forgot about that one LOL!

[BUSBY]

Nice re-pull Busby. Forgot about that one LOL!
yup, requests from the new guys!