Ford guru's

[Tresguey]

ok my buddy picked up a 77 charger mini day cruiser. it had a ford 460 in it that came unglued. but just picked up a new block and bottom end for it. he wants to know what cam to put in it. and we were told to use a different oil pump drive shaft in it. not to use the stock one. is this true? he also picked up a used gear drive for it. i have never worked on a ford and he hasn't either. he is mopar and im chevy. is there anything we should know putting in that gear drive or anything in general? we need alot of advice.

[460 WJ]

I'm running this cam right here..
It is a CRANE CAM
Part Number: 354561 Grind Number: H-296-2 (REPLACES CCH-296-2)
Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
1968 Up FORD-MERCURY 8 FAIR IDLE, PERFORMANCE USAGE, GOOD MID-RANGE HP, 3800-4200 CRUISE RPM, AUTO W/3000+ CONVERTER, 10.0 TO 11.5 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED. BASIC RPM 3000-6500
Engine Size Configuration
370-460 C.I. V
Valve Setting: Intake .000 Exhaust .000 HOT
Lift: Intake @Cam 325 @Valve 556 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 329 @Valve 563
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.71
Cam Timing: TAPPET @.0042
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 41.0 BTDC 75.0 ABDC 296 °
Exhaust 83.0 BBDC 37.0 ATDC 300 °
Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number 96881
Loads Closed 122 LBS @ 1.900 or 1 29/32
Open 323 LBS @ 1.360
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 3000
Maximum RPM 6600
Valve Float 7200
Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
Intake 13.0 BTDC 43.0 ABDC 105 236 °
Exhaust 55.0 BBDC 5.0 ATDC 115 240 °

[Tresguey]

anyone know about the oil pump?

[Danhercules]

PM Lakes Only. He is nuts about this Ford stuff. :boxed:
He helped me with my build. My boats runnin great and hard!

[Tresguey]

thanks i wil do that. like i said i realy don't know much about that blue oval stuff thats wht we are asking dont wanna make a stupid mistake.

[Rampager]

Need more info about what you're hoping to acomplish with the boat, what year the motor is what heads etc etc
the usual stuff helps ign/carb etc 460 is a great motor for a jet but keep the whole package in mind (like any motor)
Lots of ford guys around sometimes you just gotta wait till they surface lol
Definatly check out the 385 series engine forum there are ford freaks galore there (obviously)
Good luck
Cheers
http://www.network54.com/Forum/85220

[460 jus getn it]

anyone know about the oil pump?
i have a melling hi volume oil pump. at idle cole i have 90psi at warm idle 50psi. wot warm 80psi. i have a 466ford dove-c heads ported stealth intake and soon to have a 850 dp (thanks to jim). 10.1 comp comp cams 230@.50 .543 lift 110lobe sep.msd ing. im turning 5100rpm and when it wants to it runs like a champ.......there are many ford guys here they will surface.

[RiverRacer]

ok my buddy picked up a 77 charger mini day cruiser. it had a ford 460 in it that came unglued. but just picked up a new block and bottom end for it. he wants to know what cam to put in it. and we were told to use a different oil pump drive shaft in it. not to use the stock one. is this true? he also picked up a used gear drive for it. i have never worked on a ford and he hasn't either. he is mopar and im chevy. is there anything we should know putting in that gear drive or anything in general? we need alot of advice.
My advice is to buy a good CJ type Oil Pump and Billet drive. I sell them, and have since 1976. Others sell them also. Make sure your friend has a Full or Rear Sump Marine Pan with at least 8 qt capacity and large P/U when the engine goes back together. THROW the gear drive away, or sell it. It will only be trouble in the long(or short) run. I'm sure someone will recommend a Cam. Don't make it too big if you plan on running a stock type pump and impeller(short duration, high lift 110-112 centerline). RR

[Tresguey]

well my buddy is dead set on running the gear drive because it sounds cool! its a miladon gear drive. what type of failure rate do they have and why dont you want to use them? also he has a fresh set of D3 heads. are they a good set of heads for ford? he has a a new holley 650 ho is putting on it. and a dual plane edlebrock intake. the pump and impeller is stock berkley jc-a. oh yeah ignition is stock. any help will be great.

[RiverRacer]

well my buddy is dead set on running the gear drive because it sounds cool! its a miladon gear drive. what type of failure rate do they have and why dont you want to use them? also he has a fresh set of D3 heads. are they a good set of heads for ford? he has a a new holley 650 ho is putting on it. and a dual plane edlebrock intake. the pump and impeller is stock berkley jc-a. oh yeah ignition is stock. any help will be great.
Gear and Belt Drives are nice on race engines that aren't necessarily relied on for skiing, tubing and family recreation. It's your bud's choice, but I would'nt use it in his application. For a stock application, D3 Heads will fill the bill. From a performance standpoint, they are probably the worst Heads Ford ever made for this engine. They CAN be improved, but the $$$$ would better be spent on a different type of Head(lot's of Ford Iron Heads will work much better than these), if $$$ are in the budget. A 650 Carb is OK for a stock 460, but as displacement and or output increases, so does the need for air(engines are air pumps, plain and simple). The Dual Plane Intake is OK for your friends use at the point he is at. The Ignition is Ok if Electronic, but I and many others rely on MSD systems. I would NOT switch to a hybird(Pertronix etc) system. Just have your friend save his $$ and switch the Ignition as a whole unit at once. That way, it's taken care of as a unit and works as designed. Hope that helps. Other opinions will be expressed, I'm sure. If you need more help, call me at the # on the website 6 days. RR

[058]

For a stock application, D3 Heads will fill the bill. From a performance standpoint, they are probably the worst Heads Ford ever made for this engine. RR
Not so....The worst head ever made for this engine is the open chamber D2 head, lousy combustion chamber design, engine would damn near ping on 100 oct. race gas. :yuk: Thats why they were replaced with D3 heads.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Not so....The worst head ever made for this engine is the open chamber D2 head, lousy combustion chamber design, engine would damn near ping on 100 oct. race gas. :yuk: Thats why they were replaced with D3 heads.
I am sorry I have to disaggree with that statement.
I ran the Police intersepter D2 head and the pass car D2 head and they are much more durable and you can run them with flattops on 89 oct. I actually ran very well with them 74mph radar confermed. If I had anther set I would run them now !!!

[Danhercules]

Lakes O Lakes, where are you???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[RiverRacer]

Let me clarify. The D2VE and D3VE Heads are the WORST heads ever made by Ford for this engine. Small Valves, terrible chambers, smog 'bumps' all over the place and non adjustable valvetrain. They are worth $100.00 per ton to the Chinese, or will make a very nice boat anchor. The D2OE-AA or D2OE-AB Heads(Police Interceptor), on the other hand, are very desirable. They have a moderate size(2.19") Intake Valve and port and CJ size(1.75") Exhaust valves and ports. They work very well for performance use and are well suited for hp street use, as well as 'RiverRace' type Jet Boats where pump gas use is a consideration. I wouldn't hesitate to put $$$ into a set of PI or CJ/SCJ Heads, or even $$$ into a set of 68 thru 70 DOVE type Heads. I wouldn't run, or put a dime, into a set of D2VE or D3VE Heads unless I had -ZERO- other options. They are one of the main reason's these engines had such a poor reputation for making power for such a long time, and caused lot's of people to switch from Ford to BBC in their Jetboats. RR

[Tresguey]

just an update we are gonna go with a chain. he called milodon and they said he had to drill and tap the block to install the gear drive. and really doesn't want to do that. should he try and step up from a 650 carb to a 750 or better? he was thinking of doing this because one of my distibuters is haveing a blow out sale on 750 - 950 holley's right now.

[roostwear]

I run a .040 over 460 with (slightly ported) D3s and forged dished pistons giving me 8.5:1. A Stealth with a Proform converted 750dp that is supposed to flow around 830cfm. 280h (234*@.050, 565(?) lift) and a double roller chain. I run a Pertronix , and logs with risers. I run all the bad stuff. It manages to get my 18' Advantage open bow with an E pump over 70 mph. How fast do you want to go?

[LakesOnly]

If what you have just acquired is a stock bottom end onto which you will install your D3's, then I think that technically you need nothing more than the typical hexagonal hardened oil pump shaft for your pump. This is one step up from the stock shaft. Undoubtedly, the centerless ground billet one would be great insurance; personally I don't feel it's necessary for a 4800 rpm motor.
As River Racer noted, the Milodon gear drive is a good piece and they have a good record but again it's overkill for the application and more suited for it's benefits in a racing enviornment. Frankly, I think installing one just for the noise is as stupid as the sportbike guys who are blipping their throttle for no reason as they sit at a red light. Your buddy may wish to consider the thong-clad babes' disapproval about all that gear noise as they bomb across the lake together.
The D3VE-A2A heads are lowest on the performance food chain but will suit your stock engine just fine. They can be ported and reworked overall but they require a few extra mods that are not required of the earlier production castings. Properly set up and on the right motor, D3VE's have supported 600 dyno proven horsepower.
In regards to the D2 heads, well, this requires some explanation. The Police Interceptor head mentioned is the D20E-AB casting and is a closed chamber head of which 058 was not referring, as everyone here know's that the PI head is a great head. On the other hand, the D2VE-AA head is a true open chamber design that Ford used for one production year only. This head proved to be so detonation prone that Ford ditched the design after only a year and came out with the D3VE, which very closely resembles the early-style (D0VE-C) heads. In other words, Ford essentially reverted back to a proven design and then simply lowered the combustion chamber into the head an additional .100" so as to lower compression ratio.
D3VE heads were long considered "smogger heads" because they came out in the 1973 model year and were released for just that reason (emmissions control). But their capabilities have since been unlocked; porting approach is a little different from the D0VE heads but flow is comparable when all is said and done. They have only recently been "inducted" to this so-called performance head list.
ST, I don't doubt that you have successfully run D2VE's on your jet boat motor as the engine operating temp (cyl head temp) is usally quite lower than that of a passenger car. But the lack of the quench pad in those heads means a longer flame propagation, and if you try to raise compression and advance timing, you will run into detonation problems way, WAY sooner than you ever would with any of the closed chamber heads, including the D3VE which has essentially the same combustion chamber volume as your D2VEs. D3VE's have even worked better on force fed applications (where open chamber heads have traditionally been the approach). Since the D2VE heads don't offer much of anything in a performance prepped application, they don't even make the list of performance heads for the 385 series. Too bad, because they have what may be the best as-cast exhaust port of any of the mass produced passenger car heads.
LO

[Squirtin Thunder]

Paul can you find a pair of D2 heads so I can show you what I am talking about ??? I like proving points !!!
Paul,
I also ran them on my '75 F100 with a 429. I put many trouble free miles on that engine. BTW - at that time I lived in Sac.

[RiverRacer]

I run a .040 over 460 with (slightly ported) D3s and forged dished pistons giving me 8.5:1. A Stealth with a Proform converted 750dp that is supposed to flow around 830cfm. 280h (234*@.050, 565(?) lift) and a double roller chain. I run a Pertronix , and logs with risers. I run all the bad stuff. It manages to get my 18' Advantage open bow with an E pump over 70 mph. How fast do you want to go?
No, you don't run all the 'bad' stuff. If you did, you'd be running a set of bone stock D2's or D3's, Carter(Edelbrock) AFB 'Performer' Carb on a cast iron D3 Quadrajet Intake with an adapter plate, Mallory YL Distributor with points and loose condenser wire, 6mm radio suppresion wires hooked to Champion Spark Plugs and a big Mr Gasket butterfly 'street scoop' that looks like a top fuel bugcatcher. See, your not even close. That's why your boat is 20 miles an hour quicker than it would be with that crap!!!!!!!!! You guys are funny!

[Squirtin Thunder]

No, you don't run all the 'bad' stuff. If you did, you'd be running a set of bone stock D2's or D3's, Carter(Edelbrock) AFB 'Performer' Carb on a cast iron D3 Quadrajet Intake with an adapter plate, Mallory YL Distributor with points and loose condenser wire, 6mm radio suppresion wires hooked to Champion Spark Plugs and a big Mr Gasket butterfly 'street scoop' that looks like a top fuel bugcatcher. See, your not even close. That's why your boat is 20 miles an hour quicker than it would be with that crap!!!!!!!!! You guys are funny!
So what your trying to say is that all of this stuff (Ford Production) is crap but if you modify them they are OK, Right ???

[Squirtin Thunder]

I have a virgin pair of D0VE-A heads. I would like $300 for them plus shipping, if anyone is interested. These heads are bare and clean. They have been checked for cracks. $300, PM if interested.
Thanks
Jim

[roostwear]

No, you don't run all the 'bad' stuff. If you did, you'd be running a set of bone stock D2's or D3's, Carter(Edelbrock) AFB 'Performer' Carb on a cast iron D3 Quadrajet Intake with an adapter plate, Mallory YL Distributor with points and loose condenser wire, 6mm radio suppresion wires hooked to Champion Spark Plugs and a big Mr Gasket butterfly 'street scoop' that looks like a top fuel bugcatcher. See, your not even close. That's why your boat is 20 miles an hour quicker than it would be with that crap!!!!!!!!! You guys are funny!
That Mr Gasket scoop gives ya 20 horse doesn't it?

[RiverRacer]

That Mr Gasket scoop gives ya 20 horse doesn't it?
Yes. As long as your at sea level with 100% Oxygen piped into it at 28" H20 and not moving. This all takes for granted the fact that your garage door springs are STRONG enough to keep the butterflys open while parked with your foot down. LMAO!!! RR