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Blown 472
07-28-2005, 04:09 PM
Doomsday Approaches
The End of the Housing Bubble
By MIKE WHITNEY
I sold my home three weeks ago anticipating what I believe will be "Economic Armageddon" in the United States. It wasn't an easy thing to do. My wife and I have lived in the same home for 25 years, raised both of our children there, and owned the property outright without any loans or mortgage. The house was paid for in "sweat-equity", that is, by wielding a shovel day-in and day-out in my one-man landscape business. I don't say that for sympathy, but to illustrate that we played by the rules, worked hard, paid our taxes, and took advantage of the American dream of home-ownership.
All that has changed.
I sold my home for one reason; George W. Bush. He and his protégé at the Federal Reserve have submerged the country into a morass of "unsustainable" debt, disrupted the nation's economic equilibrium and thrust us towards fiscal disaster. They've also generated a humongous housing bubble through their irresponsible and self-serving manipulation of interest rates.
The facts are astonishing.
The current housing bubble "is larger than the global stock market bubble in the late 1990s (an increase over five years of 80% of GDP) or America's stock market bubble in the late 1920s (55% of GDP). In other words, it looks like the biggest bubble in history." (The Economist)
The banks have lowered the standards for home loans to such an extent that the traditional loan of 20% down and a fixed interest rate is virtually a thing of the past. Instead, those conservative practices have been replaced with "creative financing" schemes that put the entire housing market at risk.
Consider this: In 2004 "one-fourth of all home-buyers including 42% of first-time buyers"made no down payment". (New York Times)
No down payment?
Sorry, but if a buyer can't come up with at least $5 thousand dollars for a down payment, he shouldn't qualify for a home loan.
Equally troubling is the fact that "nearly one third of all new mortgages this year call for interest-only payments (in California, its almost half)" (NY Times) This tells us that a large number of new buyers can barely make their payments, but are gambling that their property value will go up enough to justify their investment. This is "equity-roulette"; a shell-game that anticipates that salaries will go up while interest rates stay low.
Is that a reasonable judgment?
No, Greenspan has said that he will continue to ratchet up interest rates to head off inflation. This means that an economic slowdown is a near certainty. Remember, "class-warrior" Alan Greenspan lowered the prime rate to a ridiculously low 1% in 2002 to keep the economy humming-along while $300 billion was sluiced into Bush's "preemptive" war in Iraq and while the tax cuts were siphoning the last borrowed farthing out of the public coffers. The Bush tax cuts transferred an average of $400 billion dollars per year into the pockets of America's plutocrats. Now, the country is flat-broke and Greenspan will have to "incrementally" raise rates to stabilize the sagging dollar. This means a sluggish economy for most of us and doomsday for over-extended homeowners.
Greenspan assumed he could carry out his plan without too much unnecessary carnage. Unfortunately, gluttonous mortgage lenders have lowered long-term loans while the prime rate continues to go up. The banks, it seems, are addicted to the "cash cow" of shaky lending and are providing even riskier loans to new applicants. This has upset the Fed-master's strategy for a "soft landing" and Greenspan has begun feverishly issuing warnings about an inevitable "adjustment" when the market bogs down. The bottom line is that the housing bubble is getting bigger by the day and increasing the potential for catastrophe.
The current problem is compounded by the dramatic surge of speculation in the housing market. As "The Economist" says, "A study by the National Association of Realtors (NAR) found that 23% of all American houses bought in 2004 were for investment, not owner-occupation. Another 13% were bought as second homes. Investors are prepared to buy houses they will rent out at a loss; just because they think prices will keep rising"the very definition of a financial bubble."
What will happen to these "speculative" buyers when the market "flattens out" or the economy takes a sudden dip?
And, what will happen to the US economy when the jobs that depend on new home sales vanish overnight?
"Over the past four years, consumer spending and residential construction have together accounted for 90% of the total growth in GDP. And over two-fifths of all private-sector jobs created since 2001 have been in housing-related sectors, such as construction, real estate and mortgage broking." (The Economist)
"Two out of every five" private sector jobs are now entirely dependent on an industry that is built on pure quicksand.
So, why would banks foolishly loan money to people who can't even scrap together a few thousand dollars for a down payment or who can scarcely meet their "interest-only" obligations?
The reason is simple; because they are not the one's taking the risk. Mortgage loans are acquired by investment banks and chopped up into various securities where they are sold in mutual funds, hedge funds and pension funds etc. To some extent, this takes the lenders off the hook, but it also means that the shock to the system will be much more widespread when the day of reckoning finally arrives. If we encounter a major glitch in the economy the shock-waves will be felt throughout the world. "Investors now hold $4.6 trillion in mortgage backed securities. That's more than the outstanding value of the US Treasuries." (NY Times) Think about it.
Shaky lending, interest-only loans, no down payments, a US government that is $8 trillion in debt due to Washington's profligate spending, and a "ticking-time bomb" of adjustable-rate mortgages that will reset within three years; the table is set for a disaster of Biblical proportions. If we hit a bump in the economic road ahead (rising gas prices? recession?) the "Land of the free" will be knee-deep in bankruptcies and foreclosures. We'll all be fighting for a soft-spot under the freeway on-ramp.
The fatuous Greenspan believes that all this can be avoided by regulating the money supply.
He's dead wrong, and I bet my house on it.
Note: The current dilemma could have been avoided if Greenspan had incrementally raised rates as the bubble began to appear. Instead he lowered rates to facilitate Bush's war in Iraq. It was purely a political decision that "postponed" the economic pain of the conflict and allowed the Bush administration to shift the cost of the war onto future generations.
Consider, also, how Greenspan paved the way for the budget-busting tax cuts (which he enthusiastically approved) and how they have increased America's debt by $3 trillion. This is real money that American workers will eventually have to pay back in the form of taxes and a higher cost of living. This "class loyalty" is strikingly at odds with his philosophy as a young man when he said, "Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth."
So it is; and the $3 trillion dollars that evaporated on Greenspan's watch was in fact stolen from the American people while the Fed-chief concealed the crime behind the smokescreen of low-interest rates. In the final analysis, Greenspan will be seen as a greater traitor than Bush.

bigq
07-28-2005, 10:39 PM
Boy he managed to get in all the little Bush bashing points in didn't he.
The lamest part is calling Greenspan a GW protege when he has server under the last four Presidents. Was he Clintons protege when ths tech market crashed? Also the mortgage rates are not even tied to the Fed rate increases or decreases. We could go on and on, but what would be the point.

Jeanyus
07-29-2005, 06:17 AM
Hey Blown, Here are some words of encouragement. Poeple can survive Econemic Armageddon. It's been done before. Open a history book and read about The Depression.
It's the Armegeddon, the the Muslims are offering us that is going to be hard to survive. Remember 9-11.
Try not to take all these economic predictions so seriously, those guy are not
clairvoyant.
The sky is not falling.

OGShocker
07-29-2005, 06:33 AM
You gotta love the fact the blogger never signed his BS rhant.

Blown 472
07-29-2005, 10:28 AM
You gotta love the fact the blogger never signed his BS rhant.
He did, I forgot to put it on there. :(

riverroyal
07-29-2005, 11:24 AM
renting now?

HM
07-29-2005, 02:23 PM
Debt as a percentage of GNP is actually at records lows during war time, and still historically low in general. They present actual dollars as that gets a good knee jerk reaction.
If you look at debt as a percentage of GNP, you will see record highs in the 40% ranges - and I think there is a spike up to 60's - and now compare that to the single digits we are in now.
Is there truth, yes. Is it really a problem? No. Just more liberal propaganda.

riverroyal
07-29-2005, 02:26 PM
to remember the RE crash in the early 90s,how much did it go down?percentages,10%,20%?

cdog
07-29-2005, 02:54 PM
to remember the RE crash in the early 90s,how much did it go down?percentages,10%,20%?
Across the board 20%........Will we see it again.......Yes.........I think we have atleast two more summers of high prices. Get nervious when the next pres. looks like a Dem. They will change our fiscal policy and cause a big burp!

cdog
07-29-2005, 02:58 PM
The biggest bubbles will be in areas where you can mow down some weeds and build homes.

HM
07-29-2005, 03:41 PM
Yes, Real estate has downward adjustments, but then always comes back. I bought a home at the dip/low (just luck on my part) for $120,000 in Corona. It is now worth $450,000. Lets say it adjusts down 20%, to $360,000, still a 300% increase or 67% profit margin from dip to dip. Lets see....have $120,000 turn into $360,000 in 10 years....I'd say that is a tad better than a poke in the eye, oh and outperformed every stock and mutual fund over the same period. Yes, the sky is falling.
The only people whe get "burned" (<-----read sarchasm) are the people who over react and bail or are unable to ride the dip for what ever reason. My brother walked from a property in Huntington Beach in 1990 because he bought for $800K in 1985 and it dipped to $550,00 in 1990. That property is now worth $2.5 million. He freaked and bailed. Real Estate always goes up.
Another example. My dad bought a home in 1977 in San Clemente for $250K. Friends and family freaked out that he paid a QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS for a home (in 1977, that was unbelievable). He still lives in that house and it is worth $4.5 million.
There is never a bad time to buy real estate, just better times than others as long as your willing to ride the dips.

HM
07-29-2005, 03:50 PM
The biggest bubbles will be in areas where you can mow down some weeds and build homes.
You mean like Anaheim? Oh wait, that was plow down orange trees. In 1967, people thought you were f'ng crazy for living way out in Yorba Linda...."Yorba Linda??? That is not even a real city!!! Why do you want to live waaaaayyyyyyy out there????????????"
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

cdog
07-29-2005, 04:02 PM
There is never a bad time to buy real estate, just better times than others as long as your willing to ride the dips.[/QUOTE]
That was the best statement i've heard yet.

cdog
07-29-2005, 04:10 PM
You mean like Anaheim? Oh wait, that was plow down orange trees. In 1967, people thought you were f'ng crazy for living way out in Yorba Linda...."Yorba Linda??? That is not even a real city!!! Why do you want to live waaaaayyyyyyy out there????????????"
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
So..... I don't get your point. Is this one of those statments like when people bring up how orange county is a lame place because of it's BK in the 90's? I'm a little confused????? :confused:
If your refering to Urban Sprawl. Well we all know that's gonna happen due to the prices. Each cycle will push it out further and further. Back in the 80's and 90's it was riverside and Mo town. I just talked my friend out of a 430k home in Menifee/perris with a 300 HOA fee each month. NUTS! People are even getting driven out to Barstow from the high desert.

HM
07-29-2005, 04:30 PM
So..... I don't get your point. Is this one of those statments like when people bring up how orange county is a lame place because of it's BK in the 90's? I'm a little confused????? :confused:
If your refering to Urban Sprawl. Well we all know that's gonna happen due to the prices. Each cycle will push it out further and further. Back in the 80's and 90's it was riverside and Mo town. I just talked my friend out of a 430k home in Menifee/perris with a 300 HOA fee each month. NUTS! People are even getting driven out to Barstow from the high desert.
We agree. I was just trying to be funny, and missed...as usual. ;)

Sportin' Wood
07-29-2005, 04:34 PM
Let it burst,
The so called bad times of the 90's helped me get into the game. I loved hearing my neighbors who tapped there equity on toys, cry that they had to dump the real estate, and move to where ever USA. I have been waiting and will continue to wait for the time to come when I can buy tons of rentals with my good credit, and equity, that I did not tap for a drink of Kool Aid.

riverroyal
07-29-2005, 04:39 PM
on a high risk/intrest only/exotic loan.Example,a house is worth 800k,balance is 600k,theres 200k equity,the owner is only gonna stay for a few years,house is just a investment,tax write offs etc,Why would you pay anything to the balance when it will only drop it by say 10k over two years.In 2 years the house will go up at a minimum of 10%,thats 80k,5% a year,and thats real low,it will do better than that.Also we have only begun to see creative home loans,they arent going away,when the rates go up,banks will find away to loan money to people,they always have....Now if you owe 800k on a 800k house then thats different,although still a good investment

flat broke
07-29-2005, 05:02 PM
From my vantage point, the real fun in some market segments (midline homes in So Cal) will start in 2-3 years. Lots of folks got in with 0 to little money down on short term rates that were better last year than they are this year and probably for a while. Already seeing calls from people that were told, "you'll be able to refi next year and lower your payment". Unfortunately the appreciation tailed a little and since they're still in a less than 20% equity position, they are looking at similar programs to their orriginal loan with higher rates than we saw a year to two years ago in terms of your shorter intermediate arms. If those people could only marginally swing the payment and have been robbing Peter to pay Paul waiting for the lower payment refi to bail them out, they'll be forced to do something with the property in order to avoid defaulting on their mortgage....
Enter the unholy :rolleyes: negam loan. So the only way those folks can see a lower payment is to take advantage of a payment that defers interest onto their principal balance. So long as the property continues to appreciate, they can make the "minimum payment" and have some breathing room in terms of the monthly budget. Since most these loans recast to a P&I payment after 110% equity has been exhausted, and considering there are average loan ballances running in excess of $400k, they're blasting right up to their recast point in less than 5 years. Toss a dip in home values like we saw in the late 80s/early 90s and the market might see a little excess inventory. Defered interest loans aren't in and of themselves a bad thing. They allow the borrower to leverage the equity on their home on a month to month basis as they see fit. If you're flush, make the full P&I payment, if you're tight, make the minimum payment. But they are a liability to the housing market that I'm not sure anyone has a complete grasp on in terms of the implications should things sour in the market.
But enough of the doom and gloom. Since we're talking about the recession of the late 80s/early 90s in regard to the California real estate market, lets look a little deeper than just the statement that stuff dropped by up to 20%. If you live in a home and your mortgage is $2000/month, you are employed, and have no need to access your equity, what does it matter what the market does? If you were on a fixed rate loan (like most people in that era were) you just had to go to work, bring home a check and make your mortgage payment. Unfortunately that point in time also saw the collapse of the defense/aerospace industry in California which mean't people no longer had the $$ to make the payment on their homes. Sooo, they had to sell, and in some cases under market value, so they just walked away. This increased inventory in the area and further fueled the drop in housing prices. Had the aerospace industry stayed strong, I don't think we would have seen a 20% drop.
So will we see a similar dip (20%)? Yes there will be a market correction. Housing prices for entry level homes are to the point where the average "middle class" dual income families would have a tough time qualifying on a full documentation basis. When the prices get to the point that "joe average" can't afford to buy, days on market goes up, prices come down a little and if sustained we see a market correction. Since California has a more diverse employment base than it did in the last recession, the odds of the drop in home values being escalated by widespread layoffs, are diminished and as such, the extent of the market correction should be of less percentage than the late 80s/early 90s market correction.
Just my .02 so I could kill a half hour before calling on my next appointment :D
Chris

riverroyal
07-29-2005, 05:09 PM
thanks for the .02$...For us with boats and toys that are just fun things to have,you can bet we will all sell our "toys" to keep our homes,we can always buy them again someday.

cdog
07-29-2005, 05:36 PM
The market time in OC has doubled in the past 2 months to 1.78 months and inventory has held stady at 1.73 months. The market is still good...

Mrs.Racer277
07-29-2005, 06:47 PM
You mean like Anaheim? Oh wait, that was plow down orange trees. In 1967, people thought you were f'ng crazy for living way out in Yorba Linda...."Yorba Linda??? That is not even a real city!!! Why do you want to live waaaaayyyyyyy out there????????????"
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I do remember Orange trees in Y.L., Placentia, Fullerton and Brea. And houses started at around $30K. Same house can be yours for 1/2 mil. :cry:
But you won't find ANY Orange trees. :cry:

HOSS
07-30-2005, 05:21 AM
The market time in OC has doubled in the past 2 months to 1.78 months and inventory has held stady at 1.73 months. The market is still good...
Down here I believe th emarket is flat,,,I`m waiting for the hole to form and hopefully the bubble will deflate rapidly. I want to own the entire city block my shop is on. I don`t think we have 2-3 years. I`ve been saying its gonna pop for 3 years already. I just don`t see 2-3 more. Maybe 1-2. At least I hope.

Jeanyus
08-01-2005, 06:23 AM
Down here I believe th emarket is flat,,,I`m waiting for the hole to form and hopefully the bubble will deflate rapidly. I want to own the entire city block my shop is on. I don`t think we have 2-3 years. I`ve been saying its gonna pop for 3 years already. I just don`t see 2-3 more. Maybe 1-2. At least I hope.
Don't hold your breath. If you take a look at what is fueling the housing market, and the economy. The answer would be Baby Boomers.
Baby Boomers, earn and spend the most money at the age of 48. The tail end of the generation are 42-44. After this group turns 48 look for the economy to take a down turn (cause the next generation is a bunch of lazy, video game playin bums).
The attack of 9-11, rise in gas prices has had very little negative effect on the housing market, thanks to buying power of Boomers.
I'm 44 and got no plans of slowing down, If another attack happens, I'll just buy more bullets.
Also I have noticed that millions of people are being born, and millions are comeing into this country, but there is a limited supply of land and building materials. I see the price of housing leveling off, but don't really see the bottom falling out, like so many people are hopeing for, but don't get discouraged you could always hope for a big attack (dirty bomb, germ warfare, etc.)
PS hey Blown that guy that wrote the doomsday article is a Moron, if he really sold his house. Never take financial advice from a person who makes his living with a shovel.

riverroyal
08-01-2005, 10:30 AM
this ,my wife works for a huge home builder,in socal alone they have bought enough land to date for 8 more years of steady building,thats without slowing down on building.Im not a economist or anything,but they do have very educated people working for them,so,no worries here!

bellababe
08-04-2005, 10:03 PM
HEY BLOWN 472, Not sure I agree with the housing bubble theory, however I do enjoy the Bush-bashing!!! Right on!!!!! ;)

Blown 472
08-05-2005, 04:23 AM
HEY BLOWN 472, Not sure I agree with the housing bubble theory, however I do enjoy the Bush-bashing!!! Right on!!!!! ;)
I hope you have a fire proof suit as he is the masiah to some around here. :rolleyes:

meaniam
08-05-2005, 10:37 AM
people have said the market was going to crash and i was buying at a bad time. i started escrow sept 12 2001 closed nov 21 2001. every1 told me i was crazy. ever since i have heard the fears of this bubble breaking.the past 2 yrs my equity has shot through the roof. i have watched intrest rates drop. and raise. i never refinanced im still at 6% fixed for 30 now only 26 yrs. i would have refinanced last june for 4.25 on a 15 yr. but when i told agent to lock . she bocked becuase 1 error in credit report. that we already had letter stating it was an error. interest rates went up and i never did anything else. on a 30 yr i cant see a financial gain, in refinancing a 30 yr fixed unless at 5%. so my rate will stay the same iand i never plan on pulling money out. 1 bedroom apartments rent for more then my house payment. i should be just fine. i plan on turning this into a rental in the future. i want to buy land and build custom home in etiwanda above summit anyways

HM
08-05-2005, 02:48 PM
Nothing wrong with Bush bashing as long as it is not derived in pure hatred and conspiracy theories.
I know you think that most of us are a bunch of Bush lovers, but we are very unhappy with lack of backbone our party has. F'ing rep President and rep majority in the Senate and they act like a bunch of pussies. The Dems are much better at playing the hand wringing game, knee jerk reaction, and party line spin than the republicans, because the Dems think people are stupid and it doesn't matter that they lie to the people because they know better. Half the time, I want to jump into the Libertarian group, but then I would just throw my vote down the toilet. Really, the republican party of today is more like the democrat party of the 50's/60's. There is always a bigger government after they are done.
:notam:

bellababe
08-05-2005, 06:34 PM
I hope you have a fire proof suit as he is the masiah to some around here. :rolleyes:
I know, it's crazy. But I guess everyone has a right to their opinion and beliefs no matter how much I disagree! Anyway, I have had some fun on these boards with these Bush-lovers. I just have to ignore that fact and party-on!!! :)

Jeanyus
08-05-2005, 06:47 PM
If people want to bash Bush, then go right ahead. It would help your cerdability if you used facts, instead of BS and conspiracy theories.
If someone wants to sell the house and put the money under the mattress, then do it, it will be the dumbest move you ever made.
Its funny how if a person thinks about issues, makes a decision and votes his own opinion. That people like Blown 472, will call them a goose stepping sheep, because your views are different.

SmokinLowriderSS
08-05-2005, 07:02 PM
I'll be among the first to stand behind someone being entitled to their opinion, even if it disagrees with mine. What I will NOT do is give it credit if it is derived from blindness to facts, ignoring reality, or based on loony conspiracy theories.
Bumblebees actually fly BECAUSE of aerodynamics, not despite as the old saying goes. It is not impossible for a Bumblebee to fly, or it wouldn't.
Were there more than Oswald in JFK's assasination, Yea, likely so (dude on grassy knoll). Was it the CIA, no, organized crime (mafia) most likely. Will we ever know, no (just like Jimmy Hoffa's whereabouts).
I have my displeasures with the current administration too, especially in regards to mexican walkovers (ILLEGALS). Ought to line up the Natl Guard of about 4 states along there and would wholesale stop the BS in just about 15 min. Vincente Fox pissed about it, good! Unfortuantely, gotta have more deaths here in this country before they let us loose on that border. :burningm:

Creator
08-07-2005, 09:45 PM
Bash Bush don't bash him it's all good with me I totally support the right of free speech and by all means voice your opinion that's what makes our country great. I don't agree with all he says or does but as far as the republican party goes he is what we had to offer at the time. No matter how you look at he was 10x better than the alternative in the last election. Just my .02. :idea:

Mrs.Racer277
08-08-2005, 04:35 PM
I know, it's crazy. But I guess everyone has a right to their opinion and beliefs no matter how much I disagree! Anyway, I have had some fun on these boards with these Bush-lovers. I just have to ignore that fact and party-on!!! :)
Hey I found you!!! :wink: :wink: :wink:
We did party didn't we! :wink: :) :)
Ok, now get out of here girlfriend. :wink: