Single Plain Manifold???

[Jason]

I have a 1976 19 ft Hallett Bubbledeck. Its got a 454 with merlin cast heads, Offenhouser tunnel ram with a single 850 holley dp. Just went through the top end last season and the jet is set with a b+ impeller and a place diverter. the boat can run up to 5400 rpm, and clocked on gps at 73 w/ out the nos. My problem is with start up. Its a pain in the a$$ to start and i dont want to change to dual carbs. I was wondering about switching over to a Team G or Victor manifold. Any comments on these two manifolds or is there something else out there that will out perform these two. Thanks Jason

[DUCKY]

A starting issue will not be cured by changing the intake. Although a tunnel-ram is probably not the best choice for your application. You would probably gain some power with a good dual plane. Both of your mentioned intakes make their best power from 4000-8000 rpm, when coupled with the proper cam and other components.
What kind of starting issue are you having?
Maybe we can help. Is your fuel draining out of the carb when it's sitting still, making it tough to start?
[ January 22, 2003, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: DUCKY ]

[Jason]

No fuel is not the problem. After it is warmed up its turn key. It just takes a while for it to kick over in the morning-cold start. It has always been this way, even with the old motor in it. Thought about running dual carbs, but id rather go with the single plain. And one intake is 2000-8000 and the other is 3500-8000 or something like that. My boat doesnt really get onto plain until 2600-2800 so i didnt really see a problem with running either intake.
thanks again
jason

[Brendella]

THE REASON IT IS HARD TO START IS BECAUSE YOU NEED TO RUN QUIT A BIT OF FUEL THOUGH THE TUNNEL RAM JUST GET IT TO WHERE IT IS REACHING THE VALVE THAT IS GOING TO FIRE NEXT. USUALLY THAT IS A CASE WHERE IT WILL START IN A COUPLE OF TURN OVERS OF THE MOTOR. i JUST BOUGHT A SVO INTAKE FOR THE SAME REASON. BUT i WANT TO SEE CAMPARRISONS ALSO ON THE DIFFERENCE ALSO
BRENDELLA

[Jason]

Exactly. My parents and my friends all like to laugh at me in the morning. Seems i always go down the ramp first so i can at least be started when they get in the water.
Jason

[Wet Dream]

It sounds like you have the same boat as I do. I have a 1976 Hallett Bubble. Mine has a 455 in it. Do you have any pics to post? If you don't know how to post, email them to me and I will post them up for you. Here is a pic of mine.
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/Mvc-171s2.JPG

[Wet Dream]

AS a matter of fact, this is Dreamsicle's and mine. His is a '78 Hallett with a new paint job.
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/Mvc-381f.JPG

[JustMVG]

WetDream i see that you are posting from Pennsylvania, where abouts... Mike VG

[Wet Dream]

MandMVG:
WetDream i see that you are posting from Pennsylvania, where abouts... Mike VG I'm northeast of Pittsburgh about 80 miles in a town called Brookville.

[kojac]

Hey Wet Dream,
That picture of you and dreamsickle looks like it was taken at the sandbar at lake anna?
Kojac :cool: :cool:

[steve@kps]

Jason,
I run single plain intakes on my dragster. currently using the team g. I'm going to put either a Dart or the new Edlebrock super victor on the new tall deck. I've heard ALOT of good stuff about the edlebrock making horsepower! and alot cheaper than the dart. I run alcohol injection, so i can't tell you much about your starting problems. But, Reher-Morrison says the Dart makes 25 more horsepower than the team g. and the Brodix is right there with it. The Super Victor is supposed to make more than the Dart?
just my .02
p.s. do you want to sell the Tunnell ram? Or trade for a Dart standard deck dominator flange intake?
steve g.
I just talked to my engine builder. He runs an alcohol injected 598 in his dragster. With a tunnel ram. He uses a nitrous solenoid, that pulls from the fuel tank to prime the engine before starting. Counts to 6 and fires it off. He said, you may be having the same problem. If your on gas, you may only need to count to 4 or 5, but it's worth a try!
good luck
[ January 23, 2003, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: steve@kps ]

[Schiada76]

How about a fancy married manifold? :D

[HammerDown]

Keith...I spoke to the couple from Va. Doug and Shery... (big SleekCraft) he said the water level was as high as they ever seen it. This was just after all that heavy rain a few weeks ago. Hope that helps.

[DUCKY]

The intake has nothing to do with it, unless you are using a choke, and not pumping the gas a few times. What's happening, is the fuel is draining out of the carb when the boat sits for a while. This is pretty normal with a tunnel-ram. You are having to crank it for a long time to fill the carb with fuel, via the mechanical pump. I have cured this on several boats by putting a primer bulb, like those used on outboards, in line before the carb. You should be able to squeeze it a few times, pump the the gas 2-3 times, and the boat should fire right up.

[Jason]

Wet Dream- Boat is basically the same except with through transom exhaust.
Steve- thanks for the advice. Will be looking into the Victor, but still not counting out the Team G.
Dreamsicle- Thats exactly what happens except you get better flow w/ fuel since the flow will be more evenly spread since you have dual carbs.
Ducky- After it sits over winter, thats what happens, really hard to start (no fuel in the bowls). Even if i run it say on a saturday, sunday morning fire is a pain. Its after it gets warmed up that it is turn key. Everyone tells me to change the manifold, just trying to see what the best intake will be.
thanks for the info.
jason

[Jason]

Wet Dream- Boat is basically the same except with through transom exhaust.
Steve- thanks for the advice. Will be looking into the Victor, but still not counting out the Team G.
Dreamsicle- Thats exactly what happens except you get better flow w/ fuel since the flow will be more evenly spread since you have dual carbs.
Ducky- After it sits over winter, thats what happens, really hard to start (no fuel in the bowls). Even if i run it say on a saturday, sunday morning fire is a pain. Its after it gets warmed up that it is turn key. Everyone tells me to change the manifold, just trying to see what the best intake will be.
thanks for the info.
jason

[steve@kps]

Jason, if your interested in a Team G. I'd like to possibly work out a trade w/ you on the tunnel ram. My team g. has the 4150 flange, but, is currently tapped for injection(can instal plugs). It's in excellent shape, currently in dragster.
Let me know if your interested, e-mail is keyprop@hotmail.com
thanks

[DUCKY]

Jason:
Ducky- After it sits over winter, thats what happens, really hard to start (no fuel in the bowls). Even if i run it say on a saturday, sunday morning fire is a pain. Its after it gets warmed up that it is turn key. Everyone tells me to change the manifold, just trying to see what the best intake will be.
thanks for the info.
jason Unless you just want to change the manifold, try the primer bulb first. It only takes a few hours for the fuel to run out of the carb(s), especially if the check valves on the "out" side of the pump are not fully sealing. I run a Team-G with a 950 Holley, and mine will do the same thing over about 3 days. Perfect air/fuel ratio is 14.7:1 and it takes about 10:1 to get a cold engine running. Changing the intake may help due to the fuel distribution idea, but it will not fully cure the problem. And you could make life much easier with a $5 primer bulb and 2 hose clamps.

[Wet Dream]

Kojac, yeah, we took a ride up there. If the water is as high as they say it is, I wonder if we'll be able to find it.

[Snowboat]

Interesting. The fuel should stay in the bowls when the boat sits for a month. If the boat sits for a month, and it has Holleys, and it has empty bowls use the electric pump to fill the bowls. Preferably, rebuild the carnb. If its a mechanical, and it has sit too long and you want it to start right up, choke or not, pull the sight plugs and use a small funnel and hose to fill them up before you start it. After you have dinked with enough jets on a mechanical fuel pump, you'll find this is a lot less embarrasing. The engine will fire right up. If you don't have a choke, turn the engine over until you have pressure on the guage. The bystanders will think your boat won't start. When she pops off to 5K, or more, while you warm it up, you'll keep the bottom end healthy. I start my tunnel ram similar to a blown engine, pump it a few times, you can never lay low when you start a flat, jet, over transom, beast. So get it ready so its sounds bad right off the bat.

[kojac]

steve@kps:
Jason,
I run single plain intakes on my dragster. currently using the team g. I'm going to put either a Dart or the new Edlebrock super victor on the new tall deck. I've heard ALOT of good stuff about the edlebrock making horsepower! and alot cheaper than the dart. I run alcohol injection, so i can't tell you much about your starting problems. But, Reher-Morrison says the Dart makes 25 more horsepower than the team g. and the Brodix is right there with it. The Super Victor is supposed to make more than the Dart?
just my .02
p.s. do you want to sell the Tunnell ram? Or trade for a Dart standard deck dominator flange intake?
steve g.
I just talked to my engine builder. He runs an alcohol injected 598 in his dragster. With a tunnel ram. He uses a nitrous solenoid, that pulls from the fuel tank to prime the engine before starting. Counts to 6 and fires it off. He said, you may be having the same problem. If your on gas, you may only need to count to 4 or 5, but it's worth a try!
good luck I was at the machine shop when they were dynoing a 572 chevy 8.5 to one for the Miami Vice boat and the motor pulled 780 ft# of torque and 840 hp with a portmatched team G manifold. Since I had my dominator manifold there for installation on my 572 we pulled it off and tried it for grins and the dominator pulled 781 ft# torque and 842hp. without matching it to my friends heads. Didn't check at time to see if the match was off but I thought the test was interesting. Kojac.

[kojac]

Wet Dream:
Kojac, yeah, we took a ride up there. If the water is as high as they say it is, I wonder if we'll be able to find it. Wet Dream, We'll put a flag up so everyone will know the location and not hit the sandbar. See you in the spring. Kojac... :cool:

[MikeF]

steve@kps:
I just talked to my engine builder. He runs an alcohol injected 598 in his dragster. With a tunnel ram. He uses a nitrous solenoid, that pulls from the fuel tank to prime the engine before starting. Counts to 6 and fires it off. He said, you may be having the same problem. If your on gas, you may only need to count to 4 or 5, but it's worth a try!
good luck That is a good idea! I thought of a "cold start" switch would make it easier to fire :) . Might work really well on a draw through carbed turbo system.