Anyone with a Panther Performance kit Pump I need Help!!

[snowjw3090]

Hi 2 years ago we put a took our Panther pump out of our boat it would spin a little but thought we would freshin it up a little so we sent it down to Pather pumps and had the fancy Performance bronze bushing and everthing done. Anyway we have now installed the pump 4 times and it spins so bad that it is impossible to race or pull 2 skiers out of the water (it spins bad) So what I was wondering is it something that we are doing wrong I don't think it is the pump but man i'm getting tired of installing that thing. The last 2 times we installed the pump we made sure everthing was perfect. The only thing Steve told us is that since we have the old 3 point mounting sytem that is what is making it spin could this be true??? Anyway we are to the point of having a Panther dealer install the pump but we live a long way away from a dealer so I thought someone might be able to shed some light on this. Thanks

[wrenchdaddy]

when you say "spin" do you mean cavitate? You punch the gas and the motor revs up but you don;t get anywhere? If tahst the case you might need to check the seal around the pump where it bolts to the hull. If its getting air from ANYWHERE, tahst what the problem is.

[snowjw3090]

We have checked and double checked everthing. And yes the boat cavitates. Anyway we talked to Steve today and he said it is the 3 point mounting system and that we need the 4 bolt system. So hopefully that will fix the problem anyone else have this problem??

[jrork]

Check out Laidback Boaters Forums. There's a ton of information on Panthers and a series of discussions of cavatating Panthers.
Also give Cas on this board and the other a shout. He's a wealth of great info on these pumps.
John

[Squirtin Thunder]

We are working on making the Panther jet pump, pump more water !!! Jim the Tool Man is my gunipig for the tests. He has gained 3mph so far, we are shooting for much more !!!!

[jrork]

Hurry up would ya :wink:
Seriously, I hope you pull it off. If you start producing for others count me as one of your first customers.
Good luck and keep us Panther peeps posted..........John
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/2227IMG_2290_Large_Web_view.jpg

[Squirtin Thunder]

Hurry up would ya :wink:
Seriously, I hope you pull it off. If you start producing for others count me as one of your first customers.
Good luck and keep us Panther peeps posted..........John
We will keep you Panther guys posted as to the gains on Jims boat. And we plan on marketing the products for them when we have something solid.

[jrork]

Great. Thanks and good luck

[5th Horseman]

Hi 2 years ago we put a took our Panther pump out of our boat it would spin a little but thought we would freshin it up a little so we sent it down to Pather pumps and had the fancy Performance bronze bushing and everthing done. Anyway we have now installed the pump 4 times and it spins so bad that it is impossible to race or pull 2 skiers out of the water (it spins bad) So what I was wondering is it something that we are doing wrong I don't think it is the pump but man i'm getting tired of installing that thing. The last 2 times we installed the pump we made sure everthing was perfect. The only thing Steve told us is that since we have the old 3 point mounting sytem that is what is making it spin could this be true??? Anyway we are to the point of having a Panther dealer install the pump but we live a long way away from a dealer so I thought someone might be able to shed some light on this. Thanks
I had the "performance sleeve" put in my panther, I had the same problems you have. I'm sure panther steve told you about making sure the rock grate attaching bolts are well sealed. I also tried sealing around the vertical edges where the pump attaches to the hull behind the intake. I wonder if the added efficiency of the impeller is causing the prop shaft seal to leak, just a guess.
I'm having a real hard time believing that changing from a three point to a rail mount is going to change anything. The only real speed increase I've heard of is extending the ride plate 3 inches. I didn't try that but I did fix the problem, I installed a Dominator jet and am very happy with the results.
\
Paul
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[snowjw3090]

Well if you read the post above you will see that we have had are fair share of problems and well we thought we had it made untill today. Put the pump in for the 5th time last summer and at last it stoped spinning for the most part but still would cavitate a little. Anyways we pulled the grate off this winter thinking that somewere in the greate there was a small pinhole. Anyways this summer after trying to fix the grate it is way worse???? Steve told us that this part is very hard to get a good seal and that it has to be perfect. Anyone else have this problem with the grate??? We are thinking that the problems that we had before was not the pump being installed wrong it was the grate. Just looking for some help we have alot of money into the pump and a great motor and now the pump spins more than before we fixed it. We are very very carefull when we installed everytime so could it be anything else??? Also there are a few light chips in the hull before the grate would this cause any problems?? Maybe a casting flaw in the grate??? This boat use to be so fast out of the hole/ :cry:
Also seen a post on a guy trying to convert berk parts into a Panther is this true??? We would almost try anything to stop the spinning. Thanks

[Cas]

Jet Boat Performance has put together a pretty sweet conversion utilizing the intake and housing of the Panther. www.jetboatperformance.com
One of these days I'll get my hands on a Panther with the sleeve install so I can fiddle around with it. Until then I can only make guesses on what is going on. It seems there has been quite a few pumps with the exact same issue after the wear ring conversion.
Can you take the wear ring out easily? Can you spin it while it's in the pump?
How much clearanc eis there between the impeller and the wear ring? Was the impeller altered/machined for the waer ring?
Sorry about all the questions but I'd really like to get more of a feel on what was done. We also just started a pretty good discussion on the Panther board found here Panther Forums (http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/cas?forum=53232)
I'm really wondering if that wear ring conversion isn't a real good thing to do?

[malcolm]

Doesn't do much for my confidence in Panther pumps when the guys that make 'em have no clue how to fix 'em. :(

[Cas]

not the pump ;)

[American Turbine Man]

We have checked and double checked everthing. And yes the boat cavitates. Anyway we talked to Steve today and he said it is the 3 point mounting system and that we need the 4 bolt system. So hopefully that will fix the problem anyone else have this problem??
I can't think of any reason why a four point mounted engine would pull a skier any better. We are about to introduce the "Panther Engerizer Kit". Our first test boat was a 23 foot Sleek with a 454. Our kit increased the speed by 3 mph and reduced the RPM's by 700. I don't have my records at hand but, the customer is very pleased.
Our second boat is a popular 18 foot with a 454. We should be done with it this week.
ATM

[malcolm]

Alright! That's what I'm talkin 'bout! :rollside:

[snowjw3090]

What does this kit include???? Also what does it do??? I think we talked to you before on the phone about some of our problems. We know have the 4 bolt mounting system that Steve recomended. So is the intake plate this tuchy when you put it in????

[snowjw3090]

Cas the clearence is tight very tight that's why we think it's the grate and not the pump.Because at the end of last year the pup was pulling very had and would only slip to 6grand then would hook up and pull 5,500 R's So we took the grate off this winter and put it on again hoping that the little cavitaion was from the grate now it spins again BAD. Steve said they are tuchy and just one little pinhole will make it cavitate with the performance package.

[Cas]

ya know what, I'm losing some faith in what you're being told. I wish I had seen this thread last year with that 3 pt to 4 pt thing. Anyway, have you tried running without the grate? I know you're not supposed to do it but give it a try and see what happenes. Be real careful if you try it and make sure you're in at least 8' of water before running....it will suck up some nasty stuff.
The issue I'm having with these wear rings is the loss of the hole shot. One of the real good things about a Panther is the hole shot and to lose it after the wear ring installation is interesting. You say it was slipping a little prior to the work being done so there was a little issue before......how much horsepower are you putting to it?
next question- does your boat have the little "hump" molded into the intake just in front of the rock grate? You should also be able to see the depression looking at the insert from the top.

[jimthetoolman]

Check your housing bolts. I had the same problem with the main bolts that connect your housing to your pump. They have to be really tight or you will suck air big time . Jim

[Jim Brock]

somtimes when running dry on the trailer the mechanical will burn up and cause the pump to cavitate

[AZKC]

Hi 2 years ago we put a took our Panther pump out of our boat it would spin a little but thought we would freshin it up a little so we sent it down to Pather pumps and had the fancy Performance bronze bushing and everthing done. Anyway we have now installed the pump 4 times and it spins so bad that it is impossible to race or pull 2 skiers out of the water (it spins bad) So what I was wondering is it something that we are doing wrong I don't think it is the pump but man i'm getting tired of installing that thing. The last 2 times we installed the pump we made sure everthing was perfect. The only thing Steve told us is that since we have the old 3 point mounting sytem that is what is making it spin could this be true??? Anyway we are to the point of having a Panther dealer install the pump but we live a long way away from a dealer so I thought someone might be able to shed some light on this. Thanks
Its nothing to do with the install, or the 3 point mount. It can only be installed one way and when its in its in, done deal. I'm guessin but I'd take a good look at the intake area. And make sure there is no debris stuck in or around the impeller.

[malcolm]

I'm guessing the reasoning behind going to 4 point mounting is to take the engine weight off the front of the pump. Maybe they have seen a pump suck air from the back of the boat flexing under the extra weight. It does seem like they are really gasping at straws. I think the air problem is in the design. They say the intake is too wide and should be narrowed. Only reason I think it's helping is it makes it harder to suck air from around the sides.

[Cas]

In stock form, the Panther pump draws in a ton of water. The only reason to downsize the intake is to cut back on the amount of water when someone is looking to get more top end.
The issues I have found with the cav problem on a couple of different boats is as Jim just mentioned (stator to main housing seal) and poor transitions from intake to rock grate and also where the pump meets the hull. On one boat, the pump was installed with too much up angle which also caused a cav problem.
At the stator to pump housing, I've always used a polyurethane caulk instead of silicone. At the intake area, I've used the same caulk to smooth out all the transitions. The area I'm a bit concerned with is where they machine out the housing to install the wear ring. If there were deep pits already in the housing, there's a chance that air is being sucked into the pump between the wear ring and housing. The best way to check that is to pull the wear ring out and then shine a flashlight at the housing from the inside out. It would be helpful to do it at night ;)

[stoker2001]

Check your housing bolts. I had the same problem with the main bolts that connect your housing to your pump. They have to be really tight or you will suck air big time . JimHey buddy wasup,Stacie showed me a pic of the black flatty that is looking good :crossx: We should hook up next month as the boat traffic should mellow out alot at river?Heard the water level at CFW is getting real low.take care

[jimthetoolman]

Hey Kevin: That sounds good .. Good luck at the races.