I need Professional help !! :-)

[MarineBoy]

It's been two years , 2 complete rebuilds, and 6 attempts later and I still can't stop the water from getting in my oil. :hammerhea
Im at a point where I dont have the tools or knowledge :confused:
I need a mechanic, advice, help, whatever I can get at this point, but a mechanic is highly perfered. I'm just at that point where i just dont know what else to do??? I live in Maryland and cant keep pouring money into mechanics that can only talk the talk. If you can help, please contact me, but here is the jist of it, I have a 455 Olds/ 600-650hp, Jet drive I keep getting water in my oil, Runs awsome in my driveway :-) ... The person who can fix this has a customer for life, I need a mechanic I can call my own :-))) I love and know boats but i am stumped with this. I just dont know enough about H/P engines and Jet drives, and actually at this point i feel i dont know much about anything. If you can help, I will fill you in with whatever you need to know. I just want to be on the water, is that so much to ask :rollside:
Thanks everyone, JD

[jelloboat]

It's been two years , 2 complete rebuilds, and 6 attempts later and I still can't stop the water from getting in my oil. :hammerhea
Im at a point where I dont have the tools or knowledge :confused:
I need a mechanic, advice, help, whatever I can get at this point, but a mechanic is highly perfered. I'm just at that point where i just dont know what else to do??? I live in Maryland and cant keep pouring money into mechanics that can only talk the talk. If you can help, please contact me, but here is the jist of it, I have a 455 Olds/ 600-650hp, Jet drive I keep getting water in my oil, Runs awsome in my driveway :-) ... The person who can fix this has a customer for life, I need a mechanic I can call my own :-))) I love and know boats but i am stumped with this. I just dont know enough about H/P engines and Jet drives, and actually at this point i feel i dont know much about anything. If you can help, I will fill you in with whatever you need to know. I just want to be on the water, is that so much to ask :rollside:
Thanks everyone, JD
Well, as much as I know about this stuff it sounds to me as if you have a cracked block or cracked head. you need to take the motor apart and have everything magnufluxed.

[miketsouth]

Hey JD, where you been? We out there quite often, although we havent made it to the sandbar. You got my number why not call. If i dont know it i may find someone who does.
You know i am no mechanic, but i am willing to give advice.
If you are getting water in the oil, there are three possibilities that i know of:
1. condensation
2. reversion
3. block
a. overpressure
b. gasket
c. crack
Condensation. This happens when the seawater or block is cool. Blowby contains water, that and humid air can condense on the internal surfaces of a cold block.
I doubt this is your problem. Generally does not milk up the oil or cause a rise in level, but is seen as moisture/milk in the valve covers/pvc/ccv
2. Reversion. A fair possibility. Water injected into the headers, under low throttle conditions, especially with a big cam will go backward and fill your block with water. Along with maybe you will loose an exhaust vavle or hydro the engine, it is something to be aware of.
I have never have had injected headers, but know the story well. I even get it with my waterjacket headers. If i got it right, no water to the headers below 1500- 2000rpm, and then just enough to keep the chrome from blueing, as that is all it is there for.
3a. Block overpressure.
The jetpump is capable of putting over 100psi to your block. I understand it is very hard to get an olds to seal against any kind of pressure, the intake manifold and timing cover being the big offenders, even if they dont leak at low pressure, they will over about 15psi. It is common for people to just allow the jetpump to give all the water the block will handle. No good.
You must install a block pressure gauge
You must not exceed 15psi on an olds
You must not throttle the water out of the block, but rather into the block
You must install a block pressure gauge
2b/c. Block gasket/crack.
Again intake and timing cover gasket are common culprits, although the head gasket could do it. A cracked head/cylinder is not unheard of.
When assembled you must not have a leaking gasket. The quick and dirty mikeT test is (after installing a block pressure gauge) to seal the block, fill with water, vent all air and pressurize to 15psi max. The test for no air is that even a few drops leaked at any point will drop the pressure drasticly. Put it to the test by bleeding a few drops and watch the pressure drop. Refill to 15psi(max) of water, watch for stable/dropped pressure, should hold it within 2psi or so all day, but an hour should do it.
I use a garden hose hooked to the line that comes out of the pump. I use the (required) valve to let the water in.
I just block all the other lines, making sure i can bleed air from them.
If no leaks crank the engine, but dont start it (sparkplugs in). A couple of rounds will expose a bad head gasket and even a cracked head/cylinder as the pressure will rise from cranking pressure leaking into the water jacket.
If it does leak, i dont know where to tell you to start. I would suggest looking in the cylinders first, just to get an idea.
Wet and others here with 455 engines are very familiar with where they leak and can give you more info on how to get a good seal.
You guys who ARE mechanics, if you think i am (again) blowing smoke, speak up!. And if you know what makes rocker studs break at or in the polylock...spill it.
kill the bigblock

[Sleek468]

Are you close to delaware where I could help you?

[R.A.D.man]

I have solved the same problem in my Olds as you have. My problem always came from the intake manifold seal to the heads. Even with new manifold and new aluminum heads it would happen. Even with a professional assembly, it would happen. For me it all goes back to what mikesouth suggests about the block pressure. First put a mechanical gauge in the intake mounted so you or someone else can see it while under way and as mikesouth suggests, 15 psi max. Mine runs 3 to 8 psi to about 5000 rpm and at full throttle, I see it jump to 13 psi. It is only a 15 psi gauge. Then you need a bypass line like explained. On mine I have a tee just after the pipe from the pump. From that tee, I go through an adjustable pressure regulator and out the back of the boat with 3/4-inch line. The good pump guys have these regulators for low psi adjustment and good flow. From the other side of the tee, I go through a ball valve and to the motor. The ball valve almost always is full open, but I like it because I am hard piped to that point and if a water line blows, I can shut off the water from the pump and keep it from flooding. The key for me was to patiently adjust that bypass regulator until I can go WOT without too high a psi. At idle, all water goes to the block because the bypass shuts at low PSI.

[MarKist]

MarineBoy, first you need to give us some info on you rig ,like
do you have?
headers or Logs
Tee valve, Bassett or other
pressure gauge
water line sizes (in and out)
Cam spec. ,(for reversion)
these will give us a better idea of what where dealing with ??
if you got a little time do a search on "water in oil" it's all rite there bro :D
Give it a shot! you won't beleive what you can find on the forums :clover:
Markist

[localwaterboy]

I went down and did a compression test today with him 190 psi on every cyl.
yes headers
yes tee valve
yes pressure guage (got up to almost 20psi at 3k rpm)
I'm as lost as he is about this thing.

[miketsouth]

if you got a little time do a search on "water in oil" it's all rite there bro :D
Give it a shot! you won't beleive what you can find on the forums :clover:
Markist
I guess i forgot that one, it is probably the most important one

[miketsouth]

I went down and did a compression test today with him 190 psi on every cyl.
yes headers
yes tee valve
yes pressure guage (got up to almost 20psi at 3k rpm)
I'm as lost as he is about this thing.
that might be it. What i dont know is when the overpressure happens does it blow the gasket or does it reseal. Do the waterpressure/leakdown test.
A relief vavle may be in order....go to the top of the page and find 'search' type in relief vavle.......lots of opinions, 'facts' etc. but it will lead you to where you want to go, i think.
Hey Markist, what spacing do you use for the inducer to impeller,,,i measured a spacer at .885, or does the inducer impeller sit right next to the impeller.

[MarKist]

hey Mike, that's about rite, I can't remember right of of the top of my head ,but it seems that it was close to an inch, so your in the neighborhood,if you want me to make sure let me know?
ok if the water pressure is 20 psi at 3 grand then its getting to high at WOT ,so I would check the t -valve to see if everything is working rite,the ball and spring sometimes gets trash in it or its rusts, if it's rusty trash it!! and get new ones ,does the water shut off at idle??and the steam stops?if it does then thats ok ,next try to add a bigger or extra dump line that will bring the pressuse down so the tee won't open so soon and your block pressure will come down to like 5psi at 3 grand try that !!
I had the same problem the first time I went out, the pressure was 65psi at WOT, so I added a extra dump line cause the dump line was to small (8AN)then I went to the same size line as the inlet (10 AN) and solved the problem! give it a try ,let us know how it turns out!
Markist

[miketsouth]

hey Mike, that's about rite, I can't remember right of of the top of my head ,but it seems that it was close to an inch, so your in the neighborhood,if you want me to make sure let me know?
Markist
I took the measurements off of the ID and length on the impeller and the bushing length while they was sitting on a shelf. Gonna do what you told me to do (what a great idea), i just wondered about where the bushing went, kind of figured it went inbetween the impeller and the inducer. I suppose i can figure out the rest of it, wear ring clearance and such. I have not had the impeller off to see what kind of wear ring i got.
I dont expect much from it, as i got no HP to need it. On the other hand i might get me a cheep D impeller and use the inducer to see if i cannot get a little more HP/RPM. My bowl is external and i can change impellers almost 'on the fly' in case SuperSoaker beat me on top end :D
and i think you got it for MARINEBOY...more dump will lower pressure. If he got 20psi at 3000 he probably got 70 at 5000. I run my SBC at about 25 at WOT, but they can take it, i suppose, and i like pressure, as i run 180 at WOT with the warm water we got now. My waterjackets like the pressure too, keeps them from boiling, same in the block.
Kill the Bigblock

[MarineBoy]

Hey Mike, it has been a long, long two years. Been working 90% of the time and the other 10% has been split between this boat and the new Garage I have going up to work on this boat :-). My bigest problem is that I have had no where to work on this thing and if I had a place, I dont have the tools, so I keep letting people work on it who know nothing and have damaged more than fixed.
OK I will give a complete history, and by the way thanks to everyone for all this input, I am just so lost i feel like giving up, and thats not like me, and I will extend this offer to everyone and anyone on here, because I know what it is like to have a passion and not be able to enjoy it. My garage will done in about a month or so, 1000 of the 3000 sq' is just for boats all I need to do is take a little time to stock it with tools:-) So if anyone ever needs room as I did, i got ya covered. The other 2000 will be for poker in the off season :D
OK, I got the boat 2 yrs ago, I ran it "one" day. It ran like a champ, the only problem was that a "Doo" kept up with me. I yanked it out of the water took it to a good friend who Races pro stock and of course we could make it do amazing speeds. well when I got it back, I had it in the water for ole 15 min and had the first round of water in the oil. There was so much head work done, I blew two holes into the water jackets and back in the shop it went. 3rd round when I first met Mike and he helped me get towed back in :cool: The intake went....more water.... come to find out thie nice new manifold my buddy got me a great deal on was warped. Had the whole top hat redone, my pretty new manifold took about another 600 to fix...and guess what.....this time out......more water.... Finally i got smart and figured auto mechanics dont know boats, and ford guys dont know Olds's, and engines arent all the same, and excuses are just that...at least thats what i want to believe so I dont loose a life long friendship over thousands of wasted dollars and a once good engine that now has so many bad pieces that I dont know where to start.
I just find it hard to believe that this once beautiful working piece of machinery has had so many problems. I am not done with the story so I will be back on later to finish, I have to run.
Thank you everyone, i have so much info in my head right now i confused, I also posted on dragboats.com and have had about 20 phone calls telling me thing to check i have never even heard of.
Ill be back on later
Thanks
JD

[MarineBoy]

OK, I am going to try to finish this time....
Heres my info...
I have injected bassett headers.
NO tee valve, I have a Manual switch due to the overlap in my cam.
Pressure valve on Manifold.
5/8 in/out water line. 1/2 to headers.
I dont have tool to do leakdown test, borrowed a compression tester and was at 190 across the board.
I have ordered a bleed off valve to regulate psi from jet and thermostat kit with dual dump and am going to institute that after the next rebuild. I flushed the engine again last night and by the sound of it, im pretty sure I lost another bearing, so im starting from scratch again.
I honestly think there are multiple problems. there is water in the valleys as though the head gaskets are shot, there is condensation as well, and my breather seem as if there is blow-by. the amount of water in the oil is great and after all this im thinking cracked head/block. They used copper haed gaskets, with copper receiver ring but now i hear thats a big nono in marine engines, I am pretty sure there is no silicone on the head bolts, and after another call from Ca. last night I think my heads were built wrong. Incredibly built for a pro stock machine, but just wont work for marine.
At this point all i can do is start completely over again, and hope i can get this all figured out and find the right people to do the right work, so where are the machine shops that work on marine engines, i guess i need to start by getting everything Maged and my heads looke at.
I just want to thank you all for all this, i should have started here in the first place, never to late to learn, garage is done in a month and I just hope to see you all on the water next summer