The REAL greatest danger..........

[SmokinLowriderSS]

to the future of the US (and to the safety of you and your familiy) .....
The ACLU
The NYCLU is suing to stop bag and personal searches on the NYC subway system by the NYPD. As soon as they find a loony enough judge to agree that it is a violation of someone's right to personal privacy, the airport searches will also cease, untill overturned by a higher apeals court, and then another, finally to the US supreme Court. The ACLU has tried (and is still trying) to stop every single anti-terrorist measure anyone attempts to do to protect you & I, thus, THEY will be the death of this nation if not stopped.
ACLU opposes the patriot act.
ACLU opposes any stress in an interogation (cooersion).
ACLU opposes sending terrorist suspects to any country (includign their own) if that country may cooerce or torture them to gain information.
ACLU demands all terrorist suspects be given access to the US legal and courts system, even if they are not US citizens.
ACLU opposes any manner of racial profiling to attempt to identify likely terrorist suspects (Arabic males 18 to 35 years of age).
ACLU opposed the Minuitemen watching the southern US border trying to spot and report persons entering the USA illegally.
ACLU wants more pictures of the torture and atrocities (torture and atrocities my arse, I could show them a few real ones they have forgotten) at the Abu Gharib prison, which has no purpose other than to incite more anti-US violence, thus killing more US people overseas (US Mil & Civilians).
Obviously the ACLU is (at best) a sympathizer giving aid & comfort to an enemy or (at worst) a partisan sabateur actively helping the enemy.

[Blown 472]

to the future of the US (and to the safety of you and your familiy) .....
The ACLU
The NYCLU is suing to stop bag and personal searches on the NYC subway system by the NYPD. As soon as they find a loony enough judge to agree that it is a violation of someone's right to personal privacy, the airport searches will also cease, untill overturned by a higher apeals court, and then another, finally to the US supreme Court. The ACLU has tried (and is still trying) to stop every single anti-terrorist measure anyone attempts to do to protect you & I, thus, THEY will be the death of this nation if not stopped.
ACLU opposes the patriot act.
ACLU opposes any stress in an interogation (cooersion).
ACLU opposes sending terrorist suspects to any country (includign their own) if that country may cooerce or torture them to gain information.
ACLU demands all terrorist suspects be given access to the US legal and courts system, even if they are not US citizens.
ACLU opposes any manner of racial profiling to attempt to identify likely terrorist suspects (Arabic males 18 to 35 years of age).
ACLU opposed the Minuitemen watching the southern US border trying to spot and report persons entering the USA illegally.
ACLU wants more pictures of the torture and atrocities (torture and atrocities my arse, I could show them a few real ones they have forgotten) at the Abu Gharib prison, which has no purpose other than to incite more anti-US violence, thus killing more US people overseas (US Mil & Civilians).
Obviously the ACLU is (at best) a sympathizer giving aid & comfort to an enemy or (at worst) a partisan sabateur actively helping the enemy.
And you are ready to give up everything?

[Steve 1]

The ACLU = Filthy Communist Bast--ds

[HighRoller]

ACLU=America's Criminals and Liberals United
These douchebags have to stand against random searches in the NY subway because they're afraid some of their clients will get caught up in the dragnet with kiddie porn or drugs in their bag. Did I mention they represent NAMBLA? That stands for North American Man-Boy Love Association, an organization that promotes and encourages the rape of young boys on its website. I believe B472 is a member, and the ACLU defends them pro bono when one of their members rapes and/or kills a little boy.
In my eyes, only the guilty are afraid of random searches. These scumbags might as well be on retainer by Al Quaeda because they're sure as hell not on our side. And to hear these sacks of shyt stand up and righteously proclaim they're "defending the constitution" makes me wanna puke until I see my shoelaces. When was the last time these commie nutjobs ever stood up in court for gun owners who were being deprived their "constitutional rights"? They're defending liberalism, communism and terrorism. Period. :boxingguy

[cxr133]

WHOA........ calm down there gentlemen
remember the liberty's you save may be for for own good one day!!!
an old jewish guy told me this one time....
if you lived on a street with a arab, a n.korean, a black and a white.
what happens one day when they (the man, police, goverment whatever you wanna call them) come and get the arab, and he is looking for help and you look the other way?
the next time they come and get the n.korean and the same thing happens and so on for the black.....
BUT...... one day they come to get you and you look around for help and there is noone there
(something like that i dont remember it verbatim)

[Jeanyus]

Don't forget the ACLU sued the Boy Scouts, because they would not let gay men be scout leaders. That would be like the fox guarding the hen house.
I am against airport searches, I think that all people who look and sound like they are from the middle east, should be lined up and strip searched. Everyone else goes to another line and walks through. When they get tired of this, the so called good Muslims (they all read the same Koran, which calls for the destruction of all infidells. That means you!) might start turning in the ones who want to kill everyone, but I wouldent hold my breath.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Interesting perspective jeanyus. Against airport searches yet for searching all terrorist stereotypes (males 18 to 35 or so).
Don't get me wrong, I think that's the way it should happen .... BUT ..... the folks driving the PC and Anti-"profiling" stuff, the ACLU (Anti-american Comunists Living Undercover.

[cxr133]

lets remember who did the oklahoma city bombing....
are you saying you want the government to do background checks, fingerprint on all white males 18-48 to rent a car or truck
i was accused of running drugs from hayward, ca to la once because i fit the description... i was going to hayward for a bachelor party... rented car lots of cash and i fit the description

[Jeanyus]

If a bank gets robbed by a 30 year old white male 5 foot 6" tall, driving a white Chevy.
Do the police start pulling over cars with 5 foot 80 year old females in blue sedans, in order to be P.C.?

[SmokinLowriderSS]

That's an old proverb cxr, aprox circa 2nd world war....
"They came for the jews, and I said nothing."
"They came for the Catholics and I said nothing."
"They came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."
Yes, it IS apropriate, but in what context?
What freedom is there for the dead? Explain freedom to the families of 2,700+ people who USED to live & work in NY City (untill late 2001).
What freedom is there when you cannot call a spade a spade, you must call it "length-challenged-handled, pointed, metal-bladed, device for destroying the integrity of Mother Earth?"
1942, National Socialist Germany landed 8 sabateurs on US East Coast soil by submarine. They were all captured before causing any harm. Does anyone recall this, or their punishment. No, they were not POW's, they were found in CIVILIAN CLOTHING. Yes, they were held in prison till the war ended. Then they were hanged as spies (and sabateurs they were) as soon as the war was over. Also, durring the Battle of the Bulge (1944) German soldiers were captured wearing US Army uniforms. They were sumarally shot as spies.
We are in a time of war here. Extrordinary times call for extrordinary measures. The 4th amendment to the US constitution CAN be restricted from time to time. The glorious 1st Amendment has been restricted almost since the beginning of this country, and it is still alive and well with nobody complaining:
You cannot incite panic with speech. (fire in a crowded building)
You cannot incite violence or riotous behavior.
You cannot make threats to someone (simple assault = "I'm gonna punch you in the eye!") Go ahead and do it and it is assault & battery.
You CANNOT actively advocate the overthrow or downfall of the US government (or any state government). "SEDITION". However, you can voice your displeasure and try to make change as long as you do not advocate violent change.
PROFILING (a special "button" of mine)
To truly not "profile", the police, upon gettign a report of a rapist (for example) must start questioning both genders, and ALL races and ages, even with a witness. Just because the injured party said the rapist was white male (or whatever you pick), if you only look for someone of that color and gender, you are "profiling" in your search (unless you have an ID (name)). To not profile, blacks, hispanics, asians, AND women must be questioned. Children as well unless you commit "age profiling".
Note the stupidity of NOT "profiling" a suspect.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Anyone who wants to has to go a very SHORT distance to do any background checks on me, and is welcome to do all they want as far as I am concerned. The US Govt has a file about a foot thick on me, courtesy of the Department of Defence, the US Air Force, and the National Guard Bureau. I have no "special" clearances, but I do have clearances for things I need them for. If I resemble someone the LE are looking for, I'm pretty sure very shortly they will be diciding I am not the perp. I suppose my understanding of them (doing their job) stems some from my being in Mil Security and Law Enforcement, I wind up with the same job to do, so I make it easy on them.

[cxr133]

smokin im gonna "PUNCH" you in the eye :smile:
im not totally disagreeing with you... i agree that it is an inconvenience that everyone's bags get searched when trying to get on an airplane... when it a certain "profile/type" of people that are know to blow planes up.
i was just saying that the ACLU also fights for AMERICAN's rights.
the Patriot Act takes alot of Americans liberties away while under the guise to fight terrorism.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

lets remember who did the oklahoma city bombing....
are you saying you want the government to do background checks, fingerprint on all white males 18-48 to rent a car or truck
White males who are ex-military, are discharged with less than good records, live for a while with white-supremacist groups, are 18-48, rent a rental truck with CASH. ............................ Yes, they should not only be fingerprinted, they should be TRACKED and surveiled (watched).

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Those rights are easy to return once the would-be murderers who want you & I dead just because we aren't islamic are stopped, permanently.
Curfews, fuel rations, detentions (of the Japanese and German nationals) and other "inconveniences" stopped after the 2nd world war.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

The ACLU picks some strange rights to fight for .............. NAMBLA's right to have a website posting HOW to "seduce" young boys is likely the most notorious.

[cxr133]

thats the catch 22
give us the right to burn the america flag..
the KKK gets the right to march down the main boulevard..
is NAMBLA real. i thought that was just a southpark joke

[HighRoller]

Oh they are real....and you wouldn't believe what they say!!!!!!!! Google search NAMBLA. They have numbers as their website, not an address. And for those who won't search, their mission statement is this:
NAMBLA's goal is to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships. (This is VERBATIM from their website)
Their justfication is...get this!.... AGE-ISM! It's like racism! They disagree with anyone who judges their partners based on age!!!! When a person uses the term "childish" or "child", they are an ageist!!!OMFG!!!! If you denegrate these pervs because they screw little boys in the butt, you're an AGE-IST!! And the ACLU can represent these pedophiles and sleep at night!! HOW????

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Aint that crap the truth HighRoller. :burningm: I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there are folks who didn't think MANBLA was a reality (not a shot across your bow cxr) :mix: , it is a mighty big world and, though it takes all kinds to fill it, some of those kinds should NOT be in it. Millions of folks WISH it was just a bad SouthPark joke, and tens of thousands of kids do to (I'm an ageist bastahd, dammm right.)

[SmokinLowriderSS]

You have the right to burn the flag (nobody has passed a law denying it ... yet). Do I have a right to wrap you up in it?
The Klan has the right to have marches. So do the 100,000 to 1 people who despise the klan. Who gets the notariety? The Klan is dying, I give it another 50 years.

[Seadog]

What I deplore that the Patriot Act is necessary, I deplore the reasons for it even more. You talk about losing liberties to the Patriot Act. Total freedom is anarchy. Our society is based on freedoms granted by the majority for the good of all. We have the right to want more freedom, but the child that has total freedom is never happy. Neither is the person who wants the government to leave him alone. I know people who have tried to get away with failure to pay their taxes, saying that the government did not deserve the money they earned. Yet they are not shy about their jobs that depend on the government. Their roads built by the government. Their families protected by the government. We the people have decided that for what we do and say, we shall give up a portion of what we say, do and earn, so that our present and future continues to be blessed. A perfect system? Never, but it is still the best possible.
Do you see the drastic measures being taken in Great Britain happening here? Do you see any other country where an organization, not government run, would pull the carp that the NCAA is pulling? We are a nation spoiled by our freedoms and too many of us have allowed extremism become a substitution for common sense.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Well spoken Seadog. Hope Mrs Seadog is feeling better by the way. :shift:

[HM]

I disagree a little with seadog, but not in a bad way. Total freedom without consequences in anarchy. Freedom with consequences is what the U.S. is built on - and the ACLU is doing everything they can to minimize consequences and place blame on society and the rich republicans.
My kids have more choices than they really want, but, they have to live with the consequences of their choices. Some people think I am too harsh on them, but the price they pay when they are little is really minor compared to the price they pay as an irresponsible adult. I never really tell them exactly what to do, I give them choices and always follow through...and I hope they make lots of bad decisions as kids because they learn the most. Some friends say that we are too hard on the kids when we follow through with the consequenses and they seem genuinely sorry. I tell them that them being sorry just means they are good kids, but in life they don't get out of things because they are sorry (although that almost isn't true these days). It is hard at times because I don't want to be mean to my kids and make them cry, but it is infinitely meaner to raise them thinking all they have to say is that they are sorry and mommy and daddy will take care of it.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Quite true HolyMoly, and don't think that is really a disagreement with Seadog. :idea:
You and I have a similar way of teaching the kiddies how to succeed (and just survive) in this world. It'd be so much better to be able to shelter tham from everything, allow everything to just be "OK". That would only leave them in the position that they have no idea how the world really is or what it takes to get through every day in 1 piece. That would be a disservice to my kids as their partent. My job is to make them acceptable to society, and to give them the skills (teach, not give) to become successes in whatever they wish to succeed in. My kids get to make some decisions, based on the decision, their age, their maturity level, etc. If they make a good one, they know it, if they make a bad one, they know that too, and learn a lesson from it, thus they grow as people.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Oh, I DO see some drastic measures being taken here .... just as soon as another explosive (or series of them) goes off in one (or several) major cities in THIS country.
Unfortunately, there are people who are going to sleep after being awakened in September of 2001.

[Blown 472]

Quite true HolyMoly, and don't think that is really a disagreement with Seadog. :idea:
You and I have a similar way of teaching the kiddies how to succeed (and just survive) in this world. It'd be so much better to be able to shelter tham from everything, allow everything to just be "OK". That would only leave them in the position that they have no idea how the world really is or what it takes to get through every day in 1 piece. That would be a disservice to my kids as their partent. My job is to make them acceptable to society, and to give them the skills (teach, not give) to become successes in whatever they wish to succeed in. My kids get to make some decisions, based on the decision, their age, their maturity level, etc. If they make a good one, they know it, if they make a bad one, they know that too, and learn a lesson from it, thus they grow as people.
and to trust everything the gubment tells you and watch tv news as they never lie or bend the truth to fit their paymasters.

[Blown 472]

Oh, I DO see some drastic measures being taken here .... just as soon as another explosive (or series of them) goes off in one (or several) major cities in THIS country.
Unfortunately, there are people who are going to sleep after being awakened in September of 2001.
Something you might enjoy, look for the key phrases.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9698.htm

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Well, I made it through a paragraph and a half this time. Someone tell me why I keep actually checking out Blown's hot-links he posts? :sleeping: Nothing but more "Iraq War For Oil" BS, this time disguised as "Iraq War To Keep US Dollar As A Valued International Currency For The Purchase Of Oil". :hammerhea
Hey Blown :argue: ..... Didja forget 2,700 people DIED in mid September about oh ........ 4 farkin' years ago???? Know who killed them???? Islamic Fascist Terrorists. Wanna see it hapen here again??? Just Wait. :mad: :mad:

[Forkin' Crazy]

I found it interesting. A little far fetched maybe......
or we may be DOOOOOOMED :supp:
LOL!!!!;)

[Blown 472]

Well, I made it through a paragraph and a half this time. Someone tell me why I keep actually checking out Blown's hot-links he posts? :sleeping: Nothing but more "Iraq War For Oil" BS, this time disguised as "Iraq War To Keep US Dollar As A Valued International Currency For The Purchase Of Oil". :hammerhea
Hey Blown :argue: ..... Didja forget 2,700 people DIED in mid September about oh ........ 4 farkin' years ago???? Know who killed them???? Islamic Fascist Terrorists. Wanna see it hapen here again??? Just Wait. :mad: :mad:
Still waiting for the link between that and Iraq, hell your boy even said there wasn't one.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Still waiting for the link between that and Iraq, hell your boy even said there wasn't one.
Yea, a little late for that now..... I just wish we could get through and get our troops the hell out of there. Boy, is that a mouthful. I don't see it happening anytime soon either.... :mad:

[Freak]

Well, I made it through a paragraph and a half this time. Someone tell me why I keep actually checking out Blown's hot-links he posts? :sleeping: Nothing but more "Iraq War For Oil" BS, this time disguised as "Iraq War To Keep US Dollar As A Valued International Currency For The Purchase Of Oil". :hammerhea
Hey Blown :argue: ..... Didja forget 2,700 people DIED in mid September about oh ........ 4 farkin' years ago???? Know who killed them???? Islamic Fascist Terrorists. Wanna see it hapen here again??? Just Wait. :mad: :mad:
What gives the dollar value?

[Seadog]

My personal feelings about the situation is that I suspect someone realized that by attacking Afganistan, we were going to create a focal point for the 'chosen' warriors to attack the American 'infidels'. Afganistan is a lousy terrain to fight a battle for a proper military force.
Saddam, while not overtly giving support to terrorist forces, has been funding and promoting their efforts. Better for us to choose to attract the 'holy warriors' to a location that we can better create a future 'roach motel' effect. If we can establish a friendly political force that can control their own situation aftera few years, we will be much better off. Iraq has some serious advantages to our efforts. It is the most modern of the middle est societies. Women are used to having rights and priviledges. I think we have underestimated our problems to a degree and political problems are never predictable, but it is still our best opportunity. Better there than here and Europe.
Lowrider, thanks for asking about my wife. She was starting to feel better as the Texoma weekend went on and was pretty much over her bug by Monday or Tuesday.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Still waiting for the link between that and Iraq, hell your boy even said there wasn't one.
OK Blown, read carefully. Bush said there was no "DIRECT LINK" BETWEEN SADDAM HUSSEIN AND THE ATTACKS ON NY ON 09/11/01. Saddam Hussein did not specifically teach the Saudi Al-Queda members how to crash a 757 into a building. He did not provide visas, passports, plane rides, spending $$$ (for the strip bars they hung out at). The entire attack was planned, supplied, supported directly, and executed from Afghanistan's core group of Al-Queda as far as anyone can tell.
Now, for the rest of the story you ignore.
Saddam Husseins govt was assisting Al-Queda for years PRIOR TO 09/11/01. Saddam's govt security minister had been meeting off and on with Al Zarkawi and other high-ranking Al-Queda members well before 2001. Al Zarkawi was injured in combat in Afghanistan. Where was he cared for to recover, Baghdad, Iraq. Do you NOT think it was with Saddam Hussein's blessing? There is a LOOONG history of Saddam Hussein dealing with, providing money to, training to, inteligence to, providing shelter and aid to ---- here it is --- AL-QUEDA, from the late 1990's all the way till we deposed him in 2003.

[Blown 472]

OK Blown, read carefully. Bush said there was no "DIRECT LINK" BETWEEN SADDAM HUSSEIN AND THE ATTACKS ON NY ON 09/11/01. Saddam Hussein did not specifically teach the Saudi Al-Queda members how to crash a 757 into a building. He did not provide visas, passports, plane rides, spending $$$ (for the strip bars they hung out at). The entire attack was planned, supplied, supported directly, and executed from Afghanistan's core group of Al-Queda as far as anyone can tell.
Now, for the rest of the story you ignore.
Saddam Husseins govt was assisting Al-Queda for years PRIOR TO 09/11/01. Saddam's govt security minister had been meeting off and on with Al Zarkawi and other high-ranking Al-Queda members well before 2001. Al Zarkawi was injured in combat in Afghanistan. Where was he cared for to recover, Baghdad, Iraq. Do you NOT think it was with Saddam Hussein's blessing? There is a LOOONG history of Saddam Hussein dealing with, providing money to, training to, inteligence to, providing shelter and aid to ---- here it is --- AL-QUEDA, from the late 1990's all the way till we deposed him in 2003.
Ok, but now here is the kicker, we where able to track them down to saudi arabia but yet we are not bombing the shit out of them, why????

[SmokinLowriderSS]

What gives the dollar value?
I don't understand that one myself either. Am I supposed to believe that foreign countries buy oil in US Dollars?
Sooooo England uses the Pound Sterling for everything they do abroad EXCEPT to buy oil?
France or germany use the Euro to import things EXCEPT they use the US$ to buy oil?
Japan uses the US$ instead of the Japanese Yen to buy oil?
What does Cominust (mainland) China use if not THEIR OWN NATIONAL currency, ours?!?!?!!?
My BS flag is at the masthead again.................... :cool:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Ok, but now here is the kicker, we where able to track them down to saudi arabia but yet we are not bombing the shit out of them, why????
Because (untill 2 weeks ago) the House of Saud (royal family of Saudi Arabia) was basically friendly toward the US (Yes, there IS the glaring exception of Crown Prince Fahd, who is probably King Fahd by now). ALSO...... Saudi Arabia is suffering a problem with Islamic Extremists too. The Islamo-Fascists want to install an international Islamic Caliphate (look up what leadership job a Caliph has) to rule the Islamic world.
Guess what, that throws out ALL the royal houses, including the House of Saud.
The Saudi's are chasing Al-Queda too, in their own country, trying to keep their corrupt and not very well publicly liked govt from being toppled. The Saudis have their own problems and we don't HAVE to jack with them right now.
BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TO Blown. :D

[Blown 472]

I don't understand that one myself either. Am I supposed to believe that foreign countries buy oil in US Dollars?
Sooooo England uses the Pound Sterling for everything they do abroad EXCEPT to buy oil?
France or germany use the Euro to import things EXCEPT they use the US$ to buy oil?
Japan uses the US$ instead of the Japanese Yen to buy oil?
What does Cominust (mainland) China use if not THEIR OWN NATIONAL currency, ours?!?!?!!?
My BS flag is at the masthead again.................... :cool:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Asian_Economy/GD09Dk01.html

[Blown 472]

Because (untill 2 weeks ago) the House of Saud (royal family of Saudi Arabia) was basically friendly toward the US (Yes, there IS the glaring exception of Crown Prince Fahd, who is probably King Fahd by now). ALSO...... Saudi Arabia is suffering a problem with Islamic Extremists too. The Islamo-Fascists want to install an international Islamic Caliphate (look up what leadership job a Caliph has) to rule the Islamic world.
Guess what, that throws out ALL the royal houses, including the House of Saud.
The Saudi's are chasing Al-Queda too, in their own country, trying to keep their corrupt and not very well publicly liked govt from being toppled. The Saudis have their own problems and we don't HAVE to jack with them right now.
BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TO Blown. :D
Ok, bs meter is pegged. Or could it be bush is buddies with them??

[SmokinLowriderSS]

OOPs, I just realized I got names wrong .... king fahd, .... Prince Abdullah.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Well, if you trust TIME MAGAZINE ............
Posted Monday, Aug. 01, 2005
A 30-year era ended in Saudi Arabia Monday when King Fahd bin Abdulaziz al Saud succumbed to his numerous ailments and died in a Riyadh hospital at the age of 84. Fahd effectively took the reins of power in 1975, serving as the de facto ruler under his brother King Khalid and then becoming King himself upon Khalid's death in 1982
The terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, orchestrated by Saudi native Osama bin Laden and carried out by 15 Saudi militants, ensured that Fahd would go down in history as the Saudi ruler who turned a blind eye to growing Islamic extremism. To protect the regime from spreading Islamic revolution following Ayatullah Khomeini's overthrow of the Shah of Iran, Fahd gave the Kingdom's ultra conservative Islamic establishment the green light to promote an ever rigid Wahhabi form of Islam so long as it continued to recognize the legitimacy of the House of Saud as Saudi Arabia's political leadership. After the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, he worked with the U.S. government to encourage a jihad against the Red Army. During Fahd's reign, the country imposed a stricter dress code for women, continued to ban women from driving and spent billions exporting Wahhabi teachings and building mosques throughout the Islamic world. The policy backfired not only with the September 11 attacks in the U.S. but two years later inside the Kingdom itself, when Bin Laden's organization started a jihad against Al Saud rule with a series of terrorist attacks.
Note the END of the paragraph...............
The policy backfired not only with the September 11 attacks in the U.S. but two years later inside the Kingdom itself, when Bin Laden's organization started a jihad against Al Saud rule with a series of terrorist attacks.
Blown's BS meter just broke it's pointer.
What else ya want me to look up? :lightsabe

[Blown 472]

Well, if you trust TIME MAGAZINE ............
Posted Monday, Aug. 01, 2005
A 30-year era ended in Saudi Arabia Monday when King Fahd bin Abdulaziz al Saud succumbed to his numerous ailments and died in a Riyadh hospital at the age of 84. Fahd effectively took the reins of power in 1975, serving as the de facto ruler under his brother King Khalid and then becoming King himself upon Khalid's death in 1982
The terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, orchestrated by Saudi native Osama bin Laden and carried out by 15 Saudi militants, ensured that Fahd would go down in history as the Saudi ruler who turned a blind eye to growing Islamic extremism. To protect the regime from spreading Islamic revolution following Ayatullah Khomeini's overthrow of the Shah of Iran, Fahd gave the Kingdom's ultra conservative Islamic establishment the green light to promote an ever rigid Wahhabi form of Islam so long as it continued to recognize the legitimacy of the House of Saud as Saudi Arabia's political leadership. After the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, he worked with the U.S. government to encourage a jihad against the Red Army. During Fahd's reign, the country imposed a stricter dress code for women, continued to ban women from driving and spent billions exporting Wahhabi teachings and building mosques throughout the Islamic world. The policy backfired not only with the September 11 attacks in the U.S. but two years later inside the Kingdom itself, when Bin Laden's organization started a jihad against Al Saud rule with a series of terrorist attacks.
Note the END of the paragraph...............
The policy backfired not only with the September 11 attacks in the U.S. but two years later inside the Kingdom itself, when Bin Laden's organization started a jihad against Al Saud rule with a series of terrorist attacks.
Blown's BS meter just broke it's pointer.
What else ya want me to look up? :lightsabe
So more of a link then iraq but yet noooo bombs?? strange.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Like I said .... WE DON'T HAVE TO INVADE THEM. They are having to fight Al-Queda themselves. I even posted the last line for ya TWICE so you couldn't possibly miss it.
:rolleyes:

[bellababe]

Still waiting for the link between that and Iraq, hell your boy even said there wasn't one.
When are these republicans gonna finally get it??? I can't believe they think we are in Iraq because of 9/11. Last time I checked Osama was responsible for 9/11, but I guess Bush would rather concentrate on Sadam. Go figure!!

[Blown 472]

Like I said .... WE DON'T HAVE TO INVADE THEM. They are having to fight Al-Queda themselves. I even posted the last line for ya TWICE so you couldn't possibly miss it.
:rolleyes:
You mean like offering them immunity?? hell of a fight they are putting up.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

When are these republicans gonna finally get it??? I can't believe they think we are in Iraq because of 9/11. Last time I checked Osama was responsible for 9/11, but I guess Bush would rather concentrate on Sadam. Go figure!!
We are in Iraq for 2 reasons.
#1. because 17 times during the 90's, the previous gutless administration had no willingness to enforce UN mandates, end the cease-fire Saddam had violated (17 times), and depose him.
#2. Because the Hussein regime was a supporter of terrorism and terror groups, including Al-Queda, Islamic Jihad, Hammas, and many others in the region.

[Blown 472]

We are in Iraq for 2 reasons.
#1. because 17 times during the 90's, the previous gutless administration had no willingness to enforce UN mandates, end the cease-fire Saddam had violated (17 times), and depose him.
#2. Because the Hussein regime was a supporter of terrorism and terror groups, including Al-Queda, Islamic Jihad, Hammas, and many others in the region.
#3 and the saudi's are not supporting it with their state run skools?? double standard there, and I would not expect you to have an answer for it as the bushies don't either other then money.

[Seadog]

And our schools are not being taken over by political correctness and elitist left winger, or rabid right wing organizations? The extreme fringes of society know that the only way they can get their indoctrination to stick is to start young. We have a lot to correct in our own society and the extremists are polarizing more and more people.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

#3 and the saudi's are not supporting it with their state run skools?? double standard there, and I would not expect you to have an answer for it as the bushies don't either other then money.
What's your answer Blown, and lets try not to make it tooo fanciful in THIS thread. The other thread is for fantasy. :D

[Blown 472]

What's your answer Blown, and lets try not to make it tooo fanciful in THIS thread. The other thread is for fantasy. :D
Well if we attack iraq on the grounds of things that were proven wrong and had info to support that prior, why not bomb the **** out of the saudis then?

[Freak]

I don't understand that one myself either. Am I supposed to believe that foreign countries buy oil in US Dollars?
Sooooo England uses the Pound Sterling for everything they do abroad EXCEPT to buy oil?
France or germany use the Euro to import things EXCEPT they use the US$ to buy oil?
Japan uses the US$ instead of the Japanese Yen to buy oil?
What does Cominust (mainland) China use if not THEIR OWN NATIONAL currency, ours?!?!?!!?
My BS flag is at the masthead again.................... :cool:
Actually I do and it's big so that's why this post has to be long. My father is an economist so this stuff has been rammed down my throat since the beginning of my time. Oh and what fun it was :yuk: but I did learn things that most never do. Which is an interesting fact since money is so important to people you would think they might be interested in it's background. I think it should be taught in school but....
Short history of money relevent to this discussion. (Leaving out the gold part)
Most cut from previous posts of mine.
In July of 1944, a small country inn in the State of New Hampshire known as Bretton Woods was selected as the site for a series of meetings designed to lay out the economic blueprints for the post-war recovery. Among those attending were U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau Jr. (CFR) (son of a founding CFR member), representatives of the United States, Great Britain, Russia, and forty-one other nations.
From July 1 to July 22, they created an accord, which established the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the World Bank, and later (1947) resulted in the General Agreements on Tariffs and Trade (GATT)—most of the instruments they would need to implement world government.
This was when the US dollar became the medium of exchange. When OPEC was formed, it was agreed that all oil purchases were to be made in dollars, i.e., the petrol dollar. This is what causes the countries to hold vast amounts of US dollars and US treasury notes, not a psychological value. Capisce?
So it’s not what currency the price of oil is quoted in, but what currency you must pay for it in. With the fluctuations of currency, if you converted your yen to dollars every time you bought oil you would be gambling. You would be devaluing your currency against the market. The US dollar is not called the petrol dollar for nothing. Countries banks therefore hold large US dollar reserves to buy oil. They don't just stack them in the vaults; they purchase US security assets THAT FUNDS our debt.
The US govt is in debt to the tune of $7.3 trillion dollars, borrowed at interest from mostly foreign central banks, who, while accumulating petro dollars for oil purchases by targeting the US for export sales, have in turn used those dollars to buy US securities to fund that debt. If there was a switch to the say euro for investment, the US could not fund its debt and the world economy would collapse. If all the accumulated dollars and US securities suddenly hit the market, one, the US couldn't pay, two, the dollar would fall off a cliff, three, who would buy the securities?
Thus, in order to keep the house of cards up, most everyone agrees to keep the US dollar as the currency of account for stability.
Other oil producing countries can sell in other currencies(N. Korea sells in euros now, but because OPEC sets the price for oil, it must be set in the currency of account(the dollar) which all currencies are pegged for their respective valuation in order for the price to be stable. Thus, all OPEC sales must be in dollars. All parties agreed to this.
All currency values are pegged to the dollar for stability. And no two currencies are equal. OPEC sells oil for only dollars by universal agreement.
UNIVERSAL AGREEMENT - that's all. See why any attempt to sell oil in another currency must be stopped by the U.S. Iran is trying to sell oil in the bourse in 06. http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=33661&NewsKind=Current%20Affairs WE CANT LET THAT HAPPEN.
For centuries there has been big money to be made by international bankers in the financing of governments and kings. Such operators, however, are faced with certain thorny problems. We know that smaller banking operations protect themselves by taking collateral, but what kind of collateral can you get from a government or a king? The collateral the US uses today is an IOU (US securities), backed by the wealth of our nation and our economy. But when these promissory notes become due, how do we pay them? Tax dollars? Guess again. We sell our creditors more IOUs; use that money to pay the first IOU with interest, thus compounding our debt. Every year, we refinance our "house” with the foreign bankers. We now owe $7.3 trillion for "our house."
Understand, that every single dollar created in the US in circulation is debt money backed by nothing but our promise to pay. If we all paid our debts there would be no money in circulation. For example, when you take out a $100,000 loan to buy a house, the money to repay the interest on the loan is not created, only the principal, which in turn, is based only on a 10% reserve requirement. The $90,000 is created out of thin air and only becomes a ledger entry that they reduce each time you make a payment.
Most of those loans are made by foreign banks holding US security assets.
80% of the world's savings is tied up in the US debt. We borrowed your life savings to fund our debt. If we collapse, you don't get your money back. We'd be broke. Can't pay you back. We done spent it already. Empty pockets. No cash, Nada, Zip!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Thx Freak, I have never done any deep studies of economics. I'm quite sure that was a fun topic of conversation over the nightly dinner table, for years. :D

[Freak]

Thx Freak, I have never done any deep studies of economics. I'm quite sure that was a fun topic of conversation over the nightly dinner table, for years. :D
Oh yeah I just LOVED it as a teen. :yuk:

[Forkin' Crazy]

Haha, that's funny! I hear it from my brother who has his masters in econ. :hammer2: I usually try to change the subject to boats though... lol! :idea:
Sounds like pops is a smart fellow! :)

[kahanamoko]

May not agree with the ACLU on many issues, but one is reminded of the words of another famous American who said:
"Anybody who would trade a little freedom for a little security will lose both and deserve neither" - Thomas Jefferson
Perhaps the fact that the ACLU is at least acting as a check on rampant right wing stupidity (perhaps by asserting radical left wing stupidity) is not such a bad thing. Unlike alot of knee jerk right wing nutjobs, I somehow believe in this country enought to believe that amidst all of the various positions and political agendas, the system we have is still the best and will ultimately result in an outcome to this and other issues that is debated, sensible and in our best interest. If not, it will adjust to the problems that result and will then end up with an outcome that is debated, sensible and in our best interest. Or perhaps we should simply let W and the right wing dictate what rights and freedoms we are allowed to have. Something most right wingers would probably support.

[HM]

May not agree with the ACLU on many issues, but one is reminded of the words of another famous American who said:
"Anybody who would trade a little freedom for a little security will lose both and deserve neither" - Thomas Jefferson
Perhaps the fact that the ACLU is at least acting as a check on rampant right wing stupidity (perhaps by asserting radical left wing stupidity) is not such a bad thing. Unlike alot of knee jerk right wing nutjobs, I somehow believe in this country enought to believe that amidst all of the various positions and political agendas, the system we have is still the best and will ultimately result in an outcome to this and other issues that is debated, sensible and in our best interest. If not, it will adjust to the problems that result and will then end up with an outcome that is debated, sensible and in our best interest. Or perhaps we should simply let W and the right wing dictate what rights and freedoms we are allowed to have. Something most right wingers would probably support.
LOL...your posts crack me up!!! Been a while since you posted...better watch out, there are some new guys that will give you the intellectual smack down of your life, with half their brain tied behind their back. :hammerhea

[kahanamoko]

Interesting. And yet, no disagreement. Is this a sign that this is now a kinder and gentler site? A thousand points of light and all. You know.

[Steve 1]

Nothing here let's move on!