Steel 467

[steelcomp]

Here's an updated thread on the 467 project. Spent the weekend finishing the heads..final CC, and then equalize chambers. All within .3 cc's. Also got one of the 6464 1050 Dominators I got off ebay finished. They had sat for 20+ yrs. Upgrades included "soft" progressive linkage, a leaner intermediate circuit, and screw in air bleeds, not to mention a good cleaning.
All the mock up is complete on the motor, all clearances checked, and only a few corrections left to make. One is to index the guide plates. Here's a pic to show what I'm talking about.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729rocker_align.jpg
Whoa...that's a big pic! Notice how the roller tip on the int. rocker (to the right) isn't centered over the valve tip. Not good, especially with 600# of open spring pressure. The guide plate needs to be cut and relocated, then welded back together.
Here's some before and after pics of the carb. (there's two of them)
Before:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729old6464-2.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729old6464.jpg
After:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729new6464.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729new6464-2.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729new6464-3.jpg

[steelcomp]

Here's the final cc on the heads.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/503/1729finalcc.jpg
and everything needed to put them together.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729newparts.jpg
Still have to crush the springs and check the pressures, then it's time for final assemble.

[GofastRacer]

Looking good!.. :cool: :cool:

[Infomaniac]

:) :) :) :) :)

[shagnasty]

Looks like fun CAN I PLAY with your heads? :cry: Don't leave me sitt'in still man.Who is this engine for? :confused

[steelcomp]

Looks like fun CAN I PLAY with your heads? :cry: Don't leave me sitt'in still man.Who is this engine for? :confused
This is just one of those home garage built motors for my lil' jet boat. You can play only if you play nice. :cool:

[steelcomp]

Finally, heads are done.
Final assembly, checking installed height.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729caninstht.jpg
And here's the final product.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729finalassy.jpg
Canfield 310 heads.
Manley severe duty valves.. 2.25 / 1.88
Isky Gold Stripe springs installed at 2.00" (255#+/-)
Apollo Trick Ti 10* retainers
Comp Cams 10* locks and spring cups
VTO polymer seals.
Heads were assembled using Torco MPZ assembly lube.
Yes, I write on my cabinets. :notam:

[cstraub]

Looks good Scott. The welding of the guideplates suck but it is a necessary. Looking forward to seeing some numbers.
Chris

[Zeug]

Looks good Scott. The welding of the guideplates suck but it is a necessary. Looking forward to seeing some numbers.
Chris
Not knowing ;much about guide plates, I'm curious to see what exactly you do to move the rocker over and center it on the valve. Got any pics of the finished guide plates?
I'm enjoying following the build up. Thanks for taking the time to share.

[sdpm]

Hey Steel, have you used the econo Jesel shaft rockers? I have been using them alot and have had very good luck with them. Alot less work and alot easier for adjusting. By the time you use good studs,rockers,stud girddle,tall valve covers, etc., you are almost into a set of these! Just a thought. Neil
PS-heads look great. Looks like you do very clean work. Don't know if it is right, but it sure looks good!! :rollside: Just kiddin. Great job..

[PC Rat]

Not knowing ;much about guide plates, I'm curious to see what exactly you do to move the rocker over and center it on the valve. Got any pics of the finished guide plates?
I'm enjoying following the build up. Thanks for taking the time to share.
On my engine, I just cut the guide plate into two halves. Install the one half of the guide plate and put in the rocker stud, but do not tighten it. Now you can rotate the half guide plate - it pivots around the rocker stud. Put in a pushrod and rocker, now slightly rotate the guide plate and the pushrod will move sideways. The pushrod moving sideways will cause the rocker to rotate - just rotate until the rocker is centered on the valve stem.
BTW, I just left mine unwelded and smeared some Locktite on the guide plate. I haven't had any problems, but I will consider welding them on this new engine I'm putting together.
Brian

[steelcomp]

Not knowing ;much about guide plates, I'm curious to see what exactly you do to move the rocker over and center it on the valve. Got any pics of the finished guide plates?
I'm enjoying following the build up. Thanks for taking the time to share.
Zeug,
What I do is move the guide plate laterally...side to side, to center the rocker over the valve tip. I'm shortening the distance between the two pushrod slots by cutting out a section. Actually, the blade width of the cut is usually enough. The stud holes in the guide plates are oversized allowing for some adjustment. This is usually enough for the amount of correction I need, but sometimes the hole has to be moved a little as well. Once I know how much to move it, I can bolt the guide plate to another mock-up head and weld them back together. As you can see in the above photo, one rocker is good, the other is not, so just moving the whole guide plate isn't going to solve the problem.
Here's all I can find for now...if you look close, you can see the welded guide plates.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/504/1729motor_1.jpg

[steelcomp]

Hey Steel, have you used the econo Jesel shaft rockers? I have been using them alot and have had very good luck with them. Alot less work and alot easier for adjusting. By the time you use good studs,rockers,stud girddle,tall valve covers, etc., you are almost into a set of these! Just a thought. Neil
PS-heads look great. Looks like you do very clean work. Don't know if it is right, but it sure looks good!! :rollside: Just kiddin. Great job..
Hey Neil,
I've looked at the Jesel and other "sportsman" shaft rockers, and in my honest opinion, if I'm going to go to shaft rockers, I want the advantage of the one piece stand. Granted, they are a little easier to adjust, but to me, going to shaft rockers means I'm looking for that extra rigidity, and I just don't see the advantage of individual mounted shafts vs. a good stud/girdle combination. I know all too well how much time it takes to shim a shaft set- up to get good push rod length, so the stud set up is a lot easier in that sense. The fact that they bolt down is good, and I know the quality is there, just not sure of the advantage.
Thanks for the compliments. Don't know if its right either, but hey, it looks good!! :D

[steelcomp]

On my engine, I just cut the guide plate into two halves. Install the one half of the guide plate and put in the rocker stud, but do not tighten it. Now you can rotate the half guide plate - it pivots around the rocker stud. Put in a pushrod and rocker, now slightly rotate the guide plate and the pushrod will move sideways. The pushrod moving sideways will cause the rocker to rotate - just rotate until the rocker is centered on the valve stem.
BTW, I just left mine unwelded and smeared some Locktite on the guide plate. I haven't had any problems, but I will consider welding them on this new engine I'm putting together.
Brian
Hey B,
I know that method works. Probably nothing wrong with it...just learned this way and it's what I'm used to. I never liked the idea of leaving the guide plate in two pieces, but that's just the way I am! :hammerhea :D That won't work if you're going to weld them back together. The two pieces have to line up. Your method also changes the angle of the pushrod, although not enough to make a difference. :cool:

[Zeug]

Zeug,
What I do is move the guide plate laterally...side to side, to center the rocker over the valve tip. I'm shortening the distance between the two pushrod slots by cutting out a section. Actually, the blade width of the cut is usually enough. The stud holes in the guide plates are oversized allowing for some adjustment. This is usually enough for the amount of correction I need, but sometimes the hole has to be moved a little as well. Once I know how much to move it, I can bolt the guide plate to another mock-up head and weld them back together. As you can see in the above photo, one rocker is good, the other is not, so just moving the whole guide plate isn't going to solve the problem.
Here's all I can find for now...if you look close, you can see the welded guide plates.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/504/1729motor_1.jpg
Thanks for the pic, i think i am understanding the idea. For some dumb reason i figured you had to move the stud/rocker connection to get the rocker centered on the valve. But i think you are moving the pushrod guide plate which rotates the rocker on the stud a bit and if the oval holes in the plates aren't enough, you are cutting and rewelding them.
Is that correct?

[steelcomp]

Thanks for the pic, i think i am understanding the idea. For some dumb reason i figured you had to move the stud/rocker connection to get the rocker centered on the valve. But i think you are moving the pushrod guide plate which rotates the rocker on the stud a bit and if the oval holes in the plates aren't enough, you are cutting and rewelding them.
Is that correct?
You got it! :D
Steel, So far I've found that if I just use a die grinder and make a thin slit in the middle of the guide plate, spread with a screwdriver until the proper alignment is achieved, then tag it with the welder it works just fine. Wish someone would come up with an adjustable set like I've seen for the smallblocks.
Good idea Rio. I think I'll try it. :cool:

[steelcomp]

here's an update. I only get time on the weekrnds to work on this thing, so it's taking forever, but here's the progress so far.
Rods and pistons cleaned and ready for assembly.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729assembly1.jpg
These Cosworth pistons use the round wire locks which IMO, are superior to dual spiro-locks, and a whole lot easier to use. No bloody finger tips here.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729assembly2.jpg
Pistons and rod assemblies ready for rings to be installed, then ready for final assembly into block.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729assembly4.jpg

[steelcomp]

Here's the block, cleaned and ready for assembly.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729block1.jpg
Crank installed, caps torq'd to 90# as per ARP, using their moly.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729crank_set.jpg
Checking crank end play. Right at .006-.007. Sorry about the crappy pic. Sometimes digital cameras seem to have a mind of their own. Floor sure is in focus!!
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729crank_end_play.jpg
Here's the Bullet grind as per Chris Straub of Steffs/ B&B Products. Very nice machine work.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729bullet.jpg
.

[steelcomp]

Cam installed, checking end play. This was a three hour deal, here. The Rollmaster timing set sets out from the block a little further than the Comp set I was using. Both had a Torrington thrust bearing, but the the Rollmaster assy is thicker, pushing the timing set, along with the front of the cam, further away from the front of the block by about .020", which moved the cam thrust bearing closer to the timing cover. I had to remove a .062 shim from the thrust bearing, which was already a custom deal due to the cast front cover. Now I had about .042 play, and wanted .005 or so. I found a .050 thick stainless washer that was the right dimension, (OD and ID) and had to hand grind it down to a .037 shim, a few thou at a time. Good times. :hammer2:
Checking cam thrust. Another good picture.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729cam_thrust.jpg
Here's the Rollmaster set up after all is said and done. BTW...the upper gear dosen't line up with the lower gear, either, due to the thicker bearing. It's not enough to bother me to the point of needing to fix it, but I just wonder how Rollmaster, or whoever mfg'd this setup could miss this. This is all standard stuff. I thought about shimming the crank gear forward, but decided I wanted to get this deal together, and not wait on shims. And yes, the cam thrust bearing does stick out past the allen bolts...although not by much! :D
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729cam_in.jpg

[steelcomp]

So here's the bottom end assembled. Mains are Fed Mogul 3/4 groove race series set at .0032-.0035, torq'd to 90# as per ARP (with ARP moly). Rod brgs are Clevite P series set at .0022-.0025. Rods are Eagles, standard 6.135 length, and are torq'd to 62# as per Eagle. I checked stretch after torque and all remained in the .0059-.0062 range. Pistons are Cosworth forged, RR58 alloy, and are the same alloy as used in their Indy pistons, and they're .005 out of the hole. Rings are Total Seal gapless second, gapped at .002 over recommended in an effort to compensate for cooler cyl temps due to marine use. I also used Total Seal's "quick seat" on the cyls before final assy. That's some weird stuff, but supposed to be the trick deal.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729bottom_end.jpg
Little details make big differences.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729details.jpg
Here's the short block, waiting for an oil pan from Dan Olson. You can see the green tint in the cyls that the "quick seat" leaves.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1729short_block1.jpg

[Blown Spectra]

Great pictures, Nice work........ keep em coming.
eric :D

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Damn scott, Youve been busy! Lookin real nice;) I like all the detail that youve posted. It gives the newbies a lesson on how to build an engine;) On that main cap, mine is done the same way. Did you blueprint the oil pump as well? Keep us posted. You should put these pics in the "how to" section!
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729details.jpg

[FILUCKY]

Just go's to show that you don't have to be filthy rich to build a big HP, reliable motor. Hard work and attention to detail go along way. Looks great Steelcomp.

[steelcomp]

Thanks for the comp's guys. I hope there's something useful for you guys out of all this.
396, yeah, I do the oil pump as well, just haven't gotten to it yet...still waiting on a pan.
Here's the heads going on, with the Cometic gaskets. Final CR is 12.44:1. I was concerned about the lack of water passage holes in the ends of the gaskets, since I'm used to the Felpro 1017's but I just decided that Cometic must know what they're doing, and I haven't heard of anyone complaining about this. Head final torq'd to 65# as per ARP with ARP moly. I had fun with this as well, as all of my block holes are Helicoiled, and of course, there were a couple that just insisted on coming loose, and pushing out into the block. Then you gotta get the stud back out, push the Helicoil all the way through, fish it out of the block, (and not with a magnet, since they're stainless), then run the helicoil tap back through the hole to clean it out, and install another helicoil with red Locktite.. All on a clean motor with open cyl's. Pain in the arse. Next time I have to repair a threaded hole, it'll be with inserts. Helicoiols suck.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1729cometic.jpg
...and here's the final long block, with the CF covers. Still waiting on tunnnel ram. Going to do final valve train install this weekend.
That's it for now.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1729long_block2.jpg

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I like it scott! Way to go bud;) That motor is similar to mine;) The only difference is the heads. I am running closed chambered irons with 12.5-1 comp. Let me know your numbers in the boat when your done;)

[steelcomp]

Thanks Michael...I'll do that. :D

[DeputyDawg]

Great job! Nice pics and documentation. Okay, I guess I am going to have to break down and buy a digital camera and get someone to show me how to post pics so I can do a thread like this in a month or so.
Nice attention to detail steelcomp, that's where it counts! Oh yeah, always remember that Helicoils are not our friends :crossx: :crossx:

[mrgoslow]

just wondering about the progress?

[cstraub]

lookin' good.
Chris

[steelcomp]

just wondering about the progress?
I'm getting there...just waiting on the last few parts. I'll have it ready to go to the dyno by this weekend. Hopefully dyno next week, then get it in the boat and ready for Ming before the year's out. I'll post more pics this weekend.
Thanks Chris.
And special thanks to Dave at DNE. :coffeycup

[cstraub]

Well I either be a Hero or a Zero in this post from Scott when I get back from getting married in the Caribbean, I'm gone from the 15th to the 25th. Be easy on me Scott if it doesn't make any power :wink:

[Liberator TJ1984]

Chris, keep the info. I sent you , had to buy more parts for motor this last paycheck :(
Next payday funds will go your way for new cam we talked about :D
Thanks,
Gopher
Oh yea....Congratulations on Marrige ...Best of Luck to you Both :coffeycup

[steelcomp]

Well I either be a Hero or a Zero in this post from Scott when I get back from getting married in the Caribbean, I'm gone from the 15th to the 25th. Be easy on me Scott if it doesn't make any power :wink:
It looks like I may have a dyno spot on the 15th. Maybe you should just stay in the Carribean?? :D
I'm not worried. My bet is you'll have some good news to come home to. I only hope that I've held up my end of the deal on the build-up. This is the time I always get nervous. Guess we're both a little nervous, eh, Chris?? You put your best foot forward on the altar, mine on the dyno. :squiggle:
In all sincerity...congratulations, good luck, and best wishes on your honeymoon. Thanks again for all the help.

[cstraub]

Thanks guys. Scott after seeing the build pictures I'm not worried, you got a good bullet that will make good power.
Gopher,
Just let me know when you are ready.
Chris

[steelcomp]

FINALLY!! Got the intake...hot off the porting room floor. Serious port mismatch from left to right. I'm wondering if anyone else running Canfields has the same prob???
This is how you move an intake port without welding. Good ol' AB stick.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake4.jpg
This is after porting. It's kinda like Bondo...you put on way more than you need, then grind most of it off. The pic dosen't look very good, but it's blended very smooth, and retains the contour of the port.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake6.jpg
Here's the ports that didn't need epoxy.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake2.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake3.jpg
Here's the plenum...blending all these different contours is the most difficult part. These things are plain ugly inside from the factory. I think I have about 5 hours in the plenum alone.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake5.jpg
And here's the finished product. Ready for a good cleaning, and bolting on. I think I have about 13 hours in this intake project.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake1.jpg

[FLYTE RISK]

FINALLY!! Got the intake...hot off the porting room floor. Serious port mismatch from left to right. I'm wondering if anyone else running Canfields has the same prob???
This is how you move an intake port without welding. Good ol' AB stick.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake4.jpg
This is after porting. It's kinda like Bondo...you put on way more than you need, then grind most of it off. The pic dosen't look very good, but it's blended very smooth, and retains the contour of the port.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake6.jpg
Here's the ports that didn't need epoxy.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake2.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake3.jpg
Here's the plenum...blending all these different contours is the most difficult part. These things are plain ugly inside from the factory. I think I have about 5 hours in the plenum alone.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake5.jpg
And here's the finished product. Ready for a good cleaning, and bolting on. I think I have about 13 hours in this intake project.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729intake1.jpg
Just curious why did you not go with a Dart? Not that out of the box they are better but cleaned up they FLOW!! :D

[steelcomp]

Just curious why did you not go with a Dart? Not that out of the box they are better but cleaned up they FLOW!! :D
If I was running this motor in a v-drive where I could turn it 7500, then I would definately go with the Dart...in fact, I have one sitting here in the garage. I decided that it was too big: the plenum would need cutting down, and the runners too long for their size. This motor is considered "small" and wiill never see anything above, say, 6800. The Dart is made more for bigger motors turning more rpm. The two Dom's are probably a mistake on this mtor as well, but they're what I have, and besides, they look cool!! I'll know more when I get on the dyno next Wed. :idea:

[DeputyDawg]

It's looking good steel. Don't worry, the Doms will work fine.

[mrgoslow]

FINALLY!! Got the intake...hot off the porting room floor. Serious port mismatch from left to right. I'm wondering if anyone else running Canfields has the same prob???
This is how you move an intake port without welding. Good ol' AB stick.
i havent gotten this far but you got me wondering. those look way off!

[steelcomp]

FINALLY!! Got the intake...hot off the porting room floor. Serious port mismatch from left to right. I'm wondering if anyone else running Canfields has the same prob???
This is how you move an intake port without welding. Good ol' AB stick.
i havent gotten this far but you got me wondering. those look way off!
Don't let the amount of plastic I put in the port fool you...but I can say there is definately a problem with the Canfields I have. They've got something shifted in their machining, and I'm not exactly sure what. When you have one side lined up, the bolt holes and ports are in the right place, but the other side is shifted about .080". You can slide the intake back and forth to line up the bolt holes and ports on either side, but only one side will line up, not both. I tried 5 different intakes all with the same results. When I talked to John at Canfield, his immediate response was that it was someone elses fault, and no way it could be his product. He promised me he'd send me the layout dimensions for the heads, but funny...I never got those. :rolleyes:

[steelcomp]

Well, fast forward...it's done and I'm off to the dyno tomorrow morning.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729done1.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729done2.jpg

[DeputyDawg]

Good luck man. I bet it runs great! Keep us posted.

[jdf]

so great work there steel.

[MikeF]

My best guess............822hp. Have fun today! :D :clover:

[shaun]

What is that tube that runs from what looks to be a pump over to the valve cover for?

[WILDERTHANU]

Man this thread is making me happy. I really would like to know what you got out of it. I just built myself a new bullet this summer, a lot like the one you are building. Fun as shit just $$$$, but its always fun. I cant wait to blow it up and build another. Well not really....

[DeputyDawg]

Shaun posted--What is that tube that runs from what looks to be a pump over to the valve cover for?
The tube goes from the vacuum pump to the valve cover. It is a vacuum pump set up.

[Taylorman]

How did you fix the problem with the intake holes lining up?
What hp are you hoping for?

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Looks good scott;) I will take a stab at the hp on it and say 790hp!!! Good luck scott;)

[MandDPerformance]

Looks good scott;) I will take a stab at the hp on it and say 790hp!!! Good luck scott;)
467, 12.4:1, Two big carbs., Don't know cam specs. for obvious reasons, Vaccuum Pump, No gas ports, Don't know head flow, I'll say 745 HP. Sure looks good.

[MandDPerformance]

Steel;
If you don't mind me asking and maybe you've already answered this; What size are your heads and what are the flow numbers. Just curious, I'm kinda vague when it comes to Canfields.

[MandDPerformance]

The tube goes from the vacuum pump to the valve cover. It is a vacuum pump set up.
MandD has an Aerospace Components vaccuum pump setup for sale. Complete with Mandrel, Breather Tank, Check Valve, Pump with Mount and Hoses for $450.00. This thing is like new. PM Me if your interested.

[MikeF]

I'll say 745 HP. Sure looks good.
Probley at 6600.....Not sure how far they'll wind it though?! :D
impatiently awaiting news on how it went. :boxed:

[WILDERTHANU]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729assembly4.jpg
You did some nice work with your pistons, why didnt you gas port though? Easy extra sealing trick and you're running a vac.pump making it all the better when running a low tension ring.

[Cs19]

are they low tension rings?

[steelcomp]

Back from dyno...everything went better than I was hoping for. I'll post up the pulls and pics later, but this little motor made 821 hp at 7100, and I think the best Q was 679.3 at 5500. Thanks for all the good words, guys. Thanks to DNE and Team Brule, we had a great day. :D
AFA gas porting, these aren't low tension rings, and I just didn't think it would be worth it on this deal. The vac pump was an after thought.

[Liberator TJ1984]

MikeF , you should get it with your 822hp. guess :cool:
or did you have some insider info. :confused: :D

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

good job scott;) I wasnt that far off(30hp ) let us know how she runs in the boat.
396

[atxwrangler]

O.K., DUMMY HERE,DOES THE VACUUM PUMP HELP HP IN ANY WAY,OR IS JUST AN ALTERNATIVE TO A HEADER EVAC SYSTEM?THANX FOR THE EXPLANATION IN ADVANCE! :rollside:

[DeputyDawg]

You will usually see at least a small horsepower gain when running a vacuum pump even if you aren't running low tension rings, however, you will see greater gains if you are using low tension rings. It is not uncommon to see 25-35hp gains on the dyno. Other good things about running a vacuum pump are decreased intake charge contamination and blow by as well as reduced oil leaks and a slight decrease in the risk of detonation. You do have to be careful with vacuum pumps though because the "if some is good more is better " rule does not apply here. You can run too much vacuum and that can cause problems. Most people run a relief valve that allows for a maximum of somewhere between 15-20" vacuum.

[DeputyDawg]

Good job steel. The hard work paid off as I'm sure you knew it would. What impeller are you going to be running and where do you want to turn the motor rpm wise in the boat?

[MikeF]

MikeF , you should get it with your 822hp. guess :cool:
or did you have some insider info. :confused: :D
Pretty much, just a GOOD guess. :cool:
I've never spoken to Scott. Seen some of the engines that have gone though the "polygraph room" and figured it was a decent # for that engine.
Now I'm even more interested in how it works in the boat! (like I wasn't already :shift: )
Scott, What headers did you use on the dyno?........Specs?! That # was corrected hp yes?
:mix:

[shaun]

You will usually see at least a small horsepower gain when running a vacuum pump even if you aren't running low tension rings, however, you will see greater gains if you are using low tension rings. It is not uncommon to see 25-35hp gains on the dyno. Other good things about running a vacuum pump are decreased intake charge contamination and blow by as well as reduced oil leaks and a slight decrease in the risk of detonation. You do have to be careful with vacuum pumps though because the "if some is good more is better " rule does not apply here. You can run too much vacuum and that can cause problems. Most people run a relief valve that allows for a maximum of somewhere between 15-20" vacuum.
So how do you know when you need one? is their a general rule of thumb here?
Steal, nice numbers, great looking motor! Chris Straub is sending me my cam and lifters when he gets back!

[Norseman]

Nice Job!!!!
That should be a lot of fun when you get it back into the boat!!! ;)

[steelcomp]

Good job steel. The hard work paid off as I'm sure you knew it would. What impeller are you going to be running and where do you want to turn the motor rpm wise in the boat?
Thanks DD. I'm going to start with a BC that MPD detailed. Hopefully get into the 6500 range, but after looking at some of the data that Dave had, it might be lower than that. We'll just have to see. I need to get an inducer to complete the combination.

[steelcomp]

So how do you know when you need one? is their a general rule of thumb here?
Steal, nice numbers, great looking motor! Chris Straub is sending me my cam and lifters when he gets back!
Thanks Shaun. AFA kowing when you "need" one...well, I just let my budget dictate things like that. I didn't "need" this motor at all, but I wanted more power. When there's power to be had, I guess you just have to decide what you're willing to spend to get it. Even though this motor isn't taking full advantage of the vac pump, the investment has been made, and I'll have it if I decide to upgrade to things like lighter rings, more compression, stc. Even now, though, I'm sure it's worth some power. There's probably 50 hp in this motor of "little things" that I chose not to overlook. A few hp here, a few hp there, dosen't sound like much at the time, but it adds up. :D

[Cs19]

Youll prolly turn that BC about 6000, which will be perfect. A "c" on the river just doesnt seem practical to me.

[Carnivalride]

Back from dyno...everything went better than I was hoping for. I'll post up the pulls and pics later, but this little motor made 821 hp at 7100, and I think the best Q was 679.3 at 5500. Thanks for all the good words, guys. Thanks to DNE and Team Brule, we had a great day. :D
AFA gas porting, these aren't low tension rings, and I just didn't think it would be worth it on this deal. The vac pump was an after thought.
Sounds just about perfect for my v-drive. :D :D :D
Congradulations it sounds like a real good bullet. :idea: :idea:

[steelcomp]

Sounds just about perfect for my v-drive. :D :D :D
Congradulations it sounds like a real good bullet. :idea: :idea:
Big gears, big prop. :D

[FILUCKY]

(2) 1050's-Race Fuel-B/C Impeller=$$$$$$ :D
But its all worth it when ya stab that throttle! :D :D :D

[BIGCHRIS]

SC,that is some great looking work :D What style boat are u going to put it in,also what kind of fuel are u going to run in it pump race or a mix :D

[steelcomp]

SC,that is some great looking work :D What style boat are u going to put it in,also what kind of fuel are u going to run in it pump race or a mix :D
Thanks BigChris...the motor's going in my Bahner tunnel hull, and I'll be running Trick 106 race gas. :p

[BIGCHRIS]

Steelcomp,what would u say is the safest comp ratio u could run on pump fuel,I am wanting to do another motor over the winter and really step it up for my v drive just looking for different routes to go .I am not above running race fuel if i have to to some decent power :)

[steelcomp]

Steelcomp,what would u say is the safest comp ratio u could run on pump fuel,I am wanting to do another motor over the winter and really step it up for my v drive just looking for different routes to go .I am not above running race fuel if i have to to some decent power :)
Mostly depends on the chamber and cam. Aluminum will be way more forgiving, and having a good cam will be mandatory. If you have everything optimized, you could probably get away with 10.5-10.7. If this is something you're going to build on your own, and basically try and bolt off-the-shelf parts together, I'd keep it under 10:1. There's some VERY strong pump gas motors out there, and if I were to do it over again, I'd be there. 12.5:1 is really a tease when it comes to compression. It's not enough to really take advantage of having high compression and good race gas, but it pretty much eliminates any possibility of runnig pump gas. The guy to talk to would be Dave at DNE. He's got a good program for pump gas motors. I've seen some of the dyno sheets on his pump gas motors, and they're stout, to say the least.

[BIGCHRIS]

Mostly depends on the chamber and cam. Aluminum will be way more forgiving, and having a good cam will be mandatory. If you have everything optimized, you could probably get away with 10.5-10.7. If this is something you're going to build on your own, and basically try and bolt off-the-shelf parts together, I'd keep it under 10:1. There's some VERY strong pump gas motors out there, and if I were to do it over again, I'd be there. 12.5:1 is really a tease when it comes to compression. It's not enough to really take advantage of having high compression and good race gas, but it pretty much eliminates any possibility of runnig pump gas. The guy to talk to would be Dave at DNE. He's got a good program for pump gas motors. I've seen some of the dyno sheets on his pump gas motors, and they're stout, to say the least.
Comp thanx,I have always done my own work as far as assembly and coming up with decent combos but not in your class :D I would like to get a good proven combo that would work well in my v drive

[BrendellaJet]

my DNE motor will be over 11:1 and will run on 91. Ill be mixing, but Ill know in a pinch 91 will do.

[steelcomp]

bump