View Full Version : NJBA rules meeting
BUSBY
08-09-2005, 04:40 PM
It's that time again! Only another month and then we will be hashing it out one more time. The Annual NJBA Rules meeting will be held September 6th, 2005. During tomorrow night's meeting I am going to request that we move it to the following weekend due to Labor Day, I will keep you posted on the date and if it changes.
This past year there were a lot of great ideas brought to the boards attention. We wlecome all requests and recommendations for rule changes and additions. Of course frivolous suggestions will not be accepted (ex.: free beer to all participants, for every three races entred - the fourth is free, all racers will be required to take tubing lesson with Nelson109 and CS19, etc., etc., etc.).
All requests for rule changes and/or suggestions must be submitted in writing and can be sent to Roger Roadstrom at:
Roger Roadstrom - NJBA President
5162 Antietam
Los Alamitos, CA 90720
If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask.
Brian
UBFJ #454
08-09-2005, 05:32 PM
Brian -
Would you be so kind as to 'Suggest' a Rule Change for the Brackets ..... One that allows Nitrous?
As the Rule Book currently 'States' Any Fuel Type can be used in the Brackets Except Nitrous Oxide. This means that I am allowed to run a Blown Nitro Jet in the Brackets, but, can't run a Nitrous Injected UBFJ ... Please Explain to me the 'Logic' in that given that Nitro Methane has Much More 'Punch' than N2O added to C-16.
Jak
BUSBY
08-09-2005, 06:16 PM
Valid point ... however, we move into issues like timers, sandbagging, etc.
I will bring it up ... the proper submittal would be in writing though. I will write a proposal for you if you would like, however, not being a nitrous guru, I might not have the proper input that you might. You might make a better case than I.
Let me know if you would like me to write it and submit it to Roger.
Brian
Willis
08-09-2005, 06:18 PM
Jak,
Is this your request for the board to visit the issue?
All equipment used in "Category events" should be allowed in "Brackets"?
Willis
BUSBY
08-09-2005, 07:46 PM
I think that he is asking about eliminating the Fuel requirements in regards to bracket racing. On page 21, under ET Brackets, it states that any fuel may be used. It goes on to state that no boat running Nitrous Oxide is not allowed, the bottle has to be taken out of the boat, solenoids capped, hoses removed & they have to declare that Nitrous is being used at registration.
I remember us speaking about this at one of the meetings (I think it was last October ... I reviewed my notes and all I had underlined was "no nitrous allowed") but I don't remember what the supporting facts were. I know Jim Guthrie will remember ... as he does with 99% of everything. I beleive it was when we were voting on the sandbagging issue.
And I have to retract my offer for writnig Jak's letter (sorry Jak :(). According to our by-laws, (verified w/ Roger) Jak would have to write a formal letter to the board. It is necessary to have his current membership verified and for it to be presented at the meeting to be voted on.
That is what I think he's going after ... not allowing all equipment being allowed on categories be allowed in brackets ... that would change a lot. (MSD launch control, timers, delay boxes, pneumatic controllers, etc., etc., etc. ... things that we really don't want to talk about, because they haven't made it to the rulebook yet ... if we talk about them, we have to have a rule about them ... and do we want to go there? I surely don't)
See you tomorrow night Willis!
Brian
pneumatic controllers are illegal because you must have a direct linkage to the fuel control (carb, hat, etc.). those air servos aren't legal on boats for that reason.
n2 isn't allowed in njba brackets due to the sandbagging rule. i say propose elimination of the sandbagging rule. none of the twisty, double entendre rule proposals from last year's vote that had everyone trying to figure out what they were voting for or against, just a ballot proposal to eliminate any sentences that mention the word sandbagging, yes or no.
then, run whatever fuel you want. and brian, if you want to run you're hydro in the 10s, feel free to give it your best shot :cool:.
once that's out of the way, run whatever ya want, n2, nitro, blowers, pistons... whatever...
BUSBY
08-09-2005, 09:13 PM
shoot Bob ... how nice that would be ... 10's :wink:
then my motors would stay together!
I'm killing them trying to slow down for that stupid 160 mph rule ... I say we eliminate that tule and let me Rathke, Zeller and I run the 6.50 class! We are all blowing up our stuff by throwing fuel at them to slow them down on the big end ... not a good thing to do in a Hydro. But every time I bring it up, all of the board members (who don't drive hydro's) shut me down like there's no tomorrow. I can get just as hurt at 80 as I can at 170!
Ron Braaksma, Joe Shelfo & I are approaching a few things at the rules meeting in regards to hydro's (to include parachutes & capsules), I just figure having more input from you guys (like requesting a "straight forward" ballot vote like you are suggesting for future rules) the better. So mail them in guys! You have a month ... so there is plenty of time!
Now, I have to go figure out how to set my boat up for the 10 second class since Bob called me out! :D
See what you've done now Bob?
I agree on running NOS in the brackets. We ran in UBFJ and set the boat up to do just that. Try and run a bracket and set up the boat not running it? What do they think that you are going to use it to win at the end by tapping the button and sandbagging? That is stupid. On the bottle we ran 8.02 to 8.10. Why would we want to run anything slower and try to guess where we were? Stupid rule!!!
Hey Brian, You run a big blown alc hydro and I know that your boat can run way faster than you have been running it, so I think you are sandbagging!! :hammer2: I want to protest! Who do I talk too? :idea:
BUSBY
08-09-2005, 09:35 PM
oh Neil ... you made my night! too funny!
I've been protesting myself! I think I have been sandbaggin! There is a class (6.50-6.99) that has almost been abolished ... no one can run it due to the rules ... you know as well as I do, slowing us down drops the tail and that is when we loose control ... much more dangerous than powering through.
I've been talked to by rescue at every race because the boat is "loose" ... well that's because I'm gearing down so I don't break out. At the last race on Saturday, I took out the 48's and put the 67's back in ... smooth as a whistle! of course it ran 6.81 @ 169 ... so my run didn't count for qualifying ... but I proved a point ... much safer!
And I know (as you and I spoke about a while ago) I need a capsule for safety ... but $15k from start to finish isn't in the near future as far as the budget goes ... I say mandate parachutes w/ electric or pneumatic releases operated by a button on the wheel after 8 seconds on hydro's is a much more needed safety item than a max mph ... just my .02
And when are you showing up again ... did you ever sell yours ... with the 160 back, I thought we might see it out there again.
Well since most everyone else is trying to get a rule change to benefit themselves, I might as well throw mine in too.
I say allow NOS and timers in the bracket also, that way I might actually have a chance against some of those other guys. :D
Oh, and how about getting a new race date for November? Thats the best race of the season, it really sucks that it got cancelled. :mad:
BTW, Im not complaining. Im more than happy with the way everything is. I just wanna go back and get some more laps in. :D
Brian, I agree 100%. Sounds stupid, but running faster the boat runs smoother and straighter. Oh well rules are rules. There is no compition in comp hydro except for that damn black boat! :mad: I don't think we can catch him with out spending all of my money and some of yours! ;). I think we are going to hit the San Diego race and the finals at phoenix, maybe even with a capsule boat!!! :idea: We will see how it go's. If the class was bigger and if the payout would at least cover the entry fee I might come back. I do miss the racing and the people. Had lots of fun. If thing work out, we will run in pro mod next year. That's my goal anyway. Some good racing there and fairly safe. I think of pro mod as the pro stock of boats. I love that class. I got a awsome driver and is a good friend and I have got to put him in a capsule to keep doing this. I think you know where I'm comming from. We most likely will come up and do some test and tune with you guys, we will see.
Neil
neil and brian, there's a fellow from san diego named chris owens that runs a crusader and/or cp tunnel in ihba and uses nos. i've run him a few times, and up at red bluff, people thought i was getting on and off the gas all the way up the track. it was chris getting on and off the button. i didn't care, he was just doing what he felt he needed to do, and that's the way a lot of people are going to run with nos, no matter what kind of rules you try and put into place with timers.
the bottom line is to remove any inference to sandbagging. all it's done this year is caused at least one big fight for no real good reason. i'm not suggesting anything else be changed, because people still have to have an idea where they are to qualify :cool: but, the intent and implementation of sandbagging has always been a cause of hate and discontent, and it needs to go to allow people to run what they want, and especially before there's fewer boats to run.
brian, you're unsafe at any speed. we should probably have a 150 mph restriction on open boats :rolleyes:
BUSBY
08-10-2005, 07:38 AM
That's funny Bob ... my wife says that about me daily about driving on the freeway too!
I'm just trying to make the hydro situation safer ... taking power and/or gear away in one just plain doesn't make sense, it makes it more dangerous. Now I gould get a 871 blower instead of a 1471, get a 468 instead of a 540 and run the 8 second deal ... but that's resetting up my whole dealio ... and that might be what I have to do ... I don't want to, but like Neil says ... rules are rules.
Chris ... you better get some Nitrous together for Labor Day weekend from what I hear, not Ming! j/k :)
An the November race is a dead subject ... it ain't gonna happen. But as Bob said, there is always Phoenix! But as Mike (cyclone) said ... too much money for only one race (membership, entry fees, 6 hours of towing gas, etc.).
Jim Brock
08-10-2005, 07:48 AM
IHBA has sandbagging and there are a lot of people that like it, there is good prize money in Ihba. Njba has no sanbagging, most of these boat build a motor to compete in that bracket, they might not have enough money to build a motor to compete in a class, so the bracket is there class. most of the time they race for free, no prize money, but the get to show there skills, the racer has a choice to race for fame or to sandbag and see who's lucky enough to win the money, If we alow sandbagging we will be competeing with Ihba for entries and we will loose because of the money payout, if i were to race in the sanbagging class i will be racing for money in Ihba and see who is the luckiest. we have a good following in the brackets now, we can survive, if we loose 10-15 boats to Ihba we won't be able to survive. Thanks Jim
IHBA has sandbagging and there are a lot of people that like it, there is good prize money in Ihba. Njba has no sanbagging, most of these boat build a motor to compete in that bracket, they might not have enough money to build a motor to compete in a class, so the bracket is there class. most of the time they race for free, no prize money, but the get to show there skills, the racer has a choice to race for fame or to sandbag and see who's lucky enough to win the money, If we alow sandbagging we will be competeing with Ihba for entries and we will loose because of the money payout, if i were to race in the sanbagging class i will be racing for money in Ihba and see who is the luckiest. we have a good following in the brackets now, we can survive, if we loose 10-15 boats to Ihba we won't be able to survive. Thanks Jim
jim, if someone is too slow for a certain bracket, then they should go into a slower bracket?
there is only prize money in ihba for the winner and second place, not the whole class. the thing is, the costs are greater to enter an njba bracket event than an ihba bracket event right now. we need more boats period. i don't see us losing boats to ihba, i see more ihba boats racing with njba because the rules will be the same, and if there are more boats the cost should be reduced.
worrying about sandbagging is the last thing people should be worrying about. people should get past that little thing. that's not what wins races...
cyclone
08-10-2005, 08:26 AM
I don't realy have too much to say about rule changes but I say do anything you can to get the boat count up and keep it up.
-allow sandbagging.
-allow N20 in the brackets
-open up classes based upon speed so that anyone can run their boat even if they haven't built a motor for a specific class.
-Have a race near OC/Riverside to draw more spectators. Find a town/venue that wants the NJBA there and won't charge an arm and a leg for the club to bring money into the town. The NJBA should not have to pay to use a lake when its going to bring $$$ to the town by putting on a good show.
-Have rental safety gear on hand at every race for new guys and gals. Im sure DJ or another company would show up even if Lifeline doesnt every race.
-Sell passes down the track at 10-15 bucks a pop to anyone who just wants to drive their boat and test it provided the boat and driver pass tech. Let guys learn their boats in an inexpensive manner and the lure of real competition will eventually coax them into spending the cash for real classes.
Insert these guys into the program all day long because to keep the program moving along and interesting for spectators. Imagine how much money could be made for the club if 30 extra boats showed up at the next race and each one ran 10 passes over the weekend ($4500!!!)
-Find sponsors for each event. make it pay or at least break even to go racing for the class winners.
Keep it fun for spectators with entertainment within the event aside from the racing
BUSBY
08-10-2005, 11:29 AM
Mike ... good points ... you really need to show up at our meetings ... like I said, your marketing skills woud help out a lot ...
6:30pm tonight ... Industrial Van, 2517 Tyler Avenue, El Monte, (626) 443-9211
mapquest it and get your butt out there!
mj680
08-10-2005, 02:08 PM
With the rule change in MOD JET this year, NJBA is down to ONE boat.
Maybe another rule change like NO ALUM BLOCKS or FUEL INJECTION will
get rid of the last boat. :2purples: :hammerhea :2purples:
mj680
08-10-2005, 02:13 PM
I don't realy have too much to say about rule changes but I say do anything you can to get the boat count up and keep it up.
-allow sandbagging.
-allow N20 in the brackets
-open up classes based upon speed so that anyone can run their boat even if they haven't built a motor for a specific class.
-Have a race near OC/Riverside to draw more spectators. Find a town/venue that wants the NJBA there and won't charge an arm and a leg for the club to bring money into the town. The NJBA should not have to pay to use a lake when its going to bring $$$ to the town by putting on a good show.
-Have rental safety gear on hand at every race for new guys and gals. Im sure DJ or another company would show up even if Lifeline doesnt every race.
-Sell passes down the track at 10-15 bucks a pop to anyone who just wants to drive their boat and test it provided the boat and driver pass tech. Let guys learn their boats in an inexpensive manner and the lure of real competition will eventually coax them into spending the cash for real classes.
Insert these guys into the program all day long because to keep the program moving along and interesting for spectators. Imagine how much money could be made for the club if 30 extra boats showed up at the next race and each one ran 10 passes over the weekend ($4500!!!)
-Find sponsors for each event. make it pay or at least break even to go racing for the class winners.
Keep it fun for spectators with entertainment within the event aside from the racing
All your ideas :idea: are good. Hope they don't fall on DEAF ears. :confused:
mj680
08-10-2005, 02:18 PM
IHBA has sandbagging and there are a lot of people that like it, there is good prize money in Ihba. Njba has no sanbagging, most of these boat build a motor to compete in that bracket, they might not have enough money to build a motor to compete in a class, so the bracket is there class. most of the time they race for free, no prize money, but the get to show there skills, the racer has a choice to race for fame or to sandbag and see who's lucky enough to win the money, If we alow sandbagging we will be competeing with Ihba for entries and we will loose because of the money payout, if i were to race in the sanbagging class i will be racing for money in Ihba and see who is the luckiest. we have a good following in the brackets now, we can survive, if we loose 10-15 boats to Ihba we won't be able to survive. Thanks Jim
Sand bagging is allowed by every Club and Association except NJBA.
This rule CAN"T be inforced fairly. :D
BUSBY
08-10-2005, 02:27 PM
All your ideas :idea: are good. Hope they don't fall on DEAF ears. :confused:
Deaf ears will not be deaf if it comes in like it is supposed to, in writing ... I know that there have been a lot of phone calls made to board members ... but there is no way I can remember all of the requests asked.
Maybe that is why the by-laws were written the way that they were back in 1969 ... to insure that no ones request was over looked!
All requests must be submitted in writing ... mailed into the president ... if no one writes in, I won't feel sorry if it isn't brought to the clubs attention. There is still plenty of time to write up a rules request for the meeting next month.
Thanks for the input though Ron.
Brian
BUSBY
08-10-2005, 02:34 PM
sandbaggin is and always will be a touchy subject. everyone will always have their own opinion about what is right and what is wrong. the question is ... what does the club (as a majority) want to do ... and that is where voting comes into play. if the results come in, like they did last year, we have to deal with what they are.
I for one lost a round as did Shawn Forrest for letting out and idling down the track when our competition did not start and finish as fast as we did (we both finished idling through as they finished after breaking the beam within 15 seconds). I figured I would save my engine as I would in the PRO class. It sucked ... but that was the way the rule was. Lifting your foot in brackets is sandbaggin' and it aint allowed until the majority votes against it.
Ron, if this is you, I would agree. Look at all the heads that are turned looking at each other near the finish line!! It is not all that easy to sand bag anyway. If you are running a boat in the 9.00 sec brkt and it runs 9.02's to 9.10's all the time and he has those #'s nailed and you have a boat that will run in the high 8's and you have been lifting so you can run in the 9.00 sec brkt, you have to guess where to lift or fender race him and not break out!! Not as easy as it sounds. Your boat looses it set and you try to peddle it. It is alot easier to run it out the back door all the time and tune it where you need it along as your somewhere close.
Ron, if this is you, you should be kicked out anyway because you run too fast and win way too much!! :p Are you going to Marble Falls or comming to San Diego?
Neil
BUSBY
08-10-2005, 02:43 PM
It is alot easier to run it out the back door all the time and tune it where you need it along as your somewhere close.
:idea: That's what I think ...
Hey Brian, that there is wrong. If the other guy can't start, and he does not leave with you, then I think that he is sandbagging! The only way to cure that is to stagger the lights. Dial in an index and run on that index.
BUSBY
08-10-2005, 02:57 PM
Well ... I am in agreement here on that ... but brackets are that ... brackets. In the PRO classes, it's not weather you lift or not ... it's whoever gets there first ... and that is all I really care about.
I just happened to sign up this year for brackets to use as test-n-tune ... unfortunately, now I'm in the points running for both PRO and 7 second ... so I have to run them both ... it's just in my blood, I can't give up just because I don't normally run that class ...
But it does suck when you know you've won 3/4 down the track and you lift to save your parts (because they haven't even left the starting line) and you still loose the round! It really sucks!
But you're right indexing and running your own number is the only proper way IMO
BUSBY
08-10-2005, 02:59 PM
then I think that he is sandbagging!
not really, he doesn't know if you'll run the number and/or lift because he didn't run ... all he can do is start, cross the beam within 15 seconds and run his number and hope I broke out
BUSBY
08-10-2005, 03:01 PM
Neil ... aren't you supposed to be working on boats for people ... get back to work! :D
Brian, did you ever get ahold of the guy selling the light set-up? How much does it cost to rent lake Ming for a race? I am trying to think of other lakes around that could acommodate both racers and make it easier for spectators to get to. Who the hell wants to go to Bakersfield to watch a race? It's a long haul for me. Puddingstone was great. Always full. Who manages it? What about Castaic. What is Lake Mathews? Does Irvine still have water in it? Just thinking. :idea:
Neil ... aren't you supposed to be working on boats for people ... get back to work! :D
This is more funner! ;)
Jetboatguru
08-10-2005, 04:59 PM
Brian, the sandbag thing is by far the most bogus rule ever implemented. Don't take this as an attack on you please. There are several ways to sandbag and not get caught and makes it ludicrous to have the rule. The rule states that nothing mechanical may be used to slow a boat down. Like say a pulley? I would call that a mechanical change. How about on a legal single when a boat idles forward an extra 25 feet before he mashes the gas? That should add a couple tenths and make sure of not breaking out. It is such a "human" rule to judge and call that it is rediculous. If a flatbottom guy is out on someone and he starts getting it high and lifts a little is he gonna get called? How about the hydro short shift? Right after he whacks the gas he shifts it before the tree. Is someone gonna tell him that he drove his boat to less than its full potential? The Pop off valve, that is always good to scrub a couple tenths and say "oops. it accidently sprung." I am not pointing the finger here but, these are all things that can and do happen. There is no advantage what so ever to sandbagging. 9 seconds at full throttle is the same 9 seconds on and off the gas. It helps people afford to go racing and have a respective chance. What Cyclone is asking is what has been asked for the last 10 years. It has fallen off deaf ears. New people like you and Willis are great to see because you guys are fresh and willing to make a difference. The problem is that everyone is burned out from fighting a losing battle up until now.
Tony
I just think that most racers hear the word " sandbagging" and think of cheating. I don't think they fully understand it. Tony is right, who is to say that you were or were not bagging? If I were racing you and I knew that your boat ran faster or could run faster then why could I not protest you for bagging? What if I said that I saw you look over at me and I heard your motor pitch change? Do I win? He was on the outside lane so my engine noise covered his up. What do we do? He has been racing here for 10 yrs and this was only my 2nd race!! If you say he wins you will never see me again. I think you get the point! :notam:
mj680
08-10-2005, 06:22 PM
Ron, if this is you, I would agree. Look at all the heads that are turned looking at each other near the finish line!! It is not all that easy to sand bag anyway. If you are running a boat in the 9.00 sec brkt and it runs 9.02's to 9.10's all the time and he has those #'s nailed and you have a boat that will run in the high 8's and you have been lifting so you can run in the 9.00 sec brkt, you have to guess where to lift or fender race him and not break out!! Not as easy as it sounds. Your boat looses it set and you try to peddle it. It is alot easier to run it out the back door all the time and tune it where you need it along as your somewhere close.
Ron, if this is you, you should be kicked out anyway because you run too fast and win way too much!! :p Are you going to Marble Falls or comming to San Diego?
Neil
Neil...We are leaving in the morning for Marble Falls and have committed to San Diego because its a invitational race (8 boat field).
If you guys want to run San Diego this year ,you better call Nancy Fegan at IHBA. If she is not there,then talk to Tiffaney Fegan. She is putting together the list for each class. 8 boat fields because of time,based on points. Ron
Thanks Ron, good luck in Texas. I will call in the a.m. for S.D. Talk to you later. Have fun. Neil
cyclone
08-10-2005, 07:24 PM
Brian- sorry i missed the meeting tonight. I was busy putting my boat back together for the CBBB event this weekend. I'll do what i can to show up at the next one. ;)
77charger
08-10-2005, 08:14 PM
j sandbagging is the last thing people should be worrying about. people should get past that little thing. that's not what wins races...
I agree with that a proper boat set up for that class to make a pass full throttle Ex you boat bp or the boat i was drivin in the 9.50 class.There are really no worries to breakin out vs the am i going to break out should i slow up.did i get him on the light,how fast is he runnig,etc,etc
The rule meetings are interesting if you dont go dont complain about the new changes.
How about getting saftey passes without having to beg? Why doesnt the club let us make runs in all the down time? The races ended really early both Sat and Sun last race, there was plenty of time for that. Its just more money for the club.
CS
77charger
08-10-2005, 08:58 PM
How about getting saftey passes without having to beg? Why doesnt the club let us make runs in all the down time? The races ended really early both Sat and Sun last race, there was plenty of time for that. Its just more money for the club.
CS
you need to mention that,I know at chowchilla a couple of years ago they had a test and tune day on friday 100 bucks all the runs you can make or 25 per pass i think.
It did help us we messed up a gear on the v drive,(not the big gears but a smaller one to so with the gear engagement) second pass it failed if it happened on sat it could have ended the weekend.
besides if the action does early that gives you time for tubin doesnt it??
UBFJ #454
08-11-2005, 05:11 AM
Brian -
Thanks for your Offer ... Then your Retraction ... I Understand.
My only Point was the Conflict In The Rules ... Allowing CH2NO3 in the Brackets and Not N2O. Actually, so long as we are allowed to run Exhibition as well as UBFJ when we come over we're Happy with the Rules as they are ... If the Bracket Rules stay the same and we aren't allowed to run Exhibition (which I seriously doubt will happen), we'll just Stop participating in NJBA Events ... The Cost of coming over from Phoenix just isn't worth only a Few Passes.
Re a Capsule ... Bobby Hewitt and I can supply you with one of our New SFI Cert'd LightWeight (200 +/- lbs) Capsules for Far Less Than 15K ... We began fabricating our 1st Capsule (Mine) last week and hope to have it Completed & Cert'd by, and have it at, the World Finals ... If not by then, certainly by the Spring FireBird Race. What Bobby & I are doing is a Significant Up Grade of his current Capsule ... Significant in terms of Additional Safety Features based on his & my ideas/new designs and input from a number of people who have been involved in the Top Pro Classes for many years ...
Also, if your lookin' for Race Props ... We (Black Bear Racing) are now a Dealer for Menkens Race Propellers ... Getting TAH Props @ a Reasonable Price is No Problem for us now ... Even though our Current Race Program is based on 'Jets'.
The Above ... How Bout That For 'Jetter Spam'?
Jak
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 09:55 AM
Brian, the sandbag thing is by far the most bogus rule ever implemented. Don't take this as an attack on you please. There are several ways to sandbag and not get caught and makes it ludicrous to have the rule. The rule states that nothing mechanical may be used to slow a boat down. Like say a pulley? I would call that a mechanical change. How about on a legal single when a boat idles forward an extra 25 feet before he mashes the gas? That should add a couple tenths and make sure of not breaking out. It is such a "human" rule to judge and call that it is rediculous. If a flatbottom guy is out on someone and he starts getting it high and lifts a little is he gonna get called? How about the hydro short shift? Right after he whacks the gas he shifts it before the tree. Is someone gonna tell him that he drove his boat to less than its full potential? The Pop off valve, that is always good to scrub a couple tenths and say "oops. it accidently sprung." I am not pointing the finger here but, these are all things that can and do happen. There is no advantage what so ever to sandbagging. 9 seconds at full throttle is the same 9 seconds on and off the gas. It helps people afford to go racing and have a respective chance. What Cyclone is asking is what has been asked for the last 10 years. It has fallen off deaf ears. New people like you and Willis are great to see because you guys are fresh and willing to make a difference. The problem is that everyone is burned out from fighting a losing battle up until now.
Tony
Thanks Tony for not making it personal ... and I don't (take it that way). And to make my point of view completely clear ... I really don't like bracket racing ... in NHRA ... didn't like it ... here don't like it ... but I'm having fun & in the points, so cool ... I'll run it. I still like the old school whoever finishes first, wins ... period.
On another note, I know about all of the ways to cheat the system ... while I am new to the board and being Race Director, I have been involved with drag boat racing for numerous years and have seen just about everything ... that is why when Don Jones stepped down from being Race Director he supported my being voted in to replace him.
I have had a creative way of interperting rules to have made them work for us (our team) in the past (as 90% of most racers do). I beleive it was Kenny Bernstein who said, "if you're not trying to use the rules to figure out a way to use the stuff you're not intended to use ... you won't be racing competitively". So, who better to enforce the rules that the club votes on than the guy who has tried to memorize the rulebook and use it in a creative manner.
Basically, If there was and/or is a way to be creative with the grey areas of the rulebook ... I'm pretty hip to the idea. But, rules are to be voted in by the membership of the club. If it makes the ballot and the majority votes against it ... don't blame it on the board (like it's being blamed this year) ... blame it on the members who voted to keep it.
And, if you don't want grey areas in a certian area ... put it in writing and send it in. Or even better, come to the meeting next month and voice your opinion.
Now ... this isn't directed at you Tony, just the subject in general.
And everyone, please don't come to me next year and bit*h about something and the way it is while I am having to enforce the rules that the club voted on ... this is why I am bringing it up now so EVERYONE has the oppertunity to get their ideas into writing and to the board so it can make the ballot and be voted on. There is plenty of time still to get it to Roger Roadstrom or Jim Guthrie (1 whole month).
Brian
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 09:56 AM
This is more funner! ;)
You're right ... that's why I check in 2 to 3 times a day ... gives me a stress break! :D
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 09:58 AM
Brian- sorry i missed the meeting tonight. I was busy putting my boat back together for the CBBB event this weekend. I'll do what i can to show up at the next one. ;)
I figured that, I was at Tommy's in the morning & he said you were finishing it up ... you need to make it though ... we spoke about you there ... were your ears burning?
Call me later ...
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 10:00 AM
I just think that most racers hear the word " sandbagging" and think of cheating. I don't think they fully understand it. Tony is right, who is to say that you were or were not bagging? If I were racing you and I knew that your boat ran faster or could run faster then why could I not protest you for bagging? What if I said that I saw you look over at me and I heard your motor pitch change? Do I win? He was on the outside lane so my engine noise covered his up. What do we do? He has been racing here for 10 yrs and this was only my 2nd race!! If you say he wins you will never see me again. I think you get the point! :notam:
yup ... been there ... tried to watch the video to figure it out ...
beleive me, it is the biggest pain in my ass ... dealing with the whole sandbaggin issue ... if there was one person who wishes it would be voted out by the club, I would probably be that guy (now that I have the job)
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 10:12 AM
How about getting saftey passes without having to beg? Why doesnt the club let us make runs in all the down time? The races ended really early both Sat and Sun last race, there was plenty of time for that. Its just more money for the club.
CS
Except for the fact that NJBA has to pay for the ambulance to stay, electricity for tower and timing lights, fuel in rescue boats, gas for starting trailer generator, etc. etc. etc. and the $40 to $80 that peope pay to run in safety passes doesn't cover all of the cost (that's on Saturday)
Same costs on Sunday, except for then we have to tear down the track, take stuff back to storage and than pack our stuff up to go home.
Not to single you out Chris ... but it's easy for most racers to want to make more passes when all they have a road trailer & an easy up to load ... they're not responsible for clean up or tear down
That's why it's not really cost effective to make more passes. Plus like Robert said, when would you and Nelson have time to go tubin'?
cyclone
08-11-2005, 10:13 AM
I figured that, I was at Tommy's in the morning & he said you were finishing it up ... you need to make it though ... we spoke about you there ... were your ears burning?
Call me later ...
oh god that can't be good. ears weren't burning but i did give myself a nice, new header burn to brag about.
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 10:42 AM
cool ... you can blow that (your burn) up into a huge bench racing saga about how you were going soooo fast that your arms were flailing behind you and hit the pipes ... or something along those lines :D
no, Willis and I are pushing for you to be on the board ... we figure you need one more thing to do!
Don't be suprised if you are nominated and placed on the ballot! You've been warned!
"beleive"
C'mon Brian, didn't ya learned nutin in hi scool? I b4 e cept after c. Evry 1 no's dat!! :hammer2:
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 12:03 PM
I dunno ... I dont remembur much from way back then :D
maybee I need more schoolin! :hammer2:
No j/k... sometimes I get to typing so fast my fingers are going faster than my brain!
sorry, I believe the was Kenny Bernstein who said that! :cool:
Brian
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 12:04 PM
oh crap I now see I did it more than once!
okay ... now I know I have lost it!
too funny!
I shouldn't have said anything, I can't spell for crap! :wink:
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 12:59 PM
oh, don't worry ... if it weren't for spell check, I don't think 90% of high schoolers would be graduating these days!
but back to the real subject (instead of our ramblings about how we can or can't spell) ... I think Mike (cyclone) needs to write up a sugesstion to increase the cubic inch size in BGJ if he wants to be legal next year! (hint, hint, hint)
:notam:
Brian
cyclone
08-11-2005, 01:02 PM
oh, don't worry ... if it weren't for spell check, I don't think 90% of high schoolers would be graduating these days!
but back to the real subject (instead of our ramblings about how we can or can't spell) ... I think Mike (cyclone) needs to write up a sugesstion to increase the cubic inch size in BGJ if he wants to be legal next year! (hint, hint, hint)
:notam:
Brian
That's a good idea but i dont think it will be an issue if i keep red-lighting myself out in the first round. :p
BUSBY
08-11-2005, 01:29 PM
Mike ... still send in the request ... the cubic inch was from a long time ago ... it needs to be updated. (that is if you want to run that class)
And the red light issue will take care of itself when you get the pump to load properly ... (consistant launches)
I would hate for you to win next year and have to be the one to disqualify you due to an oversized engine! :hammerhea
Except for the fact that NJBA has to pay for the ambulance to stay, electricity for tower and timing lights, fuel in rescue boats, gas for starting trailer generator, etc. etc. etc. and the $40 to $80 that peope pay to run in safety passes doesn't cover all of the cost (that's on Saturday)
Same costs on Sunday, except for then we have to tear down the track, take stuff back to storage and than pack our stuff up to go home.
Not to single you out Chris ... but it's easy for most racers to want to make more passes when all they have a road trailer & an easy up to load ... they're not responsible for clean up or tear down
That's why it's not really cost effective to make more passes. Plus like Robert said, when would you and Nelson have time to go tubin'?
Well if the board has done the math and the $50 that NJBA could pocket for 2 boats to go down the track on a saftey pass or "the dash for cash" is a total loss and they are loosing money, then I understand completely.
I'd imagine there probably wont be 30 boats jumping at the chance for a saftey pass, but there were quite a few running in dash for cash.
Your not singling me out busby, its cool. Ya i have a pretty simple set up,tear down, I like it that way.
NELSON#109
08-11-2005, 11:54 PM
Well if the board has done the math and the $50 that NJBA could pocket for 2 boats to go down the track on a saftey pass or "the dash for cash" is a total loss and they are loosing money, then I understand completely.
I'd imagine there probably wont be 30 boats jumping at the chance for a saftey pass, but there were quite a few running in dash for cash.
Your not singling me out busby, its cool. Ya i have a pretty simple set up,tear down, I like it that way.
1ST, THE SANDBAGGING RULE HAS TO GO. LIKE BP SAID, IT WOULD SHART CAN A BUNCH OF ISSUES. SANDBAGGING IN ANY FORM IS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OF THE OTHER CRAP WE ALL DO TO WIN. I AGREE 100% THAT EXCLUDING NOS FROM BRACKETS IS STUPID. HOW CAN YOU TELL SOMEONE RUNNING NOS, THAT THE FACT THEY CAN SET IT UP WITH TIMERS, AND OR USE IT OR NOT USE IT, IS ANY DIFFERENT THAN THOSE USING LAUNCH CONTROL ECT.
AS FAR AS THE SAFETY PASS THING, I WONT SAY TO MUCH ABOUT SUNDAY, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND PEOPLE HAVE WORK TO DO, AND THEY NEED TO GET HOME, BUT...... THEY CALL THEM SAFETY PASSES FOR A REASON, AND I CANT IMAGINE THAT THE PRICE PAID FOR A PASS DOESNT COVER THE COSTS.... EACH PASS ONLY TAKES 5 TO 10 MINS IF THE RACER IN NEED HAS HIS SHIT TOGATHER. AND IF THOSE ARE NO GOOD, CALL IT A DASH FOR CASH. I'VE USED THE DASH FOR CASH AS A SAFTEY PASS.
NOW, ON TO THE TUBING ISSUE. I DO ENJOY FINISHING EARLY. AN EARLY FINISH MEANS AN EARLY START ON THE MIGHTY KERN, MY BUZZ, AND THE ALL MIGHTY FLOATILLA!!!! BUT, IF FOR SOME REASON I DID NEED THE SAFETY PASS...... EVEN IF IT COSTS THE CLUB A LITTLE $$$$ TO GIVE IT TO ME, THEY SHOULD... WHO KNOWS, IF THEY DONT, IT COULD COST THE CLUB A MEMBER, OR WORSE A MEMBERS LIFE.
"BEAT IT" NELSON#109
BUSBY
08-12-2005, 08:01 AM
I wish there were more of you who had their crap together and could get to the ramp quickly ... unfortunately, most don't ... when we started offering passes at a price years back, more boats signed up ... but on the average now, we only get 2-3 at the most. I should know, because it has to be approved by me.
Now, we pay the ambulance company alone $325/hour to be there ... so the $50 - $75 dollars collected has not been enough to cover them alone.
As far as the dash for cash ... we started that to make racers happy. We organize it throughout the day, announce it throughout the day so everyone knows it's coming as part of the program. It's a totally different thing than the safety passes.
If safety passes are such an important factor, then racers should step up more often and go to the tower before the end of the race and ask if they can be put on a list in case we have time. Lisa usually notifies me everytime someone signs up ... but they usually come after the last pass or 20 minutes before the program is ending which makes it almost impossible to plan for.
I hereby nominate Chris Starkweather and Aaron Nelson to be board members for the 2006 season for the NJBA. Their dedication to the club has been awesome! And their foresight is unmatched. All kidding aside, you guys should come w/ Finnegan ... you'd be able to see how everything breaks down at the board meetings ... and you should volunteer for the board, you guys have good intentions and ideas!
Brian
NELSON#109
08-12-2005, 12:12 PM
I wish there were more of you who had their crap together and could get to the ramp quickly ... unfortunately, most don't ... when we started offering passes at a price years back, more boats signed up ... but on the average now, we only get 2-3 at the most. I should know, because it has to be approved by me.
Now, we pay the ambulance company alone $325/hour to be there ... so the $50 - $75 dollars collected has not been enough to cover them alone.
As far as the dash for cash ... we started that to make racers happy. We organize it throughout the day, announce it throughout the day so everyone knows it's coming as part of the program. It's a totally different thing than the safety passes.
If safety passes are such an important factor, then racers should step up more often and go to the tower before the end of the race and ask if they can be put on a list in case we have time. Lisa usually notifies me everytime someone signs up ... but they usually come after the last pass or 20 minutes before the program is ending which makes it almost impossible to plan for.
I hereby nominate Chris Starkweather and Aaron Nelson to be board members for the 2006 season for the NJBA. Their dedication to the club has been awesome! And their foresight is unmatched. All kidding aside, you guys should come w/ Finnegan ... you'd be able to see how everything breaks down at the board meetings ... and you should volunteer for the board, you guys have good intentions and ideas!
Brian
I KNEW THAT WOULD GET YA GOIN.... OFF TO THE CBBB, YOUR WELCOME TO COME JOIN ME FOR SOME .99$ CORONAS MY FRIEND. IF THE MEETINGS WERE NOT SO FAR FOR ME, I WOULD COME AND JOIN IN. BUT, IT'S MOST LIKELY A GOOD THING I CANT... I WOULD MAKE TO MUCH NOISE, AND BE TOO ROWDY(SP).... BEAT IT. NELSON#109
BUSBY
08-12-2005, 12:43 PM
I KNEW THAT WOULD GET YA GOIN.... OFF TO THE CBBB, YOUR WELCOME TO COME JOIN ME FOR SOME .99$ CORONAS MY FRIEND. IF THE MEETINGS WERE NOT SO FAR FOR ME, I WOULD COME AND JOIN IN. BUT, IT'S MOST LIKELY A GOOD THING I CANT... I WOULD MAKE TO MUCH NOISE, AND BE TOO ROWDY(SP).... BEAT IT. NELSON#109
You never know ... I might have to make the drive and make a cameo appearance! I really don't have much going on other than trying to sell parts off so I can afford Tony's motor!
I'll call you if I'm going to make it out ... probably would be early Saturday morning if anything.
Brian
Cmon, Busby. Dont get us all excited that your comin'.
I understand what your saying about the ambulance costs,etc.I didnt realize it was on an hourly basis... Anyways, the dash for cash is fun, hopefully we can continue with that.
Im out on the board member/mettings at this point, you guys are doing a great job, and appear to have everything under control. :D Except for the alky permits and beer stands, you guys need another beer drinker on the board obviously. :D J/K Busby, keep up all the good work, we appreciate it.
See ya at CBBB
CS
BUSBY
08-12-2005, 03:55 PM
Again ... I hope to make it ... I had to move my office and getting back to work sucks! I want to be playing with skateboards and CO2 tanks again!
I also have airline tickets to go to Marble Falls this weekend ... but it looks like my partner isn't going to make it, so it might have to be CBBB ... if so I'll be lookin' for a ride in someones boat & a lawn chair to pass out in overnight!
If I don't see you guys, have fun.
Brian
NELSON#109
08-12-2005, 04:36 PM
Brian, You Need To Go... I Was Being Some What Of A Bitch About The Trip, But I Pulled My Head Outa My Ass, Sewed Up The Vagina, And Decided To Go. Im Even Taking #109 With Me... Crazy.. .99 Cent Coronas My Friend.... Ill Be Bummin Rides With Ya, I Have Plenty Of People Offering So We'll Be Ok... And If You Cant Find A Ride, I Have Good News.... Im Bringing My Tube... We Can Tie It To The Tunnel Ram, And Ill Tow You. Dont Be A Girl. Were All Hopin You Can Make It. And Dont For Get, The Train Goes To Needles, And We Can Pick You Up.
"beat It" Nelson#109
that would be one hell of a train ride.
Nelson im glad you stitched it up, you had me worried the other day.
Lets get back on track here....NJBA rocks but the Rio Bravo sucks.
CS will own 9 second class next race. :notam:
BUSBY
08-12-2005, 07:00 PM
hmmm ... train ... Irvine Amtrack to Needles ... :idea:
I dunno ... tempting ... however the Wife's Benz gets gret mileage ... but 4 hours of driving vs. the bar car on the train ...
I spoke to Finnegan, he said the same thing ... to get my ass out there ... damn ... decisions, decisions.
Okay, Nelson, I'm calling you tomorrow, it looks like I'm CBBB bound.
pops1
08-13-2005, 08:43 AM
[QUOTE=bp]I know NJBA Clock & Light System will Handle 1000 FT Races.
Its a Great Classic Match Up of Jets & Prop.
We now are watching these Guy's Run sound 130s in 1000 Feet. "Both Spectators and Racers Love It" And its Prop VS Jet in a Max "G LOAD RUN"
Its also Great for the Economy in STEERING WHEEL SALES.
NJBA You need to Look into this Running, it gets Bigger and Bolder every year & would fit into your program -Guys Tow Miles to Run This! Ming gets shorter & shorter.
BUSBY
08-13-2005, 08:54 AM
NJBA You need to Look into this Running, it gets Bigger and Bolder every year & would fit into your program -Guys Tow Miles to Run This! Ming gets shorter & shorter.
Thanks Dave for the input ... I agree ... with boats getting faster and faster, the lake does get shorter and shorter. Back in the early 80's and into the 90's only a handfull of Blown Gas Jet's were hitting 117 to 125 ... now you're seeing most jets hitting 100+ ... with almost all Blown jets hitting those speeds. And with Hydro's today, forget about it ...
The shorter track deal has been spoken about like Smokin in the Cove ... but it would be a complete event change ... not just a category added to our present program.
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