what does this mean

[454-ways-to-go]

when to the lake this weekend, boat was running good (4800rpm).then all of a sudden the oil pressure dropped to 10lbs at idle.i was told to keep a eye on it.gave it some fuel it went up to 40lbs and 9-10lbs back at idle.then starting to hear some light knocking noises, and the idle jumped up 200-300 rpm more at idle than normal. (fresh 454,about 1 hr of run time).today i cut the filter open and oil appears to have copper color to it.does this mean i spun some bearings or the lite knocking noise because valve lash change?

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

run a magnet in the heads and look for metal! Then take a smaple of the oil to work tomorrow and let me see it!!!

[454-ways-to-go]

i emailed u some pics, doesnt look good :cry: :cry: :cry:

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

holy shit jonathan :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239oil1.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239oil2.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239oil3.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239oil4.jpg

[Squirtin Thunder]

Well that does not look good at all !!!
Sorry man !!!
Pull the pan and see what is messed up !!!

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I gotcha brotha;) Pull that puppy out and pull the pan then give mr bailey a middle finger!!! I will roll over and help you rebuild it;) We need to see my machine shop;) They build donavans all day long and theyre game is tight!! Look on the bright side of things, your rooster was higher than ty's and I spanked the $hit out of a 32ft kachina and a few other jets yesterday after you left :D My partner troy scattered his 428 ford as well. back to the drawing board...............

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Well that does not look good at all !!!
Sorry man !!!
Pull the pan and see what is messed up !!!
Thats definatley bearing material :frown: :frown: :cry: :cry:
I smell poor machine work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Squirtin Thunder]

I gotcha brotha;) Pull that puppy out and pull the pan then give mr bailey a middle finger!!! I will roll over and help you rebuild it;) We need to see my machine shop;) They build donavans all day long and theyre game is tight!! Look on the bright side of things, your rooster was higher than ty's and I spanked the $hit out of a 32ft kachina and a few other jets yesterday after you left :D My partner troy scattered his 428 ford as well. back to the drawing board...............
A little rough on parts ???
What is in that water you guys boat at ???

[454-ways-to-go]

what other factors can cause this to happen

[454-ways-to-go]

I gotcha brotha;) Pull that puppy out and pull the pan then give mr bailey a middle finger!!! I will roll over and help you rebuild it;) We need to see my machine shop;) They build donavans all day long and theyre game is tight!! Look on the bright side of things, your rooster was higher than ty's and I spanked the $hit out of a 32ft kachina and a few other jets yesterday after you left :D My partner troy scattered his 428 ford as well. back to the drawing board...............
hopefuuly cave can get the pics and video up!!!! :D :D since Im on a down :( :( hopefully those pics/video can bring me back up to do this again!!! :D :D

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

hopefuuly cave can get the pics and video up!!!! :D :D since Im on a down :( :( hopefully those pics/video can bring me back up to do this again!!! :D :D
I got room for ya if you wanna roll!!! Mine hauls the mail pretty damn good too;)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

A little rough on parts ???
What is in that water you guys boat at ???
I think its the machine work personally. Just my opinion though!!!! Good thing he caught it before it did anymore damage!!

[454-ways-to-go]

yeahhhhhh

[460 jus getn it]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239oil1.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239oil2.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239oil3.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239oil4.jpg
:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :supp: :supp: :supp: o my god. johnson im sorry.........ill be there to take that sumbitch out and fix it.........holy shit thats not cool..........

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :supp: :supp: :supp: o my god. johnson im sorry.........ill be there to take that sumbitch out and fix it.........holy shit thats not cool..........
Get ur ass in that image center and upload them pics;)

[Moneypitt]

I gotta a feeling "caught it in time" is a little off the mark. Let me take a guess. Mains were too tight, got hot, peeled the bearings, poluted the rod bearings with the melting mains, rod(s) started the knocking sound, low pressure unless rev'd up to fill the voids with oil. Damage: crank, Mains and rods. Main webs/caps if they got hot enough, and any rods that spun bearings. Possible causes: Tight main clearance. Oil holes not properly deburred, flexable crank, junk,(dirt) in the parts when assembled, improper oil pickup for the application,(or the pick up fell out)..........MP

[Fiat48]

It's got some clearance now. The hard way. That's why the low oil pressure at idle. Good luck.

[HOSS]

Damn,,,,thats sure is bearing material. Clearances must have been non existent.

[roostwear]

Got a sneakin suspicion your thrust main is a memory. :frown: You can check it by checking the lateral play on the crank, but one thing's for sure.... the pan, she's a comin' off.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

There it is jonathan. The big dogs have pointed it out! Pull her a part and we'll getcha hooked up;)

[Schiada76]

With nothing in the filter I have wiped #1, spun #4, wiped #5.
Does not look good. :cry:
Oh yeah, mine made no noise at all.

[rrrr]

I gotta a feeling "caught it in time" is a little off the mark.
Ya think?? :idea:
:D :D

[AZKC]

Yuk, been there done that. Then I moved on to valve train demolition :notam:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Sure looks like bearings are gone. Hope they didn't scar up expensive parts. Maybe a new crank-polish up. Hopefully the rods just making noise from being loose, not from being buned up AND loose. Sure is certain tho ... you're gonna find out when the pan comes out and the crank comes out. :frown:
An hour running time, I'd tend to suspect too tight of clearances too. :idea: I tried to set up my 454 right about mid-range when I rebuilt her this past winter, have about 14 hours on it, running like a raped ape, nitrous too.
That oil looked like my can of Coper Coat Gasket Sealer. :cry:

[454-ways-to-go]

this week end i will take the pan off and find how many bearings i wiped out and ill keep you guys posted. thanks
Jonathan

[Blown 472]

That is just standard chivvy breaking shinny stuff. Sorry to hear bout that.

[Mighty Thor]

when to the lake this weekend, boat was running good (4800rpm). (fresh 454,about 1 hr of run time).
By my way of thinking this answers your question. When we break in a motor we set it up to run about 3 or four hours at about half that RPM. Sounds to me that you were running a new tight motor and clearances closed up on you. Just my opinion, worth exactly what you have paid for it so far.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

By my way of thinking this answers your question. When we break in a motor we set it up to run about 3 or four hours at about half that RPM. Sounds to me that you were running a new tight motor and clearances closed up on you. Just my opinion, worth exactly what you have paid for it so far.
Our other friend ran his motor to 5000 rpm's the first 30 minutes and it is still alive;) He has about 15 hours on it and it runs hard;)

[Mighty Thor]

Like I said, my opinion aint worth much, We build engines for Stock cars and Demo Derby. Point em into the wind and let em break in. Never had a spun bearing.

[Moneypitt]

In todays world if you need to baby an engine during "break in" there is something lacking in the choices made during the planning stages. The parts and pieces available today, and the advanced technology of todays shop equipment allow precision equal to a swiss watch. You don't have to leave a new watch on the dresser to "break in". If it's done right, fire it up, warm it up, and wring it's neck.......The key word there is "warm"..............MP

[Thunderbutt]

In todays world if you need to baby an engine during "break in" there is something lacking in the choices made during the planning stages. The parts and pieces available today, and the advanced technology of todays shop equipment allow precision equal to a swiss watch. You don't have to leave a new watch on the dresser to "break in". If it's done right, fire it up, warm it up, and wring it's neck.......The key word there is "warm"..............MP
Moneypitt is right, After the cam brake in, put it to the wood. If the motor was built right. The guy that built my motor drove the boat the first time and that is what he did. 31 years later I still have the same crank, rod's, had the heads done once, I changed the pistons because of the shitty gas.

[Mighty Thor]

Moneypitt is right, After the cam brake in, put it to the wood. If the motor was built right. The guy that built my motor drove the boat the first time and that is what he did.
Yep, that sure worked good for this guy. And when the engine builder swears there was nothing wrong with the way he put the engine together then who is gonna be pissed? If I "baby" an engine for a while first, no one is ever gonna blame me if it quits after only one hour. Hope this one came with a warranty.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

When rebuilding my 454, I was advised to break in teh cam for 20 min min, then drive it no faster than 3500 for an hour, then no higher than 4500 for an hour, then no higher than 5500 (I'm topped off at 4700). No Wide open blasts till 4500 RPM stage, and no LOOOONG runs till after that. :boxed:
I'm running great. Yea, some folks just wind her up tight soon as it's wet, Some get away with it, some don't. I think easing it in gives you some cushion from tight bearing clearances. not much chance of really wadding one (or more) up, may brush a few tight spots out wider here & there. Too bad no statistics kept on the ratio of easy breakins with success to harsh break-ins with success. Success to failure ratios of both. :cool:
Sorry it looks like you have your whole bearing set ground up, at least 13 of em. And to think, the main bearing material is lead. The backing (#2) material is copper (if you are running my clevites) with steel as #3. :( :( :(

[460 jus getn it]

Our other friend ran his motor to 5000 rpm's the first 30 minutes and it is still alive;) He has about 15 hours on it and it runs hard;)
that would be me............i ran my ford to 5100rpm the first day and whooped a hallet while doing it.this isnt a case of running it to hard to fast its a case of bad machine work............

[460 jus getn it]

In todays world if you need to baby an engine during "break in" there is something lacking in the choices made during the planning stages. The parts and pieces available today, and the advanced technology of todays shop equipment allow precision equal to a swiss watch. You don't have to leave a new watch on the dresser to "break in". If it's done right, fire it up, warm it up, and wring it's neck.......The key word there is "warm"..............MP
amen...........

[cave]

Wow bro this sucks. I was hoping to see all of us again at the lake this weekend. I fixed my starter problem. The vids well I cant load em with sound yet. Dam pinnacle.
Johnson, chalk this one up to the learning curve. Luckily you & mike have the good parts hook up :D
Why wait till Saturday. Simple unbolt it. Ty can pull that thing out by himself. then hold it while you pull the pan. lol.

[460 jus getn it]

Wow bro this sucks. I was hoping to see all of us again at the lake this weekend. I fixed my starter problem. The vids well I cant load em with sound yet. Dam pinnacle.
Johnson, chalk this one up to the learning curve. Luckily you & mike have the good parts hook up :D
Why wait till Saturday. Simple unbolt it. Ty can pull that thing out by himself. then hold it while you pull the pan. lol.
jimmy we are going to pull it this weekend. why cant you upload the videos. also how did the shower feel........................

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

In todays world if you need to baby an engine during "break in" there is something lacking in the choices made during the planning stages. The parts and pieces available today, and the advanced technology of todays shop equipment allow precision equal to a swiss watch. You don't have to leave a new watch on the dresser to "break in". If it's done right, fire it up, warm it up, and wring it's neck.......The key word there is "warm"..............MP
Moneypitt is right, After the cam brake in, put it to the wood. If the motor was built right. The guy that built my motor drove the boat the first time and that is what he did. 31 years later I still have the same crank, rod's, had the heads done once, I changed the pistons because of the shitty gas.
I agree with both of these guys. I broke my cam in for 30 minutes with extra oil in the pan like fiat said. Then I cut the filter and it was clean. I then ran her on the trailer for about 30 minutes more with various rpms up to 3500 then I went to the lake. I ran it a little hard for the first 3 trips then I cut the filter and it was clean again.I then changed the oil and filter. So then saturday and sunday I let her rip @ wot for 10-15 seconds at a time. i said f**k it, if she goes then she goes.I was running 5400-5600r's and she was singing;) Well.......... she didnt go so shes all good;)
I did the same with my last motor which was a 455 olds!!!!! She is still running hard;)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Yep, that sure worked good for this guy. And when the engine builder swears there was nothing wrong with the way he put the engine together then who is gonna be pissed? If I "baby" an engine for a while first, no one is ever gonna blame me if it quits after only one hour. Hope this one came with a warranty.
I never babied my jetski and she is still running;) I ran her to 9000 r's the first day alllllllll day loooooong and 4 years later she still purs like a kitten;)
This was a bad case of machine work in my opinion................

[Mighty Thor]

I never babied my jetski and she is still running;) I ran her to 9000 r's the first day alllllllll day loooooong and 4 years later she still purs like a kitten;)
This was a bad case of machine work in my opinion................
I am sure the engine builder will agree with you 100%.

[Norseman]

By my way of thinking this answers your question. When we break in a motor we set it up to run about 3 or four hours at about half that RPM. Sounds to me that you were running a new tight motor and clearances closed up on you. Just my opinion, worth exactly what you have paid for it so far.
I've always run them hard once the cam is broken in, if they are going to break you screwed something up!!! Better to find out sooner than later!!!!!!

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I am sure the engine builder will agree with you 100%.
He built his own motor. I showed him on the first one and he did this one by himself. Its all good;) We have been talking about the rebuild and I will assist him on the next one and it will last;)

[454-ways-to-go]

just have to chalk it up to experience. learn from your mistakes!

[texas-19]

I've seen that happen when the engine was not primed with oil.
If it's # 1 or 2 that MIGHT be it.

[454-ways-to-go]

well started to pull engine apart, not good all bearing except cam have scuffs on them :jawdrop: :jawdrop: will post pics later. looks like it was lacking oil :idea:

[Infomaniac]

I hate it when that happens man.
Break In ???
I put them together, put it on the dyno, set the timing while the oil is warming up and run the piss out of it.
I do tell folks give it 10 hours or so of break in. The main reason is it will run better once the rings etc are all seated in.

[460 jus getn it]

well here is the damage.......looks like his bearings arent getting oil. the bearings got worse as u go down the main caps......
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1570bearing1.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1570bearing2.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1570bearing4.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1570crank1.JPG

[Moneypitt]

Looks like the damage could've started at the edges of the oil holes. Ground crank without rechamfering the oil holes????............MP

[460 jus getn it]

Looks like the damage could've started at the edges of the oil holes. Ground crank without rechamfering the oil holes????............MP
it looks that way. the ware is right in the middle of the bearing. u cant tell but the crank has a grind mark that is about 1/8 deep. the main bearnigs from 1-5 are all ground in the same stop and the damage gets worse as you go from 1-5......................

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Im with ya on the rebuild!!! My oil filter has some metal in it as well!!!!!!!! I think silicone got in the oil and plugged the the oil pump pickup!!!!!!
Its not bad, just a little dust and no chunks. BUT, I still have to pull the pan and check the pump and I will pull a cap off and rod cap and check......just for a peace of mind.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

oh well, its only money and "I AINT GOT ANYMORE LEFT" :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[jack sparks]

I think most of the wear you see in the middle of the bearings is probably from all the crap that went through the motor .I would look for one that is worse than the rest maybe a rod that shows color all the way across the bearing .

[hondajoey]

Mike Are you guys going out this sunday 8/21 or are you tearing down your engine i am trying to make a run out to the east side.

[454-ways-to-go]

oh well, its only money and "I AINT GOT ANYMORE LEFT" :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
F**k it can't take with you , just swipe it!!!

[454-ways-to-go]

hopefully be back in a couple of weeks

[460 jus getn it]

Mike Are you guys going out this sunday 8/21 or are you tearing down your engine i am trying to make a run out to the east side.
we will be out this weekend.................look us up joey.................. :D :D

[Moneypitt]

Jack, I agree that alot of the damage was done by the junk in the motor, but something had to start the junk moving. If an oil hole has a sharp burr left on it, the material from the bearing starts to roll up, the bigger the roll, the more material it will gather. If it started in the main(s), then the rods are poluted from there, but all of them? Most, if not all, oil filters will catch any pieces big enough to do that damage, but if the junk is created down stream of the filter, by unchamfered oil holes you will get exactly what he has now. Junk from the rods should not get to the mains unless there is no oil filter....MP

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Mike Are you guys going out this sunday 8/21 or are you tearing down your engine i am trying to make a run out to the east side.
I am pulling the pan today to inspect. Hopefully the bearings are ok. I ran the shit out of it and it wasnt knocking so I am hoping its ok. If so I will bolt the pan back up and go play. I will let you know for sure by friday. If we go it will be on sunday at saguaro;) Hopefully jimmy(cave) will be there so we can shoot some video of everyones boat;)
396

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

F**k it can't take with you , just swipe it!!!
Easier said than done!!!!!!
hopefully be back in a couple of weeks
At the rate your ass is going you will be back very soon :D But I know nothing;) Let me know when we are hitting rpm and in the ride;)
396

[hondajoey]

let me know me and my brother-in-law are going to try to roll out with my new ride and his new ride (my old boat)
we will look you up sunday if your out there what time do you guys roll out to the lake?

[460 jus getn it]

let me know me and my brother-in-law are going to try to roll out with my new ride and his new ride (my old boat)
we will look you up sunday if your out there what time do you guys roll out to the lake?
ill be out there around 2-3pm..........im not sure what time everyone elese willbe out there......