Fosgate vs JL

[Outnumbered]

I have an unknown model Fosgate that keeps shutting down. I think its from heat because it is in a poorly ventilated area. Could also be possible that it is low voltage. I have a JL 500/1 in the same mounting area that has never shut down. I was thinking of taking out the Fosgate and replacing it with a JL 450/4. Does this sound like a good idea or should I keep the Fosgate and get a fan? The Fosgate is running 4 JL 6.5s on the rear and 2 Infinity Kappa 6x9s on the fronts.
Here are pics of the Fosgate. Does anyone know what model it is?
Thanks
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/973P8080070.JPG http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/973P8080069.JPG

[Outnumbered]

This thread is going over on the Sand Bar FYI.

[BoatFloating]

JL over Rockford Hotplates any day...... :D

[riverbound]

Fosgate over JL any day

[rivercrazy]

IMHO - JL is a much better amp than RF. Fosgate hasn't been the same in about 10 years. And they all run hotter than july. Everyone I know that runs them at the river fights thermal shutdown. But that is OK if you like to cook bacon for a BLT lunch!

[riverbound]

IMHO - JL is a much better amp than RF. Fosgate hasn't been the same in about 10 years. And they all run hotter than july. Everyone I know that runs them at the river fights thermal shutdown. But that is OK if you like to cook bacon for a BLT lunch!
hmmmm. you must not know anyone that runs a Force cat?? All of them are running the NEW powere series amps that have internal fans. Been running these amps for 2 years now in all of the boats and not one has shut down yet due to heat :idea:
And prior to that we ran the "hotplates" and still had very little problems with thermal shut down.

[rivercrazy]

What does a force cat have to do with Rockford Fosgate?
I had at lots of friends /boating bro's run Fosgates and the majority of them have problems with thermal shutdown due to heat. Many of them ditched Fosgates for other brands with the exact same speaker/power wiring/ohm loads and their problems went away completely. Some of the brands that replaced Fosgate were PG, JL, JBL.
Just my .02 cents based on my own personal experience.
But GO TEAM RF!!!!!!!!

[BoatFloating]

hmmmm. you must not know anyone that runs a Force cat?? All of them are running the NEW powere series amps that have internal fans. Been running these amps for 2 years now in all of the boats and not one has shut down yet due to heat :idea:
And prior to that we ran the "hotplates" and still had very little problems with thermal shut down.
Man do those RF's come with free crack?????? :D You ask 10 people and 8 of them that had RF's say they suck ass. I've never had my JL's shut down due to heat and that's in 126 degree heat and 3/4 volume. But maybe because it's in a 29' Carrera but hell the Force is the same bottom so there you go. RF's are good for one thing Bacon and French Toast...... :sleeping:

[riverbound]

Man do those RF's come with free crack?????? :D You ask 10 people and 8 of them that had RF's say they suck ass. I've never had my JL's shut down due to heat and that's in 126 degree heat and 3/4 volume. But maybe because it's in a 29' Carrera but hell the Force is the same bottom so there you go. RF's are good for one thing Bacon and French Toast...... :sleeping:
You find me 1 person who has had the Power series amps that are currently being used that has shut down due to heat and I will retract my statement. Crack????.....hell no but with over 10 years in the audio industry I might have learned a thing or two. ;)

[rivercrazy]

Selling RF stuff! GO TEAM RF!!!!!!!

[riverbound]

Selling RF stuff! GO TEAM RF!!!!!!!
Not selling....now Ijust buy it :wink:

[1stepcloser]

I have pesonal experience with hotplates..... :cool:
I have run them off and on since the 80's. (back when they were great equipment.) and will agree that they get pretty damn hot, more so than any other brand I have had experience with.
My current 4 channel used to shut off within 15 minutes of high volume listening. I tried a couple of different mounting locations with no luck.
after the I did the last update two years ago, I have had zero problems with heat.
They need some type of air movement across them. I am using a pair of 3 inch brushless fans on the 4 channel in an enclosed rack, and can now play till the batteries run down. :)
MAybe I need to switch to 6 volt batteries to add more playing time?

[1stepcloser]

You find me 1 person who has had the Power series amps that are currently being used that has shut down due to heat and I will retract my statement.
Me. :supp:
I run a Power 400.4 and a Power BD1100.1
The 400.4 as I said in the previous post, would run for about 15 minutes in the heat before thermal shutdown would happen.

[mbrown2]

You find me 1 person who has had the Power series amps that are currently being used that has shut down due to heat and I will retract my statement.
I have two 800.4 Power amps and a 1500.1BD Power Amp...the 1500.1 shuts down due to Thermal when it is hot out....I leave the hatch up it helps..., but they have external fans..
I have a 600.1 PG in another boat, in a an enclosed area with only internal fans, and it does not shutdown.
Good sounding amps but they do not have the cooling properties of some of the better amps out there..

[MONEYFURNOTHIN]

I have run both RF and JL. I would reccomend JL. What everyone else said, the RF are quick to shut down, and that was in my truck! Great amp, sounds good, but will shut down

[syke-o]

Me. :supp:
I run a Power 400.4 and a Power BD1100.1
The 400.4 as I said in the previous post, would run for about 15 minutes in the heat before thermal shutdown would happen.
i also run a couple fans to keep a little air moving and have no probs....

[riverbound]

Me. :supp:
I run a Power 400.4 and a Power BD1100.1
The 400.4 as I said in the previous post, would run for about 15 minutes in the heat before thermal shutdown would happen.
What color are the amps...those model #'s are for the older waffle iron amps. The NEW power series amps are smooth and a really dark charcoal color and the model # starts with a T.

[riverbound]

i also run a couple fans to keep a little air moving and have no probs....
Whoever did the install must have done it right ;)

[Outnumbered]

Thanks for the input. So will I be disappointed with the SQ if I go from the RF 801x to the JL 450/4 or E6450? They both seem to put out less power than the RF. Or are they rated more conservative than the RF.

[Outnumbered]

You find me 1 person who has had the Power series amps that are currently being used that has shut down due to heat and I will retract my statement. Crack????.....hell no but with over 10 years in the audio industry I might have learned a thing or two. ;)
Riverbound, I don't have a Power Series so what would you do if you had the RF 801? Replace it with a JL or a RF power series?

[rivercrazy]

You won't hear any difference in sound quality among different brands of amps (assuming they are of equal power). A watt is a watt. Go with the most dependable amp and the lowest price you can find that suits you needs. Top dollar spent on 12V audio gear doesn't always produce the results you would expect or be satisfied with!

[riverbound]

Thanks for the input. So will I be disappointed with the SQ if I go from the RF 801x to the JL 450/4 or E6450? They both seem to put out less power than the RF. Or are they rated more conservative than the RF.
Honestly as far as sound quality goes....You will not noitce the difference (especially in a boat) but the more power you put to your speakers the better they will sound.

[riverbound]

You won't hear any difference in sound quality among different brands of amps (assuming they are of equal power). A watt is a watt. Go with the most dependable amp and the lowest price you can find that suits you needs. Top dollar spent on 12V audio gear doesn't always produce the results you would expect or be satisfied with!
That isnt entirely true. you can not compare the sound quality of a Sony amp to the sound of a JL.. you would definitley notice the difference. Also "a watt is a watt" ?? the wattage has pretty much nothing to do with sound quality.

[Outnumbered]

Well my main concern is that both JL's rated power output at my ohm load is lower than what the RF 801 is. So will It not be as loud and clear?

[rivercrazy]

That isnt entirely true. you can not compare the sound quality of a Sony amp to the sound of a JL.. you would definitley notice the difference. Also "a watt is a watt" ?? the wattage has pretty much nothing to do with sound quality.
If you compare a Sony of equal wattage to the JL and you defeat all of the sound processing features (which color sound anyway and should be defeated), you will not be able to tell the difference in sound quality. That is a fact. A speaker cannot tell the difference between a Sony watt and a JL watt. They are the same!

[riverbound]

If you compare a Sony of equal wattage to the JL and you defeat all of the sound processing features (which color sound anyway and should be defeated), you will not be able to tell the difference in sound quality. That is a fact. A speaker cannot tell the difference between a Sony watt and a JL watt. They are the same!
THD is factor also. and noone runs there systems completely flat. wattage is a measure of power. sound quality is affected by Distortion leves (THD)

[Outnumbered]

If you compare a Sony of equal wattage to the JL and you defeat all of the sound processing features (which color sound anyway and should be defeated), you will not be able to tell the difference in sound quality. That is a fact. A speaker cannot tell the difference between a Sony watt and a JL watt. They are the same!
Than I should have bought the Kraco 1000 ;) . I think the THD has a lot to do with it. Clean watts are good watts. Anyway, back to my question above.
Will the JL 450/4 or E6450 be as loud and clear as the RF 801?

[riverbound]

Than I should have bought the Kraco 1000 ;) . I think the THD has a lot to do with it. Clean watts are good watts. Anyway, back to my question above.
Will the JL 450/4 or E6450 be as loud and clear as the RF 801?
the 450/4 should be close. But if you are looking for just raw power you cant go wrong with the Rockford. the E6450 series is there entry level series and really arent built that well.

[rivercrazy]

THD is factor also. and noone runs there systems completely flat. wattage is a measure of power. sound quality is affected by Distortion leves (THD)
THD is a meaningless measurement in car audio. The human ear cannot detect THD ratings of just about every amp manufacturer out there. Like I said, if you take brand A and compare it to brand B of equal power, you won't be able to tell the difference in SQ.
Or maybe you should contact Richard Clark and sign up for his amp challenge.

[ROZ]

What RC is saying is that 1 clean watt is 1 clean watt no matter what amp it comes from... The rest is all features add on modules, etc...

[riverbound]

THD is a meaningless measurement in car audio. The human ear cannot detect THD ratings of just about every amp manufacturer out there. Like I said, if you take brand A and compare it to brand B of equal power, you won't be able to tell the difference in SQ.
Or maybe you should contact Richard Clark and sign up for his amp challenge.
Okay...you are right... The sony amps do sound just like the JL amps it really is just s ploy to get you to spend more money. But If you go to Pepboys and buy the Kraco amp thats on clearance it will also sound just like the JL ;)

[riverbound]

What RC is saying is that 1 clean watt is 1 clean watt no matter what amp it comes from... The rest is all features add on modules, etc...
Yes but the operative word is CLEAN watt. :rollside:

[Outnumbered]

the 450/4 should be close. But if you are looking for just raw power you cant go wrong with the Rockford. the E6450 series is there entry level series and really arent built that well.
Thanks

[rivercrazy]

Riverbound - Care to make a quick $10 grand? Take the amp challenge!
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18815

[1stepcloser]

What color are the amps...those model #'s are for the older waffle iron amps. The NEW power series amps are smooth and a really dark charcoal color and the model # starts with a T.
So, unless I have new amps, it dont count?
Look, I like the product, but the fact is the damn things get hotter than hell under load, and they have done so since they first started making them.
I bought my first "Power" series amp back around 1987 or 88, it was a "Power 600" that was somewhat modified for competition. That was the first RF amp to come with an internal fan. The housing was a stamped steel cover that effectively routed the air across the board and through a top vent at one end cooling the sinks.
It worked pretty well, (the cooling, the amp was awesome:)) but guess what? Thermal shutdown. Did I mention that was 1987?
Like I said, I like the products, I've had a number of different version over the years, and I like the performance of the current pair I run now.
I know you used to peddle them for the store, and you have installed them in probably dozens or more boats with all happy customers, However.... I can tell you, and MBrown will agree, the damn things get hot, and will shut down with extended play under heavy use.
Oh, and to answer your question... they are gray, they are the waffle iron style, (and could probably cook a waffle LOL) and are from the year 2002.

[BoatFloating]

Oh, and to answer your question... they are gray, they are the waffle iron style, (and could probably cook a waffle LOL) and are from the year 2002.
Don't forget the bacon.... The RF's are dual use amps..... :cool:

[mbrown2]

Don't forget the bacon.... The RF's are dual use amps..... :cool:
They cook better then my stainless BBQ.....who needs a pontoon with BBQ...just get a couple power series...hopefully the new ones work better, but I don't like the idea that to work like their competition; you have to buy newer....again, good amps, but you need to keep them cool... ;)

[Havasu Hangin']

Yes but the operative word is CLEAN watt. :rollside:
riverbound- I think you are missing the point. RC (and Roz) are saying that if you have two amps that put out the same wattage at a given level, the speaker will sound the same.
The difference between 1,000 Kraco watts and 1,000 JL watts is that the JL amp will actually put out the 1,000 watts, which is where the quality comes into play.
Food for thought- will a Kraco amp putting out 5 watts sound the same as a JL amp putting out 5 watts? I'd say yes.
Richard Clark from Car Sound has had a $10,000 "amp challenge" for a few years now. Basically, it says that with two amps putting out the same power through the same speaker will be indistinguishable. No one has collected the money, but many have tried (including manufacturers).
I know it goes against all the manufacturer's marketing hype that says "our amps sound better (and stereo shops just seem to echo it because that's what they sell, and don't know any better)...but it is something to consider.
Just my "internet (journeyman) wire jockey" opinion.

[BoatFloating]

riverbound- I think you are missing the point. RC (and Roz) are saying that if you have two amps that put out the same wattage at a given level, the speaker will sound the same.
The difference between 1,000 Kraco watts and 1,000 JL watts is that the JL amp will actually put out the 1,000 watts, which is where the quality comes into play.
Food for thought- will a Kraco amp putting out 5 watts sound the same as a JL amp putting out 5 watts? I'd say yes.
Richard Clark from Car Sound has had a $10,000 "amp challenge" for a few years now. Basically, it says that with two amps putting out the same power through the same speaker will be indistinguishable. No one has collected the money, but many have tried (including manufacturers).
I know it goes against all the manufacturer's marketing hype that says "our amps sound better (and stereo shops just seem to echo it because that's what they sell, and don't know any better)...but it is something to consider.
Just my "internet (journeyman) wire jockey" opinion.
I love it when ole' HH gets all technical.... :boxed:

[onthegoaudio]

switch to zapco and see what the next level in amplifiers is like

[ROZ]

switch to zapco and see what the next level in amplifiers is like
Then switch to Audison when you stop playing games :D

[cdog]

I've got a RF BD 1000 running my 2 new JL W6 12's and the stereo shop told me that I really need a JL 1000 to power them right. The Jl amp is twice the size. There must be something there. :idea:

[1stepcloser]

Then switch to Audison when you stop playing games :D
;) http://www2.***boat.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

[Tom Brown]

Fosgate is really popular in Canada. They are great at keeping our back windows clear of frost in the winter. :cool:

[Partycattin]

I would try the fan setup first. Problably cost less than 40 bucks to install.
A new amp on the other hand is going to set you back a few hundred. If the fan doesn't work, sell the Fosgate on E-bay and buy a JL. The fan will still help.
I have to JL 300/4 and also run them til the batteries die.
**How do you like the 500/1? I was thinking of adding one to run a 10" Jl sub.

[Outnumbered]

I would try the fan setup first. Problably cost less than 40 bucks to install.
A new amp on the other hand is going to set you back a few hundred. If the fan doesn't work, sell the Fosgate on E-bay and buy a JL. The fan will still help.
I have to JL 300/4 and also run them til the batteries die.
**How do you like the 500/1? I was thinking of adding one to run a 10" Jl sub.
The JL 500/1 is running 3 JL 10s or 12s in my boat. It kicks ass and never gets too hot to touch. It is mounted in the same way the RF is. I am not sure of the ohms on the JL subs, they were there when I bought the boat and you cannot see them without taking the box out.

[BADASS38CHEVY]

Im running 3 300/1 to 12 mb quart pce 216 6.5 and 2 1000/1 to 4 13.5 w6s and let me tell you,this system is insane.The best system I have ever heard.This thing hits hard ,fells like the boat is going to fall apart.Jl is the shit. http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/showphoto.php?photo=86939&size=big&password=&sort=7&thecat=500, http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/showphoto.php?photo=86940&size=big&password=&sort=7&thecat=500 http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/showphoto.php?photo=86937&size=big&password=&sort=7&thecat=500

[ROZ]

I bet it sounds incredible.... Looks like your planning definitely paid off :)

[BADASS38CHEVY]

I bet it sounds incredible.... Looks like your planning definitely paid off :)
Thanks to everybody here on the audio board for there help on helping me design my system right the first time around. You guys are awesome and made this system bump hard.